holfresh wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:I just can't get excited for Love. Is he really a 1A star who can be the anchor for a team? To me he's more of a Carmelo type of star who you add to an "almost there" core that aready has star or two. Plus he plays absolutely horrendous D.

Id rather bide our time if Carmelo leaves, get a high pick in 2015 and use the space we have that year to get some quality pieces. If Love is there then, Ok, but if not in the words of Phil Jackson let's "move forward".

If Melo stays, a Love/Melo pairing seems problematic so it's a moot point.

Do we even have any assets anyway? He'd have to force his way to NY and only NY b

Then who are really stars..Is it just LeBron and Durant??..These are generational players...There are plenty of teams in the NBA that are competing with guys who are not considered 1A stars...Dallas won without a 1A star...SA doesn't have that 1A star...Memphis competes without a 1A star...

The idea that many here have that you can pick up a Durant and LeBron in the draft is crazy...

Did I say anywhere in my post that I was expecting to draft a 1A star in the draft? No. First off, what I was advocating in my post was predicated on Melo leaving (simply because I have a feeling he will walk--BTW, I would prefer he stay at a discount as long as the price is right and we have enough left over to conitue to build).

So let me write again what I meant cause obviously I didn't explain myself well enough:

1) From now until 2015 we are capped and have little flexibility. That being the case we might as well tank for a high pick instead of making panic moves for overpriced and/or bloated contacts that other teams are drying to dump. Try to trade guys like Chandler for assets and see if anyone wants anything else of ours, whatever. The point is w/o Melo we have the chance to be a really bad team and no amount of panic moves is going to make us a contender, as much as that fact sucks/is a bummer.

2) Once 2015 rolls around, we would then have tons of cap space to begin building a real team. At that point, Love may or may not be around. My point was IMO Love is not worth going after and/or giving up the few young assets we have NOW in lieu of 2015 AFTER we have a potential high lottery pick and an empty payroll sheet. If Love is available in 2015, great, take a shot and try to get him but preferably signed outright.

To recap: If we stand pat until 2015, we have to chance to be in a really good position to build a nice team. Going after Love now would mess that up and it's not worth messing up that potential situation for anyone less than a true top 3 superstar.

I fully understand if you wait around for a Durant or Lebron you'll be old and grey with nothing to show for it in all likelihood. I'll say it again: Whether Love is a 1A, B, C, D whatever is beside the point. He is NOT a Lebron/Durant level star and that would be the only "type" of player who would become available for me to think it'd be worth throwng away the potential of 2015 for. For the purposes of the Knicks, IMHO, the path forward IF Melo leaves is to avoid chasing Love if he's determined to leave Minny now. The prospect of a 2015 with a high pick plus the cap space to sign two max free agents, or 1 max + a couple mid level cogs, or whatever is a much better plan.

holfresh wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

H1AND1 wrote:I just can't get excited for Love. Is he really a 1A star who can be the anchor for a team? To me he's more of a Carmelo type of star who you add to an "almost there" core that aready has star or two. Plus he plays absolutely horrendous D.

Id rather bide our time if Carmelo leaves, get a high pick in 2015 and use the space we have that year to get some quality pieces. If Love is there then, Ok, but if not in the words of Phil Jackson let's "move forward".

If Melo stays, a Love/Melo pairing seems problematic so it's a moot point.

Do we even have any assets anyway? He'd have to force his way to NY and only NY b

Then who are really stars..Is it just LeBron and Durant??..These are generational players...There are plenty of teams in the NBA that are competing with guys who are not considered 1A stars...Dallas won without a 1A star...SA doesn't have that 1A star...Memphis competes without a 1A star...

The idea that many here have that you can pick up a Durant and LeBron in the draft is crazy...

Did I say anywhere in my post that I was expecting to draft a 1A star in the draft? No. First off, what I was advocating in my post was predicated on Melo leaving (simply because I have a feeling he will walk--BTW, I would prefer he stay at a discount as long as the price is right and we have enough left over to conitue to build).

So let me write again what I meant cause obviously I didn't explain myself well enough:

1) From now until 2015 we are capped and have little flexibility. That being the case we might as well tank for a high pick instead of making panic moves for overpriced and/or bloated contacts that other teams are drying to dump. Try to trade guys like Chandler for assets and see if anyone wants anything else of ours, whatever. The point is w/o Melo we have the chance to be a really bad team and no amount of panic moves is going to make us a contender, as much as that fact sucks/is a bummer.

2) Once 2015 rolls around, we would then have tons of cap space to begin building a real team. At that point, Love may or may not be around. My point was IMO Love is not worth going after and/or giving up the few young assets we have NOW in lieu of 2015 AFTER we have a potential high lottery pick and an empty payroll sheet. If Love is available in 2015, great, take a shot and try to get him but preferably signed outright.

To recap: If we stand pat until 2015, we have to chance to be in a really good position to build a nice team. Going after Love now would mess that up and it's not worth messing up that potential situation for anyone less than a true top 3 superstar.

I fully understand if you wait around for a Durant or Lebron you'll be old and grey with nothing to show for it in all likelihood. I'll say it again: Whether Love is a 1A, B, C, D whatever is beside the point. He is NOT a Lebron/Durant level star and that would be the only "type" of player who would become available for me to think it'd be worth throwng away the potential of 2015 for. For the purposes of the Knicks, IMHO, the path forward IF Melo leaves is to avoid chasing Love if he's determined to leave Minny now. The prospect of a 2015 with a high pick plus the cap space to sign two max free agents, or 1 max + a couple mid level cogs, or whatever is a much better plan.

I agree, I didn't see the part where u said if Melo should walk...My bad...

Nah no need to apologize, just wanted to make sure I was clear

And actually if Anthony were to stay at a discount we could still have a good situation in 2015. We'd have a lottery pick and a bunch of cap space to play with in 2015.

I just think Anthony is going to walk, personally.

His MAX deal would start somewhere between 15 - 17m, if he is willing to take less and form a BIG 3 in 2015 it would be even better, especially if we are signing him for cap space rather than trading for him while giving up our limited assets we already lack

If Melo wants more than what Kevin Love would be making

WHILE NOT

willing to take less in 2015-16 and/or 2016-17 for the better of the team so we can build around him with the talented needed to contend
while I do not care if he makes the MAX possible in the other years, I think we are better off letting him walk but preferably trading him rather than losing him for NOTHING, preferably a WESTERN team so we do not make our conference any tougher, IE Miami/Bulls

but with the new cap likely up 5m at about 62-63m, many teams will have the ability to sign him out right without the need to give up any draft picks to us, some might need to make some trades to free up more cap space and/or using the amnesty
They might not be willing to give him a MAX contract for him and the 4years but they likely will give him a hefty contract, though both Florida and Texas teams have an advantage without STATE tax, with Miami/Orlando and Dallas/Spur's/Rockets

Fortunately, The Bull's owner is cheap and is unlikely to let Boozer be amnestied, rather trading him for CA and surrending up Dunleavy JR, and some draft picks
However, I do not see them giving up Jimmy Butler, Noah, or Rose to us in a deal, unlikely to even give up Taj Gibson or/and Mirotic who has yet to play an NBA game

What I would do is trade for non-max secondary players to fill out the team. Try to pry Afflalo with a 1st and Hardaway Jr then try to get Ilyasova and Middleton with another 1st. That's two players for less than max money which would leave room to grab the right player in FA when STAT comes off the Cap.

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I don't think that going after Love or any other Max is not the key. The knicks really don't have the assets and can't get the assets needed unless Shump and Chandler have future 1st rd value. I think CHandler might but SHump is a question mark. IF they do I still wouldn't go after Love in a trade because Those future 1st will probably not be lottery picks and if I'm Minny I want young talent or unprotected 1st rd picks.

What I would do is trade for non-max secondary players to fill out the team. Try to pry Afflalo with a 1st and Hardaway Jr then try to get Ilyasova and Middleton with another 1st. That's two players for less than max money which would leave room to grab the right player in FA when STAT comes off the Cap.

You think that Affalo is worth Hardaway + a first??

Absolutely. I'm skeptical that the Magic feel that way though.

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I don't think that going after Love or any other Max is not the key. The knicks really don't have the assets and can't get the assets needed unless Shump and Chandler have future 1st rd value. I think CHandler might but SHump is a question mark. IF they do I still wouldn't go after Love in a trade because Those future 1st will probably not be lottery picks and if I'm Minny I want young talent or unprotected 1st rd picks.

What I would do is trade for non-max secondary players to fill out the team. Try to pry Afflalo with a 1st and Hardaway Jr then try to get Ilyasova and Middleton with another 1st. That's two players for less than max money which would leave room to grab the right player in FA when STAT comes off the Cap.

You think that Affalo is worth Hardaway + a first??

Absolutely. I'm skeptical that the Magic feel that way though.

I don't agree on this one. Timmy proved he can score and shoot at a young age. Afflalo is what 28 or 29 -- 5 to 6 years older on a bigger deal.

I think it's the other away around --- if Orlando wants Timmy we get Aaron and the #1. At least IMO.

LivingLegend wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I don't think that going after Love or any other Max is not the key. The knicks really don't have the assets and can't get the assets needed unless Shump and Chandler have future 1st rd value. I think CHandler might but SHump is a question mark. IF they do I still wouldn't go after Love in a trade because Those future 1st will probably not be lottery picks and if I'm Minny I want young talent or unprotected 1st rd picks.

What I would do is trade for non-max secondary players to fill out the team. Try to pry Afflalo with a 1st and Hardaway Jr then try to get Ilyasova and Middleton with another 1st. That's two players for less than max money which would leave room to grab the right player in FA when STAT comes off the Cap.

You think that Affalo is worth Hardaway + a first??

Absolutely. I'm skeptical that the Magic feel that way though.

I don't agree on this one. Timmy proved he can score and shoot at a young age. Afflalo is what 28 or 29 -- 5 to 6 years older on a bigger deal.

I think it's the other away around --- if Orlando wants Timmy we get Aaron and the #1. At least IMO.

That's not how things work when you're trading for a guy that could be an all-star on a reasonable contract. Loul Deng's trade is the market value we'd have to meet for Afflalo. That package included multiple picks from the Cavs and an expiring contract. It's why I'm skeptical that we can pursue Afflalo and keep Melo and Tyson.

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I don't think that going after Love or any other Max is not the key. The knicks really don't have the assets and can't get the assets needed unless Shump and Chandler have future 1st rd value. I think CHandler might but SHump is a question mark. IF they do I still wouldn't go after Love in a trade because Those future 1st will probably not be lottery picks and if I'm Minny I want young talent or unprotected 1st rd picks.

What I would do is trade for non-max secondary players to fill out the team. Try to pry Afflalo with a 1st and Hardaway Jr then try to get Ilyasova and Middleton with another 1st. That's two players for less than max money which would leave room to grab the right player in FA when STAT comes off the Cap.

You think that Affalo is worth Hardaway + a first??

Absolutely. I'm skeptical that the Magic feel that way though.

That is basically giving up 2 number 1's for Affalo. I would never do that for a guard who does not get a lot of assists and/or rebounds. And he had one good playoffs but he was pretty bad all the rest of them.

I would not do it for Deng either. Chicago was smart for getting rid of him for value.

mreinman wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

mreinman wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:I don't think that going after Love or any other Max is not the key. The knicks really don't have the assets and can't get the assets needed unless Shump and Chandler have future 1st rd value. I think CHandler might but SHump is a question mark. IF they do I still wouldn't go after Love in a trade because Those future 1st will probably not be lottery picks and if I'm Minny I want young talent or unprotected 1st rd picks.

What I would do is trade for non-max secondary players to fill out the team. Try to pry Afflalo with a 1st and Hardaway Jr then try to get Ilyasova and Middleton with another 1st. That's two players for less than max money which would leave room to grab the right player in FA when STAT comes off the Cap.

You think that Affalo is worth Hardaway + a first??

Absolutely. I'm skeptical that the Magic feel that way though.

That is basically giving up 2 number 1's for Affalo. I would never do that for a guard who does not get a lot of assists and/or rebounds. And he had one good playoffs but he was pretty bad all the rest of them.

I would not do it for Deng either. Chicago was smart for getting rid of him for value.

I don't see Orlando getting too excited about a deal with just THJ as the centerpiece. They already have Oladipo and a decent set of young prospects. I think they're looking for young PG and power forward depth. At the same time, I'm not too thrilled with the idea of adding another two guard at the cost of giving away another first round pick. Two-guard is position we could upgrade, but it's way down the list of priorities. We need to find a decent point guard from somewhere.