Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'd rather trade him but I'm not gonna cry over Carmelo leaving us with $60 mil in cap space intact.

not only that, but we are not going to get back the same package we gave up.. I a team is willing or stupid enough to give us close to that, I would say do it tomorrow..

Some role players making combined Melo's salary, no thanks.

carmelo is a role player making max money.. who is a role player to you? it seems you don't have a clear grasp on who a star is... there are a lot of role players in the league who are allstar players or play on that level..

Let me ask you, was indiana a team of role players last year? and please don't mention paul george as being a star then, because only myself and a few others were calling him star talent last year...

you would not take the pacers team over having carmelo? really?

The Pacers are the one exception you like to use and its pretty warn out. George, West, and Hibbert are all-star players. They are not role players, and no reasonable basketball person considers Melo a role player.

exception.... every team doing well now has done so with players they drafted,smart trades, and FA signings.. we have done neither.. but the key is how they manipulated assets...

The knicks tried to follow another teams model but did so horribly...

you can't follow a model which pretty much requires you getting the best players in the league.. once they are gone, that model won't work!!

But please reasonably explain how Melo is a role player. Are most role players top 10 HOF candidates? Just asking.

top 10 HOF candidates.. what the heck does that mean.. top 10 of all time? top 10 among role players, top 10 among guys born in the 80's.. top 10 of guys who names end in "elo"... lol.. such a random statement..

Pardon me, he's in the top 12 of active players for HOF probability.

BasketBall-Reference.com
Active Min 400 Games
Rank Player HoF Prob
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. LeBron James 0.9995
4. Dwyane Wade 0.9990
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9990
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9865
7. Paul Pierce 0.9823
8. Ray Allen 0.9657
9. Chris Bosh 0.9466
10. Chris Paul 0.8937
11. Tony Parker 0.8324
12. Carmelo Anthony 0.8191
13. Dwight Howard 0.8082

Now please explain Melo the "role player".

His role is as a volume scorer. That's all you need to get overrated and get recognition. BBall reference never says that that formula has anything to do with how good the player is. Just how popular the player is. We've been through this before. All you're really doing is telling us that Melo gets a lot of points.

So looking at the company he is in, are you telling me he is the one player that doesn't belong? How can that be?

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'd rather trade him but I'm not gonna cry over Carmelo leaving us with $60 mil in cap space intact.

not only that, but we are not going to get back the same package we gave up.. I a team is willing or stupid enough to give us close to that, I would say do it tomorrow..

Some role players making combined Melo's salary, no thanks.

carmelo is a role player making max money.. who is a role player to you? it seems you don't have a clear grasp on who a star is... there are a lot of role players in the league who are allstar players or play on that level..

Let me ask you, was indiana a team of role players last year? and please don't mention paul george as being a star then, because only myself and a few others were calling him star talent last year...

you would not take the pacers team over having carmelo? really?

The Pacers are the one exception you like to use and its pretty warn out. George, West, and Hibbert are all-star players. They are not role players, and no reasonable basketball person considers Melo a role player.

You sound like someone who never reads views differing from his own.

You sound like someone who would back up The New Prophet if he told you 10 game sample sizes are the key to life.

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'd rather trade him but I'm not gonna cry over Carmelo leaving us with $60 mil in cap space intact.

not only that, but we are not going to get back the same package we gave up.. I a team is willing or stupid enough to give us close to that, I would say do it tomorrow..

Some role players making combined Melo's salary, no thanks.

carmelo is a role player making max money.. who is a role player to you? it seems you don't have a clear grasp on who a star is... there are a lot of role players in the league who are allstar players or play on that level..

Let me ask you, was indiana a team of role players last year? and please don't mention paul george as being a star then, because only myself and a few others were calling him star talent last year...

you would not take the pacers team over having carmelo? really?

The Pacers are the one exception you like to use and its pretty warn out. George, West, and Hibbert are all-star players. They are not role players, and no reasonable basketball person considers Melo a role player.

exception.... every team doing well now has done so with players they drafted,smart trades, and FA signings.. we have done neither.. but the key is how they manipulated assets...

The knicks tried to follow another teams model but did so horribly...

you can't follow a model which pretty much requires you getting the best players in the league.. once they are gone, that model won't work!!

But please reasonably explain how Melo is a role player. Are most role players top 10 HOF candidates? Just asking.

top 10 HOF candidates.. what the heck does that mean.. top 10 of all time? top 10 among role players, top 10 among guys born in the 80's.. top 10 of guys who names end in "elo"... lol.. such a random statement..

Pardon me, he's in the top 12 of active players for HOF probability.

BasketBall-Reference.com
Active Min 400 Games
Rank Player HoF Prob
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. LeBron James 0.9995
4. Dwyane Wade 0.9990
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9990
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9865
7. Paul Pierce 0.9823
8. Ray Allen 0.9657
9. Chris Bosh 0.9466
10. Chris Paul 0.8937
11. Tony Parker 0.8324
12. Carmelo Anthony 0.8191
13. Dwight Howard 0.8082

Now please explain Melo the "role player".

read my post I just made.. carmelo has been miscast... you take the word role player as being bad.. mchale was a role player, a great one tho..

you know what is so great about this list, and thanks for posting it...

chris bosh, ray allen,pierce, parker and carmelo... have never made first team all NBA... but bosh has a ring, so does allen, Parker has 3 and has been finals MVP and pierce has been finals MVP... there still is a distinction between those guys and carmelo...

I point this out because you are now trying to use the potential "HOF" as a way to put carmelo on a level he doesn't belong..

bosh right now I think is cast perfectely as a role player in miami.. although an allstar, he clearly is a role player on the heat.... not norris cole or birdman, no, he is better than that, but he still is a role player on the heat.. I know the term role player is usually for those who specifically do one thing, but I like to call them specialty players..

but back to my point.. everyone on this list, has something to distinguish themselves, with the exception of carmelo.. he doesn't fit... and yes getting a ring isn't easy, chris paul doesn't have one, but he has distinguished himself individually..

kind of eye opening here..

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'd rather trade him but I'm not gonna cry over Carmelo leaving us with $60 mil in cap space intact.

not only that, but we are not going to get back the same package we gave up.. I a team is willing or stupid enough to give us close to that, I would say do it tomorrow..

Some role players making combined Melo's salary, no thanks.

carmelo is a role player making max money.. who is a role player to you? it seems you don't have a clear grasp on who a star is... there are a lot of role players in the league who are allstar players or play on that level..

Let me ask you, was indiana a team of role players last year? and please don't mention paul george as being a star then, because only myself and a few others were calling him star talent last year...

you would not take the pacers team over having carmelo? really?

The Pacers are the one exception you like to use and its pretty warn out. George, West, and Hibbert are all-star players. They are not role players, and no reasonable basketball person considers Melo a role player.

exception.... every team doing well now has done so with players they drafted,smart trades, and FA signings.. we have done neither.. but the key is how they manipulated assets...

The knicks tried to follow another teams model but did so horribly...

you can't follow a model which pretty much requires you getting the best players in the league.. once they are gone, that model won't work!!

But please reasonably explain how Melo is a role player. Are most role players top 10 HOF candidates? Just asking.

top 10 HOF candidates.. what the heck does that mean.. top 10 of all time? top 10 among role players, top 10 among guys born in the 80's.. top 10 of guys who names end in "elo"... lol.. such a random statement..

Pardon me, he's in the top 12 of active players for HOF probability.

BasketBall-Reference.com
Active Min 400 Games
Rank Player HoF Prob
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. LeBron James 0.9995
4. Dwyane Wade 0.9990
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9990
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9865
7. Paul Pierce 0.9823
8. Ray Allen 0.9657
9. Chris Bosh 0.9466
10. Chris Paul 0.8937
11. Tony Parker 0.8324
12. Carmelo Anthony 0.8191
13. Dwight Howard 0.8082

Now please explain Melo the "role player".

His role is as a volume scorer. That's all you need to get overrated and get recognition. BBall reference never says that that formula has anything to do with how good the player is. Just how popular the player is. We've been through this before. All you're really doing is telling us that Melo gets a lot of points.

So looking at the company he is in, are you telling me he is the one player that doesn't belong? How can that be?

He belongs in the list - you have to understand what the list is though. It's a calculation of popularity.

Yes, all these players are going to the HOF because they're popular. Kobe, LeQ, Duncan, it's all about popularity. Unbelievable. SMH.

I mean, look how popular Melo is on this board alone...

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

MSG3 wrote:Problem is we are screwed if he leaves. We'll have a lot of cap space, but who do we build around? If we preserve cap space, we will have given away a sure lottery pick. What a mess. My preference in order from most to least is:

1) This team figures it out and makes a SMART move with Shumpert (I'm resigned to the fact he's as good as gone)
2) If the team struggles all year and gets bounced in the first round Melo still decides to stay and we build around him.
3) Trade Melo if he doesn't commit to staying and rebuild starting this coming off season. Hopefully we can get a lottery pick in return, but unless he opts in with the team he's traded to I don't think we'll be getting a lottery pick.
4) Melo walks, we have to rebuild, we learn another tough lesson by having given away an almost sure lottery pick in the original deal that brought him here.

It is what it is at this point. Just keeping Melo at a max out deal will guarantee the Knicks go no where. At this point does it really matter between making playoffs to get bounced and rebuilding towards something that will last, and result in something that might be more special.

There's always the possibility that Melo will opt out and take less money with the Knicks if they think they can bring along some other pieces. I think this is HIGHLY unlikely, but don't think it's out of the realm of possibility since he's already been on the record as wanting to win here in NY.

why would you believe that. he had a chance at coming to a stocked NY team and he blew that up...

ok, the season ends, knicks miss playoffs.. carmelo opts out.. now how do you guarantee him that you will bring along players to carry him to a ECF? you think the knicks will magically pull players out of a hat before he opts out?

the knicks need to cut ties.. if he opts out, the knicks need to pull a reverse carlos boozer, and tell him, we are moving in a different direction..thanks for your service...

tkf wrote:exception.... every team doing well now has done so with players they drafted,smart trades, and FA signings.. we have done neither.. but the key is how they manipulated assets...

If Melo doesn't want to be in NY, the Knicks absolutely need to get back assets. Think of Detroit getting back the likes of Ben Wallace, etc. when Grant Hill left.

For me Melo is a Robin type of player and also needs a strong coach and/or strong PG who controls ball and offense for him to be effective. Not too many players like that out there. Behind the scenes I would offer him somewhere in the $13/15M range starting in 2015 and see if he wants to stay while recruiting Rondo/Love/LeBron etc. If not, I would let him team know that the Knicks will give him whatever type of max contract extension in a S&T.

martin, let me ask you this.. do you honestly think he would take 13-15 mil? now I am asking you to look at the history of carmelo..

as far as love/lebron/rondo.. that is so unlikely, but let me ask you this.. love is a PF, why would he come to play a position carmelo plays, plus I think love wants to go west coast? rondo is a pipe dream as is lebron..

why not do this.. let carmelo walk... still recruit lebron and let him recruit the guys he wants to play with... honestly, I am not a big tyson chandler fan, but with a guys like lebron, I would be looking to sign tyson on the cheap and bring bosh here along with lebron to play PF.. bosh has proven to be a superb compliment to the way lebron plays, and is a true PF.. but again, all of this is a pipe dream, but even while we dream, we should still seek the best scenario..

let carmelo walk his way to LA.. I promise you martin that would be the best move this franchise has made in 20+ years.

I don't care what Melo would take to stay, that's what I would offer him and that's why I included my bit about S&T. He doesn't play D, doesn't make anyone better. He is not worth more than $13-15M range, especially with how the cap is arranged. You gotta sell him on the fact that LeBron and company all took $14M to build a team.

And if you wanna let Melo walk for free without even getting an iota of assets back, that would be your fault as a GM. I would try as hard as hell to get something.

Knixkik wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

MSG3 wrote:Problem is we are screwed if he leaves. We'll have a lot of cap space, but who do we build around? If we preserve cap space, we will have given away a sure lottery pick. What a mess. My preference in order from most to least is:

1) This team figures it out and makes a SMART move with Shumpert (I'm resigned to the fact he's as good as gone)
2) If the team struggles all year and gets bounced in the first round Melo still decides to stay and we build around him.
3) Trade Melo if he doesn't commit to staying and rebuild starting this coming off season. Hopefully we can get a lottery pick in return, but unless he opts in with the team he's traded to I don't think we'll be getting a lottery pick.
4) Melo walks, we have to rebuild, we learn another tough lesson by having given away an almost sure lottery pick in the original deal that brought him here.

It is what it is at this point. Just keeping Melo at a max out deal will guarantee the Knicks go no where. At this point does it really matter between making playoffs to get bounced and rebuilding towards something that will last, and result in something that might be more special.

There's always the possibility that Melo will opt out and take less money with the Knicks if they think they can bring along some other pieces. I think this is HIGHLY unlikely, but don't think it's out of the realm of possibility since he's already been on the record as wanting to win here in NY.

If Melo leaves NY his brand will take a hit and he will have even more pressure to win. If he goes to LA and doesn't win his brand takes another hit. Smart thing for him to do is resign with a plan to help the Knicks improve, which obviously involves taking less money. Maybe he won't do that, but i won't judge him on it until i see what happens. He brought respectable basketball back to NY last season so most fans appreciate that, lets see if he takes it a step further and takes less money to get support here.

Let's not kid ourselves Kidd and Wallace brought respectable basketball back to NY. They were the main reason for the fast start. They were the ones who provided leadership. It was Amare who brought the Knicks back initially. Melo had a part in last year I will not deny that.

Vmart wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

MSG3 wrote:Problem is we are screwed if he leaves. We'll have a lot of cap space, but who do we build around? If we preserve cap space, we will have given away a sure lottery pick. What a mess. My preference in order from most to least is:

1) This team figures it out and makes a SMART move with Shumpert (I'm resigned to the fact he's as good as gone)
2) If the team struggles all year and gets bounced in the first round Melo still decides to stay and we build around him.
3) Trade Melo if he doesn't commit to staying and rebuild starting this coming off season. Hopefully we can get a lottery pick in return, but unless he opts in with the team he's traded to I don't think we'll be getting a lottery pick.
4) Melo walks, we have to rebuild, we learn another tough lesson by having given away an almost sure lottery pick in the original deal that brought him here.

It is what it is at this point. Just keeping Melo at a max out deal will guarantee the Knicks go no where. At this point does it really matter between making playoffs to get bounced and rebuilding towards something that will last, and result in something that might be more special.

There's always the possibility that Melo will opt out and take less money with the Knicks if they think they can bring along some other pieces. I think this is HIGHLY unlikely, but don't think it's out of the realm of possibility since he's already been on the record as wanting to win here in NY.

If Melo leaves NY his brand will take a hit and he will have even more pressure to win. If he goes to LA and doesn't win his brand takes another hit. Smart thing for him to do is resign with a plan to help the Knicks improve, which obviously involves taking less money. Maybe he won't do that, but i won't judge him on it until i see what happens. He brought respectable basketball back to NY last season so most fans appreciate that, lets see if he takes it a step further and takes less money to get support here.

Let's not kid ourselves Kidd and Wallace brought respectable basketball back to NY. They were the main reason for the fast start. They were the ones who provided leadership. It was Amare who brought the Knicks back initially. Melo had a part in last year I will not deny that.

oh he did have a part, but the problem is, most believe that he dragged us to 54 wins.... I said early last season that kidd was team mvp for the first month or so..

jrodmc wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

jrodmc wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:I'd rather trade him but I'm not gonna cry over Carmelo leaving us with $60 mil in cap space intact.

not only that, but we are not going to get back the same package we gave up.. I a team is willing or stupid enough to give us close to that, I would say do it tomorrow..

Some role players making combined Melo's salary, no thanks.

carmelo is a role player making max money.. who is a role player to you? it seems you don't have a clear grasp on who a star is... there are a lot of role players in the league who are allstar players or play on that level..

Let me ask you, was indiana a team of role players last year? and please don't mention paul george as being a star then, because only myself and a few others were calling him star talent last year...

you would not take the pacers team over having carmelo? really?

The Pacers are the one exception you like to use and its pretty warn out. George, West, and Hibbert are all-star players. They are not role players, and no reasonable basketball person considers Melo a role player.

exception.... every team doing well now has done so with players they drafted,smart trades, and FA signings.. we have done neither.. but the key is how they manipulated assets...

The knicks tried to follow another teams model but did so horribly...

you can't follow a model which pretty much requires you getting the best players in the league.. once they are gone, that model won't work!!

But please reasonably explain how Melo is a role player. Are most role players top 10 HOF candidates? Just asking.

top 10 HOF candidates.. what the heck does that mean.. top 10 of all time? top 10 among role players, top 10 among guys born in the 80's.. top 10 of guys who names end in "elo"... lol.. such a random statement..

Pardon me, he's in the top 12 of active players for HOF probability.

BasketBall-Reference.com
Active Min 400 Games
Rank Player HoF Prob
1. Kobe Bryant 1.0000
2. Tim Duncan 0.9999
3. LeBron James 0.9995
4. Dwyane Wade 0.9990
5. Kevin Garnett 0.9990
6. Dirk Nowitzki 0.9865
7. Paul Pierce 0.9823
8. Ray Allen 0.9657
9. Chris Bosh 0.9466
10. Chris Paul 0.8937
11. Tony Parker 0.8324
12. Carmelo Anthony 0.8191
13. Dwight Howard 0.8082

Now please explain Melo the "role player".

His role is as a volume scorer. That's all you need to get overrated and get recognition. BBall reference never says that that formula has anything to do with how good the player is. Just how popular the player is. We've been through this before. All you're really doing is telling us that Melo gets a lot of points.

So looking at the company he is in, are you telling me he is the one player that doesn't belong? How can that be?

He belongs in the list - you have to understand what the list is though. It's a calculation of popularity.

Yes, all these players are going to the HOF because they're popular. Kobe, LeQ, Duncan, it's all about popularity. Unbelievable. SMH.

I mean, look how popular Melo is on this board alone...

All? No.

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

MSG3 wrote:Problem is we are screwed if he leaves. We'll have a lot of cap space, but who do we build around? If we preserve cap space, we will have given away a sure lottery pick. What a mess. My preference in order from most to least is:

1) This team figures it out and makes a SMART move with Shumpert (I'm resigned to the fact he's as good as gone)
2) If the team struggles all year and gets bounced in the first round Melo still decides to stay and we build around him.
3) Trade Melo if he doesn't commit to staying and rebuild starting this coming off season. Hopefully we can get a lottery pick in return, but unless he opts in with the team he's traded to I don't think we'll be getting a lottery pick.
4) Melo walks, we have to rebuild, we learn another tough lesson by having given away an almost sure lottery pick in the original deal that brought him here.

It is what it is at this point. Just keeping Melo at a max out deal will guarantee the Knicks go no where. At this point does it really matter between making playoffs to get bounced and rebuilding towards something that will last, and result in something that might be more special.

There's always the possibility that Melo will opt out and take less money with the Knicks if they think they can bring along some other pieces. I think this is HIGHLY unlikely, but don't think it's out of the realm of possibility since he's already been on the record as wanting to win here in NY.

why would you believe that. he had a chance at coming to a stocked NY team and he blew that up...

ok, the season ends, knicks miss playoffs.. carmelo opts out.. now how do you guarantee him that you will bring along players to carry him to a ECF? you think the knicks will magically pull players out of a hat before he opts out?

the knicks need to cut ties.. if he opts out, the knicks need to pull a reverse carlos boozer, and tell him, we are moving in a different direction..thanks for your service...

tkf wrote:exception.... every team doing well now has done so with players they drafted,smart trades, and FA signings.. we have done neither.. but the key is how they manipulated assets...

If Melo doesn't want to be in NY, the Knicks absolutely need to get back assets. Think of Detroit getting back the likes of Ben Wallace, etc. when Grant Hill left.

For me Melo is a Robin type of player and also needs a strong coach and/or strong PG who controls ball and offense for him to be effective. Not too many players like that out there. Behind the scenes I would offer him somewhere in the $13/15M range starting in 2015 and see if he wants to stay while recruiting Rondo/Love/LeBron etc. If not, I would let him team know that the Knicks will give him whatever type of max contract extension in a S&T.

martin, let me ask you this.. do you honestly think he would take 13-15 mil? now I am asking you to look at the history of carmelo..

as far as love/lebron/rondo.. that is so unlikely, but let me ask you this.. love is a PF, why would he come to play a position carmelo plays, plus I think love wants to go west coast? rondo is a pipe dream as is lebron..

why not do this.. let carmelo walk... still recruit lebron and let him recruit the guys he wants to play with... honestly, I am not a big tyson chandler fan, but with a guys like lebron, I would be looking to sign tyson on the cheap and bring bosh here along with lebron to play PF.. bosh has proven to be a superb compliment to the way lebron plays, and is a true PF.. but again, all of this is a pipe dream, but even while we dream, we should still seek the best scenario..

let carmelo walk his way to LA.. I promise you martin that would be the best move this franchise has made in 20+ years.

I don't care what Melo would take to stay, that's what I would offer him and that's why I included my bit about S&T. He doesn't play D, doesn't make anyone better. He is not worth more than $13-15M range, especially with how the cap is arranged. You gotta sell him on the fact that LeBron and company all took $14M to build a team.

And if you wanna let Melo walk for free without even getting an iota of assets back, that would be your fault as a GM. I would try as hard as hell to get something.

I think that is an impossible sell.. he was part of this team getting gutted when all he had to do was play out the season and sign as a FA... he wanted his money... why would that change? thats all I am asking..

I was all for NOT trading for Melo, so I understand that point. I also wouldn't gloss over the fact that he and agent didn't know what was going on with the new CBA. Melo and his agent made a BIG FUCKING mistake not having an out like all the other players in his draft class.

Impossible sell or not, that's the route I would take. You always have to try. Do you think Lakers regret getting zero for Howard? Do you think Riley shied away from the impossible sell of Bosh/Wade/LeBron?

Orlando get a LOT more than we all thought for a damaged-goods (rep and body) Howard at the time. I bet Denver wishes that tried to do something with Iggy.

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:

martin wrote:

tkf wrote:

MSG3 wrote:

Vmart wrote:

MSG3 wrote:Problem is we are screwed if he leaves. We'll have a lot of cap space, but who do we build around? If we preserve cap space, we will have given away a sure lottery pick. What a mess. My preference in order from most to least is:

1) This team figures it out and makes a SMART move with Shumpert (I'm resigned to the fact he's as good as gone)
2) If the team struggles all year and gets bounced in the first round Melo still decides to stay and we build around him.
3) Trade Melo if he doesn't commit to staying and rebuild starting this coming off season. Hopefully we can get a lottery pick in return, but unless he opts in with the team he's traded to I don't think we'll be getting a lottery pick.
4) Melo walks, we have to rebuild, we learn another tough lesson by having given away an almost sure lottery pick in the original deal that brought him here.

It is what it is at this point. Just keeping Melo at a max out deal will guarantee the Knicks go no where. At this point does it really matter between making playoffs to get bounced and rebuilding towards something that will last, and result in something that might be more special.

There's always the possibility that Melo will opt out and take less money with the Knicks if they think they can bring along some other pieces. I think this is HIGHLY unlikely, but don't think it's out of the realm of possibility since he's already been on the record as wanting to win here in NY.

why would you believe that. he had a chance at coming to a stocked NY team and he blew that up...

ok, the season ends, knicks miss playoffs.. carmelo opts out.. now how do you guarantee him that you will bring along players to carry him to a ECF? you think the knicks will magically pull players out of a hat before he opts out?

the knicks need to cut ties.. if he opts out, the knicks need to pull a reverse carlos boozer, and tell him, we are moving in a different direction..thanks for your service...

tkf wrote:exception.... every team doing well now has done so with players they drafted,smart trades, and FA signings.. we have done neither.. but the key is how they manipulated assets...

If Melo doesn't want to be in NY, the Knicks absolutely need to get back assets. Think of Detroit getting back the likes of Ben Wallace, etc. when Grant Hill left.

For me Melo is a Robin type of player and also needs a strong coach and/or strong PG who controls ball and offense for him to be effective. Not too many players like that out there. Behind the scenes I would offer him somewhere in the $13/15M range starting in 2015 and see if he wants to stay while recruiting Rondo/Love/LeBron etc. If not, I would let him team know that the Knicks will give him whatever type of max contract extension in a S&T.

martin, let me ask you this.. do you honestly think he would take 13-15 mil? now I am asking you to look at the history of carmelo..

as far as love/lebron/rondo.. that is so unlikely, but let me ask you this.. love is a PF, why would he come to play a position carmelo plays, plus I think love wants to go west coast? rondo is a pipe dream as is lebron..

why not do this.. let carmelo walk... still recruit lebron and let him recruit the guys he wants to play with... honestly, I am not a big tyson chandler fan, but with a guys like lebron, I would be looking to sign tyson on the cheap and bring bosh here along with lebron to play PF.. bosh has proven to be a superb compliment to the way lebron plays, and is a true PF.. but again, all of this is a pipe dream, but even while we dream, we should still seek the best scenario..

let carmelo walk his way to LA.. I promise you martin that would be the best move this franchise has made in 20+ years.

I don't care what Melo would take to stay, that's what I would offer him and that's why I included my bit about S&T. He doesn't play D, doesn't make anyone better. He is not worth more than $13-15M range, especially with how the cap is arranged. You gotta sell him on the fact that LeBron and company all took $14M to build a team.

And if you wanna let Melo walk for free without even getting an iota of assets back, that would be your fault as a GM. I would try as hard as hell to get something.

I think that is an impossible sell.. he was part of this team getting gutted when all he had to do was play out the season and sign as a FA... he wanted his money... why would that change? thats all I am asking..

I was all for NOT trading for Melo, so I understand that point. I also wouldn't gloss over the fact that he and agent didn't know what was going on with the new CBA. Melo and his agent made a BIG FUCKING mistake not having an out like all the other players in his draft class.

Impossible sell or not, that's the route I would take. You always have to try. Do you think Lakers regret getting zero for Howard? Do you think Riley shied away from the impossible sell of Bosh/Wade/LeBron?

Orlando get a LOT more than we all thought for a damaged-goods (rep and body) Howard at the time. I bet Denver wishes that tried to do something with Iggy.

ok, I understand you try I get that.. but I just think it will be futile..

as far as denver and iggy... they hated losing him, but they have a plan. that is the key...they were not going to win a ring with iggy and most likely not going to win 57 games again. they didn't like that Karl didn't develop some of the younger guys.. I watch the nuggets a lot, now guys like moz and fournier are getting a lot of playing time, and beleive me, they look pretty darn good.. long term over short term... especially when the short term does not lead to being a contender..

they now have a team with guys who are close in age that will grow together with picks to add to the core...

they didn't panic with iggy, didn't overpay and honestly iggy wanted to go to golden state.. good for him, and good for denver.. both teams will be fine..