tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

tkf wrote:

fishmike wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:guys that do things that melo does (such as forcing us to blow the kitty in the denver trade), guys like this are supposed to be solutions.

Melo is not a solution, he only imagines he is when he sleeps at night,

and that's why he's the problem, that's it, man.

was hea solution last year? Seemed like a pretty good solution to me then.

Jettison Melo and what problem does that solve? You still have the same crappy roster, same crappier front office and same crappy coach. Except now you have nobody on the roster than can win NBA games. Didnt we go through 10+ years of that?

no he wasn't fish, because he is still here and we suck... you are making an argument for jason kidd, novak, Kurt thomas and rasheed.. they were , moreso kid was crucial to our 54 wins and fast start...

they are gone and carmelo is still here and we are horrible...

Except now you have nobody on the roster than can win NBA games. Didnt we go through 10+ years of that?

why are you being so shortsighted? you are acting like it is carmelo or knick basketball is done.. and that is so odd considering that we are one of the worst teams in the league with him.. Pleas make some sense of what you are saying fish... if you have no faith in dolan fine.. I don't, but keeping carmelo isn't going to change how inept dolan is..

you are acting like it is carmelo or knick basketball is done.. that is not me acting. That is proof ove the last 15 years. When Melo is here we win and go to the playoffs. When he's not we win 20-30 games. Every team Melo has ever played on has won. Now in year 12 the team stinks so he's the problem. Oh how you must have suffered last year! I can imagine your joy when Indy beat us.

ok fish, because in 5 years or less that ends.. maybe even this year, we might not make the playoffs.. then what fish..

So let me ask this question.. do you look at this as an opportunity to sign melo to a 5 year deal and be average, or next year to tank, organically, and get a top pick.. what do you see as an opportunity fish? now I am not for purposely tanking, but the chances are good that we would be bad, that is ok, evaluate the young guys, bring in some young talent.. as long as there isn't dysfunction...

fish you know what we also have 15 years of...first round exits from carmelo, and 15 years of overpaying so called supestars, from zach, to amare to carmelo... no more so called saviors... that is no longer good fish...

The most entertaining part of your posts is counting how many times you say "fish".

One fish, two fish, red fish, blue fish

Bonn1997 wrote:There's no such thing as "the" problem. There's just a list of problems. Searching for "the" problem is a naive, oversimplified outlook. If we had a top 5 player in the league instead of Melo, we'd be better but still bad. Or if we just kept our cap room and hadn't done the Melo trade, we'd at least have a lottery pick.

There's no such thing as "the" answer. There's just a list of answers. Searching for "the" answer is a naive, oversimplified outlook.

Finestrg wrote:I don't blame Melo at all. Dude's playing his ass off -- putting up the usual big scoring numbers (albeit at a lower shooting %) and pulling down double-digit rebounds almost every night. He's not the problem -- the talent around him, save for a couple fo guys here & there, has grossly underperformed...I just fear we may never be able to surround him with the proper talent. We definitely don't have the right coach for the job -- even our top players are seeing that now. Then there's the thought that Melo has a lot of mileage on his body -- will he hold up physically for the life of this next big contract? We might be better off dealing away our best players while they still have value and executing a true rebuild.

how completely inept is our basketball operation? how the **** do these people have jobs?

Clean wrote:The question proposed by the thread title is loaded. No one is going to see Melo as THE problem. No one player or coach the problem. I am probably one of the biggest Woody haters here and I don't think he is the problem. They are all PART of the problem.

Since this thread is focused on Melo I will only talk about on him. The problem with most fans are they are quick to forget the past. They see Melo playing his heart out now and think to themselves I feel sorry for this man. What they forget is that Melo played a part in the situation we are currently facing. Let's start with the last year he had in Denver. Melo had 3 choices on how to handle that situation.

Option 1: Play out the year and sign with us as a free agent.
Result: Knick get their man and only have to give up a few players like Chandler to get under the cap.

Option 2: tell Denver you will not return next year and leak to the media that you will only resign with the Knicks.
Result: Melo gives Knicks great chance to get him cheaper than normal in a trade due to the leverage that he will only sign with us.

Option 3: Be cryptic and vague hinting that you will not resign with Denver and that you are not even going to consider heading to free agency. Leave the options open to resigning with more than 1 team even though the Knicks were his first choice.
Result: Denver were able to use the Nets as leverage to rob the Knicks blind.

Those assets that we had to give up to get Melo could have been used to get CP3 when he was a free agent. If we failed to get CP3 it would have given us the ability to get Hardon when OKC wanted to trade him.

A small way he added to our current situation is with his ego. After dogging it for a few months to get MDA fired the Knicks were hopeless with no PG much like we are now. We got lucky and Linsanity shook up MSG. During Linsanity Melo did an interview in which he dismissed the fans fears that when he came back the team would begin to lose again. To paraphrase he basically said i don't have to fit Lin and the current style they have to fit me. Do you think anyone of the current pacers would ever say that if in the same exact position Melo was in? Not wanting to take a step back from the limelight was partly to blame for Lin not coming back. No matter what you say if Melo wanted Lin on the team he would be on the team.

Before this season the first thing Melo said is he would like to test free agency. What good can possibly come from that statement? Why would he not just keep that to himself?

Until mid to late December Melo was going ISO and chuck crazy. The Knicks ran the most ISO's of every team and was dead last in ISO plays that ended in a score. People see him playing amazingly since 2014 and forget the bad stuff he did during this season in 2013. I love the way he is playing now but to say there is no way he was part of the problem is simply having selective amnesia. You just refuse to remember some of the things he has done in the past.

Frame this.

I ways enjoy reading your posts. Mainly because you have a strong grip on reality

Knicks22 wrote:

Clean wrote:The question proposed by the thread title is loaded. No one is going to see Melo as THE problem. No one player or coach the problem. I am probably one of the biggest Woody haters here and I don't think he is the problem. They are all PART of the problem.

Since this thread is focused on Melo I will only talk about on him. The problem with most fans are they are quick to forget the past. They see Melo playing his heart out now and think to themselves I feel sorry for this man. What they forget is that Melo played a part in the situation we are currently facing. Let's start with the last year he had in Denver. Melo had 3 choices on how to handle that situation.

Option 1: Play out the year and sign with us as a free agent.
Result: Knick get their man and only have to give up a few players like Chandler to get under the cap.

Option 2: tell Denver you will not return next year and leak to the media that you will only resign with the Knicks.
Result: Melo gives Knicks great chance to get him cheaper than normal in a trade due to the leverage that he will only sign with us.

Option 3: Be cryptic and vague hinting that you will not resign with Denver and that you are not even going to consider heading to free agency. Leave the options open to resigning with more than 1 team even though the Knicks were his first choice.
Result: Denver were able to use the Nets as leverage to rob the Knicks blind.

Those assets that we had to give up to get Melo could have been used to get CP3 when he was a free agent. If we failed to get CP3 it would have given us the ability to get Hardon when OKC wanted to trade him.

A small way he added to our current situation is with his ego. After dogging it for a few months to get MDA fired the Knicks were hopeless with no PG much like we are now. We got lucky and Linsanity shook up MSG. During Linsanity Melo did an interview in which he dismissed the fans fears that when he came back the team would begin to lose again. To paraphrase he basically said i don't have to fit Lin and the current style they have to fit me. Do you think anyone of the current pacers would ever say that if in the same exact position Melo was in? Not wanting to take a step back from the limelight was partly to blame for Lin not coming back. No matter what you say if Melo wanted Lin on the team he would be on the team.

Before this season the first thing Melo said is he would like to test free agency. What good can possibly come from that statement? Why would he not just keep that to himself?

Until mid to late December Melo was going ISO and chuck crazy. The Knicks ran the most ISO's of every team and was dead last in ISO plays that ended in a score. People see him playing amazingly since 2014 and forget the bad stuff he did during this season in 2013. I love the way he is playing now but to say there is no way he was part of the problem is simply having selective amnesia. You just refuse to remember some of the things he has done in the past.

couldn't say it better myself. Captured it perfectly. He is playing very hard this year, but he lost me after the needless Denver trade, unable to coexist on floor with Amare, the quitting on MDA, and, seemingly failing to embrace the excitement of Lin (I'm not saying LIn is great, simply, Melo seemed unamused by the PG oriented offense under Lin). Super gifted scorer, rebounding great this year, great effort, but, overall seems he was unable, or unwilling to play with a coach, a PG, and a fellow superstar (however diminished Amare is). Talented scorer? absolutely, but, lots of broken glass....

Great posts!

I get that a team needs a top player but its time to move on from the Memo experiment.

gunsnewing wrote:

Clean wrote:The question proposed by the thread title is loaded. No one is going to see Melo as THE problem. No one player or coach the problem. I am probably one of the biggest Woody haters here and I don't think he is the problem. They are all PART of the problem.

Since this thread is focused on Melo I will only talk about on him. The problem with most fans are they are quick to forget the past. They see Melo playing his heart out now and think to themselves I feel sorry for this man. What they forget is that Melo played a part in the situation we are currently facing. Let's start with the last year he had in Denver. Melo had 3 choices on how to handle that situation.

Option 1: Play out the year and sign with us as a free agent.
Result: Knick get their man and only have to give up a few players like Chandler to get under the cap.

Option 2: tell Denver you will not return next year and leak to the media that you will only resign with the Knicks.
Result: Melo gives Knicks great chance to get him cheaper than normal in a trade due to the leverage that he will only sign with us.

Option 3: Be cryptic and vague hinting that you will not resign with Denver and that you are not even going to consider heading to free agency. Leave the options open to resigning with more than 1 team even though the Knicks were his first choice.
Result: Denver were able to use the Nets as leverage to rob the Knicks blind.

Those assets that we had to give up to get Melo could have been used to get CP3 when he was a free agent. If we failed to get CP3 it would have given us the ability to get Hardon when OKC wanted to trade him.

A small way he added to our current situation is with his ego. After dogging it for a few months to get MDA fired the Knicks were hopeless with no PG much like we are now. We got lucky and Linsanity shook up MSG. During Linsanity Melo did an interview in which he dismissed the fans fears that when he came back the team would begin to lose again. To paraphrase he basically said i don't have to fit Lin and the current style they have to fit me. Do you think anyone of the current pacers would ever say that if in the same exact position Melo was in? Not wanting to take a step back from the limelight was partly to blame for Lin not coming back. No matter what you say if Melo wanted Lin on the team he would be on the team.

Before this season the first thing Melo said is he would like to test free agency. What good can possibly come from that statement? Why would he not just keep that to himself?

Until mid to late December Melo was going ISO and chuck crazy. The Knicks ran the most ISO's of every team and was dead last in ISO plays that ended in a score. People see him playing amazingly since 2014 and forget the bad stuff he did during this season in 2013. I love the way he is playing now but to say there is no way he was part of the problem is simply having selective amnesia. You just refuse to remember some of the things he has done in the past.

Frame this.

I ways enjoy reading your posts. Mainly because you have a strong grip on reality

+1 good post...

Silverfuel wrote:You guys advocating blowing it up are out of your minds. We have to rebuild around Melo. Bringing him help should be primary objective. He still has 3 to 4 good years left. Trading him means you are once again going through several Trevor Ariza and Gallanari type draft picks. Bring in a talent instead of shipping it out. Melo is the only real talent on this team right now. And you want to trade him for what, draft picks? Cap space? What are you going to do with that? Look for a Melo type player right? Well you have him here right now.

right now you can give me ariza, and gallo and those types of players and I can build a good team.. their current teams are examples of such....

Look for a Melo type player right? Well you have him here right now.

no, we would look for a paul george type player....

BRIGGS wrote:

tkf wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:

Clean wrote:The question proposed by the thread title is loaded. No one is going to see Melo as THE problem. No one player or coach the problem. I am probably one of the biggest Woody haters here and I don't think he is the problem. They are all PART of the problem.

Since this thread is focused on Melo I will only talk about on him. The problem with most fans are they are quick to forget the past. They see Melo playing his heart out now and think to themselves I feel sorry for this man. What they forget is that Melo played a part in the situation we are currently facing. Let's start with the last year he had in Denver. Melo had 3 choices on how to handle that situation.

Option 1: Play out the year and sign with us as a free agent.
Result: Knick get their man and only have to give up a few players like Chandler to get under the cap.

Option 2: tell Denver you will not return next year and leak to the media that you will only resign with the Knicks.
Result: Melo gives Knicks great chance to get him cheaper than normal in a trade due to the leverage that he will only sign with us.

Option 3: Be cryptic and vague hinting that you will not resign with Denver and that you are not even going to consider heading to free agency. Leave the options open to resigning with more than 1 team even though the Knicks were his first choice.
Result: Denver were able to use the Nets as leverage to rob the Knicks blind.

Those assets that we had to give up to get Melo could have been used to get CP3 when he was a free agent. If we failed to get CP3 it would have given us the ability to get Hardon when OKC wanted to trade him.

A small way he added to our current situation is with his ego. After dogging it for a few months to get MDA fired the Knicks were hopeless with no PG much like we are now. We got lucky and Linsanity shook up MSG. During Linsanity Melo did an interview in which he dismissed the fans fears that when he came back the team would begin to lose again. To paraphrase he basically said i don't have to fit Lin and the current style they have to fit me. Do you think anyone of the current pacers would ever say that if in the same exact position Melo was in? Not wanting to take a step back from the limelight was partly to blame for Lin not coming back. No matter what you say if Melo wanted Lin on the team he would be on the team.

Before this season the first thing Melo said is he would like to test free agency. What good can possibly come from that statement? Why would he not just keep that to himself?

Until mid to late December Melo was going ISO and chuck crazy. The Knicks ran the most ISO's of every team and was dead last in ISO plays that ended in a score. People see him playing amazingly since 2014 and forget the bad stuff he did during this season in 2013. I love the way he is playing now but to say there is no way he was part of the problem is simply having selective amnesia. You just refuse to remember some of the things he has done in the past.

Frame this.

I ways enjoy reading your posts. Mainly because you have a strong grip on reality

+1 good post...

That is a great post. The variables of acquiring Carmelo Anthony were so significant--that it has broken the back of the franchise. We had to use young good players picks AND cap for one player--and his name is NOT shaq in his prime. Now it will cost us the price of two players in cap space to keep 1.

That is it in a nutshell for me. Losing a lottery pick to Denver in this year's draft is the final straw in how I feel and evaluate Melo's Knick career

I want that pick back

So if I was Mills I would be having that talk with him right now and determine whether to keep or resign him

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:If Melo takes a significant cut and hovers around the $17-21mil range for 5yrs I would consider resigning him. Then you can use the remaining money on players who cover his difficiences and help the team win. Instead of paying Melo closer to $30mil and watching him try to do it alone with NBDL players for another 5yrs

So if I was Mills I would be having that talk with him right now and determine whether to keep or resign him

17 is close. 21 is too much. You can get guys like Millsap and Harden together for that price.

Melo is playing harder than any other player on our team, and that's why he's the max player on our team. Does that mean we will win a championship with him? Hell No, because he is not a great student of the game. Good.... not great.