jrodmc wrote:So my question again is why drop it at all?

Did you take the time to read the story? Listen to the interview?

I didn't realize how many people actually knew, and I was afraid that someone would tell or leak something out about me,” he told ESPN. “I want to own my truth. … No one else should tell my story but me.”

Think about the big the media storm would be if mid season someone started talking about it.

Nalod wrote:

playa2 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Ahhhhh, sexual preference. Parades. Coming Out.
If you wanted to be accepted as normal, why does it have to be turned into a freak show every time? How's it working out for Jason Collins?

It's been almost 20 years since Time Magazine had Ellen Degeneris coming out and it's still a national media day event?

Spare me the comparisons to race, because they don't work.
Suppose he came out and said he's an animist or a Scientologist? What difference does that make to a football player?

Play for attention. Anyone talking about Michael Sams before this?

Many will read what you just said and close their eyes, people are pushing their agenda in small increments so most won't even notice the big picture. Nobody has been denied to play pro sports by just keeping it to themselves.

So if we just do the math,you will see they are demanding something from heterosexual community to APPROVE of and not just tolerate and get along with.

Mike Sams and those he's speaking for are using the media for their agenda, not that big of a secret if you are in touch with how people use the media for their own personal agenda.

No, not approve, just not discriminated.

The NFL Union like any other union has to abide by the laws that protect the citizens of this country.

The rest of it is just noise.

THings change. I have a friend who was pretty much homophobic, as was his father, and his father, etc.....then his son came out. We sat and talked and pretty much he said he loved his son and would have to learn. I asked him if his grandfather would have turned his back on him if he had come out. He said his mother would have made sure "dad" would not have.

This is whats happening now. Be careful with comments because many families have member who are coming out and being accepted and loved regardless. People don't have have to keep up the false front anymore and hide in shame of who they are. Players have gay brothers and sisters, parents, cousins, and they themselves will have gay children.

At some point homophobic statements will become offensive becasue they are calling out someones child and that just don't fly.

This is one opportunity where you should just let him keepin' on, keepin' on. Based on what he said in a separate thread I created, he is very obviously homophobic. It's time he confronted that. And I'm not trying to condemn him outright either because I've done some pretty reprehensible things in that department.

When I was in 3rd grade, kids randomly decided that a particular student was "gay" and decided to ostracize him for the entire year. Much of our stupidity manifested itself in the form of verbal assaults that clearly broke the kid down mentally. It got so bad that he developed a stutter and tremors.

One day, the mob decided to get physical with him and like the putz I was as a kid, joined in. We picked up the kid by his hands and feet and then threw him down a +20 flight staircase. After that, the kid stopped coming to school and I never knew what happened to him. The entire time I knew what I was doing was wrong but didn't have the balls to stand up for the kid. I just remember thinking that I had to hate him because he was gay and being so terrified that they might accuse me of being gay that I just went with the flow; playing my part. To this day, I'm wracked with guilt about how I contributed to scarring that poor kid for life. The irony in all of this is that the kid probably was not even gay. I can't imagine what people who ARE actually gay have gone through.

playa2 wrote:So if we just do the math,you will see they are demanding something from heterosexual community to APPROVE of and not just tolerate and get along with.

PLAYERS WERE GAY AND PLAYING IN THE LEAGUE ALREADY, WHY THE BIG ANNOUNCEMENT TO EVERYBODY OUTSIDE OF NFL SCOUTS AND HIS COLLEGE TEAMMATES ?

They want people to approve not just accept it, because teams already in the past had gay players.

Wake up people !

Yeah, they were gay and had the hide the fact from everyone including teammates, front office personnel, etc. You realize how hard that must be with a spotlight constantly on you? The question is, why should they have to?

jrodmc wrote:

fishmike wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

jrodmc wrote:Ahhhhh, sexual preference. Parades. Coming Out.
If you wanted to be accepted as normal, why does it have to be turned into a freak show every time? How's it working out for Jason Collins?

It's been almost 20 years since Time Magazine had Ellen Degeneris coming out and it's still a national media day event?

Spare me the comparisons to race, because they don't work.
Suppose he came out and said he's an animist or a Scientologist? What difference does that make to a football player?

Play for attention. Anyone talking about Michael Sams before this?

Is it Michael Sams turning this into a "freakshow" or the media? It seems like you're accusing the former for it and not the latter, given the tone of your post.

And sexual orientation absolutely is equitable to race. It is, after all, an element of the human character. And like any element of the human character, people can choose to hate and disparage it because of arbitrary reasons. As I've already pointed out, people can still be fired today for being gay....just like how minorities were barred from jobs before the 60s. It's just not frequently discussed in those terms because (1) minorities can be extremely homophobic, which forces many not to embrace this embattled community and (2) the LGTB community is projected to be smaller than most racial minorities, which makes it easier to beat up on them. The fact is that they are the same.

kinda like the old white guy who says he's not racist. Minorities can do whatever they want. So long as its in their own neighborhood, and not with white women. But yea... that guy's not racist. He's just saying "to each his own."

Freakshow? If anything he spared everyone that. He could have just done well at the combine, played well, earned a spot then when he has his first big game on a Monday night and they interview him at the post game dropped it then. Instead he probably wanted to avoid the freakshow, let everyone know ahead of time and go be who he is. A gay dude who plays football.

So my question again is why drop it at all? Can you tell me you or anyone else would really care or need to know what he does with his weenie?
Do we need hetero ID cards?

Why the jump from preference to race? Because someone told you so?

The effect's of stupidity don't equate the cases. Stop for a second and just think it through.
Do you get to prefer your race?

You don't "prefer" your "sexual orientation" either. You continue to ignore that fact to uphold your bias'.

Nobody cares if anyone approves or not, its about laws and discrimination!!!!

Is it a big deal when a women becomes ceo of a company anymore? Nope, but when it first happend it was a big deal. GM hired a women, its a big deal because shes the first to run a car company. Was it a big deal when the Merrill Lynch Hired a black CEO as the first to run a major Brokerage company? Whose the second? Not a big deal.

Since Ellen Degeneres came out nobody cares who comes out in the entertainment industry anymore. Do they even "come out" anymore?

Obama the first black president, big deal. The second won't be.

Its not "approval" playa, you don't have to approve anything but there are laws to adhere to.

And society will adjust.

IN fact, the Missouri QB came out and said he supported him but not approaved and he is getting some crap about it. Why even announce that you approve or not? Why not just say "I support him as a person" and be the end of it?

How about this, My daughter wants to marry a black guy, I say I will support them but don't approve. What am I really saying? Really Im to be judged on my actions so why even say I don't approve?

The path to progress is not whether We accept "Minority" because thats really what we are talking about. Heterosextuals dominate the landscape and its not important whether I accept something that is not natural to me. If we are talking about sextual preferance and while I am not attracted to men, Im also not attracted to short fat ugly women. I can't not hire one, I can't beat them up, I can't discriminate against them. Neither can the NFL.

ONly one issue is will Sams hurt ticket sales? Not in many cities. Will viewers not watch a national game because of him? I think it boasts ratings.

How media handles it will be very interesting to see. If he handles it correctly I can well imagine the novilty of it all will die down quickly.

jrodmc wrote:Ahhhhh, sexual preference. Parades. Coming Out.
If you wanted to be accepted as normal, why does it have to be turned into a freak show every time? How's it working out for Jason Collins?

It's been almost 20 years since Time Magazine had Ellen Degeneris coming out and it's still a national media day event?

Spare me the comparisons to race, because they don't work.
Suppose he came out and said he's an animist or a Scientologist? What difference does that make to a football player?

Play for attention. Anyone talking about Michael Sams before this?

I'm not a football guy but you know I love these "culture war" threads.

Are all media stories that last more than a day "freak shows" or only particular ones? Was "The Decision" a freak show? Or is there something else about this story that makes it particularly freaky?

The kid was born in 1990. It sounds like being gay really hasn't been that big of a deal in his life, and I'm sure he'd rather not make a big deal of it. But he's leaving the warm embrace of college for a very public career in a league where his future co-workers hash these issues out in various media quotes and tweets.

Some sports fans just hate the whole backstory human interest layer sports has to have these days, and would rather go back to the days of just watching the game and stats... I can respect that. I think people who don't want to hear about this story — and actually seem agitated by it versus just not interested — are reacting out of disgust because "I don't want two men kissing thrown in my face" etc. But if you are watching Kobe kiss his wife in the tunnel and don't go "yuck" or actually *dig* that, seems hypocritical to me, especially since we got some very detailed accounts on that guy's heterosexual activities... some still illegal in a couple states!

And come on, what about pro cheerleaders? There is implied sexuality there. Let's be grown up about the assumptions in American sports.

This guy is just saying "don't be surprised if you see me kicking it with my boyfriend at the mall on an off-day and I know you old farts lose your mind over this crap."

Nalod wrote:

Nobody cares if anyone approves or not, its about laws and discrimination!!!!

Is it a big deal when a women becomes ceo of a company anymore? Nope, but when it first happend it was a big deal. GM hired a women, its a big deal because shes the first to run a car company. Was it a big deal when the Merrill Lynch Hired a black CEO as the first to run a major Brokerage company? Whose the second? Not a big deal.

Since Ellen Degeneres came out nobody cares who comes out in the entertainment industry anymore. Do they even "come out" anymore?

Obama the first black president, big deal. The second won't be.

Its not "approval" playa, you don't have to approve anything but there are laws to adhere to.

And society will adjust.

IN fact, the Missouri QB came out and said he supported him but not approaved and he is getting some crap about it. Why even announce that you approve or not? Why not just say "I support him as a person" and be the end of it?

How about this, My daughter wants to marry a black guy, I say I will support them but don't approve. What am I really saying? Really Im to be judged on my actions so why even say I don't approve?

The path to progress is not whether We accept "Minority" because thats really what we are talking about. Heterosextuals dominate the landscape and its not important whether I accept something that is not natural to me. If we are talking about sextual preferance and while I am not attracted to men, Im also not attracted to short fat ugly women. I can't not hire one, I can't beat them up, I can't discriminate against them. Neither can the NFL.

ONly one issue is will Sams hurt ticket sales? Not in many cities. Will viewers not watch a national game because of him? I think it boasts ratings.

How media handles it will be very interesting to see. If he handles it correctly I can well imagine the novilty of it all will die down quickly.

IN fact, the Missouri QB came out and said he supported him but not approaved and he is getting some crap about it. Why even announce that you approve or not? Why not just say "I support him as a person" and be the end of it?

How about this, My daughter wants to marry a black guy, I say I will support them but don't approve. What am I really saying? Really Im to be judged on my actions so why even say I don't approve?

playa2 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

playa2 wrote:The basketball player came out after he retired John Amaechi he went on the circuit.

Former football player came out after he had retired too.

Jason Collins came out when he wasn't on a NBA roster so he like the others didn't really lose any money, they just let it be known they played pro sports and was gay.

Now we have a young man who haven't made a red cent yet, why would he risk the higher salary by potential being drafted lower because of him coming out......unless he has something or someone to back him up legally as a community.

Everybody wasn't born yesterday, the NFL is being challenged with this in your face approach now that the WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING. WHAT A STRATEGY !

Are you commending those guys for trying to hide who they are until they were out of the spotlight? What are you saying?

What I'm saying NardDogNation it isn't about trying to hide anything,wow is that all you got out of my comments ???

In small increments the gay community is trying to persuade heterosexuals to approve of their sexual preference, not accept them as they are.

Those players knew by coming out they would have lost money or been treated differently, that's why they wouldn't have made a sound about their lifestyle while playing.

This guy is being used as a pawn because a some sort of civil case can come against the NFL if he isn't drafted. I'm sure there are a lot of lawyers who are chomping on the bit to grab the case knowing the NFL has BILLIONS.

He's not the first gay pro ballplayer but that isn't enough, if you have an agenda to influence people to approve of your lifestyle off the field.

Just play ball and be gay Mike Sam's you wouldn't be the 1st.

Yeah but he'll be the first player known to be gay during his career. I'm not sure what is wrong with that or why he needs to keep it quite. What happens if he meets Mr.Right while he is still playing? Is he not suppose to marry him until after his career to help hide the fact that he is gay? Meanwhile, other heterosexual players are indirectly very public about their heterosexuality e.g. when they do get married, when they showcase their families, etc. Why shouldn't Sams be entitled to all of this?

Again, I fail to see what is wrong with what Sams is doing. I actually commend him for doing it because he'll take a lot of flack for being the first one to be publicly gay during his career.

We are not attracted to all women are we?

Old Homophobe thought was gay men were perverse toward children. We have learned all kinds of men have such tendancies.

We build anger towards those misconceptions and were allowed.

Ignorance breeds fear. Fear breeds anger. Anger fuels violence.

Jason Collins' genetic clone Jarron prefers women. Why? I don't know.

There is a big part of nature in this, but choice, preferences and experiences obviously come into play.

So I personally don't base my opinion on "well they can't change it". I just don't see the threat LBGT people inherently pose to society.

playa2 wrote:

fishmike wrote:

playa2 wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

playa2 wrote:The basketball player came out after he retired John Amaechi he went on the circuit.

Former football player came out after he had retired too.

Jason Collins came out when he wasn't on a NBA roster so he like the others didn't really lose any money, they just let it be known they played pro sports and was gay.

Now we have a young man who haven't made a red cent yet, why would he risk the higher salary by potential being drafted lower because of him coming out......unless he has something or someone to back him up legally as a community.

Everybody wasn't born yesterday, the NFL is being challenged with this in your face approach now that the WHOLE WORLD IS WATCHING. WHAT A STRATEGY !

Are you commending those guys for trying to hide who they are until they were out of the spotlight? What are you saying?

What I'm saying NardDogNation it isn't about trying to hide anything,wow is that all you got out of my comments ???

In small increments the gay community is trying to persuade heterosexuals to approve of their sexual preference, not accept them as they are.

Those players knew by coming out they would have lost money or been treated differently, that's why they wouldn't have made a sound about their lifestyle while playing.

This guy is being used as a pawn because a some sort of civil case can come against the NFL if he isn't drafted. I'm sure there are a lot of lawyers who are chomping on the bit to grab the case knowing the NFL has BILLIONS.

He's not the first gay pro ballplayer but that isn't enough, if you have an agenda to influence people to approve of your lifestyle off the field.

Just play ball and be gay Mike Sam's you wouldn't be the 1st.

when the acceptance is there you can make this statement. Until then its a fart in the wind. Nothing there so this simply isnt reality.

Maybe not your reality, people have beliefs and they don't have to approve others beliefs, but they can accept & get along with them.

That's what pro athletes have been doing for years. You know something is unnatural when you are afraid to tell people of your personal sexual preference.

When has it been the norm for a good married man feels comfortable telling the world he's sleeping around with thousands of women ? He would hide it because he's knows that's not the natural way to live being married. Same with a male with a male, or female with female.

When the morality of a society starts to deteriorate(coming out not feeling shame), you better believe the quality of life for that society will soon follow.

Look around you!

Playa, it seems that you believe an out gay man is shameful. I don't. Doesn't seem like there is any place to compromise.

The "playa" who is hiding his infidelity from his wife is still probably telling his homies about "this freak in Denver" etc. He hides them from the person he is doing wrong by. The shame is specific.

Michael Sam wasn't afraid to tell his teammates and classmates, but I guess since he had a girlfriend in high school and didn't grow up like the Cosbys...