mreinman wrote:I would like Amare to retire a knick

I hope he retires soon

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

sidsanders wrote:i

mreinman wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Splat wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Splat wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Melo is not going anywhere. Phil is going to attempt to retool around him the same way the Celtics did with Pierce when he was 30 years old. They will use their draft pick to net an all-star via trade (unless Phil falls in love with a player in the draft) and then sell a free agent on the ability to join melo and that player in turning the franchise around. We should have 2 all-star talents next to Melo by next year, otherwise Phil has not done his job. From there he will need to add the necessary role players to fill every other role. But you can't trade Melo when you finally have a free agent period to add the right talent around him, especially when it is likely we will have a top 5 pick anyways. Trading Melo won't alter our draft position, so why bother? And without control of our pick the following season, there is zero upside in doing so.

Fat chance

Obviously it will be challenging, but this has to be the goal at this point if all goes well.

Doesn't have to be if you have the guts to assess the direction you're going in and change the game plan. It is not too late to commit to a full rebuild if you can find a trading partner for Melo.

Melo is going to be a hobbling mess. Rebuilding around him is just a complete and utter joke in the making. The most courageous thing Phil could do is realize he fukked up and unload Melo while he still has some value. Dolan can eat another few ten million dollar losses.

is his contract tradeable?

That's the big question. I don't think so, but I'd like to see them try.

do you mean would anyone want to take on his contract or would he waive his no trade clause at all?

who would/could take on his salbatross let alone give up non sh1t for it?

is his health going to become a long term prob and would he like the destination to waive the NT clause. no help in any trade scenario. phil had to know this was gonna be rough

Why is it always assumed that he is going to have some lingering injury issues? He has a few injuries here and there, but its the ny media that draws extra attention to it. He is by most accounts a durable player who's body type and style of play should age relatively well into his 30s. Yet when this team underperforms or Melo sits because of soreness, he is deemed an injury risk moving forward, or my personal favorite "he is breaking down physically." It's too bad he is not immune to injury and soreness, that's the only way this type of talk will stop i guess.

I would worry about any 30+ player who is signed for 5 more years and is not in ripped shape

And his style is quite physical.

He doesn't rely on athletic ability though. He's style is mostly below the rim. And if we actually add talent alongside him he won't have to constantly work like this for shots. His game will come easy in the triangle and mostly be spot up shooting and mid range pullups. He should be extremely productive as long as he isn't playing like he has the past few years.

Very true...but he needs to buy in to the system.

Bonn1997 wrote:

GoNyGoNyGo wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

sidsanders wrote:i

mreinman wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Splat wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Splat wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Melo is not going anywhere. Phil is going to attempt to retool around him the same way the Celtics did with Pierce when he was 30 years old. They will use their draft pick to net an all-star via trade (unless Phil falls in love with a player in the draft) and then sell a free agent on the ability to join melo and that player in turning the franchise around. We should have 2 all-star talents next to Melo by next year, otherwise Phil has not done his job. From there he will need to add the necessary role players to fill every other role. But you can't trade Melo when you finally have a free agent period to add the right talent around him, especially when it is likely we will have a top 5 pick anyways. Trading Melo won't alter our draft position, so why bother? And without control of our pick the following season, there is zero upside in doing so.

Fat chance

Obviously it will be challenging, but this has to be the goal at this point if all goes well.

Doesn't have to be if you have the guts to assess the direction you're going in and change the game plan. It is not too late to commit to a full rebuild if you can find a trading partner for Melo.

Melo is going to be a hobbling mess. Rebuilding around him is just a complete and utter joke in the making. The most courageous thing Phil could do is realize he fukked up and unload Melo while he still has some value. Dolan can eat another few ten million dollar losses.

is his contract tradeable?

That's the big question. I don't think so, but I'd like to see them try.

do you mean would anyone want to take on his contract or would he waive his no trade clause at all?

who would/could take on his salbatross let alone give up non sh1t for it?

is his health going to become a long term prob and would he like the destination to waive the NT clause. no help in any trade scenario. phil had to know this was gonna be rough

Why is it always assumed that he is going to have some lingering injury issues? He has a few injuries here and there, but its the ny media that draws extra attention to it. He is by most accounts a durable player who's body type and style of play should age relatively well into his 30s. Yet when this team underperforms or Melo sits because of soreness, he is deemed an injury risk moving forward, or my personal favorite "he is breaking down physically." It's too bad he is not immune to injury and soreness, that's the only way this type of talk will stop i guess.

I would worry about any 30+ player who is signed for 5 more years and is not in ripped shape

And his style is quite physical.

He doesn't rely on athletic ability though. He's style is mostly below the rim. And if we actually add talent alongside him he won't have to constantly work like this for shots. His game will come easy in the triangle and mostly be spot up shooting and mid range pullups. He should be extremely productive as long as he isn't playing like he has the past few years.

Very true...but he needs to buy in to the system.

There's no such thing as an NBA athlete that doesn't rely on athletic ability.
Did you see the thread on the adjusted defensive plus/minus stats that had Melo in last place out of 78 forwards? Athleticism is involved in everything they do on the court, not just flying above the rim.

Yes, however certain type of athletes age better than others. When i make that statement above, you know exactly what i mean by it.

SwishAndDish13 wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:http://www.nytimes.com/2014/12/12/sports/basketball/carmelo-anthony-knicks-rebuild-might-be-better-off-as-a-tear-down.html?partner=rssnyt&emc=rss&_r=0

Guy is probably just bitter that he bought into Phil's jedi mind tricks in the offseason.

he never did that but pretty sure you did.

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:knx, do you not see how many passes melo misses???

When he passes, nothing good happens haha. I want to see good ball movement as much as the next guy, but who do you want him to pass to? I have been watching for 2 years him go thru stretches of making the right passes and guys just miss shots. That was a main reason i was excited to get Calderon, we need guys who can shoot.

this is the biggest bull sh1t excuse and is really getting old.

when pablo prigioni is wide open because his man left him to double melo knowing that melo will of course refuse to pass, and priggy is waving his hands in desperation while melo would rather shoot his 1 on 2 stupid long contested 2 while pablo is leading the league in 3 point efficiency and korver type level ... etc

no more excuses.

you pass to the open man. if he can't hit his shots then its on the coach to remove him.

Melo's teammates would shoot better if their idiot star had some confidence in them. instead let him go be some chump up in the locker room.

Trust me ... nobody has studied melo and his passing more than me.

Yes, and even on a squad that is not full of good shooters, good ball movement always produces greater efficiencies. I don't know why the excuse that Melo doesn't pass because he doesn't trust his teammates is used as an excuse so often. It is really obnoxious and ignorant to cling to that argument IMO, but to this day it is invoked all the time.

Sorry, i just don't see it with this group. We saw him play that type of basketball in 2012-2013 when guys were making shots. Believe it or not, he was part of that great ball movement. But you can't expect the same with this group. It's just not there.

Look at the shooting percentages. Melo's shooting .456 and the team is at .453. Yet people are saying when the teammates shoot the ball, nothing good happens. What does that mean then when Melo shoots the ball?!

To wit: When Anthony is off the floor, the Knicks are scoring just 91.9 points per 100 possessions, which equates to the worst offensive rating in NBA history.

Got a link if u need it...

holfresh wrote:
To wit: When Anthony is off the floor, the Knicks are scoring just 91.9 points per 100 possessions, which equates to the worst offensive rating in NBA history.

Got a link if u need it...

And when Anthony is on the floor, the Knicks are 4-20.

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:knx, do you not see how many passes melo misses???

When he passes, nothing good happens haha. I want to see good ball movement as much as the next guy, but who do you want him to pass to? I have been watching for 2 years him go thru stretches of making the right passes and guys just miss shots. That was a main reason i was excited to get Calderon, we need guys who can shoot.

this is the biggest bull sh1t excuse and is really getting old.

when pablo prigioni is wide open because his man left him to double melo knowing that melo will of course refuse to pass, and priggy is waving his hands in desperation while melo would rather shoot his 1 on 2 stupid long contested 2 while pablo is leading the league in 3 point efficiency and korver type level ... etc

no more excuses.

you pass to the open man. if he can't hit his shots then its on the coach to remove him.

Melo's teammates would shoot better if their idiot star had some confidence in them. instead let him go be some chump up in the locker room.

Trust me ... nobody has studied melo and his passing more than me.

Yes, and even on a squad that is not full of good shooters, good ball movement always produces greater efficiencies. I don't know why the excuse that Melo doesn't pass because he doesn't trust his teammates is used as an excuse so often. It is really obnoxious and ignorant to cling to that argument IMO, but to this day it is invoked all the time.

Sorry, i just don't see it with this group. We saw him play that type of basketball in 2012-2013 when guys were making shots. Believe it or not, he was part of that great ball movement. But you can't expect the same with this group. It's just not there.

Look at the shooting percentages. Melo's shooting .456 and the team is at .453. Yet people are saying when the teammates shoot the ball, nothing good happens. What does that mean then when Melo shoots the ball?!

To wit: When Anthony is off the floor, the Knicks are scoring just 91.9 points per 100 possessions, which equates to the worst offensive rating in NBA history.

Got a link if u need it...

That doesn't contradict what I said and does not indicate he shouldn't be making better passes.

Might indicate we need better shooter/players/scorers..

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

sidsanders wrote:i

mreinman wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Splat wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Splat wrote:

Knixkik wrote:Melo is not going anywhere. Phil is going to attempt to retool around him the same way the Celtics did with Pierce when he was 30 years old. They will use their draft pick to net an all-star via trade (unless Phil falls in love with a player in the draft) and then sell a free agent on the ability to join melo and that player in turning the franchise around. We should have 2 all-star talents next to Melo by next year, otherwise Phil has not done his job. From there he will need to add the necessary role players to fill every other role. But you can't trade Melo when you finally have a free agent period to add the right talent around him, especially when it is likely we will have a top 5 pick anyways. Trading Melo won't alter our draft position, so why bother? And without control of our pick the following season, there is zero upside in doing so.

Fat chance

Obviously it will be challenging, but this has to be the goal at this point if all goes well.

Doesn't have to be if you have the guts to assess the direction you're going in and change the game plan. It is not too late to commit to a full rebuild if you can find a trading partner for Melo.

Melo is going to be a hobbling mess. Rebuilding around him is just a complete and utter joke in the making. The most courageous thing Phil could do is realize he fukked up and unload Melo while he still has some value. Dolan can eat another few ten million dollar losses.

is his contract tradeable?

That's the big question. I don't think so, but I'd like to see them try.

do you mean would anyone want to take on his contract or would he waive his no trade clause at all?

who would/could take on his salbatross let alone give up non sh1t for it?

is his health going to become a long term prob and would he like the destination to waive the NT clause. no help in any trade scenario. phil had to know this was gonna be rough

Why is it always assumed that he is going to have some lingering injury issues? He has a few injuries here and there, but its the ny media that draws extra attention to it. He is by most accounts a durable player who's body type and style of play should age relatively well into his 30s. Yet when this team underperforms or Melo sits because of soreness, he is deemed an injury risk moving forward, or my personal favorite "he is breaking down physically." It's too bad he is not immune to injury and soreness, that's the only way this type of talk will stop i guess.

I would worry about any 30+ player who is signed for 5 more years and is not in ripped shape

And his style is quite physical.

He doesn't rely on athletic ability though. He's style is mostly below the rim. And if we actually add talent alongside him he won't have to constantly work like this for shots. His game will come easy in the triangle and mostly be spot up shooting and mid range pullups. He should be extremely productive as long as he isn't playing like he has the past few years.

bully ball is what gets him in trouble-- his footwork and ball-handling is poor so he relies on initiating physical contact which has caused shoulder issues and now his left (plant) knee and back too. he has a ton of wear and tear that has reached critical mass and just in time for an astronomical payday.

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:knx, do you not see how many passes melo misses???

When he passes, nothing good happens haha. I want to see good ball movement as much as the next guy, but who do you want him to pass to? I have been watching for 2 years him go thru stretches of making the right passes and guys just miss shots. That was a main reason i was excited to get Calderon, we need guys who can shoot.

this is the biggest bull sh1t excuse and is really getting old.

when pablo prigioni is wide open because his man left him to double melo knowing that melo will of course refuse to pass, and priggy is waving his hands in desperation while melo would rather shoot his 1 on 2 stupid long contested 2 while pablo is leading the league in 3 point efficiency and korver type level ... etc

no more excuses.

you pass to the open man. if he can't hit his shots then its on the coach to remove him.

Melo's teammates would shoot better if their idiot star had some confidence in them. instead let him go be some chump up in the locker room.

Trust me ... nobody has studied melo and his passing more than me.

so you have finally reached the breaking point. it didn't need to take this long but whatever.

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:knx, do you not see how many passes melo misses???

When he passes, nothing good happens haha. I want to see good ball movement as much as the next guy, but who do you want him to pass to? I have been watching for 2 years him go thru stretches of making the right passes and guys just miss shots. That was a main reason i was excited to get Calderon, we need guys who can shoot.

this is the biggest bull sh1t excuse and is really getting old.

when pablo prigioni is wide open because his man left him to double melo knowing that melo will of course refuse to pass, and priggy is waving his hands in desperation while melo would rather shoot his 1 on 2 stupid long contested 2 while pablo is leading the league in 3 point efficiency and korver type level ... etc

no more excuses.

you pass to the open man. if he can't hit his shots then its on the coach to remove him.

Melo's teammates would shoot better if their idiot star had some confidence in them. instead let him go be some chump up in the locker room.

Trust me ... nobody has studied melo and his passing more than me.

so you have finally reached the breaking point. it didn't need to take this long but whatever.

kind of but as soon as he starts passing and being less selfish I will be happy to jump right back on the wagon.

No personal hate

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Splat wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

mreinman wrote:knx, do you not see how many passes melo misses???

When he passes, nothing good happens haha. I want to see good ball movement as much as the next guy, but who do you want him to pass to? I have been watching for 2 years him go thru stretches of making the right passes and guys just miss shots. That was a main reason i was excited to get Calderon, we need guys who can shoot.

this is the biggest bull sh1t excuse and is really getting old.

when pablo prigioni is wide open because his man left him to double melo knowing that melo will of course refuse to pass, and priggy is waving his hands in desperation while melo would rather shoot his 1 on 2 stupid long contested 2 while pablo is leading the league in 3 point efficiency and korver type level ... etc

no more excuses.

you pass to the open man. if he can't hit his shots then its on the coach to remove him.

Melo's teammates would shoot better if their idiot star had some confidence in them. instead let him go be some chump up in the locker room.

Trust me ... nobody has studied melo and his passing more than me.

Yes, and even on a squad that is not full of good shooters, good ball movement always produces greater efficiencies. I don't know why the excuse that Melo doesn't pass because he doesn't trust his teammates is used as an excuse so often. It is really obnoxious and ignorant to cling to that argument IMO, but to this day it is invoked all the time.

Sorry, i just don't see it with this group. We saw him play that type of basketball in 2012-2013 when guys were making shots. Believe it or not, he was part of that great ball movement. But you can't expect the same with this group. It's just not there.

Look at the shooting percentages. Melo's shooting .456 and the team is at .453. Yet people are saying when the teammates shoot the ball, nothing good happens. What does that mean then when Melo shoots the ball?!

You can find a stat that tells just about anything you want it to. I am just pointing out what i see.

stop telling us what you see and show those easy to find stats that support your argument.

holfresh just did that. Besides that, anything i bring up you guys will discredit for one reason or another because you mind has been made up about Melo, which is fine.