dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:wasnt Karl also the coach of that Sonics team that almost won 70 games and got bounced in the first round by the 8th seeded Mutumbo's Nuggets? Thats the coach your talking about right? that Sea team had what? 3 HOFs and other all-stars and your pumping up his playoff record?

But i will break it down more for you fish...

What I see you broke down for me is that a lottery franchise added a perennial all star and hall of fame player and went from the lottery to winning 50ish games every year. Pretty clear thats what happened.

lets check the facts bro
Karls's Sonics: 63wins first round exit. 57 wins first rount exit and the two years after their one good run to the finals they got spanked in the 2nd round. But yea... Detlef, Gary Payton, Sam Perkins, Kemp, Nate McMillon, Gill... that team was deep and loaded but keep telling yourself Karl did a great job. Wow.. in 6 years he took a team with a HOF PG and a bunch of all stars on one good run.

How about you explain to me how Kevin Garnett was a playoff loser (when he actually made it in) for a decade? Did he finally find good coaching or did he actually join a better team? Please tell.. I dont seem to understand how this team thing works. Your facts seem to help. Bro.

well lets review once again:

he had turdbury as a running mate for several of those early seasons-- you can start there.
then he had billups before billups learned to tighten up his game in terms of efficiency.
then really no pg at all in 2002-3
cassell and spree he makes it to the conference finals and then cassell declined next season.
then anthony carter-- scrubby pg but better than felton
then another season in the point guard wilderness
then a trade to boston.

garnett's wolves teams did not have as much talent as melo's denver teams. do the research and prove that this is not true.

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:If Melo leaves its not a big deal. Now if the Knicks were a playoff team and he left after the season it would be a big deal. The fact that he failed to get his team into the playoffs is a big giant asterisk on his free agency. My only hope is that the Knicks sign and trade Melo to the Lakers for their number one pick and draft Dante Exum. I think the Phil's system works better with a shooting guard. Probably develop him into a top caliber player in the league.

so you hang the Knicks failure to reach the playoffs on Melo? Thats on him?

his teams tend to fall into indulging his poor habits and flaws. his failures here in new york will not go unnoticed across the league. he is really a third option, maybe a second option on a good day.

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

Vmart wrote:If Melo leaves its not a big deal. Now if the Knicks were a playoff team and he left after the season it would be a big deal. The fact that he failed to get his team into the playoffs is a big giant asterisk on his free agency. My only hope is that the Knicks sign and trade Melo to the Lakers for their number one pick and draft Dante Exum. I think the Phil's system works better with a shooting guard. Probably develop him into a top caliber player in the league.

so you hang the Knicks failure to reach the playoffs on Melo? Thats on him?

his teams tend to fall into indulging his poor habits and flaws. his failures here in new york will not go unnoticed across the league. he is really a third option, maybe a second option on a good day.

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:wasnt Karl also the coach of that Sonics team that almost won 70 games and got bounced in the first round by the 8th seeded Mutumbo's Nuggets? Thats the coach your talking about right? that Sea team had what? 3 HOFs and other all-stars and your pumping up his playoff record?

But i will break it down more for you fish...

What I see you broke down for me is that a lottery franchise added a perennial all star and hall of fame player and went from the lottery to winning 50ish games every year. Pretty clear thats what happened.

lets check the facts bro
Karls's Sonics: 63wins first round exit. 57 wins first rount exit and the two years after their one good run to the finals they got spanked in the 2nd round. But yea... Detlef, Gary Payton, Sam Perkins, Kemp, Nate McMillon, Gill... that team was deep and loaded but keep telling yourself Karl did a great job. Wow.. in 6 years he took a team with a HOF PG and a bunch of all stars on one good run.

How about you explain to me how Kevin Garnett was a playoff loser (when he actually made it in) for a decade? Did he finally find good coaching or did he actually join a better team? Please tell.. I dont seem to understand how this team thing works. Your facts seem to help. Bro.

well lets review once again:

he had turdbury as a running mate for several of those early seasons-- you can start there.
then he had billups before billups learned to tighten up his game in terms of efficiency.
then really no pg at all in 2002-3
cassell and spree he makes it to the conference finals and then cassell declined next season.
then anthony carter-- scrubby pg but better than felton
then another season in the point guard wilderness
then a trade to boston.

garnett's wolves teams did not have as much talent as melo's denver teams. do the research and prove that this is not true.

oh I have. Part of the reason Melo's teams ALWAYS made the playoffs while KG's did NOT. But your making more excuses for KG. Bottom line? He failed and was a bigger playoff loser than Melo

garnett has been a better player than melo. do you agree with that assessment?

KG failed to elevate the play of his team, failed to get his team out of the first round, and couldnt win a playoff series without Spree and Cassell to carry the scoring load. And his attitude is terrible and its been documented.

How many last minute games did we lose because of melo, almost every one of them. Then the media fuels this bs speculation everytime melo says something about the bulls.

There's been talks about TOM Thibs coaching the knicks next season, why doesn't the media lean there trump up story that way instead saying melo to the bulls is a automatic.

This teams nightmarish season, falls on woodson, melo, felton and JR, and KMART.

nixluva wrote:Melo is not the real problem despite his desire to go ISO, which wouldn't be the end of the world if we had a team around him and an offense that involves some off ball motion. This is the change the Knicks need most. In the NBA the difference between teams is not that great. Aside from needing a Top Tier player you also need a roster that makes sense and has the needed balance and scheme to enhance the overall team play. You could take the same roster and put in a better scheme and this team would win a lot more games. Now if you also improve the team with the right player or two then we'd be talking about a contender.

We will get a chance to see this roster with better coaching, scheme and perhaps a glue type player or 2 that can make it all work at a higher level. Better understanding of how to play the game on a higher level is going to be key and that is what Phil is going to be looking to do. Better fundamentals and overall scheme will make a HUGE difference. Just watching this team there were so many times where this team lost simply due to a lack of fundamentals and a sound BB scheme. Poor coaching and on the floor decision making was often the real detriment as opposed to needing more talent. Of course we want to improve the talent but you also have to improve the base level of BB acumen and IQ. We've been playing dumb BB and selfish BB that doesn't maximize the talent we have already.

nixluva wrote:Melo is not the real problem despite his desire to go ISO, which wouldn't be the end of the world if we had a team around him and an offense that involves some off ball motion. This is the change the Knicks need most. In the NBA the difference between teams is not that great. Aside from needing a Top Tier player you also need a roster that makes sense and has the needed balance and scheme to enhance the overall team play. You could take the same roster and put in a better scheme and this team would win a lot more games. Now if you also improve the team with the right player or two then we'd be talking about a contender.

We will get a chance to see this roster with better coaching, scheme and perhaps a glue type player or 2 that can make it all work at a higher level. Better understanding of how to play the game on a higher level is going to be key and that is what Phil is going to be looking to do. Better fundamentals and overall scheme will make a HUGE difference. Just watching this team there were so many times where this team lost simply due to a lack of fundamentals and a sound BB scheme. Poor coaching and on the floor decision making was often the real detriment as opposed to needing more talent. Of course we want to improve the talent but you also have to improve the base level of BB acumen and IQ. We've been playing dumb BB and selfish BB that doesn't maximize the talent we have already.

his arrival here in the first place made the roster make no sense. they gutted the team and could not figure it out. the team has been in chaos and disarray thanks to the melo trade. "surrounding" such a flawed-- and redundant player-- was a non-starter. we should have stood pat in 2010-2011 and gotten an upgrade at point guard. tha was surely walsh's plan, since he had felton on a cheap two-year audition deal. we would have been in much better shape than we are now, waiting for some cooky draft night trades and then 2015 free agency.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:Melo is not the real problem despite his desire to go ISO, which wouldn't be the end of the world if we had a team around him and an offense that involves some off ball motion. This is the change the Knicks need most. In the NBA the difference between teams is not that great. Aside from needing a Top Tier player you also need a roster that makes sense and has the needed balance and scheme to enhance the overall team play. You could take the same roster and put in a better scheme and this team would win a lot more games. Now if you also improve the team with the right player or two then we'd be talking about a contender.

We will get a chance to see this roster with better coaching, scheme and perhaps a glue type player or 2 that can make it all work at a higher level. Better understanding of how to play the game on a higher level is going to be key and that is what Phil is going to be looking to do. Better fundamentals and overall scheme will make a HUGE difference. Just watching this team there were so many times where this team lost simply due to a lack of fundamentals and a sound BB scheme. Poor coaching and on the floor decision making was often the real detriment as opposed to needing more talent. Of course we want to improve the talent but you also have to improve the base level of BB acumen and IQ. We've been playing dumb BB and selfish BB that doesn't maximize the talent we have already.

his arrival here in the first place made the roster make no sense. they gutted the team and could not figure it out. the team has been in chaos and disarray thanks to the melo trade. "surrounding" such a flawed-- and redundant player-- was a non-starter. we should have stood pat in 2010-2011 and gotten an upgrade at point guard. tha was surely walsh's plan, since he had felton on a cheap two-year audition deal. we would have been in much better shape than we are now, waiting for some cooky draft night trades and then 2015 free agency.

It's really hard to put a team together that can win a title without one of the top players in the league and a scheme that maximizes the role players on your team. We already have Melo who I believe is talented enough to help a team win in the post season, but the big IF is having the right coach and leadership, the right balance of players that make sense together. We need a cultural shift to TEAM WORK as opposed to what we've had. IMO getting rid of Melo doesn't really solve any of the teams pressing issues. If only creates a major one. Who exactly do you replace him with that has the talent to take over when a team of role players needs that star player? It's not like they grow those players on trees.

I'd take my chances with Melo and Phil rather than just hoping we can eventually find a lead player and put a team around him. IMO if we had replaced Felton with a more capable player that would do more than getting rid of Melo. Just think about how Kidd was able to help this team despite losing most of his physical skills. He did it with his mind more than anything else. We need a younger Ball mover who can lead the team on the floor. We need the kind of scheme that Phil is espousing that is based on Team Ball.

TeamBall wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:I totally agree with fish's Point of view.

How many last minute games did we lose because of melo, almost every one of them. Then the media fuels this bs speculation everytime melo says something about the bulls.

There's been talks about TOM Thibs coaching the knicks next season, why doesn't the media lean there trump up story that way instead saying melo to the bulls is a automatic.

This teams nightmarish season, falls on woodson, melo, felton and JR, and KMART.

Because of Melo?

Partly because of him but mostly due to the coach his end quarter playcalling was the worst I have seen

Careerwise he has been one of the top players at last-second shots

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:He was a big part of last season for the most part except a few stretches in the regular season and playoffs

Oh I agree but he wasn't half the win total.

Would have been nice if he actually contributed in the playoffs