If I had a degenerative condition like ALS, MS or bad cancer I'd fight like hell but at some point the balance tips. My kids are now 23 and 20 and my job is about done. I enjoy them more now and hope I can help them in the future in many ways beyond monetary.

I had open heart surgery coming up on 5 years ago and in better shape now than anytime since I turned 30. I exercise everyday adopted tennis as my "thing". Getting good at it also! It takes great humility to start anew. Im sure some of you have been thru tough marriages and had to start fresh to gain happyness. Perhaps many of you are still in the hunt. I love the hunt. Im now entering a new business venture and while I have done well I hate one aspect of my recovery which has been enjoyable apathy. By that, I really have stopped to smell the roses and enjoy myself but miss the thrill of the buisness hunt.

I know a very wealthy man who had remarried and had young children but had a stroke and was having an awful time swollowing. It drove him mad and he blew his head off. I have never been to the levels of dispair that Robin Williams was at but had a good friend who contracted ALS at age 35 with 3 kids under the age of 8! Young, handsome and while the disease can attack you in many ways his became the worst we can fear, he became trapped while his mind was fine.
We talked about it before it took his speach and he said he was so greatful to have been an athlete and felt what that was like, to have played piano and felt music thru his fingers, and to have made three kids and was torn up about not being the kind of dad he wanted to be as he would not live much longer. He had no thoughts of suicide as he knew he could see his kids every day and that would be enough. We don't know how he really felt after he lost his speach and face expressions. I am conflicted by his experience. To see your wife and not tough her? To see your kids and not hug them?

My perception of his experiece was "Id want to shoot myself" but that extra day, extra moment was what he fought for. To think of the torment a guy like Robin Williams went thru that he took his life really takes my breath away and yet at the same time by taking his life he is no longer suffereing! He had every advantage to get well and tried many times.

Nard, I asked you this in another conversation but what is your belief in the afterlife? There is not right or wrong answer but perhaps your belief is what drives your position?

Vmart wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:RIP, Rob! At the end of the day though, I'm not entirely sure that this is a sad thing. He was tremendously talented, made a name for himself and more or less went out on top. And on top of that, he lived a long enough life. We should all be so lucky. Besides, is anyone here really wanting to stick around much longer than 70? I dread old age and its impotency more than I do death. The minute I have problems being able to walk around or do my day-to-days as an able-bodied human being, I'd prefer to drop dead.

do you have children?

No, I'm not even married yet. I'm in my mid-20's so I've been in no rush to try and start a family, especially with me going back to school for a new career. Maybe that'll change my opinion about what I deem to be a good expiration date but I've volunteered in retirement homes and have seen one grandparent fall apart until she died at 93 years old. Old age can get ugly and my early perceptions of it make me feel like clocking out before all that goes down is for the best. Hell, I've already decided that if I have any kind of terminal illness before that point like Alzheimer's (which I'm genetically predisposed for), Pancreatic cancer, MS, any kind of untimely neuro-degeneration, etc. that I'm taking a .45 to the face.

yup... thats your youth talking and thats not a knock, its fine... just where you are. Experience will change that. A lot.

When did your perception on the subject change for you? Did it change?

yes... bigtime. Pretty recently around when I hit or approached 40. I had cancer when I was 19. I survived it with some grace, but all the chemo and radiation during the treatment has left me a ticking timebomb for a variety of nasty things, namely lukemia. I mention this because my 20s were spent being grateful if I made it to 40. I had a lot of fun with the ladies, played amateur full contact football and baseball and really had a grand time. But as my body broke down, and my life changed (wives, 3 kids, bigger role in taking care of extended family) my views did also. I once couldnt sit still. Now my favorite part of the week is getting baked (medicinal, of course) and working in my yard. Getting quiet. Things slow down, and if your lucky your able to adjust and shift your passions to things that work in your life. Mine were once working out, chasing skirts, playing sports and going full steam. Things are slower now, but Im happier than I have ever been. I dont feel like I have comprimised one bit. Ive simply let go of things for younger men. My point is I once just wanted to hit 40. Now Im looking at the next 30 years and I am working on sticking around awhile.

I played a hardball game this summer. Played all nine innings and played a very good outfield. Went 1-3 with a single, two stolen bases and scored the only run in a 2-1 loss, against a bunch of 20 somethings. The guys asked me to join the team. I was like thanks, but GOD NO. I was sore for two weeks after! Im done, and not upset about it. You change. Your body slows and your mind learns to be patient. I just dont give a flying fart about things that once annoyed me. Wisdom is aquired... (spelling clearly is NOT)

Good read. Fish you the man always keeping things in perspective.

You nailed the key word though.. perspective. Sometimes I get fired up I just need to step back and look at whats really bothering me, and 9 times out of 10 its BS I can walk away from or resolve if I so choose.

Like I said its not easy. Practice on the small stuff and the big stuff get easier. We all have a finite number of days on this world. How do you want to spend yours?

The other day the ESPN replayed Jimmy V's first ESPY speech where he had cancer. I forgot how good it was and I ended up pulling over to the side of the road because my eyes were too wet to drive. Then I laughed and called myself a ***** (I was alone in the car) and thought damn Im getting old but things are OK. Perspective. We cant take ourselves too seriously!

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

fishmike wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:RIP, Rob! At the end of the day though, I'm not entirely sure that this is a sad thing. He was tremendously talented, made a name for himself and more or less went out on top. And on top of that, he lived a long enough life. We should all be so lucky. Besides, is anyone here really wanting to stick around much longer than 70? I dread old age and its impotency more than I do death. The minute I have problems being able to walk around or do my day-to-days as an able-bodied human being, I'd prefer to drop dead.

do you have children?

thats the thing... I once thought the same. Then I had kids and got older. I lost my father to parkinsons in 2008. He was 69. I would give up so much just to have another day with my main man, to hear his voice, his experiences.. all that. I think of the same with me... I have really strong bonds with all my kids and hope I can be there for whatever they need as long as possible. Things change...

I have a parent that is dying from parkinsons - horrible disease. There is not much left that she can do but her will to live is so that she can see her children, grand children and now even a great grand child. People don't really want to die unless they are leaving an empty place.

I wish you and your family the best. I didn't know all that about your Mom and I hope that what I'm saying isn't caustic, considering what you're going through. Sorry man.

Thanks man!

He was playing choking masterbation game with belt

Nalod wrote:Nard, thats yoot talking and I get you. But when you gain information and live thru it becomes knowledge. You have demonstrated some very good intellectual ability but Im not sure you have lived enough to be "wise". Its not knock against you, its just how it is.

If I had a degenerative condition like ALS, MS or bad cancer I'd fight like hell but at some point the balance tips. My kids are now 23 and 20 and my job is about done. I enjoy them more now and hope I can help them in the future in many ways beyond monetary.

I had open heart surgery coming up on 5 years ago and in better shape now than anytime since I turned 30. I exercise everyday adopted tennis as my "thing". Getting good at it also! It takes great humility to start anew. Im sure some of you have been thru tough marriages and had to start fresh to gain happyness. Perhaps many of you are still in the hunt. I love the hunt. Im now entering a new business venture and while I have done well I hate one aspect of my recovery which has been enjoyable apathy. By that, I really have stopped to smell the roses and enjoy myself but miss the thrill of the buisness hunt.

I know a very wealthy man who had remarried and had young children but had a stroke and was having an awful time swollowing. It drove him mad and he blew his head off. I have never been to the levels of dispair that Robin Williams was at but had a good friend who contracted ALS at age 35 with 3 kids under the age of 8! Young, handsome and while the disease can attack you in many ways his became the worst we can fear, he became trapped while his mind was fine.
We talked about it before it took his speach and he said he was so greatful to have been an athlete and felt what that was like, to have played piano and felt music thru his fingers, and to have made three kids and was torn up about not being the kind of dad he wanted to be as he would not live much longer. He had no thoughts of suicide as he knew he could see his kids every day and that would be enough. We don't know how he really felt after he lost his speach and face expressions. I am conflicted by his experience. To see your wife and not tough her? To see your kids and not hug them?

My perception of his experiece was "Id want to shoot myself" but that extra day, extra moment was what he fought for. To think of the torment a guy like Robin Williams went thru that he took his life really takes my breath away and yet at the same time by taking his life he is no longer suffereing! He had every advantage to get well and tried many times.

Nard, I asked you this in another conversation but what is your belief in the afterlife? There is not right or wrong answer but perhaps your belief is what drives your position?

Dude, no offense taken. I'm my own harshest critic and understand the need for it from others to grow. More importantly, you don't seem to be the kind of person that wishes ill on anyone so the criticism, if it's that, is welcomed.

Part of my dark attitude to certain diseases is that I hate the idea of being a burden on any one. And the reality is that those diseases would make me just that. To be honest though, it'd be more tenable if I was married and had kids that gave me reason and cared about me enough to share the burden. At this point in my life, however, I've got none of the above, which leaves my immediate family....who are monsters. Death is more appealing than being forced to deal with them on a day-to-day from a position of need. Besides, I live my life in search of a purpose and if I can't continue to seek that purpose, I don't see the need in continuing it, especially on someone else's terms. It's all talk but I don't see what Robin did as unfathomable for me under some of the circumstances I prescribed. Everyone's wired differently I guess.

But, I do feel like I understand your friend who had the stroke. I don't know his situation entirely obviously but if he was severely/permanently incapacitated and couldn't care for himself, why not just end it? Care under those circumstances is so exorbitant anyway...why not just leave the money associated with the care for his wife/kids instead, in order to help them live a fuller life? And again, I'm not trying to be rude or be a dick. I understand you and his family obviously didn't view him/his life as dollar and cents but he's the man of that household and no doubt viewed himself as such. I'd imagine there are considerations like this that come with that. I guess that I could empathize with him on a certain level. At the end of the day, the only thing that is guaranteed is death anyway so what's the difference of accepting it in his situation versus some future, arbitrary date?

As for your other friend with ALS, his circumstance scares me like no other. I respect him as well for hanging on until the bitter end but I don't think that's for me no matter the case. Then again, I don't have a family of my own, so it comes down to perception and one's own vantage point. And again, I'm not trying to be rude or disrespectful to him or his situation. I just can't ever see me willing to accept life on those terms, willingly. I'd much rather my organs be harvested for others if I ever find myself in a coma (beyond 3 weeks), if they are viable.

As for my thoughts on the afterlife, I don't have many. I believe in the efficacy of science...and I know that one of the laws of thermodynamics is that energy can not be created or destroyed. We're a bunch of meat but at the end of the day, electrical impulses give rise to its motion...to its meaning. Maybe all that "dies" is the meat but the essence that gives it meaning lingers in some fashion/form. Obviously this is coming directly from my ass but things were fine before I ever gained conscientiousness, so how bad can things be after I "lose" it? That speculation/reasoning gives me enough comfort to accept life as it is. To each his own. Even though I regularly deride religion, I don't really have a problem with many that subscribe to it, if it gives them the same comfort. My only issue arises when the rest of it is forced on me and others to subscribe/indulge in a public forum.

P.S., sorry the essay but I just wanted to clarify...hopefully not seem so cold or callous.

NardDogNation wrote:

Nalod wrote:Nard, thats yoot talking and I get you. But when you gain information and live thru it becomes knowledge. You have demonstrated some very good intellectual ability but Im not sure you have lived enough to be "wise". Its not knock against you, its just how it is.

If I had a degenerative condition like ALS, MS or bad cancer I'd fight like hell but at some point the balance tips. My kids are now 23 and 20 and my job is about done. I enjoy them more now and hope I can help them in the future in many ways beyond monetary.

I had open heart surgery coming up on 5 years ago and in better shape now than anytime since I turned 30. I exercise everyday adopted tennis as my "thing". Getting good at it also! It takes great humility to start anew. Im sure some of you have been thru tough marriages and had to start fresh to gain happyness. Perhaps many of you are still in the hunt. I love the hunt. Im now entering a new business venture and while I have done well I hate one aspect of my recovery which has been enjoyable apathy. By that, I really have stopped to smell the roses and enjoy myself but miss the thrill of the buisness hunt.

I know a very wealthy man who had remarried and had young children but had a stroke and was having an awful time swollowing. It drove him mad and he blew his head off. I have never been to the levels of dispair that Robin Williams was at but had a good friend who contracted ALS at age 35 with 3 kids under the age of 8! Young, handsome and while the disease can attack you in many ways his became the worst we can fear, he became trapped while his mind was fine.
We talked about it before it took his speach and he said he was so greatful to have been an athlete and felt what that was like, to have played piano and felt music thru his fingers, and to have made three kids and was torn up about not being the kind of dad he wanted to be as he would not live much longer. He had no thoughts of suicide as he knew he could see his kids every day and that would be enough. We don't know how he really felt after he lost his speach and face expressions. I am conflicted by his experience. To see your wife and not tough her? To see your kids and not hug them?

My perception of his experiece was "Id want to shoot myself" but that extra day, extra moment was what he fought for. To think of the torment a guy like Robin Williams went thru that he took his life really takes my breath away and yet at the same time by taking his life he is no longer suffereing! He had every advantage to get well and tried many times.

Nard, I asked you this in another conversation but what is your belief in the afterlife? There is not right or wrong answer but perhaps your belief is what drives your position?

Dude, no offense taken. I'm my own harshest critic and understand the need for it from others to grow. More importantly, you don't seem to be the kind of person that wishes ill on anyone so the criticism, if it's that, is welcomed.

Part of my dark attitude to certain diseases is that I hate the idea of being a burden on any one. And the reality is that those diseases would make me just that. To be honest though, it'd be more tenable if I was married and had kids that gave me reason and cared about me enough to share the burden. At this point in my life, however, I've got none of the above, which leaves my immediate family....who are monsters. Death is more appealing than being forced to deal with them on a day-to-day from a position of need. Besides, I live my life in search of a purpose and if I can't continue to seek that purpose, I don't see the need in continuing it, especially on someone else's terms. It's all talk but I don't see what Robin did as unfathomable for me under some of the circumstances I prescribed. Everyone's wired differently I guess.

But, I do feel like I understand your friend who had the stroke. I don't know his situation entirely obviously but if he was severely/permanently incapacitated and couldn't care for himself, why not just end it? Care under those circumstances is so exorbitant anyway...why not just leave the money associated with the care for his wife/kids instead, in order to help them live a fuller life? And again, I'm not trying to be rude or be a dick. I understand you and his family obviously didn't view him/his life as dollar and cents but he's the man of that household and no doubt viewed himself as such. I'd imagine there are considerations like this that come with that. I guess that I could empathize with him on a certain level. At the end of the day, the only thing that is guaranteed is death anyway so what's the difference of accepting it in his situation versus some future, arbitrary date?

As for your other friend with ALS, his circumstance scares me like no other. I respect him as well for hanging on until the bitter end but I don't think that's for me no matter the case. Then again, I don't have a family of my own, so it comes down to perception and one's own vantage point. And again, I'm not trying to be rude or disrespectful to him or his situation. I just can't ever see me willing to accept life on those terms, willingly. I'd much rather my organs be harvested for others if I ever find myself in a coma (beyond 3 weeks), if they are viable.

As for my thoughts on the afterlife, I don't have many. I believe in the efficacy of science...and I know that one of the laws of thermodynamics is that energy can not be created or destroyed. We're a bunch of meat but at the end of the day, electrical impulses give rise to its motion...to its meaning. Maybe all that "dies" is the meat but the essence that gives it meaning lingers in some fashion/form. Obviously this is coming directly from my ass but things were fine before I ever gained conscientiousness, so how bad can things be after I "lose" it? That speculation/reasoning gives me enough comfort to accept life as it is. To each his own. Even though I regularly deride religion, I don't really have a problem with many that subscribe to it, if it gives them the same comfort. My only issue arises when the rest of it is forced on me and others to subscribe/indulge in a public forum.

P.S., sorry the essay but I just wanted to clarify...hopefully not seem so cold or callous.

GustavBahler wrote:They are reporting that Williams just found out that he had Parkinson's disease. This disease in addition to his chronic depression was too much for him I guess.

WOW! Can't blame him. Life with Parkinsons is awful.

WaltLongmire wrote:

mreinman wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:They are reporting that Williams just found out that he had Parkinson's disease. This disease in addition to his chronic depression was too much for him I guess.

WOW! Can't blame him. Life with Parkinsons is awful.

Of course he could have been someone who brought attention to disease and helped it get publicity and $$ that would go to its study and possible cure.

Have not seen him recently, so I don't know if the disease had yet to show itself in his mannerisms.

Katharine Hepburn lived with it for years and managed to get by.

Michael J. Fox has been proactive and is doing everything he can to find a cure for the disease.

Williams could have been a great ambassador for the disease.

He saw how his good friend Christopher Reeves dealt with his problem, which was, in many ways, much worse than Parkinsons.

I can't say how I would react if I had it, but Williams had other options, and could have done great things in the name of curing the disease.

You left out the part about the chronic depression, that alone can be a debilitating condition.

Nard, I suppose when your surrounded by love the energy carries you. My heart attack and operation was a cake walk compared to what Fish went thru. When my 3 year old nephew got cancer I took him for treatment at Sloan Kettering and to share Fish's experience with the children is quite an experiences. Children with head bandages from surgery and chemo flowing thru them is quite depressing and yet at the same time the "energy" that makes them go on and their families is born from love. If your family is "monsters" then its hard to understand.

My wife and I have been thru a lot over the years but thankfully our children are very healthy. My dad is 87 and the other three parents are their 70's and there is always reason to be concerned over one thing or another. They keep going out of love of life, love of the children, the memories and the grandchildren! Nard, if your ever lucky enough to marry into a loving family I hope you let it just happen. Let the intellect melt away and just let it happen.

Regarding Robin williams I guess only those with deep derpression can really speak to what its like. Sure there are those with parkinsons and have done ok with it but to me it seems like Williams has fought his demons for years and while he might have been a spokesman he has a lot of history of being active in giving back to causes and generous with his time and money. I would not judge him.

Maybe he didn't have to take his own life, but we are only getting fed from media reports and not him. I'll give the man his dignity and not second guess or judge his actions. Maybe his suicide will help others deal with depression and bring it more to the forefront. Maybe it helps families deal with it and rather than judge those afflicted, we can just love them.