tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:After the anger wears off, really, did you expect any different?

I hate Woodson and he has done a pathetic work, but when your season is literally a rollercoaster of playing bad, then good, then bad and so, players have as much blame. Yesterday's performance was inexcusable in so many levels, that simply saying Woody has lost them again is a terrible excuse. There is no justification for the embarrassment of yesterday when you are supposed to try to make the playoffs.

They might not be eliminated yet, but I completely gave up on them last night. If a team deserves no chance of making the playoffs, is this stupid, immature, irrational, quitting excuse of a team.

Clean the house, Phil. Who really cares? They sure dont.

I agree to some extent, but is not a matter of cleaning house, it a matter of 2 or 3 players, and in all reality it can be any 2 or 3 players on the team. Or you can leave the core intact and add some defenders and a spark plug and by god a new coach with a different philosophy..

its just not 2 or 3 players man.. unless you are talking about our 3 highest paid players... Blame has to start with them first!

in the real world change starts with those who are underperforming.

Does everyone else get a pass? Certainly not... but if you watch the Knicks for 5 minutes (and you are objective) one thing will jump out at you first and foremost and that is the guard play. How many lower tier NBDL guards have to light this team up before we see how deplorable as a group they are?

In terms of Shump/THjr/Felton/Prigs/JR the only one who has performed well this year is Prigs, and he's the backup PG. THjr (like in college) follows his tantalizing scoring streaks with games he cant even hit a shot. Shump has had how many goose eggs this year? JR shot 30% for a good month or more after failing his 4th piss test and Felton (this has been accuratly documented) is the worst starting PG in the league.

Pretty easy to see where the roster overhaul needs to start

fishmike I am very objective when I watch the knicks.. here is an article you should read, from GRANTLAND, it is about the mavs and their culture.. good read..

http://grantland.com/features/dallas-mavericks-monta-ellis-dirk-nowitzki-2014/

the culture of this team, especially on the floor, is bad... it starts with your best players... that is where we have failed.. I think you feel that guys like felton and prigs and a few others may be under performing... but felton is close to his regular numbers.. his % is down a couple of points, his PPG average is down just a couple of points, but his turnovers are also down slightly and his assist are up.... I just don't think that should impact how bad we have been...

In the end, it is up to the big money guys, Carmelo, amare, chandler, to lead, find a way to make this team competitive...

wow that was a great read-- thanks for sharing!

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:After the anger wears off, really, did you expect any different?

I hate Woodson and he has done a pathetic work, but when your season is literally a rollercoaster of playing bad, then good, then bad and so, players have as much blame. Yesterday's performance was inexcusable in so many levels, that simply saying Woody has lost them again is a terrible excuse. There is no justification for the embarrassment of yesterday when you are supposed to try to make the playoffs.

They might not be eliminated yet, but I completely gave up on them last night. If a team deserves no chance of making the playoffs, is this stupid, immature, irrational, quitting excuse of a team.

Clean the house, Phil. Who really cares? They sure dont.

I agree to some extent, but is not a matter of cleaning house, it a matter of 2 or 3 players, and in all reality it can be any 2 or 3 players on the team. Or you can leave the core intact and add some defenders and a spark plug and by god a new coach with a different philosophy..

its just not 2 or 3 players man.. unless you are talking about our 3 highest paid players... Blame has to start with them first!

in the real world change starts with those who are underperforming.

Does everyone else get a pass? Certainly not... but if you watch the Knicks for 5 minutes (and you are objective) one thing will jump out at you first and foremost and that is the guard play. How many lower tier NBDL guards have to light this team up before we see how deplorable as a group they are?

In terms of Shump/THjr/Felton/Prigs/JR the only one who has performed well this year is Prigs, and he's the backup PG. THjr (like in college) follows his tantalizing scoring streaks with games he cant even hit a shot. Shump has had how many goose eggs this year? JR shot 30% for a good month or more after failing his 4th piss test and Felton (this has been accuratly documented) is the worst starting PG in the league.

Pretty easy to see where the roster overhaul needs to start

fishmike I am very objective when I watch the knicks.. here is an article you should read, from GRANTLAND, it is about the mavs and their culture.. good read..

http://grantland.com/features/dallas-mavericks-monta-ellis-dirk-nowitzki-2014/

the culture of this team, especially on the floor, is bad... it starts with your best players... that is where we have failed.. I think you feel that guys like felton and prigs and a few others may be under performing... but felton is close to his regular numbers.. his % is down a couple of points, his PPG average is down just a couple of points, but his turnovers are also down slightly and his assist are up.... I just don't think that should impact how bad we have been...

In the end, it is up to the big money guys, Carmelo, amare, chandler, to lead, find a way to make this team competitive...

wow that was a great read-- thanks for sharing!

thanks, it just shows how important leadership is from the top down to the court..

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

dk7th wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:After the anger wears off, really, did you expect any different?

I hate Woodson and he has done a pathetic work, but when your season is literally a rollercoaster of playing bad, then good, then bad and so, players have as much blame. Yesterday's performance was inexcusable in so many levels, that simply saying Woody has lost them again is a terrible excuse. There is no justification for the embarrassment of yesterday when you are supposed to try to make the playoffs.

They might not be eliminated yet, but I completely gave up on them last night. If a team deserves no chance of making the playoffs, is this stupid, immature, irrational, quitting excuse of a team.

Clean the house, Phil. Who really cares? They sure dont.

I agree to some extent, but is not a matter of cleaning house, it a matter of 2 or 3 players, and in all reality it can be any 2 or 3 players on the team. Or you can leave the core intact and add some defenders and a spark plug and by god a new coach with a different philosophy..

its just not 2 or 3 players man.. unless you are talking about our 3 highest paid players... Blame has to start with them first!

in the real world change starts with those who are underperforming.

Does everyone else get a pass? Certainly not... but if you watch the Knicks for 5 minutes (and you are objective) one thing will jump out at you first and foremost and that is the guard play. How many lower tier NBDL guards have to light this team up before we see how deplorable as a group they are?

In terms of Shump/THjr/Felton/Prigs/JR the only one who has performed well this year is Prigs, and he's the backup PG. THjr (like in college) follows his tantalizing scoring streaks with games he cant even hit a shot. Shump has had how many goose eggs this year? JR shot 30% for a good month or more after failing his 4th piss test and Felton (this has been accuratly documented) is the worst starting PG in the league.

Pretty easy to see where the roster overhaul needs to start

fishmike I am very objective when I watch the knicks.. here is an article you should read, from GRANTLAND, it is about the mavs and their culture.. good read..

http://grantland.com/features/dallas-mavericks-monta-ellis-dirk-nowitzki-2014/

the culture of this team, especially on the floor, is bad... it starts with your best players... that is where we have failed.. I think you feel that guys like felton and prigs and a few others may be under performing... but felton is close to his regular numbers.. his % is down a couple of points, his PPG average is down just a couple of points, but his turnovers are also down slightly and his assist are up.... I just don't think that should impact how bad we have been...

In the end, it is up to the big money guys, Carmelo, amare, chandler, to lead, find a way to make this team competitive...

wow that was a great read-- thanks for sharing!

thanks, it just shows how important leadership is from the top down to the court..

my favorite part was ellis saying he was willing to leave money on the table-- 11 million was it?-- in order to find himself in a better culture. culture and coaching matters a lot in my opinion.

such a shame that we had a germinal culture here in 2010 only to have it ethered.

"a player like that becomes available you make that trade 1000 times out of a 1000 times, period!"

fast forward: "i want to test free agency"

BRUTAL

Brutal to say the least. .LOL...

the thing with monta is that the mavs and He himself were able to come to terms with the type of player he is and where he fit.. Don't overpay monta, he is not a franchise player, but can be a good one at the right price, and monta for realizing that it is more important to be part of a good culture accepting a role, than getting a bigger paycheck and being the man...

It worked out best for him and the mavs.. and having dirk as the franchise rock that he is, doesn't hurt one bit..

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:After the anger wears off, really, did you expect any different?

I hate Woodson and he has done a pathetic work, but when your season is literally a rollercoaster of playing bad, then good, then bad and so, players have as much blame. Yesterday's performance was inexcusable in so many levels, that simply saying Woody has lost them again is a terrible excuse. There is no justification for the embarrassment of yesterday when you are supposed to try to make the playoffs.

They might not be eliminated yet, but I completely gave up on them last night. If a team deserves no chance of making the playoffs, is this stupid, immature, irrational, quitting excuse of a team.

Clean the house, Phil. Who really cares? They sure dont.

I agree to some extent, but is not a matter of cleaning house, it a matter of 2 or 3 players, and in all reality it can be any 2 or 3 players on the team. Or you can leave the core intact and add some defenders and a spark plug and by god a new coach with a different philosophy..

its just not 2 or 3 players man.. unless you are talking about our 3 highest paid players... Blame has to start with them first!

in the real world change starts with those who are underperforming.

Does everyone else get a pass? Certainly not... but if you watch the Knicks for 5 minutes (and you are objective) one thing will jump out at you first and foremost and that is the guard play. How many lower tier NBDL guards have to light this team up before we see how deplorable as a group they are?

In terms of Shump/THjr/Felton/Prigs/JR the only one who has performed well this year is Prigs, and he's the backup PG. THjr (like in college) follows his tantalizing scoring streaks with games he cant even hit a shot. Shump has had how many goose eggs this year? JR shot 30% for a good month or more after failing his 4th piss test and Felton (this has been accuratly documented) is the worst starting PG in the league.

Pretty easy to see where the roster overhaul needs to start

Hmmmmm, I wonder which one of the 3 highest paid players is mostly to blame for bad backcourt play?

29 points, 9 boards, 3 dimes, 1 steal, 1 block, 8 FTA, 3 fouls

Fire the guys with the real money first!

jrod, carmelo had a garbage game... the 29 points were just stat padding. he got off to an awful start, took some bad shots and did nothing to stop the lakers from steamrolling us... those were the most useless stats I have seen in a while.. even with carmelo off to a bad start, the knicks got off to a good start, they were up early..... I just don't like piling on the lesser players... if we are putting these types of losses on them, then the problem is much bigger than they are....everyone is to be held accountable, especially the teams best players.

(Garbage game?)
Melo had a bad first quarter but had a very efficient game. 29 points on a TS of 59, 9 rebounds, 8-8 from the foul line. He is usually the opposite this year. Strong firsts and weak 4th's.

Pick the guys who actually sucked on offense please.

And, the defense sucked and thats on everybody but watching Felton on defense day in and day out is just putrid. Perhaps Woody should help him out a little since he is getting torched consistently. If you're point guard is getting broken down on every play then your defense will have a hard time recovering. Teams get passed our front line at will!!

Ray's assists are up? He is almost a full assists below his knick average and .2 better than last year - big whoop.
Ray's TS is at a sweet 47% (badish??). Now combine that with being the worst defensive PG in the history of the game.

Shumpert needs to go - TODAY! I always thought that he was way overrated but I no longer have to think that. Nobody is overrating him anymore.

But we should not be piling on lesser (trash) players and pile a guy who is having a very efficient season.

As far as Amare and Tyson - they get more than their share of abuse but we are not losing because of their efficient play. We are losing because of our guards HORRID efficiency and atrocious defense.

We need a new coach, a new culture, and new players - lets start at PG though I have faith that Phil will make the correct moves and retain who he believes should be retained.

tkf wrote:fishmike I am very objective when I watch the knicks..

You are truly a comic genius.

nyk4ever wrote:woodson refuses to EVER make a change. take some of these guys off the floors and put guys in who are starving playing time. guys like murry and tyler would atleast give effort.

gunsnewing wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:woodson refuses to EVER make a change. take some of these guys off the floors and put guys in who are starving playing time. guys like murry and tyler would atleast give effort.

I am not sure that they are that good. Murry was really bad in the almost loss to the sixers. Tyler hasn't looked that great and is a foul machine. Maybe now that the playoffs appear out of reach these guys can get minutes and hopefully improve their games. Not sure that Murry is an nba player.

i dont know if they are any good, but atleast they're hungry. ill take hungry and effort over guys who couldn't give a crap. how could murry replacing felton be any worse? felton couldn't guard a 400lb man.

Felton couldn't guard Oliver Miller

Stop picking on Felton, he is not our problem.

Cartman718 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

nyk4ever wrote:woodson refuses to EVER make a change. take some of these guys off the floors and put guys in who are starving playing time. guys like murry and tyler would atleast give effort.

I am not sure that they are that good. Murry was really bad in the almost loss to the sixers. Tyler hasn't looked that great and is a foul machine. Maybe now that the playoffs appear out of reach these guys can get minutes and hopefully improve their games. Not sure that Murry is an nba player.

i dont know if they are any good, but atleast they're hungry. ill take hungry and effort over guys who couldn't give a crap. how could murry replacing felton be any worse? felton couldn't guard a 400lb man.

Felton couldn't guard Oliver Miller

Stop picking on Felton, he is not our problem.

our PGs defense is one of the biggest problems on this team in terms of consistency? how can you not pick on fatton?

sarcasm

mreinman wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:fishmike I am very objective when I watch the knicks..

You are truly a comic genius.

Sh1t jrod! I spilled all over myself

And don't even think I was trying to be sarcastic. The man has a rare sense of humor.

I mean, it's got to be humor, right? Right?

mreinman wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:After the anger wears off, really, did you expect any different?

I hate Woodson and he has done a pathetic work, but when your season is literally a rollercoaster of playing bad, then good, then bad and so, players have as much blame. Yesterday's performance was inexcusable in so many levels, that simply saying Woody has lost them again is a terrible excuse. There is no justification for the embarrassment of yesterday when you are supposed to try to make the playoffs.

They might not be eliminated yet, but I completely gave up on them last night. If a team deserves no chance of making the playoffs, is this stupid, immature, irrational, quitting excuse of a team.

Clean the house, Phil. Who really cares? They sure dont.

I agree to some extent, but is not a matter of cleaning house, it a matter of 2 or 3 players, and in all reality it can be any 2 or 3 players on the team. Or you can leave the core intact and add some defenders and a spark plug and by god a new coach with a different philosophy..

its just not 2 or 3 players man.. unless you are talking about our 3 highest paid players... Blame has to start with them first!

in the real world change starts with those who are underperforming.

Does everyone else get a pass? Certainly not... but if you watch the Knicks for 5 minutes (and you are objective) one thing will jump out at you first and foremost and that is the guard play. How many lower tier NBDL guards have to light this team up before we see how deplorable as a group they are?

In terms of Shump/THjr/Felton/Prigs/JR the only one who has performed well this year is Prigs, and he's the backup PG. THjr (like in college) follows his tantalizing scoring streaks with games he cant even hit a shot. Shump has had how many goose eggs this year? JR shot 30% for a good month or more after failing his 4th piss test and Felton (this has been accuratly documented) is the worst starting PG in the league.

Pretty easy to see where the roster overhaul needs to start

Hmmmmm, I wonder which one of the 3 highest paid players is mostly to blame for bad backcourt play?

29 points, 9 boards, 3 dimes, 1 steal, 1 block, 8 FTA, 3 fouls

Fire the guys with the real money first!

jrod, carmelo had a garbage game... the 29 points were just stat padding. he got off to an awful start, took some bad shots and did nothing to stop the lakers from steamrolling us... those were the most useless stats I have seen in a while.. even with carmelo off to a bad start, the knicks got off to a good start, they were up early..... I just don't like piling on the lesser players... if we are putting these types of losses on them, then the problem is much bigger than they are....everyone is to be held accountable, especially the teams best players.

(Garbage game?)
Melo had a bad first quarter but had a very efficient game. 29 points on a TS of 59, 9 rebounds, 8-8 from the foul line. He is usually the opposite this year. Strong firsts and weak 4th's.

Pick the guys who actually sucked on offense please.

And, the defense sucked and thats on everybody but watching Felton on defense day in and day out is just putrid. Perhaps Woody should help him out a little since he is getting torched consistently. If you're point guard is getting broken down on every play then your defense will have a hard time recovering. Teams get passed our front line at will!!

Ray's assists are up? He is almost a full assists below his knick average and .2 better than last year - big whoop.
Ray's TS is at a sweet 47% (badish??). Now combine that with being the worst defensive PG in the history of the game.

Shumpert needs to go - TODAY! I always thought that he was way overrated but I no longer have to think that. Nobody is overrating him anymore.

But we should not be piling on lesser (trash) players and pile a guy who is having a very efficient season.

As far as Amare and Tyson - they get more than their share of abuse but we are not losing because of their efficient play. We are losing because of our guards HORRID efficiency and atrocious defense.

We need a new coach, a new culture, and new players - lets start at PG though I have faith that Phil will make the correct moves and retain who he believes should be retained.

I never been a big fan of TS, I think you are trying to apply it to every situation to make a bad one look good..

The key is to make more shots than you miss... carmelo started off shooting poorly.... very poor... by time he came around and hit a few baskets, they were down close to 30.. basically trading baskets with the lakers down by 30 isn't very productive... he needed that early.. this is the problem when trying to use TS so much.. had carmelo not got off to such a bad start, maybe the knicks dont' fall down 30, maybe the game is a lot closer... now he isn't the only culprit... but I see you went after felton, early on he was one of the few playing pretty good... while the knicks had a lead... I think the announcers actually mentioned that...

Garbage points? yes, stat padding down by 30 is not something I am going to sit here and praise... He was defended pretty well early and took some bad shots as well...

Shumpert needs to go - TODAY! I always thought that he was way overrated but I no longer have to think that. Nobody is overrating him anymore.

he is overrated but It is so hard to judge any young talent on this team under these circumstances.. but I have no problem with him going.. I say everyone needs to go...

As far as Amare and Tyson - they get more than their share of abuse but we are not losing because of their efficient play. We are losing because of our guards HORRID efficiency and atrocious defense.

the guards defense is not good, our PF defense is not good and our SF defense is not good.. Center is ok, but nothing to write home about...