Then you better hope the STARPHUCHS he recruits which aren't that appealing in 2015 gel

I can definitely see the argument of just trading him and starting over with picks and developing our own STARPHUCHS that come together and play as a team but I just don't see Dohlan going that route

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:$17-$23mil throughout the 5yr duration. Take or leave

Lite on the first 2-3yrs to give us a chance to add talent

We already tried a 4 year period of building around him at $20 mil per, though. If Dolan couldn't do that in his prime, how is he going to do that with Melo in his 30s? I'm even reluctant with the $15 mil figure.

You can't consider that a fair outlook when Amare took up 20+mil of the cap space to provide nothing.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:$17-$23mil throughout the 5yr duration. Take or leave

Lite on the first 2-3yrs to give us a chance to add talent

We already tried a 4 year period of building around him at $20 mil per, though. If Dolan couldn't do that in his prime, how is he going to do that with Melo in his 30s? I'm even reluctant with the $15 mil figure.

You can't consider that a fair outlook when Amare took up 20+mil of the cap space to provide nothing.

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:$17-$23mil throughout the 5yr duration. Take or leave

Lite on the first 2-3yrs to give us a chance to add talent

We already tried a 4 year period of building around him at $20 mil per, though. If Dolan couldn't do that in his prime, how is he going to do that with Melo in his 30s? I'm even reluctant with the $15 mil figure.

You can't consider that a fair outlook when Amare took up 20+mil of the cap space to provide nothing.

Actually, it's not a fair outlook if you're assuming Dolan won't repeat his mistakes.

HaHa, then it wouldn't matter what salary Carmelo were to receive if those are the moves made to build with him. The extra money saved from his contract will just be used to overpay someone else.

That is the problem. This organization loves dancing with fire instead of developing their own cheap talent. Now we gotta hope Melo and rondo and the rest gel. Love is going to Lakers and Aldridge staying with the Blazers

Give me a sec to think which is the next Amare type player we will settle for to ensure ticket sales....

gunsnewing wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:Even with Melo taking a pay cut going into 2015 the best course of action would be the Knicks tanking(by trading what they can for picks or letting contacts just expire) in 2015 adding the highest possible lottery pick as well as 2 max free agents. Melo taking a pay cut does nothing for next season. And if we make moves adding bad contracts and giving up future picks along in order to upgrade Bargnani and Felton type players then we would be putting ourselves in the same situation.

So the plan would have to be to go all in for 2015 off season and Melo would have to understand that. It may even be better for Melo to opt in and finish this current contract. And then become a free agent in 2015 and adjust his salary in order to accommodate the other players we would try to bring.

You think Melo and the Knicks are Davy enough to do that? Chances are Melo takes less next year and we trade Amare and Bargs for malcontents and injury riddled players and are stuck for another 5-10yrs in cap hell

Given Knicks history, NO they aren't Davy enough. If they put together a plan like that though then that would give me hope for the Knicks as a franchise. If they end up doing what you just said then we are pretty much screwed until maybe Dolan passes the Knicks on to his offspring who happens to have an better sense of the future.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:NY teams always overpay for some reason...Who wants to put up with the unnecessary scrutiny....Yankees paid a guy 155 mil that never threw a pitch in the majors, not to mention all the others they overpaid for...Melo taking a pay cut might not matter...The Knicks need a plan...The only way I see out of this is if Melo recruits some one else to come here...If Melo bolts, who else would want to come here...We will have to forever overpay to get quality players...

The difference is that the Yankees have a track record of success and The Knicks dont. I mean i love teh Knicks but i wouldnt wish the past 14 years on any team

They still have to overpay to get players here...Baseball has no cap...

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

holfresh wrote:NY teams always overpay for some reason...Who wants to put up with the unnecessary scrutiny....Yankees paid a guy 155 mil that never threw a pitch in the majors, not to mention all the others they overpaid for...Melo taking a pay cut might not matter...The Knicks need a plan...The only way I see out of this is if Melo recruits some one else to come here...If Melo bolts, who else would want to come here...We will have to forever overpay to get quality players...

The difference is that the Yankees have a track record of success and The Knicks dont. I mean i love teh Knicks but i wouldnt wish the past 14 years on any team

They still have to overpay to get players here...Baseball has no cap...

Thats True baseball doesnt have a cap but the Knicks have had a bad track record the past 15 years or so

holfresh wrote:NY teams always overpay for some reason...Who wants to put up with the unnecessary scrutiny....Yankees paid a guy 155 mil that never threw a pitch in the majors, not to mention all the others they overpaid for...Melo taking a pay cut might not matter...The Knicks need a plan...The only way I see out of this is if Melo recruits some one else to come here...If Melo bolts, who else would want to come here...We will have to forever overpay to get quality players...

This pretty much sums up a huge part of the reason the Knicks will never prosper by seeking free agents instead of growing talent: Nobody wants to play here so you have to overpay. The salary cap ensures that we will not be able to fill out a roster with talent as top tier players will always demand $20 million plus to play here.

New York is no longer the Mecca of basketball that it has always prided itself on being. Instead we have a joke of a franchise and a league policy that makes it very hard to compete without draft picks.

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Insane, Insane, these threads...You won't do what u are asking Melo to do..Play for $1.00..He has made generational money already..Tell that to the well over 50% of NBA players who are now broke..

so the reason why he should get max money is because you figure he is going to lose it all eventually?

LMAO nice work champ

Are u going to work tomorrow and ask for a paycut to help the company??

first of all i own. secondly my business has experienced significant growth and i have created a healthy work environment where personal and professional growth is also possible. translation: i am winning both as a businessman and mentor.

now, before you start yanking yourself with whatever weak sauce response you are going to make, lets be clear: you believe that dolan and melo are winners because they make tens of millions of dollars. you have stated this many many times now so everyone here knows what side of the bread is buttered for you in terms of the whole business of sport. yet the knicks are sickening when it comes to winning as a whole and having a healthy work environment where young people can develop as players and people.

dolan, thomas, warkentein, mills, houston, marbury, anthony, smith, and even woodson and grunwald simply disgust me. yet they make money so they are winners in your mind. i guess since brown and d'antoni made money here they too are winners? LMAO. oh i almost forgot: there's that nagging little detail, namely, that the whole purpose of sport is to win championships, titles.

i will repeat: carmelo anthony and james dolan both love money more than they hate losing. yes or no?????

it's a yes/no question champ!

my answer is "yes" and because it is "yes," that both dolan and anthony are hypocrites and losers.

Well if u own a business then you should know what the bottom line is..This is a business first and foremost ..Bron/Wade etc taking a paycut in a tax free state along with winning a Championship bring in endorsement dollars at a higher clip..It's a no brainer for them to make that move business wise..Everyone likes money even you..You aren't being altruistic owning a biz..You are being a hypocrite gunning after profits yourself and asking someone else to forgo it..

it's possible to both be profitable and help others become successful.

what about the yes/no question

It's a silly question..If you ask me if I want a Knick Championship in my lifetime or 10 mil, I'm taking the money..My answer Melo and Dolan doesn't matter because you have blinders on..I have no problem with an owner willing to spend all his money to win...Dolan is trying to do that...You just can't see it..He is misguided yes, but he wants to win...Dolan had it all arse backwards...He should have had Isiah rebuild it from scratch, Isiah could draft and knew talent..Donny and MDA turned out to be a horror show and we are here because of it..Dolan is trying..Dolan wants to make money too..

Melo wants to win too but wants his cash too..He will take a paycut but won't play for free as most of u fans want..U are not realistic..

wait are speaking as a fan or putting yourself in melo's shoes.

as a fan i would rather take 10 million than see the knicks win that is a no-brainer.

U still think Melo should take 11 mil per only??

ideally yes of course. however the situation will not be ideal and he should be negotiating a contract worth somewhere in the 13-14 million dollar range. if he hates losing more than he loves money then this is an acceptable figure, giving the knicks a better chance of bringing in decent talent.

The term hate losing more than money makes zero sense and one has nothing to do with the other..

it's not a term it's a phrase and the phrase is "hate losing more than love money." and there is nothing contradictory or "silly" about it. in fact dismissing it as "silly" is just a weak sauce way of avoiding the yes/no question.

does melo love money more than he hates losing?

and if the answer is "no" then how much should he ask to be compensated if he wants to win?

i say 13-14 million a year. anything more is self-defeating and therefore outrageous... and being self-defeating is something he is really good at.

so-- if you answer "no" then what is fair compensation if he is genuine in his desire to win a title?

please don't go the <crickets> route... it's a really bad look.

It's silly..U are making leaping assumptions that no one actually knows...Melo will take a pay cut to come back but does that mean he likes winning now??.It's silly...Your number that you think is an acceptable number is also outrageous...It does not mean you will win...What's the point of taking a pay cut if guys like Chandler gets overpaid..If we resigned Gallo, you know he was be making upwards of 14 mil...You might think he deserves every penny..

Look it, let's get real...Melo will take less to come back..That is not the important issue here at all..That will not be the driving factor for Melo to resign...The Knicks, no Dolan has to have a plan..And I can't blame Melo for this approach...He could take all that Dolan is willing to offer and run to the bank but he says he won't do that...What has to happen is a change of culture, a plan...No more goobers like MDA who isn't really a coach but a guy with a system having favorites like Gallo in here..No more Donnie stupid presentation to Bron that made us the laughing stock of the guys who thought they were in the running for Bron...No more overpaying for guys like Chandler to cover up a flawed coach approach to the game...No more Marbs having run of the Garden for his personal use...Let's run the Knicks like a first class organization and attract the players we need to win...If I was Melo and I'm taking a pay cut to stay, I need to know we are making the right moves to get us on a winning track...Thats the bottom line..This nonsense that went down over the last 10 years has to stop or I'm taking my show on the road...It can't continue...Chandler is making feaking 14 mil a year...Amare got 100 mil on bad knees and no one saying anything because they love MDA and Donnie...It has to stop....

So continue to cloud the real issue...Fire a few guys..Talk rebuild and "losing assets"..."Does he hate losing more than he loves of money"...Leave Dolan up to his same devises...

get real? wow. this is an insane post. first off what was melo's plan in coming here in the first place? there was no plan because he wanted money and he did not give a rat's ass how things ended up in new york as a result. that's always dolan's "plan" and between the two of them they shoulder almost all of the blame for failure. no, wait-- he recently admitted that it would take a few seasons to rebuild once he came. so he did have a plan. so the dude is either a feckless moron or a hypocrite, perhaps both. please put that in your pipe and smoke it cause the stuff u be doing now is a helluva drug. really all he has done is continue to promote the very culture u bemoan.

u don't ever want to admit that anthony is a huge part of the problem.

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:

dk7th wrote:

holfresh wrote:Insane, Insane, these threads...You won't do what u are asking Melo to do..Play for $1.00..He has made generational money already..Tell that to the well over 50% of NBA players who are now broke..

so the reason why he should get max money is because you figure he is going to lose it all eventually?

LMAO nice work champ

Are u going to work tomorrow and ask for a paycut to help the company??

first of all i own. secondly my business has experienced significant growth and i have created a healthy work environment where personal and professional growth is also possible. translation: i am winning both as a businessman and mentor.

now, before you start yanking yourself with whatever weak sauce response you are going to make, lets be clear: you believe that dolan and melo are winners because they make tens of millions of dollars. you have stated this many many times now so everyone here knows what side of the bread is buttered for you in terms of the whole business of sport. yet the knicks are sickening when it comes to winning as a whole and having a healthy work environment where young people can develop as players and people.

dolan, thomas, warkentein, mills, houston, marbury, anthony, smith, and even woodson and grunwald simply disgust me. yet they make money so they are winners in your mind. i guess since brown and d'antoni made money here they too are winners? LMAO. oh i almost forgot: there's that nagging little detail, namely, that the whole purpose of sport is to win championships, titles.

i will repeat: carmelo anthony and james dolan both love money more than they hate losing. yes or no?????

it's a yes/no question champ!

my answer is "yes" and because it is "yes," that both dolan and anthony are hypocrites and losers.

Well if u own a business then you should know what the bottom line is..This is a business first and foremost ..Bron/Wade etc taking a paycut in a tax free state along with winning a Championship bring in endorsement dollars at a higher clip..It's a no brainer for them to make that move business wise..Everyone likes money even you..You aren't being altruistic owning a biz..You are being a hypocrite gunning after profits yourself and asking someone else to forgo it..

it's possible to both be profitable and help others become successful.

what about the yes/no question

It's a silly question..If you ask me if I want a Knick Championship in my lifetime or 10 mil, I'm taking the money..My answer Melo and Dolan doesn't matter because you have blinders on..I have no problem with an owner willing to spend all his money to win...Dolan is trying to do that...You just can't see it..He is misguided yes, but he wants to win...Dolan had it all arse backwards...He should have had Isiah rebuild it from scratch, Isiah could draft and knew talent..Donny and MDA turned out to be a horror show and we are here because of it..Dolan is trying..Dolan wants to make money too..

Melo wants to win too but wants his cash too..He will take a paycut but won't play for free as most of u fans want..U are not realistic..

wait are speaking as a fan or putting yourself in melo's shoes.

as a fan i would rather take 10 million than see the knicks win that is a no-brainer.

U still think Melo should take 11 mil per only??

ideally yes of course. however the situation will not be ideal and he should be negotiating a contract worth somewhere in the 13-14 million dollar range. if he hates losing more than he loves money then this is an acceptable figure, giving the knicks a better chance of bringing in decent talent.

The term hate losing more than money makes zero sense and one has nothing to do with the other..

it's not a term it's a phrase and the phrase is "hate losing more than love money." and there is nothing contradictory or "silly" about it. in fact dismissing it as "silly" is just a weak sauce way of avoiding the yes/no question.

does melo love money more than he hates losing?

and if the answer is "no" then how much should he ask to be compensated if he wants to win?

i say 13-14 million a year. anything more is self-defeating and therefore outrageous... and being self-defeating is something he is really good at.

so-- if you answer "no" then what is fair compensation if he is genuine in his desire to win a title?

please don't go the <crickets> route... it's a really bad look.

It's silly..U are making leaping assumptions that no one actually knows...Melo will take a pay cut to come back but does that mean he likes winning now??.It's silly...Your number that you think is an acceptable number is also outrageous...It does not mean you will win...What's the point of taking a pay cut if guys like Chandler gets overpaid..If we resigned Gallo, you know he was be making upwards of 14 mil...You might think he deserves every penny..

Look it, let's get real...Melo will take less to come back..That is not the important issue here at all..That will not be the driving factor for Melo to resign...The Knicks, no Dolan has to have a plan..And I can't blame Melo for this approach...He could take all that Dolan is willing to offer and run to the bank but he says he won't do that...What has to happen is a change of culture, a plan...No more goobers like MDA who isn't really a coach but a guy with a system having favorites like Gallo in here..No more Donnie stupid presentation to Bron that made us the laughing stock of the guys who thought they were in the running for Bron...No more overpaying for guys like Chandler to cover up a flawed coach approach to the game...No more Marbs having run of the Garden for his personal use...Let's run the Knicks like a first class organization and attract the players we need to win...If I was Melo and I'm taking a pay cut to stay, I need to know we are making the right moves to get us on a winning track...Thats the bottom line..This nonsense that went down over the last 10 years has to stop or I'm taking my show on the road...It can't continue...Chandler is making feaking 14 mil a year...Amare got 100 mil on bad knees and no one saying anything because they love MDA and Donnie...It has to stop....

So continue to cloud the real issue...Fire a few guys..Talk rebuild and "losing assets"..."Does he hate losing more than he loves of money"...Leave Dolan up to his same devises...

get real? wow. this is an insane post. first off what was melo's plan in coming here in the first place? there was no plan because he wanted money and he did not give a rat's ass how things ended up in new york as a result. that's always dolan's "plan" and between the two of them they shoulder almost all of the blame for failure. no, wait-- he recently admitted that it would take a few seasons to rebuild once he came. so he did have a plan. so the dude is either a feckless moron or a hypocrite, perhaps both. please put that in your pipe and smoke it cause the stuff u be doing now is a helluva drug. really all he has done is continue to promote the very culture u bemoan.

u don't ever want to admit that anthony is a huge part of the problem.

Wasn't the plan to team up with Amare??..Then they had space to add another piece at Chandler's salary..That was the plan to me..What if management was smart enough to add a PG instead of Chandler, might have been different...But this all went bad for u when Gallo wasn't in the plan, did it??

Papabear Says

Everyone needs to get used to the fact that Melo will be in the plans for the Knicks for the next 5 years and you might as well accept it or find another team to root for. Melo is not the problem. He is the answer because player will come here because of him. The Amare deal went wrong and we should have had an option on Amears 4th and 5th year and we didn't. Melo is the the answer weather some people like it or not. If Melo leaves we will go into a 7 year drought maybe longer than that. Unless you trust Dolan to do the right thing.