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What Should Be Our Course of Action?
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NardDogNation
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I think the Knicks are definitely at a crossroads and need to decide their course of action beyond this season. There are merits and shortcomings to whatever we do but I'm interested in finding out what the consensus is on the board. Just to review our options:

1.) Rebuild- that would involve the dismantling of the entire team in an attempt to start anew. This option usually results in established players being moved for a combination of young players, draft picks and expiring contracts. The end game is to sacrifice the present in hopes of a better future. This is to be pursued if the core of the team is presumed to be deficient in some capacity (see the 2007-2008 Seattle Supersonics/Oklahoma City Thunder).

2.) Retool- this would involve a "reshuffling of the deck". The core of the team would remain in place, while auxiliary pieces (i.e. role players) are moved out in an attempt to improve the weaknesses of the team. These moves are made under the assumption that the main players on the team are capable of being playoff contenders with the right pieces around them (see the 2007-2008 Lakers).

3.) Stay the Same- this doesn't need to be elaborated.

Rebuild
Retool
Stay the Same
Not Sure
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StarksEwing1
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11/17/2013  12:08 PM
dk7th wrote:making a trade for carmelo anthony was a huge mistake and a waste of time.

tick tock tick tock

melo is what he is. A great scorer but there have been a lot of great scorers over the years. He isnt the type of player that can lead a team to a title. Its not his fault its just what he is. Players like lebron duncan durant dirk are rare. I just wish we could get one of thsoe great players once in a while. We had Ewing who nearly got us a title on a few occasions
AUTOADVERT
NardDogNation
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11/17/2013  12:09 PM
dk7th wrote:making a trade for carmelo anthony was a huge mistake and a waste of time.

tick tock tick tock

Mardy Collins? That you?
knickscity
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11/17/2013  12:10 PM
dk7th wrote:making a trade for carmelo anthony was a huge mistake and a waste of time.

tick tock tick tock


I'm sure the Knicks organization and the ones in attendance at the games disagree.

You may wanna readjust your own thinking, and not think of the Knicks and championships.
JohnStarksFan
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11/17/2013  12:11 PM
NardDogNation wrote:
dk7th wrote:making a trade for carmelo anthony was a huge mistake and a waste of time.

tick tock tick tock

Mardy Collins? That you?

HAHA!! <---dk7th
CrushAlot
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11/17/2013  12:12 PM
dk7th wrote:making a trade for carmelo anthony was a huge mistake and a waste of time.

tick tock tick tock

Still ignoring the Amare contract eh?
Carmelo Anthony, SF 34 MIN | 8-21 FG | 6-7 FT | 12 REB | 2 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 23 PTS | -2
I think we need to rescue Robin Williams from whatever non-descript CBS sitcom he’s toiling away at, cram him into a bulky sweater and a pair of high-waisted khakis and have him drape his hirsute arms around Melo, Good Will Hunting style while re-enacting the “It’s not your fault” scene until Anthony breaks down in tears. See?

http://knickerblogger.net/hawks-110-knicks-90/

I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
dk7th
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11/17/2013  12:18 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:making a trade for carmelo anthony was a huge mistake and a waste of time.

tick tock tick tock

Still ignoring the Amare contract eh?
Carmelo Anthony, SF 34 MIN | 8-21 FG | 6-7 FT | 12 REB | 2 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 23 PTS | -2
I think we need to rescue Robin Williams from whatever non-descript CBS sitcom he’s toiling away at, cram him into a bulky sweater and a pair of high-waisted khakis and have him drape his hirsute arms around Melo, Good Will Hunting style while re-enacting the “It’s not your fault” scene until Anthony breaks down in tears. See?

http://knickerblogger.net/hawks-110-knicks-90/

you don't compound one error with another, larger error. but that is what dolan does.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
CrushAlot
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11/17/2013  12:23 PM
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:making a trade for carmelo anthony was a huge mistake and a waste of time.

tick tock tick tock

Still ignoring the Amare contract eh?
Carmelo Anthony, SF 34 MIN | 8-21 FG | 6-7 FT | 12 REB | 2 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 23 PTS | -2
I think we need to rescue Robin Williams from whatever non-descript CBS sitcom he’s toiling away at, cram him into a bulky sweater and a pair of high-waisted khakis and have him drape his hirsute arms around Melo, Good Will Hunting style while re-enacting the “It’s not your fault” scene until Anthony breaks down in tears. See?

http://knickerblogger.net/hawks-110-knicks-90/

you don't compound one error with another, larger error. but that is what dolan does.

It was Walsh's plan and desire to get two stars and his shedding of players and assets that got the Knicks to where they are. Dolan gets credit or blame for including moz. As far as a bigger mistake I disagree. Getting a healthy top ten player at age 26 for what the Knicks traded is a move you have to make.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
NardDogNation
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11/17/2013  12:29 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:making a trade for carmelo anthony was a huge mistake and a waste of time.

tick tock tick tock

Still ignoring the Amare contract eh?
Carmelo Anthony, SF 34 MIN | 8-21 FG | 6-7 FT | 12 REB | 2 AST | 1 STL | 0 BLK | 1 TO | 23 PTS | -2
I think we need to rescue Robin Williams from whatever non-descript CBS sitcom he’s toiling away at, cram him into a bulky sweater and a pair of high-waisted khakis and have him drape his hirsute arms around Melo, Good Will Hunting style while re-enacting the “It’s not your fault” scene until Anthony breaks down in tears. See?

http://knickerblogger.net/hawks-110-knicks-90/

you don't compound one error with another, larger error. but that is what dolan does.

It was Walsh's plan and desire to get two stars and his shedding of players and assets that got the Knicks to where they are. Dolan gets credit or blame for including moz. As far as a bigger mistake I disagree. Getting a healthy top ten player at age 26 for what the Knicks traded is a move you have to make.

+1
Bonn1997
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11/17/2013  12:41 PM
Well top ten is up for debate. He's just a volume PPG specialist. There is some value in that but I wouldn't put him remotely close to top 10.
CrushAlot
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11/17/2013  12:44 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:Well top ten is up for debate. He's just a volume PPG specialist. There is some value in that but I wouldn't put him remotely close to top 10.
He was third in mvp voting last year. I am waiting to hear some praise for his rebounding this year. That was always a criticism some had of him at the four spot.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Bonn1997
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11/17/2013  12:46 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Well top ten is up for debate. He's just a volume PPG specialist. There is some value in that but I wouldn't put him remotely close to top 10.
He was third in mvp voting last year. I am waiting to hear some praise for his rebounding this year. That was always a criticism some had of him at the four spot.

Sure, MVP voting and all other awards are based way too heavily on PPG totals. I never said he doesn't have the *reputation* of a top 10 player in the league.
Yeah, he's now rebounding at about an average rate for a PF.
smackeddog
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11/17/2013  1:19 PM
I don't like this quitting mentality- you at least try a bit longer- if the players outright quit after 9 games (ha maybe they have), I'd be disgusted, so I keep those same standards myself.

One thing we do have to decide by next offseason is what to do with Tyson- we can get something of value for him, so if we have no plans in re-signing him in 2015 (which we shouldn't, he'll be 33/34 by then), we need to cash him in between now and summer. We can get the most we'll get for him if we move him by the deadline.

Once that's been decided and depending what we get back, we either keep going or rebuild- Tyson is the key decision to make.
smackeddog
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11/17/2013  1:21 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Well top ten is up for debate. He's just a volume PPG specialist. There is some value in that but I wouldn't put him remotely close to top 10.
He was third in mvp voting last year. I am waiting to hear some praise for his rebounding this year. That was always a criticism some had of him at the four spot.

Do Melo critics honestly not see that he played better last year than this year? This is not necessarily directed at Bonn, as I can't remember your views on Melo last year.
dk7th
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11/17/2013  1:24 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Well top ten is up for debate. He's just a volume PPG specialist. There is some value in that but I wouldn't put him remotely close to top 10.
He was third in mvp voting last year. I am waiting to hear some praise for his rebounding this year. That was always a criticism some had of him at the four spot.

if he is interested in a max contract he had better put a complete game together consistently, and improve his advanced stats. he has been awful as an advanced stats player and the league has probably figured that out by now. nobody in their right minds should even think of offering him a max contract.

he needs to be traded.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
knickscity
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11/17/2013  1:36 PM
smackeddog wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Well top ten is up for debate. He's just a volume PPG specialist. There is some value in that but I wouldn't put him remotely close to top 10.
He was third in mvp voting last year. I am waiting to hear some praise for his rebounding this year. That was always a criticism some had of him at the four spot.

Do Melo critics honestly not see that he played better last year than this year? This is not necessarily directed at Bonn, as I can't remember your views on Melo last year.

I disagree, Melo is putting a more complete game out there this season so far, and thats with an inferior club to last years.
playa2
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11/17/2013  1:39 PM
tkf wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Retool. Rebuilding won't bring a title to ny anytime soon. Won't even make us a good team. It's a challenge for even smart franchises.

you also need picks to retool.. we don't have that..... we need to get picks.. rebuilding and moving players will allow us to rebuild..

Rookies are younger these days since the days of Ewing(1 and done), what superstar rookie can come play in NYC with all the media and fans expectations and pressure and bring this franchise out of the doldrums.

Those who think we can win with rookies in this building(Worlds Most Famous Arena) is delusional.

THE PRESSURE AND ROOKIE WALL WOULD DESTROY THEM ! Think about it. This is why they try and grab vets and not young bucks to play here

JAMES DOLAN on Isiah : He's a good friend of mine and of the organization and I will continue to solicit his views. He will always have strong ties to me and the team.
VCoug
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11/17/2013  2:02 PM
playa2 wrote:
tkf wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Retool. Rebuilding won't bring a title to ny anytime soon. Won't even make us a good team. It's a challenge for even smart franchises.

you also need picks to retool.. we don't have that..... we need to get picks.. rebuilding and moving players will allow us to rebuild..

Rookies are younger these days since the days of Ewing(1 and done), what superstar rookie can come play in NYC with all the media and fans expectations and pressure and bring this franchise out of the doldrums.

Those who think we can win with rookies in this building(Worlds Most Famous Arena) is delusional.

THE PRESSURE AND ROOKIE WALL WOULD DESTROY THEM ! Think about it. This is why they try and grab vets and not young bucks to play here

Do you have any evidence to backup that rookies can't play in NY or are just supposed to accept it at face value.

Now the joy of my world is in Zion How beautiful if nothing more Than to wait at Zion's door I've never been in love like this before Now let me pray to keep you from The perils that will surely come
knickscity
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11/17/2013  2:11 PM
VCoug wrote:
playa2 wrote:
tkf wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Retool. Rebuilding won't bring a title to ny anytime soon. Won't even make us a good team. It's a challenge for even smart franchises.

you also need picks to retool.. we don't have that..... we need to get picks.. rebuilding and moving players will allow us to rebuild..

Rookies are younger these days since the days of Ewing(1 and done), what superstar rookie can come play in NYC with all the media and fans expectations and pressure and bring this franchise out of the doldrums.

Those who think we can win with rookies in this building(Worlds Most Famous Arena) is delusional.

THE PRESSURE AND ROOKIE WALL WOULD DESTROY THEM ! Think about it. This is why they try and grab vets and not young bucks to play here

Do you have any evidence to backup that rookies can't play in NY or are just supposed to accept it at face value.


I'm wondering when did we even have a superstar rookie to make this assumption.
Bonn1997
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11/17/2013  2:14 PM
smackeddog wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Well top ten is up for debate. He's just a volume PPG specialist. There is some value in that but I wouldn't put him remotely close to top 10.
He was third in mvp voting last year. I am waiting to hear some praise for his rebounding this year. That was always a criticism some had of him at the four spot.

Do Melo critics honestly not see that he played better last year than this year? This is not necessarily directed at Bonn, as I can't remember your views on Melo last year.


It's hard to say. His rebounding is a lot better but his shooting is a lot worse. Overall I do think he was better last year. I think a big part of the rebounding improvement is that he's sharing the boards with Bargs rather than Tyson.
Bonn1997
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11/17/2013  2:15 PM
knickscity wrote:
VCoug wrote:
playa2 wrote:
tkf wrote:
Knixkik wrote:Retool. Rebuilding won't bring a title to ny anytime soon. Won't even make us a good team. It's a challenge for even smart franchises.

you also need picks to retool.. we don't have that..... we need to get picks.. rebuilding and moving players will allow us to rebuild..

Rookies are younger these days since the days of Ewing(1 and done), what superstar rookie can come play in NYC with all the media and fans expectations and pressure and bring this franchise out of the doldrums.

Those who think we can win with rookies in this building(Worlds Most Famous Arena) is delusional.

THE PRESSURE AND ROOKIE WALL WOULD DESTROY THEM ! Think about it. This is why they try and grab vets and not young bucks to play here

Do you have any evidence to backup that rookies can't play in NY or are just supposed to accept it at face value.


I'm wondering when did we even have a superstar rookie to make this assumption.

1980s
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