knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:knicks1248 wrote:nixluva wrote:You guys are overstating the point about shooting the 3. The thing with the Triangle is to create high % looks and I think that you don't HAVE to shoot 3's if you're running your plays right. Get the ball up the court quickly and start your sets early so you have time to run thru your progressions and keep the defense moving. Shuan would be more of the Ron Harper version of Phil PG. Ron Harper was NEVER a good 3pt shooter for Phil. His role tho was still very important and it's how I see Shuan playing.The point of Livingston is to have a big guard who can easily make the entry pass and when he cuts he's a legit threat to score inside and draw defenders. Then you also have another Post threat in the Triple Post offense which is the original name of the Triangle. It's about creating as many mismatches as possible and in that regard Livingston would give you a guard the size of a forward who can post as well as drive. You also get more length on D. The 3 is a safety valve and not a feature like in the SSOL or other spread offenses. The Triangle is more about shots closer to the basket and the space is to allow that to happen and force the defense to cover more ground on every threat inside or out.
That conner and elbow 3 is open on a regular in the triangle, kerr made his leaving from mostly those two spots in the triangle, along with harper, bj armstrong, paxon, fisher, horry, even kobe and mj loved that elbow 3 the list is endless.
I here what your saying Nix, but you have to have serious 3 point threats to keep defenses honest, to spread the floor, which is key in any offense let alone the triangle.
I'm not saying the 3 isn't important. Of course it is. I have been pointing out that Phil has always had 3pt shooters on his squads, but you have to also recognize that he had Harper in the mix for YEARS and it worked. We have THJ and I fully expect that we'll have enough 3pt shooting as long as Kerr and Phil are here. However, defense is just as important and that is a huge part of why Phil likes bigger teams and a ball handler like Livingston would make perfect sense. Phil has had those big ball handlers on all of his teams. Guys like Shump and Livingston would fit into what Phil wants to do defensively too.
Lets stop believing shump can ever be a real pg or even a part time one. We saw this guy turn fast breaks into half court plays more than any player in the league. The euro step in which we saw him practice 2 summers ago, was completly non exsisting, IQ, ball handling, avg at best. Livinginston has always been a solid ball handler, but he perimeter game is ugly and depended on the make up of the rest of the team, i don't see him being a +.
The more you post the clearer it becomes that you don't really understand how the guards in Phil's offense operate. They aren't ball dominant. Therefore it makes guards with mediocre ball skills much more functional since that part of the game is underused in the Triangle. Guys that you dump on will flourish in the Triangle because the other things they do well will be maximized and they don't have to run the offense like Kidd or CP3. None of phil's PG's have been huge assist leaders. He's had a mix of pure 3pt shooters and big defensive guards like Ron Harper. Ron Harper didn't really shoot the 3, much like Livingston, so you're wrong in your take on how he'd fit in this offense.
YOu need to learn the basics of the Triangle before you start talking cuz you clearly don't understand it. The very 1st thing the PG in the Triangle does is GIVE THE BALL UP!!! Do you get that??? He passes and cuts. There is no typical PG ball pounding and probing. It's a motion and ball movement offense. That will fit Shumps abilities better. What you want is good passing Forwards and Bigs.
The system's most important feature is the sideline triangle created by the center, who stands at the low post, the forward at the wing, and the guard at the corner. The team's other guard stands at the top of the key and the weak-side forward is on the weak-side high post — together forming the "two-man game." The goal of the offense is to fill those five spots, which creates good spacing between players and allows each one to pass to four teammates. Every pass and cut has a purpose and everything is dictated by the defense.
None of those basic principles requires a PG with PnR skills or amazing handles or incredible court vision. That's why so many unathletic guards with pedestrian handle and court vision have been successful in the Triangle. All they need is the ability to make basic short passes and make good cuts. Being able to hit the 3 is needed but really they don't have to be insanely great, that's a plus. Thing is we have THJ who can hit the 3 and Shump can hit the 3 enough as can JR. It's the other part that you also must pay attention to. The CUTS will be important and Shump, JR and THJ can all move VERY WELL. I'm betting Phil and Kerr would do wonders for Shumps game. I think Livingston would fit in perfectly.
