sidsanders wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Nalod wrote:Until Melo is Lebron
F500one won't be happy.

But at least Phil is on the UK
And reading F500one posts

Its about being right
than basketball.

Its hating 101. U pick standards that u Know the person won't reach so u can always have a platform to hate.

For example if I wanted to hate on prime Steve Nash I would demand that he make first team all defense in order to gain my respect.

Well, we are talking about the player with the largest basketball contract on the planet

If players were paid strictly by how many wins they produced then yea. But it don't strictly work like. Having Carmelo on the team boost the Knicks(NBA's most valuable franchise) net worth up by 100s of million. They will generate more profit with Carmelo on the team then the 124mil that was paid to him.

NBA needs to separate these two entities. The salary cap should be based purely on building a winning team. And there should be a separate contract based on market value. In order to prevent abusing it though it needs to be structured so that teams in bigger markets can't offer 20mil to Durant for his market value and 5mil for salary cap etc...

how does lining dolan/cablevisions pockets help us as fans? fans/media are getting on him cuz of results or what they expect the results to be based on his talent/contract. revenue/profit for the knicks isnt going to lessen that.

Please show me where I said it helped the fans? Its the reality that we have to deal with, which is Y I stated the NBA needs to separate these two entities. In order to protect us diehard fans as well as GMs and Presidents that are trying to build winning teams which having to pay someone extra because they generate money doesn't help.

you didnt. i said it since im not sure why it matters what the rev factor is in terms of why folks get on him. being the highest paid player on the team raises expectations for results. when results < expectations you get what we have for the past few years hes been here.

the sal cap is a diff issue to me and not something he should get heat for.

Becuase the rev factor is a factor to Y he gets paid as the highest player on the team or in the league. There are many variables that effect results negative or positive. Fans keep looking for scapegoats.

And I have no problem with fans getting on him for playing poorly. Clearly I was talking about a specific poster who has a hard on for the guy.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Nalod wrote:Until Melo is Lebron
F500one won't be happy.

But at least Phil is on the UK
And reading F500one posts

Its about being right
than basketball.

Its hating 101. U pick standards that u Know the person won't reach so u can always have a platform to hate.

For example if I wanted to hate on prime Steve Nash I would demand that he make first team all defense in order to gain my respect.

Well, we are talking about the player with the largest basketball contract on the planet

If players were paid strictly by how many wins they produced then yea. But it don't strictly work like. Having Carmelo on the team boost the Knicks(NBA's most valuable franchise) net worth up by 100s of million. They will generate more profit with Carmelo on the team then the 124mil that was paid to him.

NBA needs to separate these two entities. The salary cap should be based purely on building a winning team. And there should be a separate contract based on market value. In order to prevent abusing it though it needs to be structured so that teams in bigger markets can't offer 20mil to Durant for his market value and 5mil for salary cap etc...

F500ONE wrote:

No Lin or Kidd to save us last year

No Lin or Kidd to save us this year

What exactly did Lin save us from?

Watching him act

as a turnover machine

in the playoffs?

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Nalod wrote:Until Melo is Lebron
F500one won't be happy.

But at least Phil is on the UK
And reading F500one posts

Its about being right
than basketball.

Its hating 101. U pick standards that u Know the person won't reach so u can always have a platform to hate.

For example if I wanted to hate on prime Steve Nash I would demand that he make first team all defense in order to gain my respect.

Well, we are talking about the player with the largest basketball contract on the planet

If players were paid strictly by how many wins they produced then yea. But it don't strictly work like. Having Carmelo on the team boost the Knicks(NBA's most valuable franchise) net worth up by 100s of million. They will generate more profit with Carmelo on the team then the 124mil that was paid to him.

NBA needs to separate these two entities. The salary cap should be based purely on building a winning team. And there should be a separate contract based on market value. In order to prevent abusing it though it needs to be structured so that teams in bigger markets can't offer 20mil to Durant for his market value and 5mil for salary cap etc...

Fine, Dolan can think about that. I don't care about Dolan's wallet. He's done well all century financially. As a fan, I want Melo to produce wins in accordance with his salary. oOherwise I will wish we used the salary elsewhere.

MSG is a publicly traded company, which is the problem. U really think that I care about Dolan or the stock holders wallets? I'm clearly pointing this out because it effects exactly the things that we do care about. Melo will never be able to produce wins in accordance with his salary because he isn't getting paid strictly by that standard. Same reason Blake Griffin could command 17-20mil a year but be no where near Tim Duncan or KG level in terms of producing wins. Which is why the NBA needs to separate these 2 entities and allow the salary cap to specifically be about building a winning team while the money they get by the rev they produce should be something else.

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Nalod wrote:Until Melo is Lebron
F500one won't be happy.

But at least Phil is on the UK
And reading F500one posts

Its about being right
than basketball.

Its hating 101. U pick standards that u Know the person won't reach so u can always have a platform to hate.

For example if I wanted to hate on prime Steve Nash I would demand that he make first team all defense in order to gain my respect.

the only true standard is whether the player is a net positive-sum player. nash was a net positive-sum playerand for the record the suns were robbed of a title the year the spurs swept the cavs.

since when has carmelo anthony EVER been a net positive-sum player?

Probably all the years he was making the playoffs in Denver as the best player on the team. Don't think those Denver teams were strong enough to make the playoffs if he wasn't making positive contributions.

But that wasn't the point. Like I said if I wanted to hate on Nash I could just harp on his lack of defense regardless of anything he accomplished.

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Nalod wrote:Until Melo is Lebron
F500one won't be happy.

But at least Phil is on the UK
And reading F500one posts

Its about being right
than basketball.

Its hating 101. U pick standards that u Know the person won't reach so u can always have a platform to hate.

For example if I wanted to hate on prime Steve Nash I would demand that he make first team all defense in order to gain my respect.

the only true standard is whether the player is a net positive-sum player. nash was a net positive-sum playerand for the record the suns were robbed of a title the year the spurs swept the cavs.

since when has carmelo anthony EVER been a net positive-sum player?

Probably all the years he was making the playoffs in Denver as the best player on the team. Don't think those Denver teams were strong enough to make the playoffs if he wasn't making positive contributions.

But that wasn't the point. Like I said if I wanted to hate on Nash I could just harp on his lack of defense regardless of anything he accomplished.

Or you could just demand that Melo make the playoffs every single season. Or that he increase his rebounding. Or improve his defense. Or increase his assists. Or lose the headband. Or give back money. Or average a triple double for a season.

fishmike wrote:what we all REALLY want to know is how much it pains you that your title must be on the same line and you cant break it

down

line

by

line.

That

was

hilarious.

Win.

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Nalod wrote:Until Melo is Lebron
F500one won't be happy.

But at least Phil is on the UK
And reading F500one posts

Its about being right
than basketball.

Its hating 101. U pick standards that u Know the person won't reach so u can always have a platform to hate.

For example if I wanted to hate on prime Steve Nash I would demand that he make first team all defense in order to gain my respect.

the only true standard is whether the player is a net positive-sum player. nash was a net positive-sum playerand for the record the suns were robbed of a title the year the spurs swept the cavs.

since when has carmelo anthony EVER been a net positive-sum player?

Probably all the years he was making the playoffs in Denver as the best player on the team. Don't think those Denver teams were strong enough to make the playoffs if he wasn't making positive contributions.

But that wasn't the point. Like I said if I wanted to hate on Nash I could just harp on his lack of defense regardless of anything he accomplished.

ehh the league has been a bloated diluted mess for 15+ years now. rummaging through europe and the ncaa and whatnot has not helped much.

making the playoffs is not that tough since the playoff format allows half the teams in, guaranteeing mediocrity is rewarded. you do understand that, don't you?

it' how you do in the second rounds and beyond that makes you successful-- if you make it that far.

Haha

Goal post move alert goal post move alert. I'm on my phone so I can't break down this reply appropriately. Typical though, measure up to the exact spot specific player has fallen short of and make THAT the standard.

Not like the West was a tough confrence during those times or anything. Nothing like the amazing eastern conf where Nets and Philly made the finals. When Kidd lost in the first round his first 5 yrs in Pheniox he must have been a empty calorie zero sum player but when he moved to that golden east era of the 2000s...

1- Do you guys think that any of our teams were better than Denver's and if our team by next summer will be better than Denver's if we simply let our contracts expire and NOT trade STAT and/or AB for a trade exemption that we could use to improve our team?

A- Were these Denver teams better than the past times we have had than CA and the NYK's?

B- Are we capable of building a better team when CA and Calderon make 30m, versus what CA made in a rookie contract/or much less money/when the salary cap was much higher?
CA's MAX could nearly be 2 players coming out of their rookie contracts MAX, like a bit less than Harden/Hibbert combined, also Monta Ellis, Dirk Nowitski, and Trevor Ariza's salary combined...

C- How long do we have before CA will decline? He is already a shell of the former athlete that he once was, a reason why IMO, he plays the PF better than the SF as he is now older, I would add that he is a much better shooter since he has joined the Knick's but his shot selection became even worse after Porky tried his best to make CA play a system/team oriented game rather than what Woodson enabled him to doing...

Nene in his prime was one of the better PF/C with great mobility/ability to post up/initiate an offense

Camby in Denver was one of the leading shot blockers and rebounders in the entire league

Kmart was still in his prime and he was a very athletic PF, that could defend C, PF, SF, and provide great help DEFENSE

Affalo were all still young and were very solid G/F's, Affalo was consisent and at least an average defender

Billups/Andre Miller/ were both solid PG's, who were leaders while AI was still one of the better scoring guards in the league

CA

so the starting lineup always had at least 4 scorers and on the floor
Camby/Kmart took turns getting injured and Camby eventually got traded, although both were not pretty they finished around the basket and hit the 17footer
Nene was POST presence and could also hit the 17 footer

Bench
=======

JR Smith - was instinct OFFENSE, his minutes was limited at times because of his erratic play, as George Karl wanted to fix his bad habits and wanted JR Smith to play consistent TEAM basketball
Most importantly fully utilize his size/athleticism/skill/potential to its fullest potential, used to defend anywhere from PG to SF
He was always a candidate for 6th man of the year throughout his career and had he been more consistent and focused his game on other things besides scoring he might have earn a higher contract with his maturity issues that he still has as he approaches 30years of age

Kmart came off the bench at times, especially when both Camby/Nene were on the Denver squad and were healthy

Birdman, yes Birdman, he was a solid player and his prime, REBOUNDS/BLOCK SHOTS/STEALS DUNKS ENERGY, under rated, even at a shell of his former self, he was a big part of the Heat and their multiple visits to the Finals

Ty Lawson, yes Ty Lawson was the backup PG at one point of his career in Denver

Then there are the fill ins as role players like

Anthony Carter/Renaldo Balkman/ Dantay Jones/ Shelden Williams giving a limited role but provided a TOUGH defensive roles when called upon as bench players

Though only played with CA for a bit and never actually fitted in with CA, they also signed Al Harrington who was another chucker but could get hot or cold, right after his stinct here in NY
By the trade deadline, the end result was The Denver Knickerbockers

There was always talent on Denver's team, a hell lot more than Lebron ever had in Cleveland, they just played in the tough Western Conference
CA gets credit for going to the play offs but so does the entire team that played with him, as evidenced they had more win's than us EVERY YEAR after the trade, even with our 54 win season in watered down/injury Eastern Conference vs Denver playing in the tougher Western Conference, even with their injuries

While both teams were failures in the play offs...

This summer,
Unless CA's big black book is able to lure free agents over at a discount, I cannot see how overpaying for CA was worth the trade or extension

jrodmc wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

No Lin or Kidd to save us last year

No Lin or Kidd to save us this year

What exactly did Lin save us from?

Watching him act

as a turnover machine

in the playoffs?

Well if you're too dense to recollect

Think of the here and now sitting at 2-6

This team needs someone to save Melo and The Knicks

From another disastrous season

Maybe phone Bobby Brown up overseas

See if he can give us a kick in the Crack Jawsanity

Then maybe we go on a 9-1, 10-0 streak