Bonn1997 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:he's done what you can ask. Despite his low assist totals if you watch the games (some here dont) you see Melo passes a ton. Then when nobody shoots the ball gets back to him with 6 seconds left and its iso get a Melo shot time.

He's become one of the best 3 point shooters in the league. He pulling down career high rebounding #s (pretty sure he's a top 20 rebounder)

The guy plays his ass off. I have no doubt that if we had Melo and Ewing together in their prime we would be looking at a 2-3 rings easy.

wrong again.. tied for 24th with like 5 other guys..

A lot of knick players play their asses off. this team is not good collectively.

I have no doubt that if we had Melo and Ewing together in their prime we would be looking at a 2-3 rings easy.

That knick team was a gritty defensive bunch.. Ewing and Oakley would have punched carmelo in the head.. he would not last with that group of MEN

Yeah, and any front-court player that plays almost 40 min is going to be among the leaders in RPG.
In rebounds per 36 min, he drops to a pedestrian 61st place (31st out of 45 qualified PFs).

that's because melo is a tweener. in fact without a great pick and roll point guard amare becomes a tweener too.

two tweeners in the frontcourt would never have worked. what was melo thinking?

Can't communicate logically with people who refuse to give credit where credit is due.

And who else exactly plays their ass off besides Melo this year?

He's refusing to give Melo credit for rebounding at the rate of an average forward?

I guess we should look at Durant's numbers differently because he averages a bunch of minutes. About 40 seconds less per game than Melo actually. As if being able to play at high level for almost 40 MPG isn't something to value and admire.

Think logically for a second man.

melo doesn't play at a high level for 40 minutes. he loafs during a major part of games and is often not guarding the more difficult assignments.

he needs to try and be a leader and set an example. instead he is treated like a primadonna. just once i would love him to say "i want to focus on defense and shutting down the other teams best player." just once i would love for him to take ownership of this losing season. "i am responsible for this team not playing as well as it should and i need to figure that out" instead of continuing to play the way he plays which keeps him in also-ran status.

Not everyone is a leader. Doesn't make him a bad basketball player.

i never have said even once that he is a bad basketball player. he is certainly not a bum or a stiff.

what i have always said is that he is overrated and vastly overpaid for what he brings to the table. as a tweener he is always going to be a liability one way or another. and this makes him much closer to a zero-sum level player than teams can afford if the goal is winning it all.

additionally, he is not in supreme shape and he does not make others better... and he doesn't even mesh well with others.

I don't think you have evidence to back any of that up. He's averaging 40 minutes a game putting up amazing offensive numbers. You can't do that if you're out of shape. There are 2 players on offense better than him...LeBron and Durant.

And responding by saying "he's certainly not a bum or stiff" is as back handed a compliment as it gets.

You don't have to like the player or think he's right for the team. But to just ignore how special a talent he is make you look silly.

Back-handed? You just said that you thought he felt Melo was a bad player. He's just repeating your language.

Why do you always feel the need to defend Dk7th and TKF?

I find it extremely odd that you always seem to swoop in for these two like an overprotective mother

Because they contribute a lot and get needlessly picked on by a few who contribute nothing but hate toward critical comments here. It's not just me though. You saw several people immediately defend TKF in the other thread today. I think more people are catching on.
If you see a dog getting beaten, don't you help? The only part of the analogy that doesn't work is that Dk and TKF can defend themselves but they're still innocent victims of a few here who hate any and all criticism of Melo.

I honestly don't see it and I think you're exaggerating a bit just to paint those two as victims. Jrod, Fish, Tkf and DK7 are always bumping heads..everyone else seem to be on the fence.

regardless...I was genuinely curious and appreciate the respond

Maybe it's an exaggeration but TKF and DK do stick to basketball while the guys on the other side just name call half the time.

yes its an exaggeration.

That will never happen unless he takes a paycut for 2015 in NYK

Lebron could opt out this summer, why did he not announce it?

There was no need to make that announcement prior to the season starting and to create a distraction but Melo is what he is, SELFISH, always playing the VICTIM ROLE

We lack talent on the team because of his need to force a trade for an extra year of salary, just so he can OPT OUT OF IT....
Dolan payed a big price to trade for him, stuck by him vs everyone, and has tried do everything to build around him given the circumstances

gunsnewing wrote:Exactly.

I ask the peoe who always defend Melo and pretend he is the victim here. Do you think Melo saying what he said before the season started had no adverse effects on his teammates and coaches?

Melo needs to stop doing these one on one interviews. He always winds up saying something ridiculously stupid. He can't help himself. Stick to the stock msg post game conferences

Guns what is the plan if Melo leaves? tell me what do you and Dolan have in mind? You have no plan When Melo leaves it will be another 15 years before we compete again like last year Ohh unless you trust Dolan to make it happen.

How does anyone develop cohesion and confidence playing with someone who scores as effortlessly as Anthony does and always believes he is the better option, no matter the circumstances?

-Harvey Araton

He requires players that have huge egos, rock solid confidence under pressure and diverse skill sets to compensate for his scoring droughts.

In college you can win a championship with two stars

Melo never learned that to win a ring in the NBA, you need all five.

misterearl wrote:One of the great scoring machines in N.B.A. history, Anthony has played undeniably hard and gone on binges that are even harder to believe. But beyond the standard knock on him — he doesn’t make players around him better — is the fair question of whether he actually makes them worse.

How does anyone develop cohesion and confidence playing with someone who scores as effortlessly as Anthony does and always believes he is the better option, no matter the circumstances?

-Harvey Araton

the entire article is worth providing a link to:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/sports/basketball/for-knicks-no-respite-on-the-court.html?hpw&rref=sports&_r=0

he's saying what i have been saying but it's nice to hear a real pro write about it.

dk7th wrote:

misterearl wrote:One of the great scoring machines in N.B.A. history, Anthony has played undeniably hard and gone on binges that are even harder to believe. But beyond the standard knock on him — he doesn’t make players around him better — is the fair question of whether he actually makes them worse.

How does anyone develop cohesion and confidence playing with someone who scores as effortlessly as Anthony does and always believes he is the better option, no matter the circumstances?

-Harvey Araton

the entire article is worth providing a link to:

http://www.nytimes.com/2014/02/27/sports/basketball/for-knicks-no-respite-on-the-court.html?hpw&rref=sports&_r=0

he's saying what i have been saying but it's nice to hear a real pro write about it.

fully agree. Melo the best player, and hardest working this year, but, totally reject the 'victim' role, and Araton addresses that head on.

RonRon wrote:Melo produces numbers but he IS NOT THAT GOOD, not unless he can be surrounded by other great players or extreme depth
However, he has made it known that he will opt out of his contract this summer already
My guess, is he already knows he is leaving....

That will never happen unless he takes a paycut for 2015 in NYK

Lebron could opt out this summer, why did he not announce it?

There was no need to make that announcement prior to the season starting and to create a distraction but Melo is what he is, SELFISH, always playing the VICTIM ROLE

We lack talent on the team because of his need to force a trade for an extra year of salary, just so he can OPT OUT OF IT....
Dolan payed a big price to trade for him, stuck by him vs everyone, and has tried do everything to build around him given the circumstances

GOOD POINT...

tkf wrote:

Papabear wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:Exactly.

I ask the peoe who always defend Melo and pretend he is the victim here. Do you think Melo saying what he said before the season started had no adverse effects on his teammates and coaches?

Melo needs to stop doing these one on one interviews. He always winds up saying something ridiculously stupid. He can't help himself. Stick to the stock msg post game conferences

Papabear Says

Guns what is the plan if Melo leaves? tell me what do you and Dolan have in mind? You have no plan When Melo leaves it will be another 15 years before we compete again like last year Ohh unless you trust Dolan to make it happen.

what is your plan if he stays? to have another 15 years like this one?

Bonn1997 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Swishfm3 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:he's done what you can ask. Despite his low assist totals if you watch the games (some here dont) you see Melo passes a ton. Then when nobody shoots the ball gets back to him with 6 seconds left and its iso get a Melo shot time.

He's become one of the best 3 point shooters in the league. He pulling down career high rebounding #s (pretty sure he's a top 20 rebounder)

The guy plays his ass off. I have no doubt that if we had Melo and Ewing together in their prime we would be looking at a 2-3 rings easy.

wrong again.. tied for 24th with like 5 other guys..

A lot of knick players play their asses off. this team is not good collectively.

I have no doubt that if we had Melo and Ewing together in their prime we would be looking at a 2-3 rings easy.

That knick team was a gritty defensive bunch.. Ewing and Oakley would have punched carmelo in the head.. he would not last with that group of MEN

Yeah, and any front-court player that plays almost 40 min is going to be among the leaders in RPG.
In rebounds per 36 min, he drops to a pedestrian 61st place (31st out of 45 qualified PFs).

that's because melo is a tweener. in fact without a great pick and roll point guard amare becomes a tweener too.

two tweeners in the frontcourt would never have worked. what was melo thinking?

Can't communicate logically with people who refuse to give credit where credit is due.

And who else exactly plays their ass off besides Melo this year?

He's refusing to give Melo credit for rebounding at the rate of an average forward?

I guess we should look at Durant's numbers differently because he averages a bunch of minutes. About 40 seconds less per game than Melo actually. As if being able to play at high level for almost 40 MPG isn't something to value and admire.

Think logically for a second man.

melo doesn't play at a high level for 40 minutes. he loafs during a major part of games and is often not guarding the more difficult assignments.

he needs to try and be a leader and set an example. instead he is treated like a primadonna. just once i would love him to say "i want to focus on defense and shutting down the other teams best player." just once i would love for him to take ownership of this losing season. "i am responsible for this team not playing as well as it should and i need to figure that out" instead of continuing to play the way he plays which keeps him in also-ran status.

Not everyone is a leader. Doesn't make him a bad basketball player.

i never have said even once that he is a bad basketball player. he is certainly not a bum or a stiff.

what i have always said is that he is overrated and vastly overpaid for what he brings to the table. as a tweener he is always going to be a liability one way or another. and this makes him much closer to a zero-sum level player than teams can afford if the goal is winning it all.

additionally, he is not in supreme shape and he does not make others better... and he doesn't even mesh well with others.

I don't think you have evidence to back any of that up. He's averaging 40 minutes a game putting up amazing offensive numbers. You can't do that if you're out of shape. There are 2 players on offense better than him...LeBron and Durant.

And responding by saying "he's certainly not a bum or stiff" is as back handed a compliment as it gets.

You don't have to like the player or think he's right for the team. But to just ignore how special a talent he is make you look silly.

Back-handed? You just said that you thought he felt Melo was a bad player. He's just repeating your language.

Why do you always feel the need to defend Dk7th and TKF?

I find it extremely odd that you always seem to swoop in for these two like an overprotective mother

Because they contribute a lot and get needlessly picked on by a few who contribute nothing but hate toward critical comments here. It's not just me though. You saw several people immediately defend TKF in the other thread today. I think more people are catching on.
If you see a dog getting beaten, don't you help? The only part of the analogy that doesn't work is that Dk and TKF can defend themselves but they're still innocent victims of a few here who hate any and all criticism of Melo.

I honestly don't see it and I think you're exaggerating a bit just to paint those two as victims. Jrod, Fish, Tkf and DK7 are always bumping heads..everyone else seem to be on the fence.

regardless...I was genuinely curious and appreciate the respond

Maybe it's an exaggeration but TKF and DK do stick to basketball while the guys on the other side just name call half the time.

TKF and DK save the name calling for Melo....There's a toilet paper roll of derogatory names (among other things) they have for him and only him which makes it pretty hard not to believe they don't have a bias toward Melo