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fishmike
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7/13/2014  5:05 PM
And nix there are reports the cap could hit $80mm after the tv deal.
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
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nixluva
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7/13/2014  5:16 PM
fishmike wrote:And nix there are reports the cap could hit $80mm after the tv deal.

Yeah I mean people need to get off this obsession with one players salary. That isn't going to stop us from doing anything. What kills you is contracts like STAT's and Bargs. Since we only have them for one season and maybe less, that isn't worth biotching about. NEW F'N DAY!!! We aren't in cap hell anymore and we have talent and picks in the future. This is about what Phil and his staff can do from here to put together a winning team using every option draft picks, trades, FA's alike.
babyKnicks
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7/13/2014  5:17 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/13/2014  5:18 PM
Based on the projected lineups and assuming melo goes back to the natural 3 position in the triangle (as cleanathony is playing in summer league), a area no doubt bargs are our PFs.

If they don't perform, the thought is to sure up the PF Position with Love next year.

If they want to sure it up this year, humphries is rated the second best PF available.

Could be a missing piece and he is really good on defense contrary to popular opinion around these parts.

http://hoopshype.com/free_agency/power_forwards_2014.htm

1. Andray Blatche
Unrestricted
Power Forward / 6-11
2013-14 team: Brooklyn
11.2 ppg, 5.3 rpg
Too good to be making the minimum, but off-the-court issues are a deterrent to potential suitors.

Agent: Andy Miller 2013/14 Earnings: $9,170,525 Career Earnings: $31,255,166
Andray Blatche Rumors


2. Kris Humphries
Unrestricted
Power Forward / 6-9
2013-14 team: Boston
8.4 ppg, 5.9 rpg
Low-post bruiser with nice rebounding skills.

Agent: Arn Tellem 2013/14 Earnings: $12,000,000 Career Earnings: $48,900,233
- See more at: http://hoopshype.com/free_agency/power_forwards_2014.htm#sthash.lyphBvZp.dpuf

Let's go Knicks. That's amare
Dagger
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7/13/2014  5:39 PM
babyKnicks wrote:Based on the projected lineups and assuming melo goes back to the natural 3 position in the triangle (as cleanathony is playing in summer league), a area no doubt bargs are our PFs.

If they don't perform, the thought is to sure up the PF Position with Love next year.

If they want to sure it up this year, humphries is rated the second best PF available.

Love is not a good fit with Melo, they have the same strengths, take up similar spaces on the floor, and have similar weaknesses. Much rather have Gasol. Chasing Love with Melo on the roster is courting starphuck disaster.
dk7th
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7/13/2014  5:44 PM
Dagger wrote:
babyKnicks wrote:Based on the projected lineups and assuming melo goes back to the natural 3 position in the triangle (as cleanathony is playing in summer league), a area no doubt bargs are our PFs.

If they don't perform, the thought is to sure up the PF Position with Love next year.

If they want to sure it up this year, humphries is rated the second best PF available.

Love is not a good fit with Melo, they have the same strengths, take up similar spaces on the floor, and have similar weaknesses. Much rather have Gasol. Chasing Love with Melo on the roster is courting starphuck disaster.

you mean like back in 2011? why'd we do it back then?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
babyKnicks
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7/13/2014  5:45 PM
Actually. Gasol not so bad. If he comes for $15mill. Lol. Maybe $20mill
Let's go Knicks. That's amare
Dagger
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7/13/2014  6:08 PM
dk7th wrote:
Dagger wrote:
babyKnicks wrote:Based on the projected lineups and assuming melo goes back to the natural 3 position in the triangle (as cleanathony is playing in summer league), a area no doubt bargs are our PFs.

If they don't perform, the thought is to sure up the PF Position with Love next year.

If they want to sure it up this year, humphries is rated the second best PF available.

Love is not a good fit with Melo, they have the same strengths, take up similar spaces on the floor, and have similar weaknesses. Much rather have Gasol. Chasing Love with Melo on the roster is courting starphuck disaster.

you mean like back in 2011? why'd we do it back then?

Because we didn't know any better, hopefully we've learned.
tj23
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7/14/2014  5:17 AM
Timmy reminds me of Anthony Morrow/Jodie Meeks honestly. I said he looked like a solid role player coming out and that's what he still appears to be. Hopefully he makes some strides but that's my evaluation. I'd love for him to be the next Ray Allen but just because we want something doesn't make it true.

I'm excited Melo chose to stay. We'll see where it takes us. Outside of Melo this looks like a lottery team and I'm not a fan of tanking. If it means another first round exit so be it. I won't be content, but realistically I can't ask for a lot more given out level of talent.
gunsnewing
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7/14/2014  6:25 AM
Dagger wrote:
babyKnicks wrote:Based on the projected lineups and assuming melo goes back to the natural 3 position in the triangle (as cleanathony is playing in summer league), a area no doubt bargs are our PFs.

If they don't perform, the thought is to sure up the PF Position with Love next year.

If they want to sure it up this year, humphries is rated the second best PF available.

Love is not a good fit with Melo, they have the same strengths, take up similar spaces on the floor, and have similar weaknesses. Much rather have Gasol. Chasing Love with Melo on the roster is courting starphuck disaster.

I want Marc gasol just not sure thing all the money up in those 2 players is championship worthy. Melo and gasol
gunsnewing
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7/14/2014  6:37 AM
Maybe we get really lucky with the 2015 pick
meloshouldgo
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7/14/2014  7:26 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/14/2014  7:53 AM
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:And nix there are reports the cap could hit $80mm after the tv deal.

Yeah I mean people need to get off this obsession with one players salary. That isn't going to stop us from doing anything. What kills you is contracts like STAT's and Bargs. Since we only have them for one season and maybe less, that isn't worth biotching about. NEW F'N DAY!!! We aren't in cap hell anymore and we have talent and picks in the future. This is about what Phil and his staff can do from here to put together a winning team using every option draft picks, trades, FA's alike.

Would you continue to feel this way if Melo needs shoulder surgery or tears an ACL in the first 40 games? The reason we don't like this type of contract is it then becomes an albatross for this franchise for the next 5 years. Melo at the max is being overpaid no matter how you spin it. Melo at the max and injured means we will never compete for anything and we won't be allowed to get better. Apparently going thru this with Amare clearly want enough to figure this out. We are paying someone who will only delivery a championship IF he buys in, IF he changes his style of play, IF he plays defense consistently, IF he gets enough support from the roster around him, IF he had another superstar on the team. Is it truly worth the risk/reward trade off to pay a guy like that the max with that many IFs?

IF any one of those iFs are not fulfilled we ate guaranteed to be mediocre for the next 5 years.

I cannot teach anybody anything. I can only try to make them think - Socrates
CrushAlot
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7/14/2014  7:34 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:And nix there are reports the cap could hit $80mm after the tv deal.

Yeah I mean people need to get off this obsession with one players salary. That isn't going to stop us from doing anything. What kills you is contracts like STAT's and Bargs. Since we only have them for one season and maybe less, that isn't worth biotching about. NEW F'N DAY!!! We aren't in cap hell anymore and we have talent and picks in the future. This is about what Phil and his staff can do from here to put together a winning team using every option draft picks, trades, FA's alike.

Would you continue to feel this way if Melo needs shoulder surgery or tears an ACL in the first 40 games? The reason we don't like this type of contract is it then becomes an albatross for this franchise for the next 5 years. Melo at the max is being overpaid no matter how you spin it. Melo at the max and injured means we will never compete for anything and we won't be allowed to get better. Apparently going thru this with Amare clearly want enough to figure this out. We are paying someone who will only delivery a championship IF he buys in, IF he changes his style of play, IF he plays defense consistently, IF he gets enough support from the roster around it, IF he had another superstar on the team. Is it truly work the risk/reward trade off to pay a guy like that the max with that many IFs?


Amare was given his contract despite it not being able to be insured because of his knees. Doctors in Phoenix advised the Suns not to give amare a long term deal. Unlike Melo this offseason where any team with cap space wanted him, teams were not chasing amare with max deals. Only one guy was and he worked for the Knicks. If doctors said melo has a preexisting condition that most likely ends or limits his career then I think it is a bad deal. That hasn't happened. Phil could have pursued a sign and trade. He wanted melo.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
gunsnewing
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7/14/2014  7:40 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/14/2014  7:44 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:And nix there are reports the cap could hit $80mm after the tv deal.

Yeah I mean people need to get off this obsession with one players salary. That isn't going to stop us from doing anything. What kills you is contracts like STAT's and Bargs. Since we only have them for one season and maybe less, that isn't worth biotching about. NEW F'N DAY!!! We aren't in cap hell anymore and we have talent and picks in the future. This is about what Phil and his staff can do from here to put together a winning team using every option draft picks, trades, FA's alike.

Would you continue to feel this way if Melo needs shoulder surgery or tears an ACL in the first 40 games? The reason we don't like this type of contract is it then becomes an albatross for this franchise for the next 5 years. Melo at the max is being overpaid no matter how you spin it. Melo at the max and injured means we will never compete for anything and we won't be allowed to get better. Apparently going thru this with Amare clearly want enough to figure this out. We are paying someone who will only delivery a championship IF he buys in, IF he changes his style of play, IF he plays defense consistently, IF he gets enough support from the roster around it, IF he had another superstar on the team. Is it truly work the risk/reward trade off to pay a guy like that the max with that many IFs?

We put all our chips on Melo he better never get hurt or he's untradeable and his contract is an albatross like you said. It would be nothing new to the New York Knicks of course. Par for the course
fishmike
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7/14/2014  8:55 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:And nix there are reports the cap could hit $80mm after the tv deal.

Yeah I mean people need to get off this obsession with one players salary. That isn't going to stop us from doing anything. What kills you is contracts like STAT's and Bargs. Since we only have them for one season and maybe less, that isn't worth biotching about. NEW F'N DAY!!! We aren't in cap hell anymore and we have talent and picks in the future. This is about what Phil and his staff can do from here to put together a winning team using every option draft picks, trades, FA's alike.

Would you continue to feel this way if Melo needs shoulder surgery or tears an ACL in the first 40 games? The reason we don't like this type of contract is it then becomes an albatross for this franchise for the next 5 years. Melo at the max is being overpaid no matter how you spin it. Melo at the max and injured means we will never compete for anything and we won't be allowed to get better. Apparently going thru this with Amare clearly want enough to figure this out. We are paying someone who will only delivery a championship IF he buys in, IF he changes his style of play, IF he plays defense consistently, IF he gets enough support from the roster around him, IF he had another superstar on the team. Is it truly worth the risk/reward trade off to pay a guy like that the max with that many IFs?

IF any one of those iFs are not fulfilled we ate guaranteed to be mediocre for the next 5 years.

your right. We should focus on only signing players with no chance of ever getting hurt.

Whos been more durable? Melo or Derrick Rose? You cant plan around injuries and Melo has never missed time because of knees or ankles. When he did have to shut it down because of the shoulder he did rehab and I believe played through some pain to win ECF player of the month no?

Injuries is why you dont trade picks. If your big guns get hurt and disaster strikes the silver lining is you get more talent in the draft. Pretty straightforward.

"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
fishmike
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7/14/2014  8:57 AM
gunsnewing wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:And nix there are reports the cap could hit $80mm after the tv deal.

Yeah I mean people need to get off this obsession with one players salary. That isn't going to stop us from doing anything. What kills you is contracts like STAT's and Bargs. Since we only have them for one season and maybe less, that isn't worth biotching about. NEW F'N DAY!!! We aren't in cap hell anymore and we have talent and picks in the future. This is about what Phil and his staff can do from here to put together a winning team using every option draft picks, trades, FA's alike.

Would you continue to feel this way if Melo needs shoulder surgery or tears an ACL in the first 40 games? The reason we don't like this type of contract is it then becomes an albatross for this franchise for the next 5 years. Melo at the max is being overpaid no matter how you spin it. Melo at the max and injured means we will never compete for anything and we won't be allowed to get better. Apparently going thru this with Amare clearly want enough to figure this out. We are paying someone who will only delivery a championship IF he buys in, IF he changes his style of play, IF he plays defense consistently, IF he gets enough support from the roster around it, IF he had another superstar on the team. Is it truly work the risk/reward trade off to pay a guy like that the max with that many IFs?

We put all our chips on Melo he better never get hurt or he's untradeable and his contract is an albatross like you said. It would be nothing new to the New York Knicks of course. Par for the course

what chips are those?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
gunsnewing
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7/14/2014  9:04 AM
$122,000,000.00

What happens if Carmelo misses time? His contract becomes albatross but like I said par for the course for the Knicks. Fingers crossed I guess
fishmike
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7/14/2014  9:15 AM
gunsnewing wrote:$122,000,000.00

What happens if Carmelo misses time? His contract becomes albatross but like I said par for the course for the Knicks. Fingers crossed I guess

your cutting his checks now? Is he playing on surgically repaired joints? Everything in life has a downside. Everything has risk. This is why you dont trade draft picks right? How many future first rounders has Phil traded away yet?
"winning is more fun... then fun is fun" -Thibs
knicks1248
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7/14/2014  9:23 AM
meloshouldgo wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:And nix there are reports the cap could hit $80mm after the tv deal.

Yeah I mean people need to get off this obsession with one players salary. That isn't going to stop us from doing anything. What kills you is contracts like STAT's and Bargs. Since we only have them for one season and maybe less, that isn't worth biotching about. NEW F'N DAY!!! We aren't in cap hell anymore and we have talent and picks in the future. This is about what Phil and his staff can do from here to put together a winning team using every option draft picks, trades, FA's alike.

Would you continue to feel this way if Melo needs shoulder surgery or tears an ACL in the first 40 games? The reason we don't like this type of contract is it then becomes an albatross for this franchise for the next 5 years. Melo at the max is being overpaid no matter how you spin it. Melo at the max and injured means we will never compete for anything and we won't be allowed to get better. Apparently going thru this with Amare clearly want enough to figure this out. We are paying someone who will only delivery a championship IF he buys in, IF he changes his style of play, IF he plays defense consistently, IF he gets enough support from the roster around him, IF he had another superstar on the team. Is it truly worth the risk/reward trade off to pay a guy like that the max with that many IFs?

IF any one of those iFs are not fulfilled we ate guaranteed to be mediocre for the next 5 years.


None of those "IFS" are guaranteed from any athlete in any sport, Melo has obviously earned is max money or else they wouldn't be offering it. He's on a different level dude, he's top 3 at his position. You can spin it, and call it how you like, the facts will remain the same, he's not your ordinary player.

ES
Silverfuel
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7/14/2014  9:26 AM
fishmike wrote:
gunsnewing wrote:$122,000,000.00

What happens if Carmelo misses time? His contract becomes albatross but like I said par for the course for the Knicks. Fingers crossed I guess

your cutting his checks now? Is he playing on surgically repaired joints? Everything in life has a downside. Everything has risk. This is why you dont trade draft picks right? How many future first rounders has Phil traded away yet?

We should try to go for sure things. What we should do is draft a superstar like Derrick Rose and build around him. He will never get injured. Or we can draft a superstar like Dwight Howard and build around him. He will never leave.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
Silverfuel
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7/14/2014  9:28 AM
knicks1248 wrote:
meloshouldgo wrote:
nixluva wrote:
fishmike wrote:And nix there are reports the cap could hit $80mm after the tv deal.

Yeah I mean people need to get off this obsession with one players salary. That isn't going to stop us from doing anything. What kills you is contracts like STAT's and Bargs. Since we only have them for one season and maybe less, that isn't worth biotching about. NEW F'N DAY!!! We aren't in cap hell anymore and we have talent and picks in the future. This is about what Phil and his staff can do from here to put together a winning team using every option draft picks, trades, FA's alike.

Would you continue to feel this way if Melo needs shoulder surgery or tears an ACL in the first 40 games? The reason we don't like this type of contract is it then becomes an albatross for this franchise for the next 5 years. Melo at the max is being overpaid no matter how you spin it. Melo at the max and injured means we will never compete for anything and we won't be allowed to get better. Apparently going thru this with Amare clearly want enough to figure this out. We are paying someone who will only delivery a championship IF he buys in, IF he changes his style of play, IF he plays defense consistently, IF he gets enough support from the roster around him, IF he had another superstar on the team. Is it truly worth the risk/reward trade off to pay a guy like that the max with that many IFs?

IF any one of those iFs are not fulfilled we ate guaranteed to be mediocre for the next 5 years.


None of those "IFS" are guaranteed from any athlete in any sport, Melo has obviously earned is max money or else they wouldn't be offering it. He's on a different level dude, he's top 3 at his position. You can spin it, and call it how you like, the facts will remain the same, he's not your ordinary player.


Forget about rankings, he is a legit franchise talent. He is not Lebron but he is a beast that Chicago, Dallas, LA and Houston wanted to go all in on. Phil Jackson knows what he is doing. Let him get Melo some help and lets try and make a run.
A journey of a thousand miles begins with a single step.
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