NardDogNation wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:1) I didn't say his range was far off base.

2) Yes, it was off base.

3) Winning 40-45 games sucks in the NBA. That is being average. Yes that gives you a decent playoff spot but it also gives you a second round exit and IMO, that sucks. We need to build toward the future. We aren't going anywhere this season. Just suck it up and accept being bad for one season. We have an actual draft pick this coming season. Use it.

1.) By objecting to what mreinman said, you were implying that it was far enough off base to comment.

2.) Then what are you arguing about?

3.) No one was saying that winning 40-45 games was admirable. It is, however, a reality if all you have on the team is Melo.

If you are going to say "All you have is Melo" then why would you even imagine signing him to a large contract? Before 2010, all Cleveland had was LeBron. They made it the finals and were an EC power. I am not comparing Melo to LeBron, but for a max contract guy, we have to hold him to a higher standard then that... and he hasn't delivered that in the playoffs despite the fact that he has had talent around him.

My point: Let him go and move forward. Suck for this season and get the capspace and asset(s).

Your standard for the max seems to be LeBron, Durant or bust. Because outside of Durant, no one is in the class of LeBron and even Durant is still an inferior player to LeBron. If that's the case, I'd strongly disagree with you.

As for Melo, I've been against offering him the max because of the cap and the way it's structured. I've also been on record preferencing a rebuild instead of trying to build around Melo. 2015 and beyond is a fool's errand and we simply won't have the assets to improve the team from within. I'm not sure that what I've said in this thread has deviated from this position.

But for what it's worth, Melo is a max player on a good team IMO. He's done a pretty good job here with subpar players but "pretty good" isn't enough to keep us satisfied. It definitely isn't his fault though.

Maybe I am harsh but I think very few players in the league are worth the max.

As for Melo, I think he has done a very good job but I don't think he is worth the max and building a team around him is risky business. You have to have very particular players and if you are truely a max player, you should be able to play with anyone. Melo can't.

That is all

Allanfan20 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

Allanfan20 wrote:1) I didn't say his range was far off base.

2) Yes, it was off base.

3) Winning 40-45 games sucks in the NBA. That is being average. Yes that gives you a decent playoff spot but it also gives you a second round exit and IMO, that sucks. We need to build toward the future. We aren't going anywhere this season. Just suck it up and accept being bad for one season. We have an actual draft pick this coming season. Use it.

1.) By objecting to what mreinman said, you were implying that it was far enough off base to comment.

2.) Then what are you arguing about?

3.) No one was saying that winning 40-45 games was admirable. It is, however, a reality if all you have on the team is Melo.

If you are going to say "All you have is Melo" then why would you even imagine signing him to a large contract? Before 2010, all Cleveland had was LeBron. They made it the finals and were an EC power. I am not comparing Melo to LeBron, but for a max contract guy, we have to hold him to a higher standard then that... and he hasn't delivered that in the playoffs despite the fact that he has had talent around him.

My point: Let him go and move forward. Suck for this season and get the capspace and asset(s).

Your standard for the max seems to be LeBron, Durant or bust. Because outside of Durant, no one is in the class of LeBron and even Durant is still an inferior player to LeBron. If that's the case, I'd strongly disagree with you.

As for Melo, I've been against offering him the max because of the cap and the way it's structured. I've also been on record preferencing a rebuild instead of trying to build around Melo. 2015 and beyond is a fool's errand and we simply won't have the assets to improve the team from within. I'm not sure that what I've said in this thread has deviated from this position.

But for what it's worth, Melo is a max player on a good team IMO. He's done a pretty good job here with subpar players but "pretty good" isn't enough to keep us satisfied. It definitely isn't his fault though.

Maybe I am harsh but I think very few players in the league are worth the max.

As for Melo, I think he has done a very good job but I don't think he is worth the max and building a team around him is risky business. You have to have very particular players and if you are truely a max player, you should be able to play with anyone. Melo can't.

This is a game of fits and I disagree with the notion that "max (caliber) players" can play with anyone. If that were the case, Adrian Dantley would never have gotten traded from Isiah's Pistons and Gary Payton would've worked next to Kobe and Shaq.

Besides that point, I think you can build around Melo but like with any star, there needs to be a Robin. The only team that has bucked that trend has been the Dallas Mavericks in 2011 and Melo is no less a star than Dirk was.

Knicksfan wrote:Some are talking about Chicago signing Wade and getting Melo. Is that even possible?

Not unless they jettison Rose or both Wade and Melo take a dramatic pay cut.

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:Dude!! Wade? He can barely walk! Was Amare not enough of a lesson?

Two words: JR. Smith.

Need I say more?

You have so many wild trade scenarios but you are not seeing that Phil wants culture change not insane archaic knick type moves.

Really? Is that why we traded for Jose Calderon, in hopes of netting a star, Pau Gasol, for $3 million per year, to then have him recruit his brother, Marc Gasol? Seems like the same **** but with new flavor. Wade's a shadow of his former self but he can give you 60-ish games as one of the best players in the league. Aside from Melo, that is head and shoulders above anyone else we currently have on this roster.

Please provide proof that's why the trade was made. Did Phil speak on this and say that was his reasoning behind the trade? This isn't the first time you threw that out there. I would love to see you back it up with something

babyKnicks wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:Dude!! Wade? He can barely walk! Was Amare not enough of a lesson?

Two words: JR. Smith.

Need I say more?

You have so many wild trade scenarios but you are not seeing that Phil wants culture change not insane archaic knick type moves.

Really? Is that why we traded for Jose Calderon, in hopes of netting a star, Pau Gasol, for $3 million per year, to then have him recruit his brother, Marc Gasol? Seems like the same **** but with new flavor. Wade's a shadow of his former self but he can give you 60-ish games as one of the best players in the league. Aside from Melo, that is head and shoulders above anyone else we currently have on this roster.

Please provide proof that's why the trade was made. Did Phil speak on this and say that was his reasoning behind the trade? This isn't the first time you threw that out there. I would love to see you back it up with something

It has been mentioned in the press.

Not by anybody associated with franchise. Speculation by beat writers and pundits. The OP has been stating it as if it's gospel