Bonn1997 wrote:Melo haters (plural)? What universe are you living in?

theres only one?

dk7th wrote:i wish i knew how to format these ****ing charts. somebody instruct me please.

Starters	MP	TS%	eFG%	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%	ORtg	DRtg
Carmelo Anthony	42:32	.601	.522	0.0	8.3	4.0	30.6	3.7	0.0	12.4	34.8	113	92

not only did he play defense with genuine alacrity last night but check this out:

TS% 60.1 which is well above his average and helped the team's cause. his career average of 55%TS doesn't help and likely harms his team's cause. collins pointed this out... that he had to up his FTA and become more efficient if he wanted to succeed.

but the most important statistics were

34.8% USAGE which is still close to his astronomical average BUT

30.6% ASSIST RATE which is twice his career average

the net ratio is

1.14 to 1

this ratio reflects that last night melo contributed to offensive cohesion rather than destroying or undermining it. these are winning numbers no two ways about it.

the overarching takeaway is that of melo can maintain this ratio then even if he is having an off scoring night he can still help the team.

Great post. The problem is, Carmelo is a moron more suited for streetball, because he's the only one that can't see this. My 12 year old nephew was watching the Lebron vs Cavs game a few days ago, and he watches the Knicks, too.

A lot of people were criticizing Lebron for not shooting enough after he came out on fire and scored 25 in the first quarter. He had 41 in the game, but "blew" a shot to break his career high mark, which he could have done that night.

This TWELVE YEAR OLD said that the difference between him and Carmelo is...sure, Lebron will take a heat check shot, but only if he's hot, and if he's hot and the defense adjusts, so does he, on the fly, and that's why he stepped back in that game and passed to his team mates. Carmelo, vs the Sixers, was 1-9 at one point, yet he was still chucking long two's early in the shot clock, for no ****ing reason. A TWELVE YEAR OLD can see this, but not this basketball professional.

Can a team win a championship with him? Sure, his skills are amazing. Unfortunately, he is not a cerebral person, and that's something you need to have or get in order to go to the next level. I don't know Carmelo Anthony, but if you put a gun to my head, I wouldn't hesitate to say that no, this guy doesn't study shot charts, playbooks, hot zones, etc, like they were the SAT's..he's the guy that would rather hone his skills on a court, which is why he has that in spades....but that alone doesn't get you anywhere.

Even when we play in the park, if we keep missing a certain shot, we try something different, we go away from what's not working. It's common ****ing sense, and it baffles me as to why Carmelo doesn't do this.

I will say that I see him trying though, now more than ever. His three point shooting has been off, so he hasn't been shooting them that much lately. This is a good sign, and if Jackson can teach and make successful two of the biggest chuckers scorers in the history of the NBA, Carmelo shouldn't be a problem.

dk7th wrote:

Gsus wrote:

dk7th wrote:i wish i knew how to format these ****ing charts. somebody instruct me please.

Starters	MP	TS%	eFG%	ORB%	DRB%	TRB%	AST%	STL%	BLK%	TOV%	USG%	ORtg	DRtg
Carmelo Anthony	42:32	.601	.522	0.0	8.3	4.0	30.6	3.7	0.0	12.4	34.8	113	92

not only did he play defense with genuine alacrity last night but check this out:

TS% 60.1 which is well above his average and helped the team's cause. his career average of 55%TS doesn't help and likely harms his team's cause. collins pointed this out... that he had to up his FTA and become more efficient if he wanted to succeed.

but the most important statistics were

34.8% USAGE which is still close to his astronomical average BUT

30.6% ASSIST RATE which is twice his career average

the net ratio is

1.14 to 1

this ratio reflects that last night melo contributed to offensive cohesion rather than destroying or undermining it. these are winning numbers no two ways about it.

the overarching takeaway is that of melo can maintain this ratio then even if he is having an off scoring night he can still help the team.

Great post. The problem is, Carmelo is a moron more suited for streetball, because he's the only one that can't see this. My 12 year old nephew was watching the Lebron vs Cavs game a few days ago, and he watches the Knicks, too.

A lot of people were criticizing Lebron for not shooting enough after he came out on fire and scored 25 in the first quarter. He had 41 in the game, but "blew" a shot to break his career high mark, which he could have done that night.

This TWELVE YEAR OLD said that the difference between him and Carmelo is...sure, Lebron will take a heat check shot, but only if he's hot, and if he's hot and the defense adjusts, so does he, on the fly, and that's why he stepped back in that game and passed to his team mates. Carmelo, vs the Sixers, was 1-9 at one point, yet he was still chucking long two's early in the shot clock, for no ****ing reason. A TWELVE YEAR OLD can see this, but not this basketball professional.

Can a team win a championship with him? Sure, his skills are amazing. Unfortunately, he is not a cerebral person, and that's something you need to have or get in order to go to the next level. I don't know Carmelo Anthony, but if you put a gun to my head, I wouldn't hesitate to say that no, this guy doesn't study shot charts, playbooks, hot zones, etc, like they were the SAT's..he's the guy that would rather hone his skills on a court, which is why he has that in spades....but that alone doesn't get you anywhere.

Even when we play in the park, if we keep missing a certain shot, we try something different, we go away from what's not working. It's common ****ing sense, and it baffles me as to why Carmelo doesn't do this.

I will say that I see him trying though, now more than ever. His three point shooting has been off, so he hasn't been shooting them that much lately. This is a good sign, and if Jackson can teach and make successful two of the biggest chuckers scorers in the history of the NBA, Carmelo shouldn't be a problem.

i have to believe the triangle offense, ie a "system offense," is meant to make it easier to make better decisions. that really is his only hope, since he did not wear the "point forward" cape too well. as i said, for jordan and bryant to achieve a 1.3 to 1.4 ratio is a great thing. melo should be angling for that from this point forward, fantastically clever pun intended.

seems to me that melo would do well to increase his wind so he can devote himself to the defensive end night in night out. i mean he won't have to expend as much "strength energy" on offense if there is more passing and cutting instead of dribbling. less physical contact during the course of the game will also prolong his stamina.

again, can't get over how great that pun is! somebody should be applauding.

I really hope that you are right. He certainly needs a better USG : AST rate to become a top tier player.

If PJax does not think he can get that out of him then let's sell high and bring in players and picks who buy more into the team concept.

jrodmc wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Melo haters (plural)? What universe are you living in?

theres only one?

In the universe Bonn lives in, he tries to tell himself that there's only one, so his pro bono defense services don't seem to be stretched too thin...

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Melo haters (plural)? What universe are you living in?

theres only one?

As far as I'm aware of, on this site there's only one. The other people JRod counts are ones who simply don't love Melo strongly enough but they've still praised Melo many times and indicated a price at which they'd like to have him stay a Knick.

Yes, they praise him while calling him a greedy malcontent who should be happy to come off the bench on a real team. True love is tough, I understand.
Okay, so maybe there is only one, and I have admitted to dktf that this thread was a beautiful thing.

Bonn, couldn't you just call Melo "Mr .470" one more time, just for old time's sake?

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Melo haters (plural)? What universe are you living in?

theres only one?

As far as I'm aware of, on this site there's only one. The other people JRod counts are ones who simply don't love Melo strongly enough but they've still praised Melo many times and indicated a price at which they'd like to have him stay a Knick.

Yes, they praise him while calling him a greedy malcontent who should be happy to come off the bench on a real team. True love is tough, I understand.
Okay, so maybe there is only one, and I have admitted to dktf that this thread was a beautiful thing.

Bonn, couldn't you just call Melo "Mr .470" one more time, just for old time's sake?

He's improved his game enough that I don't use that phrase any more (not to superstar level but still an improvement). You gotta let it go. It's been a couple of years. The winning % isn't much better than that but I give him credit for the improvements he's made and take a gentler tone.

bonn these are the extremes at which melo fans operate.. it isn't enough you attempt to give him credit.. the fact that you don't see him as great, the knicks savior, and every thing wrong with the knicks as someone else fault, then you still are labeled a semi-hater and a hater lover..

I will just admit.. I don't like the clown... I won't hide anything.. I dislike him for the very reasons why I disliked other players who were like him.. the difference is, those other players didn't play for the knicks...

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Melo haters (plural)? What universe are you living in?

theres only one?

As far as I'm aware of, on this site there's only one. The other people JRod counts are ones who simply don't love Melo strongly enough but they've still praised Melo many times and indicated a price at which they'd like to have him stay a Knick.

Yes, they praise him while calling him a greedy malcontent who should be happy to come off the bench on a real team. True love is tough, I understand.
Okay, so maybe there is only one, and I have admitted to dktf that this thread was a beautiful thing.

Bonn, couldn't you just call Melo "Mr .470" one more time, just for old time's sake?

He's improved his game enough that I don't use that phrase any more (not to superstar level but still an improvement). You gotta let it go. It's been a couple of years. The winning % isn't much better than that but I give him credit for the improvements he's made and take a gentler tone.

bonn these are the extremes at which melo fans operate.. it isn't enough you attempt to give him credit.. the fact that you don't see him as great, the knicks savior, and every thing wrong with the knicks as someone else fault, then you still are labeled a semi-hater and a hater lover..

I will just admit.. I don't like the clown... I won't hide anything.. I dislike him for the very reasons why I disliked other players who were like him.. the difference is, those other players didn't play for the knicks...

so weird... cause you had most here thinking your views on Melo were based soley on your cutting edge basketball knowledge. Damn... and you almost had everyone convinced... zzzz zzzz zzzz

HEY.. fishmike.. you are back... hows the flip flopping going nowadays?

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Melo haters (plural)? What universe are you living in?

theres only one?

As far as I'm aware of, on this site there's only one. The other people JRod counts are ones who simply don't love Melo strongly enough but they've still praised Melo many times and indicated a price at which they'd like to have him stay a Knick.

Yes, they praise him while calling him a greedy malcontent who should be happy to come off the bench on a real team. True love is tough, I understand.
Okay, so maybe there is only one, and I have admitted to dktf that this thread was a beautiful thing.

Bonn, couldn't you just call Melo "Mr .470" one more time, just for old time's sake?

He's improved his game enough that I don't use that phrase any more (not to superstar level but still an improvement). You gotta let it go. It's been a couple of years. The winning % isn't much better than that but I give him credit for the improvements he's made and take a gentler tone.

Which is why I said old times sake. I never lump you in with the hater anymore. Somber, maybe.

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

mreinman wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:Melo haters (plural)? What universe are you living in?

theres only one?

As far as I'm aware of, on this site there's only one. The other people JRod counts are ones who simply don't love Melo strongly enough but they've still praised Melo many times and indicated a price at which they'd like to have him stay a Knick.

Yes, they praise him while calling him a greedy malcontent who should be happy to come off the bench on a real team. True love is tough, I understand.
Okay, so maybe there is only one, and I have admitted to dktf that this thread was a beautiful thing.

Bonn, couldn't you just call Melo "Mr .470" one more time, just for old time's sake?

He's improved his game enough that I don't use that phrase any more (not to superstar level but still an improvement). You gotta let it go. It's been a couple of years. The winning % isn't much better than that but I give him credit for the improvements he's made and take a gentler tone.

bonn these are the extremes at which melo fans operate.. it isn't enough you attempt to give him credit.. the fact that you don't see him as great, the knicks savior, and every thing wrong with the knicks as someone else fault, then you still are labeled a semi-hater and a hater lover..

I will just admit.. I don't like the clown... I won't hide anything.. I dislike him for the very reasons why I disliked other players who were like him.. the difference is, those other players didn't play for the knicks...

so weird... cause you had most here thinking your views on Melo were based soley on your cutting edge basketball knowledge. Damn... and you almost had everyone convinced... zzzz zzzz zzzz

HEY.. fishmike.. you are back... hows the flip flopping going nowadays?

haha.. ask your sister!

I love how you think thats a knock. Probably how you think getting booted from realgm and other forums for your melo-hate is a badge of honor. Sad fella sad!

I did think of you this weekend, your impressive arguements, and how you have owned me on the internet while I was doing some yardwork. Then I finished picking up the dog sh!t from my yard (nasty job but I love my doggies) and didnt think of you or your Melo rantings again.

But Im consistent in my flip flopping!

First I didnt like Melo. Now I see hes a pretty good player.
First I thought you knew sports, realGM moderator, "TKF's keys to the game" etc... Now I see your just a tool.

So there is that

my sister don't like flip floppers.... sorry fish.. she likes real men..

First I didnt like Melo. Now I see hes a pretty good player.

after 13 years in the league fishmike now see's the light.... praise the lord!!!! so before you thought he was a good player fish.. were you a "hater".. I mean you did have the right to feel the way you did about him right?

OK.. well for me, I guess I haven't seen the light fish, so I deserve the right to feel how I want.. I don't flip flop.. A player has to prove to me his worth, winning usually helps.. I don't like a player to make myself stop feeling bad about the team I root for... just admit, you got tired of "disliking" carmelo because it affected how you rooted for the knicks.... you are just built that way.. I am not... I want excellence, I won't settle...

realGM moderator

actually my title reads.. "retired moderator".. wrong again.

Your soooo funny dude!

I don't like a player to make myself stop feeling bad about the team I root for... just admit, you got tired of "disliking" carmelo because it affected how you rooted for the knicks.... you are just built that way.. I am not... I want excellence, I won't settle...

Yea... retired moderator. Kinda like Donnie "retired" from the Knicks also.

I can see watching (or in your case reading) Melo torch your boy George the other night set you on fire again. Make you sure you get your words in every thread! Jihad!

djsunyc wrote:too much sexual tension between fish and tkf. i recommend a weekend in the poconos. they have one of these:

I have been in that actual tub