dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:I know it's easy to just bash Bargs, but Fish and Phil's job is to get him as right as they can. Both for the good of the team and to raise his trade value. Depending on how good Bargs does, you never know if phil might decide to keep him on a reasonable contract. To start the year only Melo and Bargs were playing well, but it's easy to forget how playing with Felton brought his game down too. When Tyson went down we won a bunch of games against tough competition with Bargs in there. Bargs was basically locking down other centers. It's not impossible to win with Bargs in the rotation. I think Phil is well aware of Bargs weaknesses and he's gonna do everything he can to work on those areas.

For all the crap that people love to spew about Bargs he has had some success as a player. 15, 17, 21 and 19 PPG over 4 years. He's never had a person like Phil in his corner. Maybe that can really be the difference. Fish has played with Gasol who also has had his issues with underperforming. Maybe he also learned something about how to get thru to a player like that from being there when Phil did his thing. Let's at least see what happens before we make final judgements. Bargs is 28 and hasn't had any knee surgeries. He's still got a chance to save his career and realize the talent he has.

lets start with the negatives and build a case for bargnani:

1) he is a terrible rotator on defense, like most slow-footed white guys, and is only able to occasionally hold his own in single coverage, a flaw which is covered by the fact that there are so few effective big men in the league. for instance, tim duncan would utterly destroy bargani. al jefferson, paul milsap, aldridge, lopez, gasol brothers.
2) his usage to assist ratio is really quite bad, an indicator of undermining cohesion. this may be due to the notion that he is actually closer to a "finisher" than a playmaker-- but in my estimate this ratio is still way too high even for a finisher such as he, especially when you consider that his finishing is in the midrange area of the court, where he shoots closer to 50% than 60%. and 60% is an important marker for finishers.

these negative attributes put him in a pretty significant negative-sum hole. so what positives are we looking for with him? his defense is a lost cause.

1) we are hoping the triangle will help inculcate a better ball-sharing ethos, and with that in mind we assume he will be able to see the floor well enough to hit cutters. if this happens it will be reflected in a lower usage to assist rate ratio, say closer to 2:1 or lower.
2) we are hoping that his TS%, also abysmal at around 53.5%, will rise to closer to 58% or even higher.

assuming you understand the metrics i am sharing, do you feel confident that bargnani can rise to the occasion that the triangle will allegedly provide?

I'm insulted by your comment about metrics. PLEASE. Bargs has always been a solid man defender. That was proven again last year. As for him being a "slow footed white guy", that's not true. He simply doesn't think the game like a paint defender. He's always been more of a giant SF. He can learn to play better paint defense. Not saying he'll be great but he can get better if he's taught the right defensive technique and principles. He actually did start to get better last year the more he played center.

I do believe that Bargs can become a good passer in the triangle. He's never really been put in a situation where he could make a lot passes like bigs do in the Triangle. He can in fact pass tho. Bargs is more talented than you give him credit for. He can block shots and he's not slow. He was getting his confidence back at the beginning of the year when Tyson went down and then as Felton, JR and Shump continued to suck that dragged him down with them. Imagine when he started the year 16-6-1 blk a game if we had jose instead and he was helping Bargs rather than freezing him out? Bargs might have done even more and got his mojo back.

yellowboy90 wrote:Is a slow-footed white guy less or more terrible at rotating than a slow-footed black/(any other race) guy? Someone look it up for me. smh

Slow footed Malaysian is the worst.

Really tho there's this idea that Bargs is slow which is strange since he's able to blow by so many defenders and can run the floor pretty well. As I said his main issue is not being a guy who has played as a big. He's always played more like a SF and he needs to be taught how to play as a 7'er giving help D. I think he got some experience doing that last year and seemed to be picking up some aspects of the role. I think Bargs needs to be pumped up by his coach and teammates. When he's into the game and focused he shows the kind of talent he has, but he has to be involved. To often the game plan didn't really focus on Bargs at all and he faded. The more Woody went to ISO Melo the worse Bargs played. But when he was involved early and they stayed with him he played so much better.

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Is a slow-footed white guy less or more terrible at rotating than a slow-footed black/(any other race) guy? Someone look it up for me. smh

Slow footed Malaysian is the worst.

Really tho there's this idea that Bargs is slow which is strange since he's able to blow by so many defenders and can run the floor pretty well. As I said his main issue is not being a guy who has played as a big. He's always played more like a SF and he needs to be taught how to play as a 7'er giving help D. I think he got some experience doing that last year and seemed to be picking up some aspects of the role. I think Bargs needs to be pumped up by his coach and teammates. When he's into the game and focused he shows the kind of talent he has, but he has to be involved. To often the game plan didn't really focus on Bargs at all and he faded. The more Woody went to ISO Melo the worse Bargs played. But when he was involved early and they stayed with him he played so much better.

there is a huge difference between (1) the explosiveness that you can generate forward on the one hand and on the other hand (2)backpedaling and (3) lateral quickness.

lots of players are great at (1) but just don't have (2) and (3). the musculature used for these three different movements is divergent.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:Is a slow-footed white guy less or more terrible at rotating than a slow-footed black/(any other race) guy? Someone look it up for me. smh

Slow footed Malaysian is the worst.

Really tho there's this idea that Bargs is slow which is strange since he's able to blow by so many defenders and can run the floor pretty well. As I said his main issue is not being a guy who has played as a big. He's always played more like a SF and he needs to be taught how to play as a 7'er giving help D. I think he got some experience doing that last year and seemed to be picking up some aspects of the role. I think Bargs needs to be pumped up by his coach and teammates. When he's into the game and focused he shows the kind of talent he has, but he has to be involved. To often the game plan didn't really focus on Bargs at all and he faded. The more Woody went to ISO Melo the worse Bargs played. But when he was involved early and they stayed with him he played so much better.

there is a huge difference between (1) the explosiveness that you can generate forward on the one hand and on the other hand (2)backpedaling and (3) lateral quickness.

lots of players are great at (1) but just don't have (2) and (3). the musculature used for these three different movements is divergent.

Check out this video that includes Bargs defense as well as offense. You can see his defensive qualities. His good and bad. His inconsistency. You can also see how athletic he actually is, tho a bit awkward looking. He's NOT SLOW and doesn't LACK LATERAL quickness. He lacks great technique and being used to being a help defender. He could be taught IMO.