dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:I voted for 20-24 million. It keeps him on par with players similar to him around the league. Players have to take less to play in NY under the current set up which is not tax adjusted. It is unrealistic to ask him to take 14 and effectively get paid less than players like D'Andre Jordan. 20-24 is the only realistic number he can take to play here. If he wants to take less on paper only (i.e. Lebron, Bosh, Howard), he can sign with Houston or Dallas if they can clear space. They need to tax adjust the cap to eliminate this loop hole. Howard may have wanted out of LA but saving 14% in tax by going to Hou makes it easier to leave the extra money LA can offer on the table.

+1
the voice of reason. I voted the same, but will hope against hope that someone of substance will want to come here and Melo will take even less than my vote to make it happen.

I believe Melo has enough brain matter to realize the end of those knees is near. Playing in Houston or in LA without Blake or D'andre is not getting him a ring. Kobe is toast. And just about anywhere else is more of a pipedream than NYC.

He will make his bed here, and PJax is smart enough to know that 68 + 5 year plan does not equate to a great exit legacy with this owner and no experience at draft building. He needs Melo and Melo needs him for this to work for either one of them.

Like fish is saying, where you gonna get this production?

replacing melo's type of production is like addition through subtraction. he makes others around him worse and is a miserable failure in the playoffs. so removing him should not be as big of a problem as you are making it out to be.

in case you haven't realized-- the knicks will be rebuilding. if he doesn't want to stick around for a rebuild then he should leave. he will be reviled forever for doing so but he made this bed.

In case you haven't read things lately, the only quote regarding direction we have from PJax the Saviour is "getting talent". It isn't "getting yoots".
Or "amassing draft picks while I turn 70 and feel the rest of my bone structure deteriorating". He's going to go starphucking. Welcome to NYC.

Yeah, Melo made this bed. 3 maybe 4 years in the playoffs after a decade plus drought. Some of the best individual performances since Ewing. What a sheethole experience he's left us so far.

How exactly, has Melo made THJr worse? Ray Felton is worse because of Melo? How's Stat look to you lately? Worse? ChanglingFluBoy is worse because of Melo? JR is worse? Are you seriously going to blame the flaming out of Iman on Melo? Prigs can't dunk because Melo is hogging the paths to the rim, right?

SMH

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:I voted for 20-24 million. It keeps him on par with players similar to him around the league. Players have to take less to play in NY under the current set up which is not tax adjusted. It is unrealistic to ask him to take 14 and effectively get paid less than players like D'Andre Jordan. 20-24 is the only realistic number he can take to play here. If he wants to take less on paper only (i.e. Lebron, Bosh, Howard), he can sign with Houston or Dallas if they can clear space. They need to tax adjust the cap to eliminate this loop hole. Howard may have wanted out of LA but saving 14% in tax by going to Hou makes it easier to leave the extra money LA can offer on the table.

+1
the voice of reason. I voted the same, but will hope against hope that someone of substance will want to come here and Melo will take even less than my vote to make it happen.

I believe Melo has enough brain matter to realize the end of those knees is near. Playing in Houston or in LA without Blake or D'andre is not getting him a ring. Kobe is toast. And just about anywhere else is more of a pipedream than NYC.

He will make his bed here, and PJax is smart enough to know that 68 + 5 year plan does not equate to a great exit legacy with this owner and no experience at draft building. He needs Melo and Melo needs him for this to work for either one of them.

Like fish is saying, where you gonna get this production?

replacing melo's type of production is like addition through subtraction. he makes others around him worse and is a miserable failure in the playoffs. so removing him should not be as big of a problem as you are making it out to be.

in case you haven't realized-- the knicks will be rebuilding. if he doesn't want to stick around for a rebuild then he should leave. he will be reviled forever for doing so but he made this bed.

Let's see what jackson offers since we all know that he is smarter than us and has a deeper understanding of value.

Melo did quite well in the playoffs with the right piece CB. If we give him the same sh1tty pieces here like Felton, Baron Davis, Iverson ... than I am sure we will witness jack up city Melo.

fishmike wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Interesting results. I'm impressed that most of the board has him in the $12-17 mil range.

It doesn't look like most of the board is participating.

its a stupid poll. No reality in basis. Melo wont get paid what anyone *thinks* they deserve. Except for a couple guys in the league about every owner and every GM wishes their roster made less.

The contracts these guys sign are usually the # that the team has set where they cant afford to let that player walk for nothing.

The reason talent gets overpaid is because teams cant afford to lose it. Better to have Melo at $20 then let him walk and lose him for nothing because you think $16mm is all he is "worth"

I was listening to Michael Kay and Don Lagrecca(sp? Friday and I thought Don nailed it. He understood the sentiment of starting over, but the thing he kept coming back to (which I agree with) is when Melo walks your back to looking for an all star, all NBA type guy to start building around... or a great scorer who can go get you buckets.

Talent is the big commodity in the NBA. You dont just let $20mm of it walk and think you can go out and get that back when you need it.

"no reality in basis" what does this even mean

it is moronic to talk about money to the exclusion of anything else, especially winning.

what part of cost versus value do you not comprehend?

or have you already concluded that with melo it remains all about money?

smdh

"shakes my dumb head" is that it means?

Have you ever taken an economics course? Do you understand how markets worth? When you invest in something do you pay what you want? What you feel the value is? Or do you pay what the market dictates? That is why your poll is stupid. If you want to talk about "feelings" like how you "feel" Melo should be paid fine. I get it... your around $12mm and TFK is around zero. I dont really care about that however.

How about you answer this simple question based on how the real world works:

If its the Knicks goal to win games and build a team that can compete for a title which of these scenarios brings you closer to that goal:
1) Knicks resign Melo to 4years/$95mm (20, 22.5, 25, 27.5)
2) Knicks offer Melo $15mm, but wont budge and he walks and Knicks get nothing return

Do tell...

Well we've already seen what happens with choice #1 on a team run by Dolan. And that was with a younger Melo. You're not exactly arguing from a position of strength here!

fair Bonn... Do you want to compare with Melo vs without? Marbury, Francis, McDyess for saviors... or we could build around Gallo and his ACL? Im being honest.. easy to say Melo isnt a franchise guy, and thats OK. But if thats the case whats the plan for replacing that talent? That production?

mreinman wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:I voted for 20-24 million. It keeps him on par with players similar to him around the league. Players have to take less to play in NY under the current set up which is not tax adjusted. It is unrealistic to ask him to take 14 and effectively get paid less than players like D'Andre Jordan. 20-24 is the only realistic number he can take to play here. If he wants to take less on paper only (i.e. Lebron, Bosh, Howard), he can sign with Houston or Dallas if they can clear space. They need to tax adjust the cap to eliminate this loop hole. Howard may have wanted out of LA but saving 14% in tax by going to Hou makes it easier to leave the extra money LA can offer on the table.

+1
the voice of reason. I voted the same, but will hope against hope that someone of substance will want to come here and Melo will take even less than my vote to make it happen.

I believe Melo has enough brain matter to realize the end of those knees is near. Playing in Houston or in LA without Blake or D'andre is not getting him a ring. Kobe is toast. And just about anywhere else is more of a pipedream than NYC.

He will make his bed here, and PJax is smart enough to know that 68 + 5 year plan does not equate to a great exit legacy with this owner and no experience at draft building. He needs Melo and Melo needs him for this to work for either one of them.

Like fish is saying, where you gonna get this production?

replacing melo's type of production is like addition through subtraction. he makes others around him worse and is a miserable failure in the playoffs. so removing him should not be as big of a problem as you are making it out to be.

in case you haven't realized-- the knicks will be rebuilding. if he doesn't want to stick around for a rebuild then he should leave. he will be reviled forever for doing so but he made this bed.

In case you haven't read things lately, the only quote regarding direction we have from PJax the Saviour is "getting talent". It isn't "getting yoots".
Or "amassing draft picks while I turn 70 and feel the rest of my bone structure deteriorating". He's going to go starphucking. Welcome to NYC.

Yeah, Melo made this bed. 3 maybe 4 years in the playoffs after a decade plus drought. Some of the best individual performances since Ewing. What a sheethole experience he's left us so far.

How exactly, has Melo made THJr worse? Ray Felton is worse because of Melo? How's Stat look to you lately? Worse? ChanglingFluBoy is worse because of Melo? JR is worse? Are you seriously going to blame the flaming out of Iman on Melo? Prigs can't dunk because Melo is hogging the paths to the rim, right?

SMH

When Melo is off teem you will see that Tyson will no longer get weekly flu's.

HOW YA GONNA DENY THAT??

Felton will start hitting shots and play D like last night.

Prigs will buy a Delorian and get younger

Stat will never get hurt or punch glass again. He will also convert from judaism and have a better grip on his balls.

Shumpert will be less angry but probably still shoot like sh1t cause that what he always does/did/do.

+1
thanks, mreinman, that was greatly needed on a rainy day being one out of the playoffs.
Go Sicksers! two in a row!

Cue the Nalod with a long commentary on circumcision!

Silverfuel wrote:Every single person that says blow it up has no plan. Nothing. They say build through the draft as if no one else has tried it. And then they point their finger at the Spurs because the Spurs were lucky enough to draft Tim Duncan. There is no one way to build a championship team but majority of them are built through FA signing and trades. You draft young talent then trade them for a star player like Melo. You let him walk, what are you replacing him with?

there has been ten years of proof that building a true contender around carmelo anthony is not possible-- it hasn't worked in denver and hasn't worked in new york. would you rather be stuck with a known quantity at a high price or go into the unknown by finally rebuilding? has that even been attempted during dolan's time here?

we may be about to find out.

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Interesting results. I'm impressed that most of the board has him in the $12-17 mil range.

It doesn't look like most of the board is participating.

its a stupid poll. No reality in basis. Melo wont get paid what anyone *thinks* they deserve. Except for a couple guys in the league about every owner and every GM wishes their roster made less.

The contracts these guys sign are usually the # that the team has set where they cant afford to let that player walk for nothing.

The reason talent gets overpaid is because teams cant afford to lose it. Better to have Melo at $20 then let him walk and lose him for nothing because you think $16mm is all he is "worth"

I was listening to Michael Kay and Don Lagrecca(sp? Friday and I thought Don nailed it. He understood the sentiment of starting over, but the thing he kept coming back to (which I agree with) is when Melo walks your back to looking for an all star, all NBA type guy to start building around... or a great scorer who can go get you buckets.

Talent is the big commodity in the NBA. You dont just let $20mm of it walk and think you can go out and get that back when you need it.

"no reality in basis" what does this even mean

it is moronic to talk about money to the exclusion of anything else, especially winning.

what part of cost versus value do you not comprehend?

or have you already concluded that with melo it remains all about money?

smdh

"shakes my dumb head" is that it means?

Have you ever taken an economics course? Do you understand how markets worth? When you invest in something do you pay what you want? What you feel the value is? Or do you pay what the market dictates? That is why your poll is stupid. If you want to talk about "feelings" like how you "feel" Melo should be paid fine. I get it... your around $12mm and TFK is around zero. I dont really care about that however.

How about you answer this simple question based on how the real world works:

If its the Knicks goal to win games and build a team that can compete for a title which of these scenarios brings you closer to that goal:
1) Knicks resign Melo to 4years/$95mm (20, 22.5, 25, 27.5)
2) Knicks offer Melo $15mm, but wont budge and he walks and Knicks get nothing return

Do tell...

Well we've already seen what happens with choice #1 on a team run by Dolan. And that was with a younger Melo. You're not exactly arguing from a position of strength here!

ya think?!

he isn't worth that money in (1) and the knicks cannot win with him costing that much.

i say let him walk for nothing if that's what it comes down to-- he isn't lebron james or kevin durant-- melo is dolan's sunk cost and good riddance-- and lets see if phil can build a champion once all sources of toxicity have been purged, and that of course includes carmelo anthony.

phil has two rings as a knick player buys him that time and autonomy.

that said-- if melo has grey matter in that skull and it isn't just gristle in there-- he should be able to listen to reason vis a vis what it will take to win a title here with him as one piece. for once i would like to see a number from melo that is not borderline but decisively good. his numbers have been borderline and his salary has been inflated. i am not sure i can tolerate seeing this guy get paid 14-17 million but my faith in phil jackson may ameliorate that intolerance.

nice way to type a lot of words that do not answer the question. Again.. your feelings aside you think the Knicks are better off letting him walk for nothing than paying him over... Give me the #. Please. You can do it.

i think he is worth no more than 14 million a year to the knicks. if he is worth more than that to other teams who are in a better position to win it all then he should leave even if it means one less year on a contract and less annually from someplace else to boot, which i believe is and will be a factor in his own deliberations. that is a piece of leverage that jackson possesses. "leave and you will be paid less and will have one less year on a contract."

if melo wants more than 14 million from the knicks then he is not living in reality and has not digested or reflected on his own worth to the knicks in terms of remaining in new york in pursuit of a title.

again, what does melo value more?

i am going to throw this out there: whatever money he may be offered to play elsewhere you subtract 7-8 million to account for one less year and that we overpaid for him in the first contract.

14 million is a reasonable price to pay for carmelo anthony.

this nonsense about him needing to see a plan is a distraction and frankly an insult to the knicks and their fans-- melo stop acting the primadonna! you want a plan to emerge with YOU in it then start off by offering to play for 14 million! screw what the market will bear-- that has to do with cost only not value.

so you needed four paragraphs to come up with $14mm? Thats the number?

So just to confirm... if say Melo would stay for $18mm you (as the GM for the Knicks) would let him walk for nothing? Do I have that correctly? These are yes/no questions by the way.

Your playing GM here. I want to know what YOU would do.

WE ARE IN REBUILDING MODE ANYWAY.

he wants to be a 30 year old who sticks around for a rebuild great-- but then he should not be getting anything more than 14 million for the opportunity to remain in new york while we rebuild.

he wants to leave new york then great-- he will have to deal with the fallout the rest of his career and life.

WE ARE IN REBUILDING MODE ANYWAY.

dk7th wrote:

Silverfuel wrote:Every single person that says blow it up has no plan. Nothing. They say build through the draft as if no one else has tried it. And then they point their finger at the Spurs because the Spurs were lucky enough to draft Tim Duncan. There is no one way to build a championship team but majority of them are built through FA signing and trades. You draft young talent then trade them for a star player like Melo. You let him walk, what are you replacing him with?

there has been ten years of proof that building a true contender around carmelo anthony is not possible-- it hasn't worked in denver and hasn't worked in new york. would you rather be stuck with a known quantity at a high price or go into the unknown by finally rebuilding? has that even been attempted during dolan's time here?

we may be about to find out.

Melo is a complete playoff failure? Has MElo ever lost a playoff series where his team had homecourt? Ever?

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:I voted for 20-24 million. It keeps him on par with players similar to him around the league. Players have to take less to play in NY under the current set up which is not tax adjusted. It is unrealistic to ask him to take 14 and effectively get paid less than players like D'Andre Jordan. 20-24 is the only realistic number he can take to play here. If he wants to take less on paper only (i.e. Lebron, Bosh, Howard), he can sign with Houston or Dallas if they can clear space. They need to tax adjust the cap to eliminate this loop hole. Howard may have wanted out of LA but saving 14% in tax by going to Hou makes it easier to leave the extra money LA can offer on the table.

+1
the voice of reason. I voted the same, but will hope against hope that someone of substance will want to come here and Melo will take even less than my vote to make it happen.

I believe Melo has enough brain matter to realize the end of those knees is near. Playing in Houston or in LA without Blake or D'andre is not getting him a ring. Kobe is toast. And just about anywhere else is more of a pipedream than NYC.

He will make his bed here, and PJax is smart enough to know that 68 + 5 year plan does not equate to a great exit legacy with this owner and no experience at draft building. He needs Melo and Melo needs him for this to work for either one of them.

Like fish is saying, where you gonna get this production?

replacing melo's type of production is like addition through subtraction. he makes others around him worse and is a miserable failure in the playoffs. so removing him should not be as big of a problem as you are making it out to be.

in case you haven't realized-- the knicks will be rebuilding. if he doesn't want to stick around for a rebuild then he should leave. he will be reviled forever for doing so but he made this bed.

what a garbage post. It really is. Yes... remove an all star, all NBA player coming off a top 3 MVP season and scoring title but yea... its addition by subtraction. Your probably one of these guy who just thinks Melo's scoring loss will just come from other others, who are probably more effecient.

in case you haven't realized-- the knicks will be rebuilding.

says who??? Be prepared for Phil to do the opposite

you cannot be a contender with him in the role he has played for the last ten years.

you can list all the accolades you want-- it's results that matter. his playoff record is very very bad. no excuses. numbers don't lie.

mvp is a regular-season award. BFD

stop focussing on the regular season stuff.

he is not a winner in the role he has been playing. he needs to take a backseat and accept backseat money.

if phil jackson thinks he can work with carmelo anthony then great-- but i would not be at all surprised if melo is gone. phil jackson is in a position to lowball melo and he should.

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:I voted for 20-24 million. It keeps him on par with players similar to him around the league. Players have to take less to play in NY under the current set up which is not tax adjusted. It is unrealistic to ask him to take 14 and effectively get paid less than players like D'Andre Jordan. 20-24 is the only realistic number he can take to play here. If he wants to take less on paper only (i.e. Lebron, Bosh, Howard), he can sign with Houston or Dallas if they can clear space. They need to tax adjust the cap to eliminate this loop hole. Howard may have wanted out of LA but saving 14% in tax by going to Hou makes it easier to leave the extra money LA can offer on the table.

+1
the voice of reason. I voted the same, but will hope against hope that someone of substance will want to come here and Melo will take even less than my vote to make it happen.

I believe Melo has enough brain matter to realize the end of those knees is near. Playing in Houston or in LA without Blake or D'andre is not getting him a ring. Kobe is toast. And just about anywhere else is more of a pipedream than NYC.

He will make his bed here, and PJax is smart enough to know that 68 + 5 year plan does not equate to a great exit legacy with this owner and no experience at draft building. He needs Melo and Melo needs him for this to work for either one of them.

Like fish is saying, where you gonna get this production?

replacing melo's type of production is like addition through subtraction. he makes others around him worse and is a miserable failure in the playoffs. so removing him should not be as big of a problem as you are making it out to be.

in case you haven't realized-- the knicks will be rebuilding. if he doesn't want to stick around for a rebuild then he should leave. he will be reviled forever for doing so but he made this bed.

what a garbage post. It really is. Yes... remove an all star, all NBA player coming off a top 3 MVP season and scoring title but yea... its addition by subtraction. Your probably one of these guy who just thinks Melo's scoring loss will just come from other others, who are probably more effecient.

in case you haven't realized-- the knicks will be rebuilding.

says who??? Be prepared for Phil to do the opposite

you cannot be a contender with him in the role he has played for the last ten years.

you can list all the accolades you want-- it's results that matter. his playoff record is very very bad. no excuses. numbers don't lie.

mvp is a regular-season award. BFD

stop focussing on the regular season stuff.

he is not a winner in the role he has been playing. he needs to take a backseat and accept backseat money.

if phil jackson thinks he can work with carmelo anthony then great-- but i would not be at all surprised if melo is gone. phil jackson is in a position to lowball melo and he should.

Your talking about his role. Im talking about talent. What was the team Melo played on that was a title caliber team?
I know you think this doesnt matter, but I contend it does.

Melo's game is not a playoff winner. Iso basketball works well you have a supporting cast who can do things. I saw Melo play very well in that Pacer's series. What I also saw was Ive seen this year.. terrible guard play. Are the shots Melo takes more important than the ones JR or Felton takes? Or Shump?

dk7th wrote:

fishmike wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

SwishAndDish13 wrote:I voted for 20-24 million. It keeps him on par with players similar to him around the league. Players have to take less to play in NY under the current set up which is not tax adjusted. It is unrealistic to ask him to take 14 and effectively get paid less than players like D'Andre Jordan. 20-24 is the only realistic number he can take to play here. If he wants to take less on paper only (i.e. Lebron, Bosh, Howard), he can sign with Houston or Dallas if they can clear space. They need to tax adjust the cap to eliminate this loop hole. Howard may have wanted out of LA but saving 14% in tax by going to Hou makes it easier to leave the extra money LA can offer on the table.

+1
the voice of reason. I voted the same, but will hope against hope that someone of substance will want to come here and Melo will take even less than my vote to make it happen.

I believe Melo has enough brain matter to realize the end of those knees is near. Playing in Houston or in LA without Blake or D'andre is not getting him a ring. Kobe is toast. And just about anywhere else is more of a pipedream than NYC.

He will make his bed here, and PJax is smart enough to know that 68 + 5 year plan does not equate to a great exit legacy with this owner and no experience at draft building. He needs Melo and Melo needs him for this to work for either one of them.

Like fish is saying, where you gonna get this production?

replacing melo's type of production is like addition through subtraction. he makes others around him worse and is a miserable failure in the playoffs. so removing him should not be as big of a problem as you are making it out to be.

in case you haven't realized-- the knicks will be rebuilding. if he doesn't want to stick around for a rebuild then he should leave. he will be reviled forever for doing so but he made this bed.

what a garbage post. It really is. Yes... remove an all star, all NBA player coming off a top 3 MVP season and scoring title but yea... its addition by subtraction. Your probably one of these guy who just thinks Melo's scoring loss will just come from other others, who are probably more effecient.

in case you haven't realized-- the knicks will be rebuilding.

says who??? Be prepared for Phil to do the opposite

you cannot be a contender with him in the role he has played for the last ten years.

you can list all the accolades you want-- it's results that matter. his playoff record is very very bad. no excuses. numbers don't lie.

mvp is a regular-season award. BFD

stop focussing on the regular season stuff.

he is not a winner in the role he has been playing. he needs to take a backseat and accept backseat money.

if phil jackson thinks he can work with carmelo anthony then great-- but i would not be at all surprised if melo is gone. phil jackson is in a position to lowball melo and he should.

fishmike wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Indy last year

good call... we lost that series because of Melo's poor play? That was a winnable series... what happened?

carmelo anthony gave away home court advantage. he not only did not rise to the occasion he was invisible out there, having almost no floor impact. the knicks were trailing at home by 16 points by the start of the 4th quarter.

he missed 18 of his 28 shots, his usage was 43 percent and he had 1 assist and 2 turnovers to show for it. assist rate was 6.2 % 43:6.2 = 7:1 ratio

you would do well to watch that game again if you can stomach it.

the dude is a loser for the role he has occupied.