F500ONE wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

F500ONE wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

F500ONE wrote:Kobe is like a very strong drink

A couple shots and fans get inebriated-liquored up beyond

Not allowing them to focus and assess what's taking place properly

Kobe looks like the usual Kobe who's on a downward trend

He's always been hella overrated

His "hella overrated" evidently was good enough to produce 5 championships as a franchise player. 'Nuff said.

He's leading the Lakers to a lock

Losing season, while making the palyoffs might be a tough task

There's no need for them to be 0-4

They'll probably go 0-10, he's a horrible leader

Who needs a near Superstar talent to have a shot at anything

I don't want to hear anything about his roster

Lin had a crapola roster a couple yrs ago

And led us to a 9-1 stretch early in the season

Kobe might want to let Linsanity loose

Yeah, because teammates are irrelevant. What nonsense.

Not nonsensical to be Ofer

Sorry he can't get Glory but then not get Blame

Interpreting anything without context is dumb and myopic. The Lakers won championships because Kobe was able to be one of their better players. They certainly aren't losing because of that fact, today. The Laker roster simply sucks. Their entire starting lineup is composed of bench caliber players that were waived/dumped by their former team. The Bulls didn't want Boozer and ate his $17 million to get rid of him. The Rockets didn't want Jordan Hill or Jeremy Lin and used a pick to get rid of the latter. The Wolves didn't want Wesley Johnson and let him walk. None of that is a rousing endorsement of their talent.

A Champion and HOF elevates their play

Boozer played good enough with John Lucas running the team

Lin played with Jared Jeffries, Steve Novak, Landry Fields and had a winning record

Wesley Johnson didn't have to be resigned and doesn't have to start

OKC beat Denver No Durant, No WestBrook, No Reggie Jackson

I don't have time for the myopic excuses

Lin played 9 ****ing games with us that were above average and has yet to come close to replicating those performances. There's a difference between that, or OKC beating a mediocre DEN team and 17 seasons of excellence, coupled with 5 championships.

17 seasons of excellence and 5 Championships

Should show up now and not produce 0fers

Dude missed the playoffs in his prime

Playing with Butler and Odom in 2004-2005 [34-48] record

Wade took those same dudes to the playoffs the year prior [42-40] record

To the Semis and almost knocked the Pacers off

I don't want hear a condensed biography of Kobe's playing career

O-V-R-R-A-T-E-D Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap, Clap

Dirk Nowitzki missed the playoffs in his prime. Chris Webber missed the playoffs in his prime. DWAYNE WADE missed the playoffs in his prime. Kevin Garnett missed the playoffs in his prime. Ray Allen missed the playoffs in his prime. Paul Pierce missed the playoffs in his prime. Chris Paul missed the playoffs in his prime. ALL those players are going to the Hall of Fame. Do you start to see how dumb an argument it is to dismiss a player based on whether he missed the playoffs at some point in his career? Now how many of those guys have 5 championship rings to their name?

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Kobe looks really bad right now. He might look good with Melo in the triangle.

What games have you been watching? He looks incredible !

what the hell are you watching and how the hell do you judge players?

Let me guess ... the number of points they score?

Please do some research, did he have a good game last night??????

You're right. We should throw money at Kyle Korver to put us into contention.

And yeah, I thought Kobe had a pretty good game last night.

I watched the whole game last night and he was AWFUL!

Lets take a deeper look than overrated points:

28 points on 28 shots = BAD

1 assist = horrible

7 turnovers = ???

1 for 6 from 3 = bloody awful

So ... how did he have a GOOD game? He was terrible ChuckKobe.

And how many hockey assists did he have? How much space did he create for teammates by being such a prominent offensive player? How many fouls did he draw? How many hustle plays did he have that contributed to an extra possession? None of that stuff is really going to show up on a stat sheet, especially when your intent is biased into trying to make a player look bad.....even if the guy was a franchise player on a team that won 5 rings. If he had a Carmelo Anthony and teammates worth a damn, all this criticism goes away.

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Kobe looks really bad right now. He might look good with Melo in the triangle.

What games have you been watching? He looks incredible !

what the hell are you watching and how the hell do you judge players?

Let me guess ... the number of points they score?

Please do some research, did he have a good game last night??????

You're right. We should throw money at Kyle Korver to put us into contention.

And yeah, I thought Kobe had a pretty good game last night.

I watched the whole game last night and he was AWFUL!

Lets take a deeper look than overrated points:

28 points on 28 shots = BAD

1 assist = horrible

7 turnovers = ???

1 for 6 from 3 = bloody awful

So ... how did he have a GOOD game? He was terrible ChuckKobe.

And how many hockey assists did he have? How much space did he create for teammates by being such a prominent offensive player? How many fouls did he draw? How many hustle plays did he have that contributed to an extra possession? None of that stuff is really going to show up on a stat sheet, especially when your intent is biased into trying to make a player look bad.....even if the guy was a franchise player on a team that won 5 rings. If he had a Carmelo Anthony and teammates worth a damn, all this criticism goes away.

those are all things that people say to excuse awful play and a bad stat sheet.

I think that you are biased and blind to his awful play.

-30?

How many hockey assists did he have? Please show me.

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Kobe looks really bad right now. He might look good with Melo in the triangle.

What games have you been watching? He looks incredible !

what the hell are you watching and how the hell do you judge players?

Let me guess ... the number of points they score?

Please do some research, did he have a good game last night??????

You're right. We should throw money at Kyle Korver to put us into contention.

And yeah, I thought Kobe had a pretty good game last night.

I watched the whole game last night and he was AWFUL!

Lets take a deeper look than overrated points:

28 points on 28 shots = BAD

1 assist = horrible

7 turnovers = ???

1 for 6 from 3 = bloody awful

So ... how did he have a GOOD game? He was terrible ChuckKobe.

And how many hockey assists did he have? How much space did he create for teammates by being such a prominent offensive player? How many fouls did he draw? How many hustle plays did he have that contributed to an extra possession? None of that stuff is really going to show up on a stat sheet, especially when your intent is biased into trying to make a player look bad.....even if the guy was a franchise player on a team that won 5 rings. If he had a Carmelo Anthony and teammates worth a damn, all this criticism goes away.

those are all things that people say to excuse awful play and a bad stat sheet.

I think that you are biased and blind to his awful play.

-30?

How many hockey assists did he have? Please show me.

To know that, I'd have to watch the game and count them out which I am not inclined to do. But you may continue to throw your stats around and pretend they confirm some definitive end. Reality, however, does NOT operate in a vaccuum that gives credence to that nonsense. If it did, I would have believed RealGM and TrueHoop on the cusps of the 2009-2010 season, who began suggesting that Kevin Durant was nothing more than an empty stats guy because he had one of the worst, if not THE worst plus/minus in the league. Fortunately for me, I had eyes and common sense so I never believed it for a second. Today, Kevin Durant is rightfully recognized as a superstar and those ridiculous assertions were quickly forgotten since the Thunder made the playoffs that season.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=964692

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=truehoop&id=11459&src=desktop

so thats your argument? Kevin Durants rep on real gm?

Your eyes are blinding you.

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Kobe looks really bad right now. He might look good with Melo in the triangle.

What games have you been watching? He looks incredible !

what the hell are you watching and how the hell do you judge players?

Let me guess ... the number of points they score?

Please do some research, did he have a good game last night??????

You're right. We should throw money at Kyle Korver to put us into contention.

And yeah, I thought Kobe had a pretty good game last night.

I watched the whole game last night and he was AWFUL!

Lets take a deeper look than overrated points:

28 points on 28 shots = BAD

1 assist = horrible

7 turnovers = ???

1 for 6 from 3 = bloody awful

So ... how did he have a GOOD game? He was terrible ChuckKobe.

And how many hockey assists did he have? How much space did he create for teammates by being such a prominent offensive player? How many fouls did he draw? How many hustle plays did he have that contributed to an extra possession? None of that stuff is really going to show up on a stat sheet, especially when your intent is biased into trying to make a player look bad.....even if the guy was a franchise player on a team that won 5 rings. If he had a Carmelo Anthony and teammates worth a damn, all this criticism goes away.

those are all things that people say to excuse awful play and a bad stat sheet.

I think that you are biased and blind to his awful play.

-30?

How many hockey assists did he have? Please show me.

To know that, I'd have to watch the game and count them out which I am not inclined to do. But you may continue to throw your stats around and pretend they confirm some definitive end. Reality, however, does NOT operate in a vaccuum that gives credence to that nonsense. If it did, I would have believed RealGM and TrueHoop on the cusps of the 2009-2010 season, who began suggesting that Kevin Durant was nothing more than an empty stats guy because he had one of the worst, if not THE worst plus/minus in the league. Fortunately for me, I had eyes and common sense so I never believed it for a second. Today, Kevin Durant is rightfully recognized as a superstar and those ridiculous assertions were quickly forgotten since the Thunder made the playoffs that season.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=964692

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=truehoop&id=11459&src=desktop

so thats your argument? Kevin Durants rep on real gm?

Your eyes are blinding you.

The thread was concerning the article that suggested Durant was an empty stats guy. I offered the thread instead of the article itself because it helped build context on the opinions of Durant at that time. Here is an excerpt from the actual article they were responding to:

And yet, a shocking piece of news: The Thunder have, over the last two years, consistently performed worse than normal when Durant is on the floor. Any way you slice the +/- numbers, he's one of the Thunder's worst players.

You read that correctly. Kevin Durant, uniformly regarded as an out-of-this-world NBA player, has been killing his team.

Sometimes +/- can punish players simply for being on bad teams, but this is more than that. Mavericks' statistical expert Wayne Winston's in-depth lineup data shows that every one of Durant's key teammates -- Russell Westbrook, Jeff Green, Nenad Krstic, Nick Collison -- gets better, in many cases far better, results playing with less heralded teammates Thabo Sefolosha or Kyle Weaver while Durant sits.

In fact, almost nobody on the Thunder has a +/- rating as poor as Durant's. Winston rates Durant's performance "in the lowest 10% of all NBA players."

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=truehoop&id=7047&src=desktop

+/- for the most part is not a reliable stat since you can't make up for other variables.

Durant has turned into one of the top advanced stats guys in the game.

Who is a super max that does not have super advanced stats? Very few.

You are a respectful poster and I like that you are trying to be creative but all the players that you suggest we go after are severe under performers on bloated contracts. Tyreke, Josh Smith ...

Kobe is an enigma that still fools people but he will not bring in the cohesion and team play that we need.

I want mid salaries for guys like:

David West
Goran Dragic
Robby Lopez
K. Leonard
Paul Milsap
Kyly Lowry
K Korver
T Ariza

Advanced stats can have exception especially with the PG's howver, they are usually spot on.

Also, as far as kobe, are you happy with the way he played last night?

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

NYKBocker wrote:Kobe looks really bad right now. He might look good with Melo in the triangle.

What games have you been watching? He looks incredible !

what the hell are you watching and how the hell do you judge players?

Let me guess ... the number of points they score?

Please do some research, did he have a good game last night??????

You're right. We should throw money at Kyle Korver to put us into contention.

And yeah, I thought Kobe had a pretty good game last night.

I watched the whole game last night and he was AWFUL!

Lets take a deeper look than overrated points:

28 points on 28 shots = BAD

1 assist = horrible

7 turnovers = ???

1 for 6 from 3 = bloody awful

So ... how did he have a GOOD game? He was terrible ChuckKobe.

And how many hockey assists did he have? How much space did he create for teammates by being such a prominent offensive player? How many fouls did he draw? How many hustle plays did he have that contributed to an extra possession? None of that stuff is really going to show up on a stat sheet, especially when your intent is biased into trying to make a player look bad.....even if the guy was a franchise player on a team that won 5 rings. If he had a Carmelo Anthony and teammates worth a damn, all this criticism goes away.

those are all things that people say to excuse awful play and a bad stat sheet.

I think that you are biased and blind to his awful play.

-30?

How many hockey assists did he have? Please show me.

To know that, I'd have to watch the game and count them out which I am not inclined to do. But you may continue to throw your stats around and pretend they confirm some definitive end. Reality, however, does NOT operate in a vaccuum that gives credence to that nonsense. If it did, I would have believed RealGM and TrueHoop on the cusps of the 2009-2010 season, who began suggesting that Kevin Durant was nothing more than an empty stats guy because he had one of the worst, if not THE worst plus/minus in the league. Fortunately for me, I had eyes and common sense so I never believed it for a second. Today, Kevin Durant is rightfully recognized as a superstar and those ridiculous assertions were quickly forgotten since the Thunder made the playoffs that season.

http://forums.realgm.com/boards/viewtopic.php?t=964692

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=truehoop&id=11459&src=desktop

so thats your argument? Kevin Durants rep on real gm?

Your eyes are blinding you.

The thread was concerning the article that suggested Durant was an empty stats guy. I offered the thread instead of the article itself because it helped build context on the opinions of Durant at that time. Here is an excerpt from the actual article they were responding to:

And yet, a shocking piece of news: The Thunder have, over the last two years, consistently performed worse than normal when Durant is on the floor. Any way you slice the +/- numbers, he's one of the Thunder's worst players.

You read that correctly. Kevin Durant, uniformly regarded as an out-of-this-world NBA player, has been killing his team.

Sometimes +/- can punish players simply for being on bad teams, but this is more than that. Mavericks' statistical expert Wayne Winston's in-depth lineup data shows that every one of Durant's key teammates -- Russell Westbrook, Jeff Green, Nenad Krstic, Nick Collison -- gets better, in many cases far better, results playing with less heralded teammates Thabo Sefolosha or Kyle Weaver while Durant sits.

In fact, almost nobody on the Thunder has a +/- rating as poor as Durant's. Winston rates Durant's performance "in the lowest 10% of all NBA players."

http://m.espn.go.com/general/blogs/blogpost?blogname=truehoop&id=7047&src=desktop

+/- for the most part is not a reliable stat since you can't make up for other variables.

Durant has turned into one of the top advanced stats guys in the game.

Who is a super max that does not have super advanced stats? Very few.

You are a respectful poster and I like that you are trying to be creative but all the players that you suggest we go after are severe under performers on bloated contracts. Tyreke, Josh Smith ...

Kobe is an enigma that still fools people but he will not bring in the cohesion and team play that we need.

I want mid salaries for guys like:

David West
Goran Dragic
Robby Lopez
K. Leonard
Paul Milsap
Kyly Lowry
K Korver
T Ariza

Advanced stats can have exception especially with the PG's howver, they are usually spot on.

Also, as far as kobe, are you happy with the way he played last night?

West would be a really nice grab this off season though he is getting up there in age.

NardDogNation wrote:

smackeddog wrote:It would be a terrible move- I'm hoping having Phil marks the end of these types of moves.

Name me a player we acquired that has ever been at the level of play of a Kobe Bryant. You'll have a problem doing so because there has been none. Kobe is elite and a surefire HOF.

It's not talent level, it's where he's at health and career wise- T-Mac was an awesome talent but when we got him he was at the end of his career. Kobe only lasted a few games last season on top of the Achilles injury the season before.

babyKnicks wrote:I'd love to get Kobe if amnestied and minimal contract.

Anything else is a star-phuck move at best. Chemistry killer at worst.

smackeddog wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

smackeddog wrote:It would be a terrible move- I'm hoping having Phil marks the end of these types of moves.

Name me a player we acquired that has ever been at the level of play of a Kobe Bryant. You'll have a problem doing so because there has been none. Kobe is elite and a surefire HOF.

It's not talent level, it's where he's at health and career wise- T-Mac was an awesome talent but when we got him he was at the end of his career. Kobe only lasted a few games last season on top of the Achilles injury the season before.

Touche. I been reading so much nonsense about how Kobe's career/game being **** that I thought you were one of them. But the health angle is a very good point that yellowboy has also raised. I'm not suggesting that the deal wouldn't come with risk but I'm not suggesting we give up Trevor Ariza for the shell of Steve Francis or a shot at Nene/Amare for Antonio McDyess. All I'd be willing to give up are expirers that are attached to useless players like Andrea Bargnani, Iman Shumpert and even Amar'e. If the Lakers want young players in the deal as well, I'd expand the deal to include a 3rd team interested in jettisoning young players who have potential but lack trade value e.g. Derrick Williams, CJ McCullom, Evan Turner,etc. But those would be the terms of the deal and I wouldn't budge if I were Phil. The only thing we'd be sacrificing in such a deal is an opportunity to get Greg Monroe or Reggie Jackson, neither of which are capable of impacting a game the way Kobe does at this stage of their respective careers.