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Honest question would you be happy if Dolan spent big money on RC Buford and Greg Popovich to run this organization from groun
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RonRon
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11/12/2013  8:47 AM
misterearl wrote:RonRon - you wrote at length, but you never addressed either question directly.

Hear The Answer Man now, and believe him later...

Dolan/ Cablevisionis not selling anytime soon. Profits, regardless of the record, will continue to roll in. The Knicks are a corporate asset, which means they can absorb mediocre performance on the court with its deep well of revenue, as a piece in a larger set of holdings.

For full year 2012, Cablevision consolidated net revenues increased 0.1% to $6.705 billion, consolidated AOCF decreased 17.2% to $1.899 billion and consolidated operating income decreased 38.2% to $759.5 million, all compared to 2011.

For full year 2011, Cablevision consolidated net revenues increased 8.5% to $6.701 billion, consolidated AOCF grew 8.1% to $2.295 billion and consolidated operating income grew 3.6% to $1.229 billion, all compared to 2010.

The Dolans fund the Knicks out of petty cash.

I am not talking about 1 year, I am talking about 5years + of continued sucking and building a deeper hole like we have done in our past

earl, I am saying for the generations after us, the reasons why "Kia" is going to try to hit the market and grab a piece of the pie
But instead BKLYN can over take the future up and coming generations BULK of future fans if we pull another 2000-2010
There is a lot at stake, that is the reason why the Russian spent Billions to make some noise, even on hundreds of millions on taxes, because it is about THE FUTURE BRAND they are building

AUTOADVERT
jrodmc
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11/12/2013  8:59 AM
fishmike wrote:
Sangfroid wrote:
tkf wrote:
fishmike wrote:those guys are good but is their record as impressive if they fall to #2 and pick Keith Van Horn instead of Tim Duncan? Would NY have the patience? This is NY, not SA... the environment is quite different

that is so true.. but here is what seperates the great organizations like the spurs from others... they have multiple rings because they were able to get gems like parker and ginobili with late picks..where other teams would have and did pass them up... They tend to maximize every asset they have....

I'm not much of a historian, but San Antonio had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get Robinson and then revisit that barrel to get Duncan. We've been low, but not that low since '85 with the Ewing draft. $200 seats and a full house in B'klyn demand some kind of winning.

they lost Robinson for a year and tanked and were the worst team in the league.
They have run a great organization, but its easier to draft and turn low picks into good players when your building around Tim Duncan. Its hard to find those players when your building around Melo, or Josh Smith or Al Horford or any of the lesser guys in the league who are still very good.

The Chicken and Egg revisited, Historically.

Yes, Pop looks like a genius. Mr. Duncan can do that for a coach.
Phil Jackson is a genius. Funny, the dudes who he got to coach to all those rings.
Red Auerbach was a genius. Bill Russell can do that for you, too. Red was quoted, after watching a rookie named Hondo run regulars into the floor "Boy, are people going to think I'm smart".

Pat Riley dragged us as far as he could, but until he matched Wade up with Diesel, no Heat rings were happening. 7 years between chips is obviously alot better than our consequences, but no Heat chips again until the mother of all starphucques occurred. And riley had Magic in his prior life to give him his "credibility" coming here.

“Woody’s not out there playing, we’re out there playing. You can’t blame Woody.

And conversely, you can't credit coaches, either. Not completely. Coaches coach; they don't score points and protect the lane. Players play. IMHO, the majority onus/bonus is on the players.

dk7th
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11/12/2013  9:13 AM
when stern intervened on behalf of the nba and asked dolan to hire a competent gm, walsh was brought in. most people assumed that he would be given complete autonomy. alas, when walsh's contract was nearing time for renewal or extension it was concurrent with the melo trade fiasco.

had the contract been for a more substantial length of time we may be looking at a much better situation than we have.

but let us remind ourselves that dolan was pretty much shamed into taking on walsh, and therefore walsh was not permitted to complete his work autonomously. seems to me that dolan pretty much bent the rules to suit his agenda. there were a number of times that we heard that walsh was annoyed by being interfered with.

there are many people whose opinion is that walsh did a terrible job while here but these are the same people who believe that trading for carmelo anthony was a great idea and are happy that dolan stepped in and closed the deal. i wonder if these people would still singing the same tune?

at any rate this thread is misguided, pure fantasy-- no person of character such as popovich or buford would ever come here so long as dolan is the owner. dolan only attracts and retains people of low character.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
tkf
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11/12/2013  9:15 AM
dk7th wrote:when stern intervened on behalf of the nba and asked dolan to hire a competent gm, walsh was brought in. most people assumed that he would be given complete autonomy. alas, when walsh's contract was nearing time for renewal or extension it was concurrent with the melo trade fiasco.

had the contract been for a more substantial length of time we may be looking at a much better situation than we have.

but let us remind ourselves that dolan was pretty much shamed into taking on walsh, and therefore walsh was not permitted to complete his work autonomously. seems to me that dolan pretty much bent the rules to suit his agenda. there were a number of times that we heard that walsh was annoyed by being interfered with.

there are many people whose opinion is that walsh did a terrible job while here but these are the same people who believe that trading for carmelo anthony was a great idea and are happy that dolan stepped in and closed the deal. i wonder if these people would still singing the same tune?

at any rate this thread is misguided, pure fantasy-- no person of character such as popovich or buford would ever come here so long as dolan is the owner. dolan only attracts and retains people of low character.

+100

Good post...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
Vmart
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11/12/2013  9:28 AM
jrodmc wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Sangfroid wrote:
tkf wrote:
fishmike wrote:those guys are good but is their record as impressive if they fall to #2 and pick Keith Van Horn instead of Tim Duncan? Would NY have the patience? This is NY, not SA... the environment is quite different

that is so true.. but here is what seperates the great organizations like the spurs from others... they have multiple rings because they were able to get gems like parker and ginobili with late picks..where other teams would have and did pass them up... They tend to maximize every asset they have....

I'm not much of a historian, but San Antonio had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get Robinson and then revisit that barrel to get Duncan. We've been low, but not that low since '85 with the Ewing draft. $200 seats and a full house in B'klyn demand some kind of winning.

they lost Robinson for a year and tanked and were the worst team in the league.
They have run a great organization, but its easier to draft and turn low picks into good players when your building around Tim Duncan. Its hard to find those players when your building around Melo, or Josh Smith or Al Horford or any of the lesser guys in the league who are still very good.

The Chicken and Egg revisited, Historically.

Yes, Pop looks like a genius. Mr. Duncan can do that for a coach.
Phil Jackson is a genius. Funny, the dudes who he got to coach to all those rings.
Red Auerbach was a genius. Bill Russell can do that for you, too. Red was quoted, after watching a rookie named Hondo run regulars into the floor "Boy, are people going to think I'm smart".

Pat Riley dragged us as far as he could, but until he matched Wade up with Diesel, no Heat rings were happening. 7 years between chips is obviously alot better than our consequences, but no Heat chips again until the mother of all starphucques occurred. And riley had Magic in his prior life to give him his "credibility" coming here.

“Woody’s not out there playing, we’re out there playing. You can’t blame Woody.

And conversely, you can't credit coaches, either. Not completely. Coaches coach; they don't score points and protect the lane. Players play. IMHO, the majority onus/bonus is on the players.

That's BS coaches are an integral part of the game they control who goes In and out the execution of X and O. They put the player in the best position to win games. The more talent you have the more the X and O come into play. The game plan is all about the coach.

jrodmc
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11/12/2013  9:46 AM
Vmart wrote:
jrodmc wrote:
fishmike wrote:
Sangfroid wrote:
tkf wrote:
fishmike wrote:those guys are good but is their record as impressive if they fall to #2 and pick Keith Van Horn instead of Tim Duncan? Would NY have the patience? This is NY, not SA... the environment is quite different

that is so true.. but here is what seperates the great organizations like the spurs from others... they have multiple rings because they were able to get gems like parker and ginobili with late picks..where other teams would have and did pass them up... They tend to maximize every asset they have....

I'm not much of a historian, but San Antonio had to scrape the bottom of the barrel to get Robinson and then revisit that barrel to get Duncan. We've been low, but not that low since '85 with the Ewing draft. $200 seats and a full house in B'klyn demand some kind of winning.

they lost Robinson for a year and tanked and were the worst team in the league.
They have run a great organization, but its easier to draft and turn low picks into good players when your building around Tim Duncan. Its hard to find those players when your building around Melo, or Josh Smith or Al Horford or any of the lesser guys in the league who are still very good.

The Chicken and Egg revisited, Historically.

Yes, Pop looks like a genius. Mr. Duncan can do that for a coach.
Phil Jackson is a genius. Funny, the dudes who he got to coach to all those rings.
Red Auerbach was a genius. Bill Russell can do that for you, too. Red was quoted, after watching a rookie named Hondo run regulars into the floor "Boy, are people going to think I'm smart".

Pat Riley dragged us as far as he could, but until he matched Wade up with Diesel, no Heat rings were happening. 7 years between chips is obviously alot better than our consequences, but no Heat chips again until the mother of all starphucques occurred. And riley had Magic in his prior life to give him his "credibility" coming here.

“Woody’s not out there playing, we’re out there playing. You can’t blame Woody.

And conversely, you can't credit coaches, either. Not completely. Coaches coach; they don't score points and protect the lane. Players play. IMHO, the majority onus/bonus is on the players.

That's BS coaches are an integral part of the game they control who goes In and out the execution of X and O. They put the player in the best position to win games. The more talent you have the more the X and O come into play. The game plan is all about the coach.

Like Larry Brown? Like Lenny Wilkens?

And the execution is all about the coach? MJ was all about the game plan? Kobe was all about the game plan? Shaq? Wade? Lebron? Duncan?
Are you going to follow up with some BS about Erik Spoelstra and his mastery of X's and O's?

RonRon
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Joined: 5/22/2002
Member: #246
11/12/2013  11:04 AM
Woodson has stopped his philosophy on "holding player accountable"
His mean stares and frustrated look does little to nothing to JR and Melo, while he uses his fake barks to show authority on ROOK's and other players


He is simply a horrible X and O's coach, doesn't believe in the power of DECEPTION and uses ISO
Not creative and is very stubborn, putting in lineups that DO NOT WORK
ON DEF, we constantly HELP and not play 1v1 DEF, and that is why we collapse, because we are not quick/mobile enough/ HIGH IQ to help one another and be able to stay with your own man


In GENERAL *of course certain matchups/rotations/situations change*, in my opinion, you ALWAYS try to defend your own man first, and then give the help your are capable of giving while still focusing on your own man, so you can be held ACCOUNTABLE
Of course, certain plays and certain matchups will change this, but to constantly help and switch is just a horrible strategy
Felton is big boned and lacks the speed/quickness to defend PG's, while he has trouble to get through screens and will ALWAYS go under the screen like Pablo does, meaning the opponents will always know they will have wide open shots


Instead of constantly helping, we need more players that are capable of defending their own man first, when we have a opponent that isn't a scoring threat than that many is the "CHEATER/HELP DEFENDER", but we have too many positions that need help
When someone is a light's out shooter, that man almost NEVER leaves him any room
, especially if he isn't very skilled like could penetrate/finish off the dribble or/and post up
Like there was no reason Kevin Martin/Danny Green was as open as many times as was, Kevin Love is another story, though I think he got too many good looks too
But Woodson's scheme of always helping rotating is just not possible to move as fast as the ball, especially with great ball movement like the Spur's has
It just DOES NOT WORK WOODSON


Look at how Indiana plays on OFF and DEF, they really play great TEAM ball with cohesiveness, I think they are ready to challenge the Heat this season as it was a close one last one arlready

It took time, they have improved much since their first year taking to Heat to 6 games in the ECF, improving again last year, and even more this year
I guess that is the result when you have the work horses DEVELOP TOGETHER and share the ball unselfishly, capable of playing on and off the ball off each others skills, and are willing to share the piece of the pie rather than OVERPAYING for players leaving little room/incentive for the rest of the team

BUT, anyway, LOOK at how EVERY SHOT THEY TAKE, they constantly put themselves in GREAT REBOUNDING POSITION for the OFFENSIVE REBOUND and at the same time, are read to run back for DEF if it doesn't fall their way

They understand the importance of POSITION on REBOUNDS on DEF too, but it is for each individual and as a TEAM collectively, they position themselves very well, and have great size/length/athleticism to go with it

You must credit the players, coach, shot selection, and ability to predict who and when their own team will shoot *for DEF 3 sec violations if not*
I must admit they work very well together, fighting for position for those OFF BOARDS and that is where most of their easy points and momentum plays/confidence come from


Unfortunately, for us, we have absolutely no CLUE how/when our own players will try to score or put up a shot and without Chandler, we have trouble getting OFF rebounds, especially without Kmart playing his role last season


I hope Murry gets the chance to play with Iman, MWP, Kmart, and another fill to prove himself
He should not be sitting with Chris Smith, that is a slap to his face

Felton has been trying to score a little too much of jump shots with no ball movement without much success
I am not blaming him either
But feel Melo has tried his best to cut down on "shot selection" not so Felton can get the green light to chuck
We need better shot selection collectively on higher percent shots as a habit
As for Felton's DEF, yes, he and Pablo's has been monsters with STEALS with the rest of the Knick's, but their DEF is just horrible without the speed needed
Back to the point up top about the picks and how they should do a better job calling it out/fighting through it, going over/under depending on situation and player is a shooter or not


Honest question would you be happy if Dolan spent big money on RC Buford and Greg Popovich to run this organization from groun

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