Splat wrote:If Tim didn't have his occasional scoring spurts, no one would even be talking about him as a player with potential. He has some athleticism, but how does he leverage it?

Has anyone ever said Tim is good at anything other than a jumper and finishing on a fast break and a now very occasional drive to the rim?

If he has not shown a glimmer of ability in any other aspect of the game so far, why is he even considered to be more than just another random bench gunner? You can rent these every off-season.

It is looking like yet another Knicks devaluation of assets. Once upon time, he would have netted us something worth trading for. Now we would get next to nothing. We really know how to manage our teams and build our assets.

Agree.....

F500ONE wrote:

Splat wrote:Though I will say once it becomes conclusive we are not making the playoffs there will be little argument against giving him minutes. Might as well max his trade value at the very least and figure out a way to mask his deficiencies while trumping his strengths. Pump us his numbers, then trade him or build him into a decent 6th man at least. Unless he is a real dik behind the scenes, he should be tutored at least. No point in wasting any potential asset now.

Here's what ticks me off Splat

Yes it's a current wasted asset but what fans have done

Is fixated themselves on Shumpert because

He's the asset most readily available to be lost

And should he be lost while THJR remains through the fire

Guess what script gets transferred next yr by these same fans

They will borrow next season as THJR's redemption

It's rather mindless and an insult to conceptual intelligence

I'm done with Shump because I think he's been afforded enough time

To prove his value, in regards to THJR I feel this is his possible last yr

To do likewise and if he doesn't MAN up no feelings lost in his exodus

I'm looking for some clarity who may be here as we rebuild

No more flip-flopping on guys until we can no longer come back up for air

To be even-handed about it, you're just as fixated on Shumpert as anyone posting, just with your own emphasis.

I don't care either way TBH. I said earlier I'd give Shump this season to show consistency. Right now, he is falling off the wagon train. He was good earlier and provided some grit and focus during early games.

But what happens when a team devolves into clusterfuk mode, you often lose many players in the process. Focus, effort, intelligence all degrade rapidly which is what we are on the verge of seeing happen. Shump will go down with the ship too. He is not an X Factor player, never will be. All I wanted was consistency and competency from one of our ONLY potential 2-way players.

At this point, it looks like a rout. Gutting the fish may be in order. We may see very few of these guys next year.

As far as Tim goes, relax, he'll end up playing by default is my guess. Wait for a week or two after Dec. 15th and see if the mix changes. The agenda probably was to inflate Stat and JR first. Stat is performing in his way and it may help get him out of here. JR laid eggs, so we may be stuck with the bugger.

In full clusterfuk mode, Tim will probably play more if he is not already traded. You're in overdrive on Shump. We get it. You're closer to right than wrong. It is just some wanted to give him this season to get conclusive. You've already made up your mind. I have little vested in the result, but I don't think he will be worth a great deal on the open market so it is not a big deal either way now. He's a bench player. That's all.

Splat wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

Splat wrote:Though I will say once it becomes conclusive we are not making the playoffs there will be little argument against giving him minutes. Might as well max his trade value at the very least and figure out a way to mask his deficiencies while trumping his strengths. Pump us his numbers, then trade him or build him into a decent 6th man at least. Unless he is a real dik behind the scenes, he should be tutored at least. No point in wasting any potential asset now.

Here's what ticks me off Splat

Yes it's a current wasted asset but what fans have done

Is fixated themselves on Shumpert because

He's the asset most readily available to be lost

And should he be lost while THJR remains through the fire

Guess what script gets transferred next yr by these same fans

They will borrow next season as THJR's redemption

It's rather mindless and an insult to conceptual intelligence

I'm done with Shump because I think he's been afforded enough time

To prove his value, in regards to THJR I feel this is his possible last yr

To do likewise and if he doesn't MAN up no feelings lost in his exodus

I'm looking for some clarity who may be here as we rebuild

No more flip-flopping on guys until we can no longer come back up for air

To be even-handed about it, you're just as fixated on Shumpert as anyone posting, just with your own emphasis.

I don't care either way TBH. I said earlier I'd give Shump this season to show consistency. Right now, he is falling off the wagon train. He was good earlier and provided some grit and focus during early games.

But what happens when a team devolves into clusterfuk mode, you often lose many players in the process. Focus, effort, intelligence all degrade rapidly which is what we are on the verge of seeing happen. Shump will go down with the ship too. He is not an X Factor player, never will be. All I wanted was consistency and competency from one of our ONLY potential 2-way players.

At this point, it looks like a rout. Gutting the fish may be in order. We may see very few of these guys next year.

As far as Tim goes, relax, he'll end up playing by default is my guess. Wait for a week or two after Dec. 15th and see if the mix changes. The agenda probably was to inflate Stat and JR first. Stat is performing in his way and it may help get him out of here. JR laid eggs, so we may be stuck with the bugger.

In full clusterfuk mode, Tim will probably play more if he is not already traded. You're in overdrive on Shump. We get it. You're closer to right than wrong. It is just some wanted to give him this season to get conclusive. You've already made up your mind. I have little vested in the result, but I don't think he will be worth a great deal on the open market so it is not a big deal either way now. He's a bench player. That's all.

I think all our guards with exception to THJR

Are absolute known quantities, Shumpert just happens to be the one

Who could be partially in the way of proper development, because he's received a ton of minutes

Before the season started I said Fisher would have an almost impossible challenge

Finding minutes for Shump/Earl/THJR

Except in his case he's been too extreme

With Calderon out and Shump's semi ability to play point

In this system gave Fisher an out to play guys more, but he didn't

I understand we have certain means to an end with each of them

But this shouldn't have resulted to this point in depreciating all our guards

In the end and overall I wanted to see as much as

Early/Wear/THJR as possible, we all know this is a lost season

I wouldn't have a problem retaining Shump for another yr

If it makes sense but I don't need to see 30min of him in a game anymore

And conversely had THJR been handed the keys from jump and produced

In a similar fashion I wouldn't want to see 30min more from him

Knicks1969 wrote:I want these dudes (THJ and Shump) to succeed right here in NY. They were drafted by us; we are accountable for their development. It does not look good for the Knicks when a young kid goes elsewhere to develop and shine. Shump has been given ample amount of time to develop, but the same can't be said for THJ

we gotta start selling high and not waiting for our ****ty picks to plummet.

if phish judge that he is not that great ... ship em fast

we gotta stop the youth attachments and just build a good team. I love when our kids play well but how about if we sold shump last year? Or THJ (for Lowry)? Now they are not worth much.

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:I want these dudes (THJ and Shump) to succeed right here in NY. They were drafted by us; we are accountable for their development. It does not look good for the Knicks when a young kid goes elsewhere to develop and shine. Shump has been given ample amount of time to develop, but the same can't be said for THJ

we gotta start selling high and not waiting for our ****ty picks to plummet.

if phish judge that he is not that great ... ship em fast

we gotta stop the youth attachments and just build a good team. I love when our kids play well but how about if we sold shump last year? Or THJ (for Lowry)? Now they are not worth much.

Agreed and I felt this way when we had

Gallo Chandler and other youngans

We don't have to keep our youth if they aren't

Clearly distinguishing themselves as better talents

Within their tier level, would Toronto truly be

Better off with Felton and Shumpert or THJR instead of Lowry

Highly doubtful, would OKC be anymore a lock to win it all

With Shumpert, highly doubful

Meanwhile we'd be a better team with a point guard the caliber of Lowry

And or possibly a draft pick from this past summer draft in the fold

Essentially I'd rather have Lowry-Filler and 2-3 draft picks

Instead of Calderon-Dalembert-Early-Lark-Shump-THJR

The only way we'll be rewarded with decisions made

Is to land Okafor or another stud muffin

Would your house be cleaner if you had Shump mopping your floor?

mreinman wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Knicks1969 wrote:I want these dudes (THJ and Shump) to succeed right here in NY. They were drafted by us; we are accountable for their development. It does not look good for the Knicks when a young kid goes elsewhere to develop and shine. Shump has been given ample amount of time to develop, but the same can't be said for THJ

we gotta start selling high and not waiting for our ****ty picks to plummet.

if phish judge that he is not that great ... ship em fast

we gotta stop the youth attachments and just build a good team. I love when our kids play well but how about if we sold shump last year? Or THJ (for Lowry)? Now they are not worth much.

Agreed and I felt this way when we had

Gallo Chandler and other youngans

We don't have to keep our youth if they aren't

Clearly distinguishing themselves as better talents

Within their tier level, would Toronto truly be

Better off with Felton and Shumpert or THJR instead of Lowry

Highly doubtful, would OKC be anymore a lock to win it all

With Shumpert, highly doubful

Meanwhile we'd be a better team with a point guard the caliber of Lowry

And or possibly a draft pick from this past summer draft in the fold

Essentially I'd rather have Lowry-Filler and 2-3 draft picks

Instead of Calderon-Dalembert-Early-Lark-Shump-THJR

The only way we'll be rewarded with decisions made

Is to land Okafor or another stud muffin

I like phil but I will hold him accountable for the non moves that we did not make last season.

Melo? tough one due to cash considerations - even his balls were not big enough for that one.

Tyson should have been moved, we probably should have traded for Lowry (if it was actually an opportunity ... chances were that Ujiri was just playing with our diks)

Shump should not be here.

My theory will always be that from the get go Phil sold Dolan on coming here and doing a quick rebuild with Anthony as the centerpiece (Phil molding him into a star in the triangle and all that zen-y stuff a foregone conclusion in Phil's mind, of course)...

Otherwise, I honestly doubt Dolan would've made the hire. If you wanna dance with the devil, as they say...

Now whether the Anthony gambit comes back to haunt Phil and his untarnished .1000 bball legacy, we will have to see. But I will reserve judgement until I can see what happens when he has some FA money and a high pick at his disposal to build with around the pieces who will be here beyond this season (Anthony, Early, Calderon, Thanasis, etc).