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Jeremy Lin is a big reason Houston is doing so well
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dk7th
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3/10/2014  4:12 PM
mreinman wrote:
mreinman wrote:I did not intend this to go down another Melo debate thread so lets try to avoid that.

Do you think that Harden passes enough? Does he ever annoy you when he misses wide open teammates? Wade before Lebron got there was the example of the right way to be a ball dominating 2 guard. Harden has a lot to learn about being a better teammate (though he is obviously immensely talented).

TKF/DK, once its not about Melo you guys have no interest?

I asked you both, do you not think that Harden should be passing more. Both left the conversation.

As I mentioned, I watch many Houston games and he frustrates me. I also think that he stunts Lin. TKF, you say you watch their games, does this not bother you?

If you guys don't want to just talk about Harden, thats fine - no worries.

you can't have lin out there with harden too much for the very reason tkf mentions, namely that harden often plays the role of a pg out there. synergy depends on making sure there is no overlap or redundancy in a lineup, which is why i laugh at posters who take pains to point out that beverley is out there a bunch more with harden than lin is. it is about fit and beverley's skills mesh better with harden's.

so far as harden frustrating you with his freeze-outs i can understand that. but i think this is something you tolerate with him for now. harden still needs to work out a few kinks-- the beard makes him look older than 24-- but i think he has the smarts to figure it out. the most relevant flaw in his game will be on defense and that becomes a problem the deeper into the playoffs you go. but with beverley and howard out there that is the kind of defensive "spine" championship teams must have. and parsons is a stout and willing defender, can't leave him out.

the fact is that wade may have higher raw assists but that is due to his astronomical usage rates compared with harden. on balance harden and wade share the ball in the offense about the same, which is close to a 1 to 1 ratio between usage and assist rate.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
AUTOADVERT
SwishAndDish13
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3/10/2014  4:17 PM
tkf wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Ha, I knew this would happen- strange you didn't post his stats in the game previous to this:


11 Pts
2 Pts
7 Pts
4 Pts
6 Pts
11 Pts
2 Pts

He was down to 16 mins a game at one point, averaged 3 Assists and 3 TOs- he is irrelevant to the Rockets, but keep the fantasy alive by only posting when he has the occasional good game!

interesting that melo being +31 in the last game despite having the flu isn't discussed but if you post a thread speculating that melo somehow caused lin to leave ny it will end up 25 pages long. Nice game by lin and a big shot but he is where the money was. In ny he would get minutes in Houston he got paid

HE IS playing for a contender in Houston.. NY is in the lottery as we speak.. not a bad decision for lin, money and a winning team.....

Prior to the Harden acquisition, they were going to be a 30 win team max. He got the best offer he could. Can't blame him, but lets not make stuff up to make it seem like anything other then that.
mreinman
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3/10/2014  4:23 PM
dk7th wrote:
mreinman wrote:
mreinman wrote:I did not intend this to go down another Melo debate thread so lets try to avoid that.

Do you think that Harden passes enough? Does he ever annoy you when he misses wide open teammates? Wade before Lebron got there was the example of the right way to be a ball dominating 2 guard. Harden has a lot to learn about being a better teammate (though he is obviously immensely talented).

TKF/DK, once its not about Melo you guys have no interest?

I asked you both, do you not think that Harden should be passing more. Both left the conversation.

As I mentioned, I watch many Houston games and he frustrates me. I also think that he stunts Lin. TKF, you say you watch their games, does this not bother you?

If you guys don't want to just talk about Harden, thats fine - no worries.

you can't have lin out there with harden too much for the very reason tkf mentions, namely that harden often plays the role of a pg out there. synergy depends on making sure there is no overlap or redundancy in a lineup, which is why i laugh at posters who take pains to point out that beverley is out there a bunch more with harden than lin is. it is about fit and beverley's skills mesh better with harden's.

so far as harden frustrating you with his freeze-outs i can understand that. but i think this is something you tolerate with him for now. harden still needs to work out a few kinks-- the beard makes him look older than 24-- but i think he has the smarts to figure it out. the most relevant flaw in his game will be on defense and that becomes a problem the deeper into the playoffs you go. but with beverley and howard out there that is the kind of defensive "spine" championship teams must have. and parsons is a stout and willing defender, can't leave him out.

the fact is that wade may have higher raw assists but that is due to his astronomical usage rates compared with harden. on balance harden and wade share the ball in the offense about the same, which is close to a 1 to 1 ratio between usage and assist rate.

good post. I do think that Harden can get better/smarter with the ball. I just don't see him trying to improve on that.

He too often goes into his 1 on 1 street ball mode and forgets everyone else. A few times recently I saw Lin calling for the ball a few times and Harden looked at him and just ignored him. I also see this look on Parsons as well.

For Lin to be effective, he needs more touches and I don't think this is the team that this will happen with.

And, Beverly's defense just puts Lin's to shame, that is the main reason why he gets the minutes.

I am very curious to see how harden does in the playoffs. My money is on him shooting his team out of games.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
rammagen
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3/10/2014  6:18 PM
nyk4ever wrote:
rammagen wrote:sorry left the other board over lin crap and it is here too?he has yet to play a full yr as a starter without getting hurt. I can not understand the crush these kids have on him. I wish i could to freaking Knicks board without the stupid lin fans being there.
I stand by the statement not matching was the first smart thing the Knicks did they finally did not over pay for a role player

well then they way overpaid novak so its six of one and halfdozen of another.

totally agree about lin being overated by alot of knick fans, but he did play well for us. he moved onto greener pastures and got his contract, got paid more than he deserved. good for him. if he came back here, he'd instantly be our best pg without a doubt.


Novak.... promptly shipped him to Toronto. Lin for the price is not worth it. Last yr Felton who is hated and played crappy this yr played very similar to Lin at less of a cost. I am ot against paying players but for player that have not played a complete yr, without getting hurt. 25 games and of course th lin supports will say he went from nothing to full tilt and then got hurt but come one as a starter you are going to get 35+ minutes a night and his body did not hold up. He is the 6th or 7th guy on the bench do you want to pay that role player 15 million...
Best pg in New York maybe but that is not because he is a star but rather the best average pg at the moment
rammagen
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3/10/2014  6:21 PM
mreinman wrote:Make every joke/comment that you want about Lin but that was the epitome of the ineptness of this dumb franchise.

He lit up the fan base and he's gone. Very sad.


he lit up younger fans but diehards for the last 30+ yrs that are junkies that remember Clyde playing...hardly
rammagen
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3/10/2014  6:24 PM
mreinman wrote:
TeamBall wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Ha, I knew this would happen- strange you didn't post his stats in the game previous to this:


11 Pts
2 Pts
7 Pts
4 Pts
6 Pts
11 Pts
2 Pts

He was down to 16 mins a game at one point, averaged 3 Assists and 3 TOs- he is irrelevant to the Rockets, but keep the fantasy alive by only posting when he has the occasional good game!

interesting that melo being +31 in the last game despite having the flu isn't discussed but if you post a thread speculating that melo somehow caused lin to leave ny it will end up 25 pages long. Nice game by lin and a big shot but he is where the money was. In ny he would get minutes in Houston he got paid

I think Melo is doing a great job. His one downfall if I can say that, is he can't rally what we have around him. I don't know why. Perhaps he is more a complimentary type of star than a leader - fair enough.
Since this thread is about Lin, I'll just say, Lin did that. He turned a bunch of nobodies into a team here. Interesting though, that Lin still has a lot of fans here, we don't really see that much with other ex players. I really think he has that IT factor.

But, had we had Melo AND Lin on this team, I think we would have had our leader/star and Star in Melo. Too bad management went in another direction.

EMS

Look I personally don't care about Lin because Im a Knick Fan BUT I have noticed that the people who despise Lin the most are the hardcore Melo fans. Lin isn't close to a top point guard BUT he is much better than ray felton. Linsanity was probably the best time as a Knick fan since 2000 so that is the reason why so many fans still like him which is understandable

Is that really what you got out of Crush's post? He's highlighting how sad it is that we pay more attention to a player on ANOTHER team getting a high +/- stat (however useful that stat is) than we do a player on our own team. Hardcore Melo fans? C'mon....

You obviously did not got that much about Lin.

It was the most exciting time for knicks in 20 years.

He inspired the fan base. He gave us hope. Magic ...

He played nice not ugly basketball.

Who should we look at on the current team that would excite the fan base for the right reasons?


camby, sprewell in 99 inspired more then Lin. I remember Charlie Ward be better defensively the lin.Sorry just admit you guys are lin fans and you should have your own board or post on the team he plays on....
Justy a thought
rammagen
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3/10/2014  6:28 PM
tkf wrote:
mreinman wrote:thats fine but he does NOT suck. He is actually a very good PG for the right team. He is not built to play with players like Harden or Melo who are very good one on one players.

a lot of traditional PG's may have a difficult time playing with harden because he at times plays like PG when he is on the floor... so I can understand that..

As far as playing with carmelo. .I guess most players have a problem playing with a black hole.. not just lin..


I get it you are lin fan fine, but he would have made more in NYC then in Houston even at 2 million per yr just on endorsements.
Harden is not the issue here and neither is Melo and lin when he was here dominated the ball well into possessions unless running the pick and roll. Maybe the point should be when lin does not have to pass the ball to scores who need the ball as much as he does
CrushAlot
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3/10/2014  6:40 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
earthmansurfer wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Ha, I knew this would happen- strange you didn't post his stats in the game previous to this:


11 Pts
2 Pts
7 Pts
4 Pts
6 Pts
11 Pts
2 Pts

He was down to 16 mins a game at one point, averaged 3 Assists and 3 TOs- he is irrelevant to the Rockets, but keep the fantasy alive by only posting when he has the occasional good game!

interesting that melo being +31 in the last game despite having the flu isn't discussed but if you post a thread speculating that melo somehow caused lin to leave ny it will end up 25 pages long. Nice game by lin and a big shot but he is where the money was. In ny he would get minutes in Houston he got paid

I think Melo is doing a great job. His one downfall if I can say that, is he can't rally what we have around him. I don't know why. Perhaps he is more a complimentary type of star than a leader - fair enough.
Since this thread is about Lin, I'll just say, Lin did that. He turned a bunch of nobodies into a team here. Interesting though, that Lin still has a lot of fans here, we don't really see that much with other ex players. I really think he has that IT factor.

But, had we had Melo AND Lin on this team, I think we would have had our leader/star and Star in Melo. Too bad management went in another direction.

EMS

Look I personally don't care about Lin because Im a Knick Fan BUT I have noticed that the people who despise Lin the most are the hardcore Melo fans. Lin isn't close to a top point guard BUT he is much better than ray felton. Linsanity was probably the best time as a Knick fan since 2000 so that is the reason why so many fans still like him which is understandable
Not sure if you are implying that I hate lin or that I am a hardcore Melo fan but that wasn't my point and also isn't accurate. My point was that we have a guy doing good things here and on a knick forum he is never praised for what he does but a guy that played 35 games in the orange and blue is praised for every small triumph he has and is considered the savior that got away. I wanted Lin in NY and loved Linsanity. It was a lot of fun and got the Knicks back onto my cable. Also, my wife became a fan that watched games again which made my life nicer. That being said, there is a guy here that gets trashed constantly and is a really good player. I didn't like the Melo trade and wasn't a Melo fan. I didn't care for him and held a grudge after the fight with the Knicks but his play and the ridiculous nonsense that I read guys post on here has made a fan of him and a big defender of his. Let me ask you this, in a horrible season where a backup point guard is being championed how come there isn't a KNick thread on a Knick forum about this?
Carmelo Anthony was named Eastern Conference Player of the Week after leading the Knicks to a 3-1 week. He averaged of 29.0 points, 5.3 rebounds, 4.8 assists and 2.75 steals in 38.7 minutes.[/quote]
http://nypost.com/2014/03/10/fans-can-pick-name-of-knicks-new-d-league-team-in-white-plains/
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mreinman
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3/10/2014  6:47 PM
I don't think that praising Lin has to be interpreted as a knock on Melo
so here is what phil is thinking ....
CrushAlot
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3/10/2014  7:30 PM
mreinman wrote:I don't think that praising Lin has to be interpreted as a knock on Melo
Unfortunately most Lin praise is coupled with the wild theory that Melo somehow chased Lin out of ny. And if you are going to praise a guy that plays for another team for having his first good game in quite awhile it seems like the guy that plays for the team you root that is being praised and recognized for his accomplishments by the league might be able to get some recognition on a forum for his team.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
nyk4ever
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3/10/2014  7:40 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
mreinman wrote:I don't think that praising Lin has to be interpreted as a knock on Melo
Unfortunately most Lin praise is coupled with the wild theory that Melo somehow chased Lin out of ny. And if you are going to praise a guy that plays for another team for having his first good game in quite awhile it seems like the guy that plays for the team you root that is being praised and recognized for his accomplishments by the league might be able to get some recognition on a forum for his team.

well put

"OMG - did we just go on a two-trade-wining-streak?" -SupremeCommander
TeamBall
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3/10/2014  8:18 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
mreinman wrote:I don't think that praising Lin has to be interpreted as a knock on Melo
Unfortunately most Lin praise is coupled with the wild theory that Melo somehow chased Lin out of ny. And if you are going to praise a guy that plays for another team for having his first good game in quite awhile it seems like the guy that plays for the team you root that is being praised and recognized for his accomplishments by the league might be able to get some recognition on a forum for his team.

Does it make me a hardcore Melo fan if I agree with this post?
Knicksfan: Hypocrite league that fines players after the game for flopping but in the game and with obvious flopping they call the fouls.
Uptown
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3/10/2014  9:07 PM
TeamBall wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
mreinman wrote:I don't think that praising Lin has to be interpreted as a knock on Melo
Unfortunately most Lin praise is coupled with the wild theory that Melo somehow chased Lin out of ny. And if you are going to praise a guy that plays for another team for having his first good game in quite awhile it seems like the guy that plays for the team you root that is being praised and recognized for his accomplishments by the league might be able to get some recognition on a forum for his team.

Does it make me a hardcore Melo fan if I agree with this post?

Yes!!!!!
Uptown
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3/10/2014  9:08 PM
SwishAndDish13 wrote:
tkf wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Ha, I knew this would happen- strange you didn't post his stats in the game previous to this:


11 Pts
2 Pts
7 Pts
4 Pts
6 Pts
11 Pts
2 Pts

He was down to 16 mins a game at one point, averaged 3 Assists and 3 TOs- he is irrelevant to the Rockets, but keep the fantasy alive by only posting when he has the occasional good game!

interesting that melo being +31 in the last game despite having the flu isn't discussed but if you post a thread speculating that melo somehow caused lin to leave ny it will end up 25 pages long. Nice game by lin and a big shot but he is where the money was. In ny he would get minutes in Houston he got paid

HE IS playing for a contender in Houston.. NY is in the lottery as we speak.. not a bad decision for lin, money and a winning team.....

Prior to the Harden acquisition, they were going to be a 30 win team max. He got the best offer he could. Can't blame him, but lets not make stuff up to make it seem like anything other then that.

True...Houston would be an elite team even without Lin....
ToddTT
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3/10/2014  9:42 PM
Uptown wrote:
SwishAndDish13 wrote:
tkf wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Ha, I knew this would happen- strange you didn't post his stats in the game previous to this:


11 Pts
2 Pts
7 Pts
4 Pts
6 Pts
11 Pts
2 Pts

He was down to 16 mins a game at one point, averaged 3 Assists and 3 TOs- he is irrelevant to the Rockets, but keep the fantasy alive by only posting when he has the occasional good game!

interesting that melo being +31 in the last game despite having the flu isn't discussed but if you post a thread speculating that melo somehow caused lin to leave ny it will end up 25 pages long. Nice game by lin and a big shot but he is where the money was. In ny he would get minutes in Houston he got paid

HE IS playing for a contender in Houston.. NY is in the lottery as we speak.. not a bad decision for lin, money and a winning team.....

Prior to the Harden acquisition, they were going to be a 30 win team max. He got the best offer he could. Can't blame him, but lets not make stuff up to make it seem like anything other then that.

True...Houston would be an elite team even without Lin....

But would they be as dreamy???

Oh good lord... https://www.youtube.com/shorts/XkmGrX7O0lQ
SwishAndDish13
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3/10/2014  10:39 PM
Uptown wrote:
SwishAndDish13 wrote:
tkf wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
smackeddog wrote:Ha, I knew this would happen- strange you didn't post his stats in the game previous to this:


11 Pts
2 Pts
7 Pts
4 Pts
6 Pts
11 Pts
2 Pts

He was down to 16 mins a game at one point, averaged 3 Assists and 3 TOs- he is irrelevant to the Rockets, but keep the fantasy alive by only posting when he has the occasional good game!

interesting that melo being +31 in the last game despite having the flu isn't discussed but if you post a thread speculating that melo somehow caused lin to leave ny it will end up 25 pages long. Nice game by lin and a big shot but he is where the money was. In ny he would get minutes in Houston he got paid

HE IS playing for a contender in Houston.. NY is in the lottery as we speak.. not a bad decision for lin, money and a winning team.....

Prior to the Harden acquisition, they were going to be a 30 win team max. He got the best offer he could. Can't blame him, but lets not make stuff up to make it seem like anything other then that.

True...Houston would be an elite team even without Lin....

I'm not sure if you're joking or not but the team he signed on to play with was awful.
Marcala12
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3/10/2014  10:39 PM
mreinman - are you Asian? all jokes aside, please answer that question.
mreinman
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3/10/2014  10:44 PM
Marcala12 wrote:mreinman - are you Asian? all jokes aside, please answer that question.

are you polish?

so here is what phil is thinking ....
Marcala12
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3/10/2014  11:27 PM
mreinman wrote:
Marcala12 wrote:mreinman - are you Asian? all jokes aside, please answer that question.

are you polish?

are you ashamed or something? why can't you proudly tell me that you're an Asian man? Is it because it would make your bias obvious? Jeremy has one of the worst contracts in the NBA, the Rockets put him on the market and nobody wanted him. What he's done in the last two playoffs is a total embarrassment. He's a very inconsistent backup point guard. So for someone to make a serious case that one of the best teams in the league should focus more on using the scrub than placating HArden...i mean that goes beyond the bias of being a fan. And that's why I guessed that you were Asian, and that's why I was right.
mreinman
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3/10/2014  11:32 PM
Marcala12 wrote:
mreinman wrote:
Marcala12 wrote:mreinman - are you Asian? all jokes aside, please answer that question.

are you polish?

are you ashamed or something? why can't you proudly tell me that you're an Asian man? Is it because it would make your bias obvious? Jeremy has one of the worst contracts in the NBA, the Rockets put him on the market and nobody wanted him. What he's done in the last two playoffs is a total embarrassment. He's a very inconsistent backup point guard. So for someone to make a serious case that one of the best teams in the league should focus more on using the scrub than placating HArden...i mean that goes beyond the bias of being a fan. And that's why I guessed that you were Asian, and that's why I was right.

You are a loser with bad reading comprehension, and, you are a bad guesser.

If someone likes Lin it means they are asian? How dumb and racist is that?

Btw, I am jewish and did not go to harvard. SMH

I will not even address your comments because they are so out there.

so here is what phil is thinking ....
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