nixluva wrote:knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:knickscity wrote:nixluva wrote:I started this thread because I know it's all too easy to just generalize or pick on a player or 2 that people don't like and try to make them the reason for the losing. I think if you look at any successful team the success starts at the top. Just cuz a team has talent doesn't guarantee wins.
Ironically, that's what you did in your opening post.
Nice try, but no I didn't just generalize ie "the Knicks suck", "every player deserves the blame" nor did I pick on Felton cuz I didn't like him ie "Melo sucks". I was SPECIFIC and gave a very clear and detailed explanation of how Dolan and Woody, 2 NON PLAYERS in charge of making decisions, preparing and leading this team, failed. Also how the on the floor leader of the offense, Felton, didn't get it done. That in turn had a direct impact on how the entire team played, which as we all know was below their capabilities. Those 3 represent the rudder of the ship. The team can't succeed if those 3 don't do a good job. You can survive another player underperforming or having a slump. However, if you are being directed off a cliff by your Owner, Head Coach and starting PG the entire rest of the team goes down with them. They have no choice.
Now we have replaced those 3 with Phil, Fish and Jose. They have at least the history of being leaders, good decision makers and a good on the floor leader who is good in the locker room as well. That is not just generalizing and displaying blind faith as some have put it. So far the evidence shows there is a change in the way things are being handled. The depth of thought going into planning and decision making is much clearer. That's why I posted the thoughts of Phil to give a bit more insight into how he's thinking and what goes into his decision making for this franchise. I think you couldn't be more wrong in your take on my posts. Then again a one sentence retort to my posts had very little chance of being accurate anyway. How about laying out a well thought out reason for what you think about last years Knicks and this new Knicks regime.
Look my man, you made the thread blaming Felton and Woodson and you certainly put them as ultimate blame for the season, you've debated that several times in this thread, so no need to pretend you havent...the posts are there for anyone's viewing.But you're absoulutely displaying blind faith because neither of the entities have done their respective roles before, yet you truly believe they WILL be successful with no doubt of failure.
Phil has NEVER ran a team from the office and quite honestly never had to build a team from the ground.....he can do well, he can also fail depending on results.
Fisher despite being groomed by Phil will have to make decisions as a coach and has NEVER been in the role....he as well can fail, and he can also do well...depending on results.
Calderon has NEVER been viewed in the light you're putting him in, certainly not on an NBA level. I cant recall any raptors fans being upset calderon was traded....just like Bargnani, they were happy to see them go.....primarily because their lack of defense eclipses what they bring on offense. Their teams just couldnt cover that aspect up no matter what.
Also in the triangle, Calderon is minimized....his strength is ball control even morseo than shooting which is top notch as well, and he wont have ball control, and honestly I dont know what he's able to do without the ball in his hands exclusively.
I said this before, but Fisher may need to really analyze if the triangle is best for THIS group as it may not be, and when he was introduced he stated plainly his offense WILL be determined by the personnel so he may have to go against Phil's desire "on the court". This team under any circumstances cannot be a loser next season.....not when you want to attract free agents, not when you have a maxed out melo that just missed the playoffs and is banking on you to help him win, and certainly does not want to spend consecutive years as LOSER. I wouldnt even know what kind of culture can be harvested with losing in the middle of it.
These Knicks are vets, their patience in something wont last long if it isnt working, and that will sprinkle onto the kids who arent quite good enough to hold the fort down if the vets arent producing.
This could work well, sure it very well could.....it can also implode. next year being successful is crucial.
Call me what you want though, but three entities in new roles and a team full of players who are used to doing things their way is a recipe for an implosion, but I have no doubt they will try everything they are taught, I just have my doubts if it will work.
There you go! Was that so hard? A more thorough and reasoned argument is all I ask. Now as i've said and you STILL don't understand, it's about the fact that Dolan, Woody and Felton occupied a very important set of roles for this team. Those roles IMO gave them a higher degree of culpability in the teams success or failure. I laid that out over the course of this thread. NOTHING you wrote refutes my contention that you can't really succeed if your Top decision maker ie Dolan is making horrid decisions. You can't succeed if your Head Coach is compromised by the Owner, GM or President. In our case Dolan put himself in the mix as the de facto President of BB. Woody was a complete MESS last year. That effected the entire team by default since the Head Coach is responsible for the entire team. Felton as the starting PG carried a heavy responsibility as well. He's at the head of the offense and defense. You can't have that player perform at the level of the #40 PG n the league and expect success.
POINT GUARDS 2014
PLAYER RATING GP MPG PPG RPG APG FG % FT %
1. Stephen Curry, GS 91.01 78 36.5 24.0 4.3 8.5 47.1 88.5
2. John Wall, WAS 85.75 82 36.3 19.3 4.1 8.8 43.3 80.5
3. Damian Lillard, POR 83.88 82 35.8 20.7 3.5 5.6 42.4 87.1
4. Kyle Lowry, TOR 82.66 79 36.2 17.9 4.7 7.4 42.3 81.3
5. Goran Dragic, PHO 82.20 76 35.1 20.3 3.2 5.9 50.5 76.0
6. Monta Ellis, DAL 82.17 82 36.9 19.0 3.6 5.7 45.1 78.8
7. Kyrie Irving, CLE 79.33 71 35.2 20.8 3.6 6.1 43.0 86.1
8. Isaiah Thomas, SAC 77.10 72 34.7 20.3 2.9 6.3 45.3 85.0
9. Kemba Walker, CHA 76.92 73 35.8 17.7 4.2 6.1 39.3 83.7
10. Chris Paul, LAC 76.63 62 35.0 19.1 4.3 10.7 46.7 85.5
11. Jeff Teague, ATL 76.61 79 32.2 16.5 2.6 6.7 43.8 84.6
12. Brandon Jennings, DET 75.73 80 34.1 15.5 3.0 7.6 37.3 75.1
13. Mike Conley, MEM 75.63 73 33.5 17.2 2.9 6.0 45.0 81.5
14. M Carter-Williams, PHI 74.54 70 34.5 16.7 6.2 6.3 40.5 70.3
15. Ricky Rubio, MIN 74.05 82 32.2 9.5 4.2 8.6 38.1 80.2
16. Brandon Knight, MIL 73.05 72 33.3 17.9 3.5 4.9 42.2 80.2
17. Reggie Jackson, OKC 72.15 80 28.5 13.1 3.9 4.1 44.0 89.3
18. Jose Calderon, DAL 71.64 81 30.5 11.4 2.4 4.7 45.6 82.5
19. Randy Foye, DEN 71.06 81 30.7 13.2 2.9 3.5 41.3 84.9
20. Ty Lawson, DEN 70.42 62 35.8 17.6 3.5 8.8 43.1 79.8
21. George Hill, IND 69.64 76 32.0 10.3 3.7 3.5 44.2 80.7
22. Alec Burks, UTA 69.58 78 28.1 14.0 3.3 2.7 45.7 74.8
23. Tony Parker, SA 69.42 68 29.4 16.7 2.3 5.7 49.9 81.1
24. Tyreke Evans, NO 68.61 72 28.2 14.5 4.7 5.0 43.6 77.1
25. Darren Collison, LAC 68.17 80 25.9 11.4 2.4 3.7 46.7 85.7
26. Ramon Sessions, MIL 67.88 83 26.7 12.3 2.4 4.1 42.9 80.7
27. Trey Burke, UTA (Rookie) 67.28 70 32.3 12.8 3.0 5.7 38.0 90.3
28. Jameer Nelson, ORL 66.59 68 32.0 12.1 3.4 7.0 39.4 85.7
29. Jarrett Jack, CLE 66.01 80 28.2 9.5 2.8 4.0 41.0 83.9
30. Mario Chalmers, MIA 64.69 73 29.8 9.8 2.9 4.9 45.4 74.2
31. Deron Williams, BKN 64.52 64 32.2 14.3 2.6 6.1 45.0 80.1
32. Jeremy Lin, HOU 64.46 71 28.9 12.5 2.6 4.1 44.6 82.3
33. D.J. Augustin, CHI 64.05 71 27.3 13.1 1.8 4.4 41.5 88.5
34. Shaun Livingston, BKN 63.47 76 26.0 8.3 3.2 3.2 48.3 82.7
35. Rodney Stuckey, DET 62.81 73 26.7 13.9 2.3 2.1 43.6 83.6
36. Greivis Vasquez, TOR 62.59 79 22.5 9.6 2.2 4.1 42.1 88.0
37. Patty Mills, SA 62.53 81 18.9 10.2 2.1 1.8 46.4 89.0
38. Mo Williams, POR 62.30 74 24.8 9.7 2.1 4.3 41.7 87.6
39. Kirk Hinrich, CHI 61.09 73 29.0 9.1 2.6 3.9 39.3 76.0
40. Norris Cole, MIA 59.70 82 24.6 6.4 2.0 3.0 41.4 77.9
41. Avery Bradley, BOS 58.50 60 30.9 14.8 3.8 1.4 43.8 80.4
42. Brian Roberts, NO 58.27 72 23.2 9.4 1.9 3.2 42.0 94.0
43. Raymond Felton, NY 57.77 65 31.0 9.7 3.0 5.6 39.5 72.1
I disagree about your assessment of Jose. Sure Jose won't be playing as a ball dominant PG, but he still will have an impact on the team as a leader who can direct players if they're in the wrong spots. He'll still have times when he's in the 2 man game in the Pinch Post to do what a good PG does. He'll be very important as a 3pt weapon as well. He'll still have a voice in the locker room and can help his teammates with advice and direction. There's no doubt that he'll be more effective than Felton would be in the same position.
From reading what you wrote about the Vets being able or willing to accept the Triangle is somewhat valid. Any team going to a new offense is going to have some adjustment issues. What makes it go easier is having players like Jose who are mature and easy to coach. Fish has already had some success with the kids quickly adjusting to the offense. It gives a lot more of a positive spin on the prospects of him getting the vets to learn the offense. He already has players who can demonstrate the basics quite well. The toughest part of the offense is the details of the footwork and spacing. The team must master those aspects and be diligent to execute in order for the offense to work at a high level. Let's not overstate this tho cuz it's not rocket science.
The culture Phil is building will make it easier to win, not harder. Getting his players to think about sharing the ball is a frame of mind as well as the technical ball and player moves in the system. Phil has proven he can get players to buy in. Fish has been a vocal leader on his teams for years and so far has been building a good rapport with his players in a short time they had. No one can guarantee the future. That's not what this is about. You can prepare for success tho. IMO that starts with putting good, qualified people in key places at the lead of your team. Phil, Fish and Jose are those kinds of people. Nothing in their past would warrant pessimism about the job they will do.
Actually I've said nothing different, I copied quite a few of my posts together with slight rewording and made a longer post, as I know you believe longer posts means better.....but since I have your attention.....
If we're basing Calderon vs the affects of Felton then sure he could be better. Last year wasnt good at all for Felton, alot of it being his off the court matters...imagine trying to do your job wherever you work at going through a divorce after you literally just got married, and your own wife sold you out to the police. Depending on where you work, you'd probably be out of work. But make no mistake felton was serviceable the year prior and team IMMEDIATELY missed him when he hurt his hand, they played like garbage in his absence as Kidd couldnt run the point and neither could Pablo effectively. But Felton has one major flaw and I'm 100 in belief Phil was not going....felton likes to play himself into shape. Felton especially had to go.
Now back to Calderon....he's a good player, not so much on defense, fans were glad to see him go because while his number are good the team didnt win, but he has never on the NBA level been touted as a a leader, and on top of his game automatically being minimized in the triangle.
Calderon fits the narrative of every vet on the team, the things they do best, they'll be doing less of. Calderon wont have the ball nearly as much as he's used to....can he adjust? Can he be a player who just moves and isnt part of the two man game? Can he read a defense possession by possession and not only know where to move but be ready for what the defense allows immediately? The jury is out on that. but those are just the basics that EVERY player on the team will have to adjust to. some guys arent even used to passing the ball, let alone moving without it.
Speaking on SL, I did see quite a few positives. The kids, some who knew they had no shot of making the team were playing hard within the triangle system, but I also saw something else and it happened during the next to the last game and the the last game.
I saw the team revert to what they individually know and they abandoned the triangle....didnt even run it in their final game which wound up beiong a loss. So yes, I can see things transpiring during the real show, and as I've said before, when things get rough will the VETS continue to do the system or will they do what they are ingrained to do? Hopefully the former, but I wouldnt be surprised to see tha latter.
Now on Phil....he's a master at getting more from his teams and certain things from individuals, but his teams weren't subpar, questionable, or just plain bad. the Lakers and Bulls were good BEFORE he got there and their cores were elite on both sides of the ball and their stars understanding of how to play the game was already top notch. Thats not the case here in NY, so thats challenge numero uno.
One thing though I do think Phil does that I personally appreciate is his ability to channel a player or two and get them to adjust a major aspect of their game and focus on the part he needs. he did that with Ron Atest who was roguhly a 20 point scorer and a superb defender. Phil needed his focus primarily on defense...alot to ask of a guy who could get 20 per contest. He did the same with Ron Harper, a legit 20ppg scorer and tasked him with defense primarily as well. Not only did his scoring drop drmatically...but almost his mutes. That was a huge buy in....but going to a place known for winning at the time makes the buy in easier, Ron harper knew what he was heading into.
Thats why I really do feel winning has to happen next season, not just the culture change, but on the court winning.
Believe it or not, there is a contingent that believes Phil's only successful because he's had the best the league had to offer.....I think we can both agree the games matter this time around.
8/9/2014 12:52 AM LAST EDITED: 8/9/2014 12:58 AM
