knickscity wrote:

holfresh wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

Balroy wrote:Nixluva - I respect the hell out of you for your work on Bargnani with the videos and analysis and other things you have said but you gotta let this go. We need Woodson because for this season there isn't going to be any better coach. Everybody makes mistakes. We gotta give him love and support. Some people make fun of the pre-game passing drill. Look what happened afterward. I say brilliant. Let's go man.

But why the hell did it take so damn long to identify it as a problem and then finally work on and implement better ball movement and spacing??? Why not come up with this a lot sooner, like 10-15 games ago? Why not have the team play this way (the RIGHT WAY btw) right from the beginning? That's what I don't get.

The Heat was 8-9 to start out a couple of years ago before Spo started putting a winning formula together...Took them over a year to figure things out...The Pacers were 3-7 or 3-8? last year before they figured it out then came together at the end of the season and in the playoffs...If these coaches were in NY, because of the unrealistic expectations of fans and the media, at least one would have been fired already...I have never heard a team that hasn't played together(Bargs as he 2nd option)figure things out day one...Never...

There are some issue I take with this reasoning.....mainly the Knicks have struggled against good and bad and even worse at home.

Heat didnt struggle with the subpars at all and certainly wasnt dropping home games at the rate we did, and other than the first game of the season which was against Boston they were never below .500 that first year in any other part of that year.

Indy might be a fair comparison.

But i realize your post is about those coaches to which i agree...even with a finals appearance lots of fans wanted Spo out there and for Riley to take over.

Fans will always be fickle about stuff like that.

You are talking about much better teams than the current Knicks...First of all, the Knicks are nothing without Felton being 100%, nothing....When did Felton pulled his hammy, game 3 or so..He just started running again with pace the last two games..Chandler went down..Bargs hasn't played in two years trying regain his footing, JR is finally getting his legs under him after off season knee surgery and out the first 5 games, Shump the same thing...Amare/KMart alternating games playing 10 mis per...Bargs had to chage his game...Woody, correctly asked him to be a catch and shoot guy instead of a guy who held the ball like Melo...Rotations and seeing who fits with who..Try Beno, errr he is too slow, not pushing the pace..When is all this suppose to happened????..In camp???..Be reasonable people, please....U will enjoy the game and the team more....Woody has done a good job since taking over..Have a little patience...He isn't Pop, Doc or Phil but he is a good coach..Better than any we could get tomorrow...

I have much more to say on the new offensive wrinkle too... I will elaborate more later..But freaking kudos to Woody for figuring out how to create spacing without the old pick and roll trick...Woody is doing what the Rick Patino did with Ewing and the "Bomb Squad"...It's the best of all worlds for Melo and utilizing his unique skills...I'm thinking it's a complete fluke that Woody came up with this...Melo is getting the ball on the low post instead of the elbow...He is un-guardable there with a single SF..He destroyed Paul George there earlier there this year..He has to be doubled like Ewing...He has been making quick decisions to pass the ball out of those double teams which Ewing couldn't do...It's has the same effect as Felton getting in the lane and drawing another defender..It leaves guys open on the perimeter...It's working fellas...This can also work in the playoffs when we meet teams who can defend the pick and roll...

Later add a few cutters to the basket...

Listen, Woody took an 18-24 and tuned it into a 18-6 team...54 games won last year...People want him fired??..Unrealistic expectations..I dont get it..We lost in the second round the a team that is playing the best basketball of any team in the NBA this year..What gives????...Woody deserves this year to implement his vision based on what he has done over the last year and a half...Bargs has confidence again, thanks to Woody, Melo is playing the best ball of his career...Melo may be our best passer and Woody has figured out a way to use that skill while he can be a beast down low...Melo is bounding...10 boards in 3 qts the last two games...Lay back fellas, give Woody the chance he deserves based on merit...He earned this...

Better not remind nixluva of that.

Carmelo was deliberately (cough) playing at half speed, remember?

Holfresh - your last paragraph is required reading.

Last but not least... "the Knicks are nothing without Felton (shooting 41 per cent) being 100%, nothing."

My kingdom for Michael Carter Williams

misterearl wrote:Sheesh

Dagger wrote:I hope no one thinks (Mike Woodson) is in any way responsible for these wins

Mike Woodson is in no way responsible for these wins.

Feel better?

nixluva wrote:

misterearl wrote:Listen, Woody took an 18-24 and tuned it into a 18-6 team...54 games won last year

Better not remind nixluva of that.

Carmelo was deliberately (cough) playing at half speed, remember?

Holfresh - your last paragraph is required reading.

Last but not least... "the Knicks are nothing without Felton (shooting 41 per cent) being 100%, nothing."

My kingdom for Michael Carter Williams

Let's at least be truthful about what happened in the lockout season. MDA didn't have a full Camp or Preseason to work with his new roster. Rather than having Billups or any other decent PG, MDA started with Toney Douglas.
He also had Bibby. Let's not try and make it seem like this was an easy situation for a coach in his lame duck season in NY, with a guy you know is your replacement on the bench. Melo and STAT both had offseason without being able to work on their game or conditioning and it showed. Melo was PUTRID for most of the season. At the start Melo was having more assists but he was less effective as the season went along. I don't think he was fully committed to the idea of setting up his teammates and he let it effect his overall game.:

The Melo MDA had:
Month	MIN  FGM-FGA	FG%	3PM-3PA	3P%	FTM-FTA	FT%	REB  AST  BLK	STL  PF	  TO	PTS
Jan	35.6  8.3-21.1	.393	1.4-4.4	.311	5.4-6.8	.789	6.7  4.6  0.4	1.3  2.4  3.4	23.3
Feb	31.5  6.1-15.4	.398	0.6-2.3	.278	3.6-4.4	.829	4.0  3.4  0.5	0.8  2.4  2.1	16.5
March	32.1  6.7-16.2	.415	0.9-3.3	.268	5.1-6.5	.782	6.3  3.0  0.5	1.3  3.0  2.3	19.4
The Melo Woody had in April:
April   36.9  11.3-22.8 .495    1.9-4.2 .460    5.4-6.7 .813    7.3  3.6  0.4	1.1  3.1  2.5	29.8

Whether Melo purposely Dogged it or subliminally wasn't giving his all, dude clearly started playing better and for the most part expressed that he made up his mind to give more effort the very day MDA left. I can't give Woody credit for that!!!

MDA resigned on Mar 14th and just look at how Melo was playing just before and then after MDA resigned, notice how the assists go UP and shot attempts go DOWN for, which was something MDA was BEGGING Melo to do all year and he resisted:

Month	            MIN  FGM-FGA FG%  3PM-3PA	3P%  FTM-FTA	FT%  REB  AST  BLK  STL  PF  TO  PTS
3/21 @ PHI W 82-79   34  5-15	 .333  0-2     .000  0-1      .000   5    2    0    0    4   2   10
3/20 vsTOR W 106-87  31  5-15	 .333  1-3     .333  6-8      .750   8    5    0    3    3   2   17
3/17 @ IND W 102-88  30  6-13	 .462  1-4     .250  3-7      .429   4    3    0    0    3   3   16
3/16 vsIND W 115-100 23	 4-12	 .333  0-3     .000  4-5      .800   7    5    0    2    4   0   12
3/14 vsPOR W 121-79  25  6-12	 .500  3-6     .500  1-2      .500   2    7    0    1    1   2   16
MDA
3/12 @ CHI L 99-104  39  8-21	 .381  1-3     .333  4-4     1.000   8    3    1    2    4   2   21
3/11 vsPHI L 94-106  29  5-13	 .385  1-4     .250  11-12    .917   9    3    0    0    2   1   22
3/9  @ MIL L 114-119 37  7-17	 .412  1-2     .500  7-10     .700   5    2    2    1    1   2   22
3/7  @ SA  L 105-118 38	12-24    .500  3-7     .429  0-1      .000   2    3    0    2    5   2   27
3/6  @ DAL L 85-95   31	 2-12    .167  0-3     .000  2-4      .500   8    1    0    0    1   2   6
3/4  @ BOS L 111-115 35  8-21    .381  0-1     .000  9-10     .900   7    2    0    0    4   3   25

This is what was being said at the time by Woody and Melo:

After one memorable week as the Knicks’ interim coach, Mike Woodson would agree — even if Woodson “can’t explain” why Carmelo Anthony had little interest in hustling for Mike D’Antoni but has exerted himself for Woodson during a winning streak that reached five games Wednesday night with a fiercely contested 82-79 win over the 76ers.

Isn’t it obvious why? Anthony has had no choice after using his credibility lifeline to win his war of wills with D’Antoni.

It had to become D’Antoni’s fault that Anthony’s debut in New York, while not lacking in pomp, had precipitated an extraordinary and unflattering set of circumstances. After Anthony introduced himself by firing up jumpers as if Madison Square Garden were Rucker Park, the production of several teammates diminished and the Knicks failed to win a playoff game. About a third of the way through this lockout-shortened season, D’Antoni handed Anthony’s ball to Jeremy Lin.

Could Melo admit that any of the Knicks’ maladroitness was his fault? Not unless he was ready to be accountable for himself as well as for how much his apparent pouting affected the team.

His recent statement — “The last three games, my focus was to have an energy that I haven’t had so far this season” — was really quite amazing, coming from a player making $18.5 million this season, or the eighth-highest salary in the N.B.A. It may also have been the most honest thing he has said since becoming a Knick last season.

Contrary to popular belief, acrimony is not what plagued Melo's relationship with D'Antoni or caused Stoudemire's growing frustration. No one disliked D'Antoni. No one thought he was a bad person. It's just that some Knicks thought D'Antoni's system was an exercise in futility.[/quote]
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7688873/new-york-knicks-mike-dantoni-was-victim-own-stubbornness

CrushAlot wrote:Contrary to popular belief, acrimony is not what plagued Melo's relationship with D'Antoni or caused Stoudemire's growing frustration. No one disliked D'Antoni. No one thought he was a bad person. It's just that some Knicks thought D'Antoni's system was an exercise in futility.[/quote]
http://espn.go.com/new-york/nba/story/_/id/7688873/new-york-knicks-mike-dantoni-was-victim-own-stubbornness

This is such Melo defending BULL CRAP from SAS!!! Every other writer was taking the complete opposite position from SAS in this regard. No way that STAT felt this way when he was most successful in MDA's system his entire career. STAT was the one who has ALWAYS been saying the ball needed to move. Everyone knows he is best served in MDA's PnR style which Woody just so happens to have agreed he should have Melo and STAT run that more often. I mean come on with this GARBAGE!!! The team wasn't having a problem playing MDA's system when they were winning and basically the team was still running the system after he left. Last year this team ran PnR, SPread offense that is the basis of MDA's halfcourt offense. SAS is just an MDA HATER no matter what he says. His article bothers me cuz it's not the actual words of the players on record. Stuff I post is the actual words of the players on record plus the stats to back it up.

Knicks forward Carmelo Anthony caused a bit of a stir on Monday when he seemed to admit to trying harder under interim coach Mike Woodson than he had under previous coach Mike D’Antoni.

“I think in the last three games, my focus was to have an energy that I haven't had so far this season, especially on the defensive end,” Anthony said. “Everybody on this team knows, everybody in the world knows I can score the basketball. It's not that important to me.”

So, naturally, the subject was broached prior to tonight’s game against the Toronto Raptors. Woodson’s initial instinct was to not add fuel to the fire. In the end though, he may have done the exact opposite of that.

“I’ll say to you and I’ll say to Melo, he’s got to bring the energy now,” Woodson said. “I’m the head coach and I can’t speak for what has happened. I was a part of it, but he’s got to play harder and Amar’e’s got to play harder and everybody’s got to get us where we need to go. That’s the only way it’s going to happen. We can’t have lackluster performances out of anyone. It’s my job to continue to push and I’m going to do that.”

The answer didn’t raise an eyebrow except for the fact that Woodson was an assistant with the team for 42 games before his promotion last week. Certainly he’s had to have seen a difference in Anthony’s effort, and if so, to what does Woodson attribute that too?

“I can’t explain that,” Woodson said. “I wish I could. We probably wouldn’t be sitting in this position that we’re sitting in today, fighting for a playoff spot.”

It’s tough to say whether Woodson was implying that the Knicks wouldn’t be fighting for a playoff spot if Anthony had put in more effort defensively prior to the last three games. The Knicks are effectively tied with the Bucks for the eighth seed in the East, so that would not be out of the question.

The one thing that is certain is that Woodson is getting the defensive effort from Anthony, Jeremy Lin and everyone else, and that’s something he’ll continue to demand.

“Sure there’s a difference,” Woodson said of Anthony’s intensity. “There’s a difference with everyone. I think that sense of urgency is floating right now and it’s got to stay that way because I don’t know what Milwaukee’s gonna do and I don’t know what Philadelphia is going to do and Boston—the teams that are above us. We just got to figure out the Knicks and continue to play the way we’ve been playing.”

Woodson admitted to adding a few things schematically, but insists a lot of the improvement has centered around defending the pick and roll. Specifically he’s asked his players to switch off less frequently and Woodson added that he has seen an individual in that improvement from several players, including Anthony.

“Jeremy Lin, I think he’s done great on the ball,” Woodson said. “(Landry Fields has) been great on the ball… Melo, you know, has been pushing it, not in terms of pick and rolls, but just getting over screens and, you know, playing wing denials. I mean, it’s been a total team effort so I it’s really hard to single out everyone because everybody’s been responsible for the three-game win streak.”

One strategic choice that Woodson hasn’t changed from the D’Antoni era has been the use of a half-court trap. The only alteration has been personnel. Whereas D’Antoni would frequently use starting center Tyson Chandler in the half-court trap, Woodson has been giving those assignments to bench players like Jared Jeffries, Iman Shumpert and J.R. Smith.

“We’ve done that since Day 1,” Woodson said. “And this team has been pretty good at it. I try and instill it in the second unit, when they come in with Jared and Shump… They’re defensive guys, they’re aggressive guys that like to get after it a little bit. J.R.’s the same way. You’ve got to utilize their talents defensively by letting them trap some and getting up the floor. I just really like the way we’ve extended our defense. It’s really helped us, I think.”

Woodson has stressed that he’s not making radical changes with the Knicks, but he is clearly fine-tuning a few things and that’s been helpful through three games. Knicks fans can only hope these habits don’t die if the team hits a speed bump.

Now this year like in the past STAT and Shump pointed to the lack of ball movement as the issue, but Melo disagreed cuz he takes that personally as does Woody who basically allowed this to happen:

LOS ANGELES — Carmelo Anthony dismissed Amar’e Stoudemire’s theory the Knicks’ troubles stem from a lack of ball movement, saying the big man is barking up the wrong tree.
After each of the last three games — all losses — Stoudemire has stated a lack of ball movement has led to the Knicks’ 3-10 start as they enter Wednesday’s game against the Clippers at Staples Center.
Of course, the implication is the culprits are Anthony and J.R. Smith, both of whom have reputations for playing too much isolation ball. Anthony instead claimed the Knicks have stunk out the court on the other end.
“It’s just defense at this point,’’ Anthony said. “The easiest thing to do is try to point fingers and trying to figure out what’s going on — [like] ball movement. At the end of the day it’s defense, we’re not guarding anybody.”
The lack of moving the ball has been a staple of Stoudemire’s rhetoric since Anthony got to town. And Anthony isn’t surprised fans think Stoudemire is pointing the finger at him. Iman Shumpert also talked about “the ball sticking’’ after the Portland loss Monday.
“It’s easy to do because at the end of the day, I have the ball most of the offense,’’ Anthony said. “When you hear that, where it’s coming from, why is it being said, the real reason we’re not winning is we’re not defending. We’re not believing or trusting in one another on the defensive end.’’
Stoudemire’s point is valid in that the Knicks are last in the NBA in assists, are averaging nearly seven points less a game than last season (100.0-93.2) and are scoring 7 points less on 3-pointers than last season. Stoudemire said Monday the team isn’t having “fun’’ because the ball isn’t being passed.

Funny how as soon as he ball is moving things got better again. It happens every time with this team. How many times do we have to go thru this before we admit that it's a fact?

Clean wrote:I don't care about all these nice records during the regular season. A coaches true colors are shown in the playoffs. Woody has shown he lacks the ability to adjust and game plan effectively. This is the main reason for his lackluster playoff results.

In truth Woody's issues in NY in terms of the Playoffs come from his decision to move towards ISO BB. He actually allowed the team to increase it's already high % of ISO plays, which was the wrong way to go. The record shows that when this team goes heavy ISO the ball sticks, they play less efficient BB, they lose their energy on D and they lose games. Woody, Melo and JR are usually to blame for this when it happens. It's just the facts of the matter. Woody allows this to happen and Melo and JR have no problem just banging their heads against the wall trying to ISO their way to wins, but losing instead.

We keeps seeing the same theme since Melo has come here. Every time we get in this bind you read quotes from STAT, Shump and Tyson saying the ball needs to move!!! Melo usually chafes at this suggestion and Woody backs him up. This has been the dynamic and so IMO Woody is at fault when the Knicks go sideways and the ball sticks. He refuses to pull JR when he gets crazy ball hogging and he denies Ball Movement is an issue when it's clear Melo and JR are ball stopping too much. Anyone who denies this reality is in full on denial. Stats support this and our own eyes support that this is what happens.

misterearl wrote:Jiffy Popovich

holfresh wrote:
The Heat was 8-9 to start out a couple of years ago before Spo started putting a winning formula together...Took them over a year to figure things out...The Pacers were 3-7 or 3-8? last year before they figured it out then came together at the end of the season and in the playoffs...If these coaches were in NY, because of the unrealistic expectations of fans and the media, at least one would have been fired already...I have never heard a team that hasn't played together(Bargs as he 2nd option)figure things out day one...Never...

holfresh - well stated.

yes, the heat had lebron

the pacers have paul george

we don't...

then end..

nixluva wrote:

Clean wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Clean wrote:I don't care about all these nice records during the regular season. A coaches true colors are shown in the playoffs. Woody has shown he lacks the ability to adjust and game plan effectively. This is the main reason for his lackluster playoff results.

In truth Woody's issues in NY in terms of the Playoffs come from his decision to move towards ISO BB. He actually allowed the team to increase it's already high % of ISO plays, which was the wrong way to go. The record shows that when this team goes heavy ISO the ball sticks, they play less efficient BB, they lose their energy on D and they lose games. Woody, Melo and JR are usually to blame for this when it happens. It's just the facts of the matter. Woody allows this to happen and Melo and JR have no problem just banging their heads against the wall trying to ISO their way to wins, but losing instead.

We keeps seeing the same theme since Melo has come here. Every time we get in this bind you read quotes from STAT, Shump and Tyson saying the ball needs to move!!! Melo usually chafes at this suggestion and Woody backs him up. This has been the dynamic and so IMO Woody is at fault when the Knicks go sideways and the ball sticks. He refuses to pull JR when he gets crazy ball hogging and he denies Ball Movement is an issue when it's clear Melo and JR are ball stopping too much. Anyone who denies this reality is in full on denial. Stats support this and our own eyes support that this is what happens.

You explained almost everything I was too lazy to write. Thanks!

Hey I really do stick to the facts, which my detractors seem to overlook when i'm posting. Every thread I start is FULL of statistical proof and direct quotes! To support my point look at how Melo was playing when the team was losing right after Linsanity and then how he was playing when the team was winning the very day MDA left.

Notice that when Melo dragged the team down leading to MDA quiting, he was taking more shots and passing less. When MDA quit that very DAY all of a sudden Melo decides to pass the ball and not take a ton of shots, which was the VERY THING MDA WAS BEGGING HIM TO DO!!! If i'm wrong someone please show otherwise.

Month	            MIN  FGM-FGA FG%  3PM-3PA	3P%  FTM-FTA	FT%  REB  AST  BLK  STL  PF  TO  PTS
3/21 @ PHI W 82-79   34  5-15	 .333  0-2     .000  0-1      .000   5    2    0    0    4   2   10
3/20 vsTOR W 106-87  31  5-15	 .333  1-3     .333  6-8      .750   8    5    0    3    3   2   17
3/17 @ IND W 102-88  30  6-13	 .462  1-4     .250  3-7      .429   4    3    0    0    3   3   16
3/16 vsIND W 115-100 23	 4-12	 .333  0-3     .000  4-5      .800   7    5    0    2    4   0   12
3/14 vsPOR W 121-79  25  6-12	 .500  3-6     .500  1-2      .500   2    7    0    1    1   2   16
MDA
3/12 @ CHI L 99-104  39  8-21	 .381  1-3     .333  4-4     1.000   8    3    1    2    4   2   21
3/11 vsPHI L 94-106  29  5-13	 .385  1-4     .250  11-12    .917   9    3    0    0    2   1   22
3/9  @ MIL L 114-119 37  7-17	 .412  1-2     .500  7-10     .700   5    2    2    1    1   2   22
3/7  @ SA  L 105-118 38	12-24    .500  3-7     .429  0-1      .000   2    3    0    2    5   2   27
3/6  @ DAL L 85-95   31	 2-12    .167  0-3     .000  2-4      .500   8    1    0    0    1   2   6
3/4  @ BOS L 111-115 35  8-21    .381  0-1     .000  9-10     .900   7    2    0    0    4   3   25

We see the same thing happen so far this year. The last 2 wins the team was moving the ball and everyone got involved. We saw the return of the Melo/STAT PnR and the spread offense. If it was so hard to figure out, then those of us who have been pointing this out for years wouldn't be proved right over and over again. I have no problem with good ISO possessions, but you can't have the ball stop moving and selfish ball hogging and expect to have a good flow and win.

When the ball moves you force the defense to work and expose weaknesses. When you force ISO and ball hog it makes things easier for the defense. Of course you still need talent to win, but you can lose with talent if you don't share the ball. That is why I blamed Woody for the losing. The talent was there to win with, but the approach was wrong. This isn't to say this is a perfect team. It's a very flawed team, but with the right style of play you can win games. Woody must remain committed to Ball Movement and spacing and mixing it up offensively.

Thats all that happened, and ironically the sample you used melo had better overall stats under MDA than he did under Woody...ho figure.

But also just simply look at whom they were playing during MDA's final days...all on the road, all good teams VS under Woody mostly at home, and the teams werent as good.....just like these last two wins.

Wait until they play someone good, then make this wonderful repeater post.

nixluva wrote:

knickscity wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Clean wrote:

nixluva wrote:

Clean wrote:I don't care about all these nice records during the regular season. A coaches true colors are shown in the playoffs. Woody has shown he lacks the ability to adjust and game plan effectively. This is the main reason for his lackluster playoff results.

In truth Woody's issues in NY in terms of the Playoffs come from his decision to move towards ISO BB. He actually allowed the team to increase it's already high % of ISO plays, which was the wrong way to go. The record shows that when this team goes heavy ISO the ball sticks, they play less efficient BB, they lose their energy on D and they lose games. Woody, Melo and JR are usually to blame for this when it happens. It's just the facts of the matter. Woody allows this to happen and Melo and JR have no problem just banging their heads against the wall trying to ISO their way to wins, but losing instead.

We keeps seeing the same theme since Melo has come here. Every time we get in this bind you read quotes from STAT, Shump and Tyson saying the ball needs to move!!! Melo usually chafes at this suggestion and Woody backs him up. This has been the dynamic and so IMO Woody is at fault when the Knicks go sideways and the ball sticks. He refuses to pull JR when he gets crazy ball hogging and he denies Ball Movement is an issue when it's clear Melo and JR are ball stopping too much. Anyone who denies this reality is in full on denial. Stats support this and our own eyes support that this is what happens.

You explained almost everything I was too lazy to write. Thanks!

Hey I really do stick to the facts, which my detractors seem to overlook when i'm posting. Every thread I start is FULL of statistical proof and direct quotes! To support my point look at how Melo was playing when the team was losing right after Linsanity and then how he was playing when the team was winning the very day MDA left.

Notice that when Melo dragged the team down leading to MDA quiting, he was taking more shots and passing less. When MDA quit that very DAY all of a sudden Melo decides to pass the ball and not take a ton of shots, which was the VERY THING MDA WAS BEGGING HIM TO DO!!! If i'm wrong someone please show otherwise.

Month	            MIN  FGM-FGA FG%  3PM-3PA	3P%  FTM-FTA	FT%  REB  AST  BLK  STL  PF  TO  PTS
3/21 @ PHI W 82-79   34  5-15	 .333  0-2     .000  0-1      .000   5    2    0    0    4   2   10
3/20 vsTOR W 106-87  31  5-15	 .333  1-3     .333  6-8      .750   8    5    0    3    3   2   17
3/17 @ IND W 102-88  30  6-13	 .462  1-4     .250  3-7      .429   4    3    0    0    3   3   16
3/16 vsIND W 115-100 23	 4-12	 .333  0-3     .000  4-5      .800   7    5    0    2    4   0   12
3/14 vsPOR W 121-79  25  6-12	 .500  3-6     .500  1-2      .500   2    7    0    1    1   2   16
MDA
3/12 @ CHI L 99-104  39  8-21	 .381  1-3     .333  4-4     1.000   8    3    1    2    4   2   21
3/11 vsPHI L 94-106  29  5-13	 .385  1-4     .250  11-12    .917   9    3    0    0    2   1   22
3/9  @ MIL L 114-119 37  7-17	 .412  1-2     .500  7-10     .700   5    2    2    1    1   2   22
3/7  @ SA  L 105-118 38	12-24    .500  3-7     .429  0-1      .000   2    3    0    2    5   2   27
3/6  @ DAL L 85-95   31	 2-12    .167  0-3     .000  2-4      .500   8    1    0    0    1   2   6
3/4  @ BOS L 111-115 35  8-21    .381  0-1     .000  9-10     .900   7    2    0    0    4   3   25

We see the same thing happen so far this year. The last 2 wins the team was moving the ball and everyone got involved. We saw the return of the Melo/STAT PnR and the spread offense. If it was so hard to figure out, then those of us who have been pointing this out for years wouldn't be proved right over and over again. I have no problem with good ISO possessions, but you can't have the ball stop moving and selfish ball hogging and expect to have a good flow and win.

When the ball moves you force the defense to work and expose weaknesses. When you force ISO and ball hog it makes things easier for the defense. Of course you still need talent to win, but you can lose with talent if you don't share the ball. That is why I blamed Woody for the losing. The talent was there to win with, but the approach was wrong. This isn't to say this is a perfect team. It's a very flawed team, but with the right style of play you can win games. Woody must remain committed to Ball Movement and spacing and mixing it up offensively.

yeah, you are flat out wrong, it wasnt any difference in melo's play....just all team usually receive a bump in wins when they have a coaching change.

Thats all that happened, and ironically the sample you used melo had better overall stats under MDA than he did under Woody...ho figure.

But also just simply look at whom they were playing during MDA's final days...all on the road, all good teams VS under Woody mostly at home, and the teams werent as good.....just like these last two wins.

Wait until they play someone good, then make this wonderful repeater post.

You quite clearly missed all the points of my post. For one thing It wasn't about Melo's stats improving, but rather the fact that the team played better when he wasn't dominating the ball and was looking for his teammates. You and others CONTINUALLY miss the overarching point when it comes to this. Also you'd have to be blind in order to not notice the extra effort level that Melo put in after MDA left. In particular on defense. When the best player on your team picks up his effort level like that it does in fact effect the entire team, just as it was a drag on the entire team when the best player, MELO was dogging it after he came back and killed off the good vibes the team had while he was out.

Yes we all know that there's a bump when teams change coaches, but that only underscores the fact that Woody was barely a factor in the team winning like they did based on some supposed great coaching. They didn't have the time to really make wholesale changes. There were no practice days and they openly admitted that little had changed except the effort level. That is until we get to the point when Woody starts to go more with ISO and in the playoffs every time that has killed us.

I hate the argument about strength of competition. For one thing good teams will win their fair share of games against the schedule. What is most important is sticking to good BB principles and executing at a high level. That is especially the case when you don't have the leagues best talent. The coach has to be on top of his game and the players have to execute at a high level as well. The fact is that this team last year was able to beat anyone in the league when they played the game the right way and could lose to anyone when they didn't. It's no different now. They should've beaten Indiana this year and didn't finish the game with good execution. That kept happening and it's really just more evidence of what i'm pointing out and have been consistently saying for years.

The difference between a "bump" and Woody is the "bump" lasted two seasons, so it's more than just a bump.

Woody is good enough for THIS group, they just need to play with some pride primarily and trust each other...two things they havent done.

They havent ran any "plays" in these two wins, all they do is swing the ball around the three point line, sprinkled with a few drives to open up the court with a faster tempo.....that aint winning playoff basketball, but should suffice in the regular season.

Is Woody a good playoff coach? Nope, but very few are, and he certainly doesnt have a playoff worthy roster either.

This is the gauge for me and I need no graphs nor videos to prove it.

The Knicks last year were completely ravaged by injuries and still put up a good regular season, this team so far cant do it.

Playoff-wise, the better team usually wins...Indy was better, and they are thoroughly proving it this season.

Same coach, same core...different results so far, so obviously those ARENT the main issues....they are still missing things.

Primarily a better roster, get that then talk about the coach.

Folks make me laugh on here, they kill the coach but know there isnt anything better out there and wont make a suggestion either because they know there isnt anything better.....but completely ignore the roster.

There was a point in time when Doc Rivers was on the hot seat...amazing what an infusion of talent can do.