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CONGRADS TO FISHER
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BasketballJones
Posts: 31973
Alba Posts: 19
Joined: 7/16/2002
Member: #290
USA
12/5/2014  1:45 PM
Nalod wrote:If you goal is to rebuild and you have your draft pick, which in the last 20 years is not a common event, Having the worst record in franchise history is a good thing.

Another fan wants the coach fired. In ten years we have had 8 coaches

Chaney
Herb
Lenny
Larry
Isiah
MDA
Woodson
Fish

After 20 games we should fire the rookie coach?
Phil, the guy who has more rings than anyone is the guy that tabbed him. I'd give him some time.

Support the team by not being stupid. Not much to ask for.

I agree that we should have just kept Chaney for all those years.

https:// It's not so hard.
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Bonn1997
Posts: 58654
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Joined: 2/2/2004
Member: #581
USA
12/5/2014  3:47 PM
Vmart wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Vmart wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
H1AND1 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Vmart wrote:I want to thank Fisher for doing what MDA,Woodson and others before him should have done. Give the Knicks a chance for a franchise player through the draft. It bothers me to see my fellow NYK fans not understanding what is at stake here. While having the worst record does not guarantee a top pick it does give you an opportunity to get at least the 4th pick. This season is about roster and what it will be in the future.

I watch the games I see the moves. I see where it is going and I am happy as a dog right now. I have Fisher to thank for that. There are going to be fans that want the empty meaningless wins. They are going to pressure Fisher to win some useless games and ruin chances to better themselves. That is why I would suggest everyone to sit back and relax. There are really good things happening with the Knicks.


But the problem is that the same people who put together this .250 roster will be making the draft pick. What would you rather have: A really bad decision made with the 4th pick or a great decision made with the 12th pick? I'm not saying those are the certain options but too many people are treating it like it's automatically wonderful if we get a top pick.

Wouldnt you think that your chances are higher of getting an impact player choosing in the top 3 or 4 than choosing at say 10 or 12, no matter who it is making the pick? Even picking at random Id think you would have a better shot in the top 4 than at 10 or 12. Maybe im wrong.


Sure, all else being equal, higher picks are better. "All else being equal" already contradicts my question, though. I'd much rather bring in someone with a great eyeball assessment and masterful understanding of the advanced metrics and have him drafting at 12 and responsible for all future decisions than have what we have now though.

Who understands advanced metrics better than the man with 13 rings. He has seen it all and you don't win in the NBA with out a top notch talent on your team.


He understands how to coach great rosters - no doubt. That has nothing to do with advanced metrics. A lot of those rings were from before these metrics were even developed actually!

I'm sorry Bonn but you sound very uninformed. Name a coach who doesn't win with a good roster. A coach has to know what his best team is and know what works and what doesn't. Metrics are not the be all in this league. A lot if it has to do with system and how a player is implemented in the system. Metrics don't always come into play. I think you guys with Metric are over thinking basketball. How much Metrics is Popovich doing most of his players came before implementation of metrics. How much Metrics did Pat Riley do?


You misread me. I said he won with great rosters, not that he won only because of great rosters.
None of it says much about being a GM though. If you wanted to make an argument against metrics, that's another story. In that case, I probably just wouldn't have responded because I've done those arguments enough times. (You said the rings indicated he understood the advanced metrics very well.) It's nothing against you personally but I've gone through those debates a lot of times already.
blkexec
Posts: 28347
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Joined: 9/3/2004
Member: #748
12/5/2014  4:00 PM
smackeddog wrote:Brilliant- as we all know people never improve in their jobs or learn anything after the first 2 months- we all peak 2 months into any job (particularly when it's the first time we've done that sort of job).

Remind me, how did Jason Kidd look 20 games into last season with a superior roster? How does he look now? How can this be?! Someone getting better the longer they do their job?!

On top of a crap roster, he had no Calderone for the first month, and then an injured Melo once Calderon came back. But hey, let's just ignore all that and pretend it's all fishers fault.


Knick fans with their patience and understanding of the bigger picture- channeling their inner Dolan

You just summed up why this franchise has the best and worst fans ever. Whats the average of great fans and worst fans? Mediocrity!
I think Knick fans are addicted to b!tching about their team. It's now a natural thing. 50% hates the team.....50% loves the team. This franchise will never improve until Dolan and dumb fans leave.

Fan#1 - I hate losing....This is the mecca. We should never lose games like this. Make a trade, do something now. I can't take it.
Fan#2 - We need to tank. We need to lose every game and stock up on some high draft picks.

I think the losing is making knick fans insane. We are really losing it. And as the mecca of basketball, the media takes everything we say and blow it up, which puts more pressure on Dolan to do something quick....pressure on melo and amari to tear another ligament. It's crazy, but it's entertainment...Which is why Dolan continues to get rich! Regardless if we lose or win.....

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
Knicks1969
Posts: 25394
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Joined: 11/7/2014
Member: #5915

12/5/2014  4:09 PM
blkexec wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Brilliant- as we all know people never improve in their jobs or learn anything after the first 2 months- we all peak 2 months into any job (particularly when it's the first time we've done that sort of job).

Remind me, how did Jason Kidd look 20 games into last season with a superior roster? How does he look now? How can this be?! Someone getting better the longer they do their job?!

On top of a crap roster, he had no Calderone for the first month, and then an injured Melo once Calderon came back. But hey, let's just ignore all that and pretend it's all fishers fault.


Knick fans with their patience and understanding of the bigger picture- channeling their inner Dolan

You just summed up why this franchise has the best and worst fans ever. Whats the average of great fans and worst fans? Mediocrity!
I think Knick fans are addicted to b!tching about their team. It's now a natural thing. 50% hates the team.....50% loves the team. This franchise will never improve until Dolan and dumb fans leave.

Fan#1 - I hate losing....This is the mecca. We should never lose games like this. Make a trade, do something now. I can't take it.
Fan#2 - We need to tank. We need to lose every game and stock up on some high draft picks.

I think the losing is making knick fans insane. We are really losing it. And as the mecca of basketball, the media takes everything we say and blow it up, which puts more pressure on Dolan to do something quick....pressure on melo and amari to tear another ligament. It's crazy, but it's entertainment...Which is why Dolan continues to get rich! Regardless if we lose or win.....

Knicks fans are better then that dude. We want: effort, signature Knicks defense, flashy plays, smart players. We are sick and tired if one trick ponies like we've see. The last 15+ years. We want to see our franchise attrActs players like the: grandmama, Starks, exavier mcdaniels, oak, etc. blue collar players who can play the game. That is what we yearn for man

Thank God Fisher is no longer our coach, now let's get Calderon out of here:)
blkexec
Posts: 28347
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Joined: 9/3/2004
Member: #748
12/5/2014  4:31 PM
Knicks1969 wrote:
blkexec wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Brilliant- as we all know people never improve in their jobs or learn anything after the first 2 months- we all peak 2 months into any job (particularly when it's the first time we've done that sort of job).

Remind me, how did Jason Kidd look 20 games into last season with a superior roster? How does he look now? How can this be?! Someone getting better the longer they do their job?!

On top of a crap roster, he had no Calderone for the first month, and then an injured Melo once Calderon came back. But hey, let's just ignore all that and pretend it's all fishers fault.


Knick fans with their patience and understanding of the bigger picture- channeling their inner Dolan

You just summed up why this franchise has the best and worst fans ever. Whats the average of great fans and worst fans? Mediocrity!
I think Knick fans are addicted to b!tching about their team. It's now a natural thing. 50% hates the team.....50% loves the team. This franchise will never improve until Dolan and dumb fans leave.

Fan#1 - I hate losing....This is the mecca. We should never lose games like this. Make a trade, do something now. I can't take it.
Fan#2 - We need to tank. We need to lose every game and stock up on some high draft picks.

I think the losing is making knick fans insane. We are really losing it. And as the mecca of basketball, the media takes everything we say and blow it up, which puts more pressure on Dolan to do something quick....pressure on melo and amari to tear another ligament. It's crazy, but it's entertainment...Which is why Dolan continues to get rich! Regardless if we lose or win.....

Knicks fans are better then that dude. We want: effort, signature Knicks defense, flashy plays, smart players. We are sick and tired if one trick ponies like we've see. The last 15+ years. We want to see our franchise attrActs players like the: grandmama, Starks, exavier mcdaniels, oak, etc. blue collar players who can play the game. That is what we yearn for man

I hear you....Unfortunately, as much as I love those guys, they don't bring Dolan enough cash to justify his high ticket sales. The problem with having a high profile team is sometimes you are your worst enemy. Dolan wants to win, but he also wants to make money. He's juggling between ticket sales and wins. His best case scenario is to have high profile players, coaches and GMs, while winning. Unfortunately, the winning hasn't caught up with the high price staff and players. It doesn't matter if Melo or Stat are not top dollar players. It doesn't matter if Fisher or Phil doesn't deserve top dollar, especially when both of them are rookies at their position.

The reason why Dollan continues to make money, is because he uses his money to increase the value of players and staff that works for him, buy out bidding himself. It's a great plan, because it attracts the media, and hopefully attracts better players. While increasing expectations. Which is why season ticket holders pay top dollar. Which is why players are paid millions, for expectations....not talent. The NBA used to be about talent, back when players were making engineering money. Now that the NBA is a multi billion dollar industry, it's about expectations and less about talent.

Other organizations are the opposite. But it's a different ball game in places like texas, where basketball is not even their top sport. They can afford to lose, without losing money or fans. Dolan is afraid of losing money! Hiring Phil Jackson is probably his best move. Phil will do whatever he can to keep his legacy going. Even if it takes 5 years. Once he leaves, I guarantee you we will be a top team in the east. And it will be a win win for both him and Dolan....Thats the life of a knick fan! While Dolan is in charge.

Born in Brooklyn, Raised in Queens, Lives in Maryland. The future is bright, I'm a Knicks fan for life!
CONGRADS TO FISHER

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