Clean wrote:

meloanyk wrote:Exactly right Holfresh. Lamenting about failing to overpay Lin is total nonsense. Kid cashed in big but he isnt even a top twenty point if you even categorize him as such.. Avgs 4 assist and three to's which is one of the worst in league to go along with his crappy D. He's more of a hybrid imo. Knicks certainly need a better pg than Felton but would also certainly need alot better pg than Lin so the whole issue is moot notwithstanding the stupid monies he's owed

The last time I checked Lin was the league leader in drives to the hoop per game and tied with the mount of points on drives to the lane. I am not sure how the numbers are now since his injury. This is EXACTLY what we need right now. A person to break down the D and not settle for jumpers. Him driving to the hoop is what made Linsanity. No one else on the team did what he did. The drives are what gave Novak all those open 3's. Lin leaving was why Novak had a much more difficult time getting good looks, no one had to leave their man to help defend against the drive.

meloanyk wrote:

Clean wrote:

meloanyk wrote:Exactly right Holfresh. Lamenting about failing to overpay Lin is total nonsense. Kid cashed in big but he isnt even a top twenty point if you even categorize him as such.. Avgs 4 assist and three to's which is one of the worst in league to go along with his crappy D. He's more of a hybrid imo. Knicks certainly need a better pg than Felton but would also certainly need alot better pg than Lin so the whole issue is moot notwithstanding the stupid monies he's owed

The last time I checked Lin was the league leader in drives to the hoop per game and tied with the mount of points on drives to the lane. I am not sure how the numbers are now since his injury. This is EXACTLY what we need right now. A person to break down the D and not settle for jumpers. Him driving to the hoop is what made Linsanity. No one else on the team did what he did. The drives are what gave Novak all those open 3's. Lin leaving was why Novak had a much more difficult time getting good looks, no one had to leave their man to help defend against the drive.

djsunyc wrote:there is no way to justify it - not matching on lin was a pure idiotic basketball move. it was a wasted asset. surprising some are still making excuses for the org to pass on him. teams let their guys go and get offers frequently and then match (like the pacers did with hibbert recently). team didn't have a pg. dude was ballin'. was young and was a f'n cash cow. just another stupid move from the organization - on par with trading unprotected picks.

Andrea Barngani is making 11MM this year and 12MM last year, we had to give up a valuable 1st round pick to get him. The Knicks were fine with giving Novak 4 years and 16MM and Camby 3 years at 10MM, two guys that brough little to the table. They are paying Udrih 1.2MM. So doing the math here, is as follows.

Lin made 5.2MM the past two years and jumps to 14.9 in his third year. So factoring in the Knicks thinking it was absurd to pay the kid that was a marketing dream, a fan favorite and someone that everyone loved watching and got the most out of Novak, Jefferies, Fields and Chandler. It's comical that Andrea can't grab 5rbs and shots 43% and is a liability and the Knicks don't use that rational now that they are paying a stiff that brings little to nothing to the table.

I watched the Rockets game last night, Lin was efficient and in control and picked his spots and shot a high percentage. Had nothing to do with Harden. He scored in one on one situation and got teammates countless open shots. Which is what we need here. Someone who takes the ball out of Smith, Shumpert, Melo's hands and gets them wide open looks and keeps the ball moving.

MS wrote:The point of this thread is that the Knicks need a point guard. Dolan and everyone in the Knicks organization said it was absurd to sign Lin because it would cost the Knicks 50MM in luxury tax.

Andrea Barngani is making 11MM this year and 12MM last year, we had to give up a valuable 1st round pick to get him. The Knicks were fine with giving Novak 4 years and 16MM and Camby 3 years at 10MM, two guys that brough little to the table. They are paying Udrih 1.2MM. So doing the math here, is as follows.

Lin made 5.2MM the past two years and jumps to 14.9 in his third year. So factoring in the Knicks thinking it was absurd to pay the kid that was a marketing dream, a fan favorite and someone that everyone loved watching and got the most out of Novak, Jefferies, Fields and Chandler. It's comical that Andrea can't grab 5rbs and shots 43% and is a liability and the Knicks don't use that rational now that they are paying a stiff that brings little to nothing to the table.

I watched the Rockets game last night, Lin was efficient and in control and picked his spots and shot a high percentage. Had nothing to do with Harden. He scored in one on one situation and got teammates countless open shots. Which is what we need here. Someone who takes the ball out of Smith, Shumpert, Melo's hands and gets them wide open looks and keeps the ball moving.

Yes. He gets easy baskets for his teammates and sets them up. Only scores when he needs too.

It was a stupid decision not to match. Simple. They had the piece that they needed to advance and they LET HIM GO FOR NOTHING!!!!

But thats the problem when you have an owner micro managing basketball decisions. And why he rather have Isiah or Steve Mills to manage it for him, but still within his control. He makes decisions on emotions and not on basketball knowledge. I understand why Dolan didn't match Lin's contract. I don't understand why Lin agreed to change his contract and add the poison pill. That decision may cost him in the long run. When they added that poison pill, it sent a message to Dolan (and Knick fans) that Lin is above NY and Dolan wasn't having that.

Obviously the way this season has played out, if Dolan knew the future, he would've matched Lins contract. But at the time, he took a gamble (like all entrepreneurs do), and decided not to match. Instead, use that extra money to add other players, that (as we all know) did not pan out (Felton, Udrih, Bargs, etc.....)

What I don't understand is why do we continue to talk about spilled milk. It's over, time to move forward. Dolan is only going to add players that want to play in NYC. That wants to be a Knick. And used Lin as an example....Dolan is like the Godfather....You can't double cross him and get away with it. Now Lin's value is extremely low, and his career is no where close to where it would've been if he simple excepted the original offer, that NY was prepared to match. I think most fans are forgeting that Dolan was ready to match Houstons original offer.

blkexec wrote:Dolan not picking up Lins contract was more emotional and less financial. Dolan believes if you really want to be a knick (cough..cough..JR Smith), then you take less or the minimum, and Dolan will take care of you (cough...cough...JR's playing time and green light to shoot any shot). Lin had an opportunity to take a little less, still make more in the long run, and continue his Linsanity dream in NYC. Lin and his agent chose to move on by adding the poison pill, which they knew would be tough for NY to match. Why pay someone millions when you know they dont want you? At that point it was more about principal and pride than money. It wasn't about the money. NYC sells it self. And Dolan only wants players that wants to be here (cough..cough...Melo).

But thats the problem when you have an owner micro managing basketball decisions. And why he rather have Isiah or Steve Mills to manage it for him, but still within his control. He makes decisions on emotions and not on basketball knowledge. I understand why Dolan didn't match Lin's contract. I don't understand why Lin agreed to change his contract and add the poison pill. That decision may cost him in the long run. When they added that poison pill, it sent a message to Dolan (and Knick fans) that Lin is above NY and Dolan wasn't having that.

Obviously the way this season has played out, if Dolan knew the future, he would've matched Lins contract. But at the time, he took a gamble (like all entrepreneurs do), and decided not to match. Instead, use that extra money to add other players, that (as we all know) did not pan out (Felton, Udrih, Bargs, etc.....)

What I don't understand is why do we continue to talk about spilled milk. It's over, time to move forward. Dolan is only going to add players that want to play in NYC. That wants to be a Knick. And used Lin as an example....Dolan is like the Godfather....You can't double cross him and get away with it. Now Lin's value is extremely low, and his career is no where close to where it would've been if he simple excepted the original offer, that NY was prepared to match. I think most fans are forgeting that Dolan was ready to match Houstons original offer.

I still think Dolan doesn't match the contract looking back on it. Whatever it was he was holding against Lin then, he'd still be holding it now.

MS wrote:The point of this thread is that the Knicks need a point guard. Dolan and everyone in the Knicks organization said it was absurd to sign Lin because it would cost the Knicks 50MM in luxury tax.

Andrea Barngani is making 11MM this year and 12MM last year, we had to give up a valuable 1st round pick to get him. The Knicks were fine with giving Novak 4 years and 16MM and Camby 3 years at 10MM, two guys that brough little to the table. They are paying Udrih 1.2MM. So doing the math here, is as follows.

Lin made 5.2MM the past two years and jumps to 14.9 in his third year. So factoring in the Knicks thinking it was absurd to pay the kid that was a marketing dream, a fan favorite and someone that everyone loved watching and got the most out of Novak, Jefferies, Fields and Chandler. It's comical that Andrea can't grab 5rbs and shots 43% and is a liability and the Knicks don't use that rational now that they are paying a stiff that brings little to nothing to the table.

I watched the Rockets game last night, Lin was efficient and in control and picked his spots and shot a high percentage. Had nothing to do with Harden. He scored in one on one situation and got teammates countless open shots. Which is what we need here. Someone who takes the ball out of Smith, Shumpert, Melo's hands and gets them wide open looks and keeps the ball moving.

I agree with the PG need 100%. Fat-ton also screwed us by putting back on the weight he worked hard to lose last year. Now if the Knicks were serious about competing they would have tried to get an actual starting PG and brought Fat-ton off the bench (when actually in shape is well suited for that role). They signed Beno and Prigs so u knew they were rolling with Fat-ton. He didn't do much to reward their faith. Reason I asked what the point was, was bc bringing up Lin gets too much unproductive conversation. Also, given our roster. I don't thing we'd be very productive. We have poor shooters on the wings so he'd have no where to go. Defenses zone us and beg us to shoot. Knicks should have looked for a defensive upgrade at PG (Lin doesn't really bring that too the table). Watching the defensive situation at point on a nightly basis sickens me.

holfresh wrote:

toad wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

gunsnewing wrote:It's ok we have Raymond Felton

Merry Christmas every body!

I remember last year when one person here whose name starts with an H kept saying Felton was better than Lin.

The only time Lin comes up is when Felton gets hurt...Isn't that amazing...The Lin supporters didn't utter a peep last year until Felton went down...Felton was MVP of the Boston series and where was Lin, on the bench hurt as usual...Please step up when Felton isn't hurt...

Stop being such a bytch and just admit you were wrong. It's silly. No one at this point thinks Felton is better than Lin. Not even you.

It's not even the point..Lin didnt want to play for the Knicks...He wanted his own stage..You guys are jilted lovers living in the past..He signed a contract so it was difficult for the Knicks to match..Good riddance in my eyes...But no, yearn for the lost love..Dude got beat out by a journeyman...

Lets recap what happened when Lin became a FA:
Knicks immediatly contact Steve Nash looking to use Shumpert, Fields and picks to get Nash. No contact with Lin aside from the message to 'go get a contract'

So your team starts your FA period by publicly pursuing another player at the same position.

No the Knicks have no info to work on aside from rumors and agent talk, and Woody says "we will match any offer" so Houston makes it a big offer.

I find this notion that Lin priced his OWN way out or somehow screwed Dolan over with this magical 2nd offer from Houston laughable. Holfresh... its simply not accurate. The Knicks not only didnt offer Lin anything they publicly courted Steve Nash. Only after the Raptors blew up their plan to sign and trade Fields did the Knicks realize the Nash thing had no chance.

what was Lin supposed to do? Sit around and really hope the Knicks have 3rd thoughts and decide to pursue him? If the Knicks showed Lin the same interest and dedication they showed to JR, Lin would be a Knick today. Blame Dolan. Its so obvious and clear

MS wrote:Like every move or blatant lie this franchise delivers to it's fan base this one is a gem. Granted his salary would have been inflated, but Barngani cost the team more in luxury tax, losses and draft selections and slows the game down and makes things unwatchable. Feeling slighted, our overweight, small minded pathetic excuse of a man holds a vendetta over a kid accepting a contract while still giving Isiah the benefit of the doubt. It's a shame that this team has a built in cant lose policy with filling the building.

Watching the rockets play last night the kid is an elite penetrator is scoring at an efficient base and getting ride open shots for his teammates. Interestingly he would have fit perfect with hardaway, shumpert, Chandler, melo, Smith, Marin and Amare. All we have now is a bunch of pretend tough guys that lose their cool after they put forth no effort.

Leave it to the Knicks to let an asset go while willingly being the only squad in the league to give unprotected picks. It's only a matter of time before we package Hardaway to make up for not signing the point guard this team needed and our owner locking us into an eternal 5 seed.

Both of those clowns, melo and smith are part of the "earn your stripes" brigade... Not sure how lin would have been with those guys as carmelo especially didn't seem too comfortable without having the ball in his hands most of the time. I do think the other guys including tyson chandler would have greatly benefited... I remember how well chandler and lin ran the pick and roll...