Bonn1997 wrote:Yeah, we could have Chris Paul but giving Amare $100 mil (using up a third of our total cap space on waste) would still be a disaster.

Not sure we could have gotten him but if yes, he could have been instead of Amare, Melo or (Tyson + Amare)

I would have taken:

Melo + Paul

far faster than

Amare + Paul (because this essentially meant Jefries + Paul instead)

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I just sorted the PFs and saw who was ranked 89th out of the league's 89 PFs!

Haha! That is bloody hilarious!

But we did not trade any players for him so who cares if we paid him 100 million.

I guess that Dk will regret this wonderful new and upcoming advanced metric

since when is having the truth revealed about nba basketball players regrettable? you would have resigned david lee as the gm, right?

The truth? That Amare is ranked 89th out of 89 power forwards? If you are okay with that then its ok.

I am not a GM and would not be good at it. Why does everybody think they'd be or are a great GM? Its hard to be a GM. You need to be far more talented and form than knowledgeable fans.

I was really torn on Lee and was happy it was not me making that decision. Looks like as usual, the knicks made the wrong one.

Amare, I was NOT torn on. I hated that move from the moment I heard about it. How stupid can we be.

Maybe if we gave him 60/3 (his next best and only other offer) I could have swallowed it. I really can't believe people who claim they understand the sport and defend this.

you would have a point if we lived in a vacuum or fantasyland.

but the purchase of amare's services was done in the real world and with very specific extenuating circumstances.

where it went wrong, since time flows forward and causes precede effects, is when carmelo anthony was brought in instead of waiting for an elite point guard to become available.

Yes, because of course, in the MeloHate space/time continuum of the real world, Stat breaking down from a 1/2 season of overuse at the 5 was obviously Carmelo Anthony's plan all along. Carmelo is also the cause to the effect of Stat's knee problems, which were of course, going to self-heal with the signing of an elite point guard, who would then have led us to a chip in a Melo-less world by turning Landry Fields into MJ 2, Gallo into Larry Bird, and Moz into the Great White Shaq.

Reality. SMH

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:here is list of the league. note that tyson chandler is ranked 28th and carmelo anthony is ranked 52nd.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Note that Amare Statmachine is ranked 428 out of 435 players in league! Gotta love RPM's.

Its very hard to choose an advanced stat that fits an agenda for a specific player because in the end it will expose others who you believe in.

If you would look at advanced stats first and then judge players off the results, you would not fall into these traps.

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:here is list of the league. note that tyson chandler is ranked 28th and carmelo anthony is ranked 52nd.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Note that Amare Statmachine is ranked 428 out of 435 players in league! Gotta love RPM's.

Its very hard to choose an advanced stat that fits an agenda for a specific player because in the end it will expose others who you believe in.

If you would look at advanced stats first and then judge players off the results, you would not fall into these traps.

It is amazing the drop off from 27 (Gasol) to 28 (Tyson). Watching Gasol last night against the Heat it doesn't seem like Tyson should be anywhere near him on any list. Maybe I miss something in the box score that you don't see when you watch games

The drop off is meaningless and so is this stat.

Gasol is actually having a down year this year. I am sure that this does not help memphis.

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:here is list of the league. note that tyson chandler is ranked 28th and carmelo anthony is ranked 52nd.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Note that Amare Statmachine is ranked 428 out of 435 players in league! Gotta love RPM's.

Its very hard to choose an advanced stat that fits an agenda for a specific player because in the end it will expose others who you believe in.

If you would look at advanced stats first and then judge players off the results, you would not fall into these traps.

It is amazing the drop off from 27 (Gasol) to 28 (Tyson). Watching Gasol last night against the Heat it doesn't seem like Tyson should be anywhere near him on any list. Maybe I miss something in the box score that you don't see when you watch games

The drop off is meaningless and so is this stat.

Gasol is actually having a down year this year. I am sure that this does not help memphis.

How do you know the stat is meaningless?

Because any stat that has such an efficient player like Stat 7 spots away from the last out of 435 has to be meaningless.

if you accept rpm as:
RPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. RPM takes into account teammates, opponents, coaches and additional factors

i can see how various players on the knicks could fall off the chart for mediocre to poor d. not sure what the last sentence really means and what are the additional factors? im even too lazy to google this (or dont care, dunno).

sidsanders wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:here is list of the league. note that tyson chandler is ranked 28th and carmelo anthony is ranked 52nd.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Note that Amare Statmachine is ranked 428 out of 435 players in league! Gotta love RPM's.

Its very hard to choose an advanced stat that fits an agenda for a specific player because in the end it will expose others who you believe in.

If you would look at advanced stats first and then judge players off the results, you would not fall into these traps.

It is amazing the drop off from 27 (Gasol) to 28 (Tyson). Watching Gasol last night against the Heat it doesn't seem like Tyson should be anywhere near him on any list. Maybe I miss something in the box score that you don't see when you watch games

The drop off is meaningless and so is this stat.

Gasol is actually having a down year this year. I am sure that this does not help memphis.

How do you know the stat is meaningless?

Because any stat that has such an efficient player like Stat 7 spots away from the last out of 435 has to be meaningless.

if you accept rpm as:
RPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. RPM takes into account teammates, opponents, coaches and additional factors

i can see how various players on the knicks could fall off the chart for mediocre to poor d. not sure what the last sentence really means and what are the additional factors? im even too lazy to google this (or dont care, dunno).

It is a proprietary formula. PERFECT!

Seems to rate steals really highly. Maybe we are valuing players all wrong and Iggy really is better than Durant and Melo is really better than Paul George and Amare is really the bottom of 435 players.

Maybe they are actually onto something. You never know, too early to tell.

I just can't see how they would roll out a statistic (selling it as the "next best thing that encompasses everything") with a proprietary formula that has glaring alarms off the bat based on other advanced stat and simple eye tests, and not expect a ton of suspicion.

At least there will be new material to be debated and written about.

mreinman wrote:

Dagger wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:here is list of the league. note that tyson chandler is ranked 28th and carmelo anthony is ranked 52nd.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Note that Amare Statmachine is ranked 428 out of 435 players in league! Gotta love RPM's.

Its very hard to choose an advanced stat that fits an agenda for a specific player because in the end it will expose others who you believe in.

If you would look at advanced stats first and then judge players off the results, you would not fall into these traps.

It is amazing the drop off from 27 (Gasol) to 28 (Tyson). Watching Gasol last night against the Heat it doesn't seem like Tyson should be anywhere near him on any list. Maybe I miss something in the box score that you don't see when you watch games

The drop off is meaningless and so is this stat.

Gasol is actually having a down year this year. I am sure that this does not help memphis.

How do you know the stat is meaningless?

Because any stat that has such an efficient player like Stat 7 spots away from the last out of 435 has to be meaningless.

When you consider he is a top 5 worst defender in the league, a poor rebounder for his size and athleticism, and a blackhole when it comes to assisting his teammates the ranking seems less far-fetched.

Wow! So we are paying 100 million bucks to the worst ranked player in the league (#428 or 435) - (Ray Felton - 141, Carmelo - 52)!

At least we did not give up assets for him.

Well they're all overpaid, including felton who gets paid very little. When you watch Amare play and consider how many points he both directly and indirectly surrenders through his absolute lack of defensive knowledge and awareness it is not surprising that any variation of a plus-minus stat will be particularly damning for him.

Scoring 20 to give up 30, as the adage goes...

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:here is list of the league. note that tyson chandler is ranked 28th and carmelo anthony is ranked 52nd.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Note that Amare Statmachine is ranked 428 out of 435 players in league! Gotta love RPM's.

Its very hard to choose an advanced stat that fits an agenda for a specific player because in the end it will expose others who you believe in.

If you would look at advanced stats first and then judge players off the results, you would not fall into these traps.

It is amazing the drop off from 27 (Gasol) to 28 (Tyson). Watching Gasol last night against the Heat it doesn't seem like Tyson should be anywhere near him on any list. Maybe I miss something in the box score that you don't see when you watch games

The drop off is meaningless and so is this stat.

Gasol is actually having a down year this year. I am sure that this does not help memphis.

How do you know the stat is meaningless?

Because any stat that has such an efficient player like Stat 7 spots away from the last out of 435 has to be meaningless.

if you accept rpm as:
RPM: Player's estimated on-court impact on team performance, measured in net point differential per 100 offensive and defensive possessions. RPM takes into account teammates, opponents, coaches and additional factors

i can see how various players on the knicks could fall off the chart for mediocre to poor d. not sure what the last sentence really means and what are the additional factors? im even too lazy to google this (or dont care, dunno).

It is a proprietary formula. PERFECT!

Seems to rate steals really highly. Maybe we are valuing players all wrong and Iggy really is better than Durant and Melo is really better than Paul George and Amare is really the bottom of 435 players.

Maybe they are actually onto something. You never know, too early to tell.

I just can't see how they would roll out a statistic (selling it as the "next best thing that encompasses everything") with a proprietary formula that has glaring alarms off the bat based on other advanced stat and simple eye tests, and not expect a ton of suspicion.

At least there will be new material to be debated and written about.

I assume and hope more info. about it will be released but it's just an adjustment to the plus/minus stat. Based on the description, it would have nothing to do with weighing steals. It says it weighs how the team does while you're on vs. off the floor after taking into account teammate performance. Considering that Amare's actual +/- is -8.2 per 48 min, it shouldn't be that surprising that the adjusted (or "real") +/- is pretty bad too.

It's not an adjustment to plus minus, its an adjustment to Adjusted Plus Minus which is trashed by Berri.

I think it does highly weigh steals. I read a number of articles that stated this belief explaining/inferring why Rubio was so high.

It is being touted as a stat that will (finally) reward defense and the newest, hotest absolute combined stat.

We will see when the info gets released.

Dagger wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:here is list of the league. note that tyson chandler is ranked 28th and carmelo anthony is ranked 52nd.

http://espn.go.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/sort/RPM

Note that Amare Statmachine is ranked 428 out of 435 players in league! Gotta love RPM's.

Its very hard to choose an advanced stat that fits an agenda for a specific player because in the end it will expose others who you believe in.

If you would look at advanced stats first and then judge players off the results, you would not fall into these traps.

It is amazing the drop off from 27 (Gasol) to 28 (Tyson). Watching Gasol last night against the Heat it doesn't seem like Tyson should be anywhere near him on any list. Maybe I miss something in the box score that you don't see when you watch games

The drop off is meaningless and so is this stat.

Gasol is actually having a down year this year. I am sure that this does not help memphis.

How do you know the stat is meaningless?

Because any stat that has such an efficient player like Stat 7 spots away from the last out of 435 has to be meaningless.

When you consider he is a top 5 worst defender in the league, a poor rebounder for his size and athleticism, and a blackhole when it comes to assisting his teammates the ranking seems less far-fetched.

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

dk7th wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I just sorted the PFs and saw who was ranked 89th out of the league's 89 PFs!

Haha! That is bloody hilarious!

But we did not trade any players for him so who cares if we paid him 100 million.

I guess that Dk will regret this wonderful new and upcoming advanced metric

since when is having the truth revealed about nba basketball players regrettable? you would have resigned david lee as the gm, right?

The truth? That Amare is ranked 89th out of 89 power forwards? If you are okay with that then its ok.

I am not a GM and would not be good at it. Why does everybody think they'd be or are a great GM? Its hard to be a GM. You need to be far more talented and form than knowledgeable fans.

I was really torn on Lee and was happy it was not me making that decision. Looks like as usual, the knicks made the wrong one.

Amare, I was NOT torn on. I hated that move from the moment I heard about it. How stupid can we be.

Maybe if we gave him 60/3 (his next best and only other offer) I could have swallowed it. I really can't believe people who claim they understand the sport and defend this.

you would have a point if we lived in a vacuum or fantasyland.

but the purchase of amare's services was done in the real world and with very specific extenuating circumstances.

where it went wrong, since time flows forward and causes precede effects, is when carmelo anthony was brought in instead of waiting for an elite point guard to become available.

Yes, because of course, in the MeloHate space/time continuum of the real world, Stat breaking down from a 1/2 season of overuse at the 5 was obviously Carmelo Anthony's plan all along. Carmelo is also the cause to the effect of Stat's knee problems, which were of course, going to self-heal with the signing of an elite point guard, who would then have led us to a chip in a Melo-less world by turning Landry Fields into MJ 2, Gallo into Larry Bird, and Moz into the Great White Shaq.

Reality. SMH

it really is true that you never talk basketball. it's weird

Great retort. Very insightful. Maybe you can talk more non-basketball about my non-basketball posts.

Hopefully, your little brother will come along and +1 you soon.