Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:trading earlier and admitting we made way too many mistakes since the deal for Melo, and retool with youth, assets, and CAP SPACE for 2015 FA class
The more we lose, the more lowballs we will get, unfortunately, we don't own this summer's draft pick...

in other words, Briggs does not see us stopping the bleeding with our lack of talent, and horrible coach with philosophies and lineups that don't work, but continues to be stubborn with it, lacking creativity and an actual system on both DEF and OFF

resigning Melo to a 20-30m contract will cost us another 10 years that he already cost us with the moves to get him, and the moves we were forced to overpay for since we were in "win now mode" with lack of flexibility and assets to offer

if we just let Walsh do his job, he would have just stayed patient, and sign players to trade, and collect/trade for assets, till the right deal came along which could have been

Cp3
Harden
D12

With no asset's and cap space, we have no shot at those players or future stars

Look at those players and what they were traded for, besides Ewing, NO OTHER TRADE is comparable, taking back 40-50m in salary for 1 player while rest are SCRUBs
Dolan couldn't resist the charm for Melo but now Melo is getting on his nerves talking about a contract while doing going as far as Gallo/Chandler and a FA that we could have signed with Curry's expiring could have got us the same result or better the past couple of years....

I don't understand why people think we had the assets to get CP3, Harden, or Dwight. Look at the players and major picks dealt in those deals. The only reason we got Melo was because he strong-armed his way here. Had he not done that and accepted a trade anywhere, he would have been traded to brooklyn for their package which appealed to Denver much more then our's. We had no high picks to trade, and while teams like Gallo and Chandler, they were not viewed as future stars by most teams.

Felton was traded for a 1st round pick and Andre Miller

Gallo and Wilson Chandler could have gotten us at least a 1st rounder EACH

AR could have gotten us a 2nd rounder
Mogov could have gotten us a 2nd rounder
Eddy Curry (expiring) could have landed us something
Even TD, who had a career year in 3pt shooting could have landed us a pick

in addition to the 2 GS 2nd round picks, that was predicted high 2nd round picks
1 swap and 1 1st rounder and 60 million in salary saved for Denver

Now look back at what those players were traded for, it didn't come with 40m of crap salary so you cannot build a team with cap space

So trade our players we drafted during our rebuilding process for more draft picks so we can start the rebuilding process again? Sounds like a really annoying cycle. At what point do you actually try and win? What happens after those draft picks play in the league for 3-4 years, do we try to trade them again for more draft picks? I don't get the logic.

You don't always trade them away. You decide which pieces are worth keeping and which aren't.
It couldn't be a worse cycle than Dolan's starphucking has been.

Rotating Assets is very important and keeping salary to sign STEALS that would become assets in possible trades and deals that are not long term if NOT
WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT, once you get that 1st tier ALL STAR in Harden, getting D12 or another All Star caliber player is easy, with a core of young role players
While for G/F's they used the minimum to fill in the blanks for rotation for 3pt shooters/defenders, the easiest spot the fill in the NBA and cost efficient....

So what did Houston do prior to getting Harden and then Dwight, in addition to the PG's and SG/SF's they recycled from

Looking back in their recent history

Trading Tmac's expiring for....
taking Jordan Hill, a 1st round pick, and a swap, for taking 1 year of Jared Jeffries, in which they traded Jordan Hill for another 1st round pick to the Lakers

Lowry/Dragic/Aaron Brooks

trading Ariza, Budinger, Kevin Martin, Courtney Lee, and then keeping Parsons as he was the youngest with the most upside and versatility

Samuel Dalembert

trading Camby/Lee and whatever for multiple 2nd rounders

When you have asset's all teams and the league will be willing to trade with you because you have what they want, especially with expirings, we gave all of that away and took back 40m of garbage salaries that hinders us to build a team under the CBA

They signed Lin and Asik with cap space and they are assets despite their salaries
Both are young and will have a role on any team, as they will continue to get better and develop, and are at least quality role players
Especially with Asik and despite their salaries, they are only slightly over paid at 8m per year at a reasonable length

So YES, recycling, trading, and signing short term deals without overpaying for talent is very important in BUILDING a CONTENDING TEAM with patience
It was only 2 years ago when no one thought Houston would be able to draw ALL STAR talent level players once Tmac and Yao past their prime

These were the same things Donnie Walsh was trying to do, be patient and COLLECT assets, and sign players that will gain value
Draft players that are HARD WORKERS on and off the court with 4 years of college for maturity over plain physical talent like Brandon Jennings/Lance Stephonson
Building a team without ego's and are able to both score, defend, and with chemistry that were coachable

The problem with recycle picks and players you draft is eventually to run into the scenario where you must pay some of those players or possibly lose them for nothing. Look at Denver and Utah for example after dealing Melo and DWill. Denver had to pay Gallo and Chandler and have other players making large contracts who are good but not great players. They have no cap space, no up and comers on rookie contracts other than possibly Faried and really no way to take the extra step. Utah will have to overpay Gordon Hayward this summer or lose him for nothing, and will run into that problem with some other players soon. Do you really want to be put in that situation? Its better to overpay all-stars then give market value to good role players and get stuck as a middle of the road team for the duration of those contracts. Not saying we did it the best way, but i would rather go all-in then be stuck in that position. At least our franchise has managed contracts to expire at the same time with potential to try again. We have 2015 with a great chance to improve.

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.. they won 57 games with those young guys, gallo and chandler have good deals, especially considering their talent level. We still haven't replaced those guys.. they would be the two best all around players on the knicks right now!!!

But you miss the point.. they are all loaded with Draft picks.. that is what the wanted.. they want to stay competitive while they rebuild.. Denver has done that and then some.. Utah is clearly looking for a high draft pick and they will get that most likely and can add that to the talent they have now.. it is a process so many of you stubbornly thumb your nose at in order to defend this mess we have ourselves in now!

Its better to overpay all-stars then give market value to good role players and get stuck as a middle of the road team for the duration of those contracts.

DUDE!! what makes you think Denver will be this way.. they won 57 games last year, and guess what, if the knicks miss the playoffs, which is a possibility, they will have a lottery pick.. can you imagine that team with Wiggins? better yet, how many teams will be kicking down denver's door to get a top 10 pick if they end up with that...

I would love to be in the nuggets position right now, over ours.. NO Doubt!!!!

jrodmc wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:trading earlier and admitting we made way too many mistakes since the deal for Melo, and retool with youth, assets, and CAP SPACE for 2015 FA class
The more we lose, the more lowballs we will get, unfortunately, we don't own this summer's draft pick...

in other words, Briggs does not see us stopping the bleeding with our lack of talent, and horrible coach with philosophies and lineups that don't work, but continues to be stubborn with it, lacking creativity and an actual system on both DEF and OFF

resigning Melo to a 20-30m contract will cost us another 10 years that he already cost us with the moves to get him, and the moves we were forced to overpay for since we were in "win now mode" with lack of flexibility and assets to offer

if we just let Walsh do his job, he would have just stayed patient, and sign players to trade, and collect/trade for assets, till the right deal came along which could have been

Cp3
Harden
D12

With no asset's and cap space, we have no shot at those players or future stars

Look at those players and what they were traded for, besides Ewing, NO OTHER TRADE is comparable, taking back 40-50m in salary for 1 player while rest are SCRUBs
Dolan couldn't resist the charm for Melo but now Melo is getting on his nerves talking about a contract while doing going as far as Gallo/Chandler and a FA that we could have signed with Curry's expiring could have got us the same result or better the past couple of years....

I don't understand why people think we had the assets to get CP3, Harden, or Dwight. Look at the players and major picks dealt in those deals. The only reason we got Melo was because he strong-armed his way here. Had he not done that and accepted a trade anywhere, he would have been traded to brooklyn for their package which appealed to Denver much more then our's. We had no high picks to trade, and while teams like Gallo and Chandler, they were not viewed as future stars by most teams.

Felton was traded for a 1st round pick and Andre Miller

Gallo and Wilson Chandler could have gotten us at least a 1st rounder EACH

AR could have gotten us a 2nd rounder
Mogov could have gotten us a 2nd rounder
Eddy Curry (expiring) could have landed us something
Even TD, who had a career year in 3pt shooting could have landed us a pick

in addition to the 2 GS 2nd round picks, that was predicted high 2nd round picks
1 swap and 1 1st rounder and 60 million in salary saved for Denver

Now look back at what those players were traded for, it didn't come with 40m of crap salary so you cannot build a team with cap space

So trade our players we drafted during our rebuilding process for more draft picks so we can start the rebuilding process again? Sounds like a really annoying cycle. At what point do you actually try and win? What happens after those draft picks play in the league for 3-4 years, do we try to trade them again for more draft picks? I don't get the logic.

You don't always trade them away. You decide which pieces are worth keeping and which aren't.
It couldn't be a worse cycle than Dolan's starphucking has been.

Rotating Assets is very important and keeping salary to sign STEALS that would become assets in possible trades and deals that are not long term if NOT
WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT, once you get that 1st tier ALL STAR in Harden, getting D12 or another All Star caliber player is easy, with a core of young role players
While for G/F's they used the minimum to fill in the blanks for rotation for 3pt shooters/defenders, the easiest spot the fill in the NBA and cost efficient....

So what did Houston do prior to getting Harden and then Dwight, in addition to the PG's and SG/SF's they recycled from

Looking back in their recent history

Trading Tmac's expiring for....
taking Jordan Hill, a 1st round pick, and a swap, for taking 1 year of Jared Jeffries, in which they traded Jordan Hill for another 1st round pick to the Lakers

Lowry/Dragic/Aaron Brooks

trading Ariza, Budinger, Kevin Martin, Courtney Lee, and then keeping Parsons as he was the youngest with the most upside and versatility

Samuel Dalembert

trading Camby/Lee and whatever for multiple 2nd rounders

When you have asset's all teams and the league will be willing to trade with you because you have what they want, especially with expirings, we gave all of that away and took back 40m of garbage salaries that hinders us to build a team under the CBA

They signed Lin and Asik with cap space and they are assets despite their salaries
Both are young and will have a role on any team, as they will continue to get better and develop, and are at least quality role players
Especially with Asik and despite their salaries, they are only slightly over paid at 8m per year at a reasonable length

So YES, recycling, trading, and signing short term deals without overpaying for talent is very important in BUILDING a CONTENDING TEAM with patience
It was only 2 years ago when no one thought Houston would be able to draw ALL STAR talent level players once Tmac and Yao past their prime

These were the same things Donnie Walsh was trying to do, be patient and COLLECT assets, and sign players that will gain value
Draft players that are HARD WORKERS on and off the court with 4 years of college for maturity over plain physical talent like Brandon Jennings/Lance Stephonson
Building a team without ego's and are able to both score, defend, and with chemistry that were coachable

The problem with recycle picks and players you draft is eventually to run into the scenario where you must pay some of those players or possibly lose them for nothing. Look at Denver and Utah for example after dealing Melo and DWill. Denver had to pay Gallo and Chandler and have other players making large contracts who are good but not great players. They have no cap space, no up and comers on rookie contracts other than possibly Faried and really no way to take the extra step. Utah will have to overpay Gordon Hayward this summer or lose him for nothing, and will run into that problem with some other players soon. Do you really want to be put in that situation? Its better to overpay all-stars then give market value to good role players and get stuck as a middle of the road team for the duration of those contracts. Not saying we did it the best way, but i would rather go all-in then be stuck in that position. At least our franchise has managed contracts to expire at the same time with potential to try again. We have 2015 with a great chance to improve.

+1
This neverending worldview that you draft your way to relevance does not automagically pan out. Dallas drafted Dirk and took ten effing years to win a chip with an assortment of starphuchs. Boston the same thing, and Rondo was not the key to their chip squad; anyone who thinks so is deranged, and I hate KG and PP more than anyone on here. Tim Duncans and LeQ's and Durants don't grow on trees. That's three franchise players. OKC drafted Harden and promptly let him go. Starphucqing plays a key part in every chip but SanTones'.

Can anyone admit we've improved every year Melo's been here, and then talk about the logical beauty of AR for a second round pick would have us winning a chip this year? DHow couldn't stand playing in LA, but he's going to be the main man in NYC? Why is CP3 coming here in 2010? To play with who? Your dream draft pick? Stat? Gallo? Mozgov? Chandler?

I'm pretty sure Mike Woodson remembers the 1980 NY Knicks--because I do. We won 50 games that year and we were supposed to be on a sustained uptick. We had a similar season 7 years later with Rick Pitino but the Knicks did not stabilize until
A.they drafted Patrick Ewing and B brought on Pat Riley. Carmelo's a great player but he handcuffed us with that trade and when he signs for 30mm per--it will take up too much cap space for us to improve. So it will be one player in his 30's on the downside of his career who will dominate the salary cap and the Knicks fans will be praying we can piece mail it together. If Lebron James was on the KNicks would we be 2-4 with multiple blowouts and three home losses--answer no. Hes a player who is an upper tier NBA player but hes not the guy you do anything to keep at all costs. The one thing I dont get with Dolan--if he has all of this money--why didnt he just overspend to get Popovich and R C Buford--and just let them do their thing?
.

It's nice to dream, but try returning to live with reality.

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:trading earlier and admitting we made way too many mistakes since the deal for Melo, and retool with youth, assets, and CAP SPACE for 2015 FA class
The more we lose, the more lowballs we will get, unfortunately, we don't own this summer's draft pick...

in other words, Briggs does not see us stopping the bleeding with our lack of talent, and horrible coach with philosophies and lineups that don't work, but continues to be stubborn with it, lacking creativity and an actual system on both DEF and OFF

resigning Melo to a 20-30m contract will cost us another 10 years that he already cost us with the moves to get him, and the moves we were forced to overpay for since we were in "win now mode" with lack of flexibility and assets to offer

if we just let Walsh do his job, he would have just stayed patient, and sign players to trade, and collect/trade for assets, till the right deal came along which could have been

Cp3
Harden
D12

With no asset's and cap space, we have no shot at those players or future stars

Look at those players and what they were traded for, besides Ewing, NO OTHER TRADE is comparable, taking back 40-50m in salary for 1 player while rest are SCRUBs
Dolan couldn't resist the charm for Melo but now Melo is getting on his nerves talking about a contract while doing going as far as Gallo/Chandler and a FA that we could have signed with Curry's expiring could have got us the same result or better the past couple of years....

I don't understand why people think we had the assets to get CP3, Harden, or Dwight. Look at the players and major picks dealt in those deals. The only reason we got Melo was because he strong-armed his way here. Had he not done that and accepted a trade anywhere, he would have been traded to brooklyn for their package which appealed to Denver much more then our's. We had no high picks to trade, and while teams like Gallo and Chandler, they were not viewed as future stars by most teams.

Felton was traded for a 1st round pick and Andre Miller

Gallo and Wilson Chandler could have gotten us at least a 1st rounder EACH

AR could have gotten us a 2nd rounder
Mogov could have gotten us a 2nd rounder
Eddy Curry (expiring) could have landed us something
Even TD, who had a career year in 3pt shooting could have landed us a pick

in addition to the 2 GS 2nd round picks, that was predicted high 2nd round picks
1 swap and 1 1st rounder and 60 million in salary saved for Denver

Now look back at what those players were traded for, it didn't come with 40m of crap salary so you cannot build a team with cap space

So trade our players we drafted during our rebuilding process for more draft picks so we can start the rebuilding process again? Sounds like a really annoying cycle. At what point do you actually try and win? What happens after those draft picks play in the league for 3-4 years, do we try to trade them again for more draft picks? I don't get the logic.

You don't always trade them away. You decide which pieces are worth keeping and which aren't.
It couldn't be a worse cycle than Dolan's starphucking has been.

Rotating Assets is very important and keeping salary to sign STEALS that would become assets in possible trades and deals that are not long term if NOT
WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT, once you get that 1st tier ALL STAR in Harden, getting D12 or another All Star caliber player is easy, with a core of young role players
While for G/F's they used the minimum to fill in the blanks for rotation for 3pt shooters/defenders, the easiest spot the fill in the NBA and cost efficient....

So what did Houston do prior to getting Harden and then Dwight, in addition to the PG's and SG/SF's they recycled from

Looking back in their recent history

Trading Tmac's expiring for....
taking Jordan Hill, a 1st round pick, and a swap, for taking 1 year of Jared Jeffries, in which they traded Jordan Hill for another 1st round pick to the Lakers

Lowry/Dragic/Aaron Brooks

trading Ariza, Budinger, Kevin Martin, Courtney Lee, and then keeping Parsons as he was the youngest with the most upside and versatility

Samuel Dalembert

trading Camby/Lee and whatever for multiple 2nd rounders

When you have asset's all teams and the league will be willing to trade with you because you have what they want, especially with expirings, we gave all of that away and took back 40m of garbage salaries that hinders us to build a team under the CBA

They signed Lin and Asik with cap space and they are assets despite their salaries
Both are young and will have a role on any team, as they will continue to get better and develop, and are at least quality role players
Especially with Asik and despite their salaries, they are only slightly over paid at 8m per year at a reasonable length

So YES, recycling, trading, and signing short term deals without overpaying for talent is very important in BUILDING a CONTENDING TEAM with patience
It was only 2 years ago when no one thought Houston would be able to draw ALL STAR talent level players once Tmac and Yao past their prime

These were the same things Donnie Walsh was trying to do, be patient and COLLECT assets, and sign players that will gain value
Draft players that are HARD WORKERS on and off the court with 4 years of college for maturity over plain physical talent like Brandon Jennings/Lance Stephonson
Building a team without ego's and are able to both score, defend, and with chemistry that were coachable

The problem with recycle picks and players you draft is eventually to run into the scenario where you must pay some of those players or possibly lose them for nothing. Look at Denver and Utah for example after dealing Melo and DWill. Denver had to pay Gallo and Chandler and have other players making large contracts who are good but not great players. They have no cap space, no up and comers on rookie contracts other than possibly Faried and really no way to take the extra step. Utah will have to overpay Gordon Hayward this summer or lose him for nothing, and will run into that problem with some other players soon. Do you really want to be put in that situation? Its better to overpay all-stars then give market value to good role players and get stuck as a middle of the road team for the duration of those contracts. Not saying we did it the best way, but i would rather go all-in then be stuck in that position. At least our franchise has managed contracts to expire at the same time with potential to try again. We have 2015 with a great chance to improve.

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.. they won 57 games with those young guys, gallo and chandler have good deals, especially considering their talent level. We still haven't replaced those guys.. they would be the two best all around players on the knicks right now!!!

But you miss the point.. they are all loaded with Draft picks.. that is what the wanted.. they want to stay competitive while they rebuild.. Denver has done that and then some.. Utah is clearly looking for a high draft pick and they will get that most likely and can add that to the talent they have now.. it is a process so many of you stubbornly thumb your nose at in order to defend this mess we have ourselves in now!

Its better to overpay all-stars then give market value to good role players and get stuck as a middle of the road team for the duration of those contracts.

DUDE!! what makes you think Denver will be this way.. they won 57 games last year, and guess what, if the knicks miss the playoffs, which is a possibility, they will have a lottery pick.. can you imagine that team with Wiggins? better yet, how many teams will be kicking down denver's door to get a top 10 pick if they end up with that...

I would love to be in the nuggets position right now, over ours.. NO Doubt!!!!

Denver is looking at a significant step back this season and there is no indication that they have the talent or flexibility to allow them to improve to better than they are now. For all you and I know, last season was their peak as currently constructed. If they get lucky in the draft, maybe they improve, but its far from a sure thing. I still have yet to see a championship team built the way they are. Take Melo out of the equation, i would still rather be in the Knicks boat than the Nuggets, with clean slate of salary cap instead of a bunch of good but not great players on non-rookie contracts. You are overrating them so much its unreal.

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:trading earlier and admitting we made way too many mistakes since the deal for Melo, and retool with youth, assets, and CAP SPACE for 2015 FA class
The more we lose, the more lowballs we will get, unfortunately, we don't own this summer's draft pick...

in other words, Briggs does not see us stopping the bleeding with our lack of talent, and horrible coach with philosophies and lineups that don't work, but continues to be stubborn with it, lacking creativity and an actual system on both DEF and OFF

resigning Melo to a 20-30m contract will cost us another 10 years that he already cost us with the moves to get him, and the moves we were forced to overpay for since we were in "win now mode" with lack of flexibility and assets to offer

if we just let Walsh do his job, he would have just stayed patient, and sign players to trade, and collect/trade for assets, till the right deal came along which could have been

Cp3
Harden
D12

With no asset's and cap space, we have no shot at those players or future stars

Look at those players and what they were traded for, besides Ewing, NO OTHER TRADE is comparable, taking back 40-50m in salary for 1 player while rest are SCRUBs
Dolan couldn't resist the charm for Melo but now Melo is getting on his nerves talking about a contract while doing going as far as Gallo/Chandler and a FA that we could have signed with Curry's expiring could have got us the same result or better the past couple of years....

I don't understand why people think we had the assets to get CP3, Harden, or Dwight. Look at the players and major picks dealt in those deals. The only reason we got Melo was because he strong-armed his way here. Had he not done that and accepted a trade anywhere, he would have been traded to brooklyn for their package which appealed to Denver much more then our's. We had no high picks to trade, and while teams like Gallo and Chandler, they were not viewed as future stars by most teams.

Felton was traded for a 1st round pick and Andre Miller

Gallo and Wilson Chandler could have gotten us at least a 1st rounder EACH

AR could have gotten us a 2nd rounder
Mogov could have gotten us a 2nd rounder
Eddy Curry (expiring) could have landed us something
Even TD, who had a career year in 3pt shooting could have landed us a pick

in addition to the 2 GS 2nd round picks, that was predicted high 2nd round picks
1 swap and 1 1st rounder and 60 million in salary saved for Denver

Now look back at what those players were traded for, it didn't come with 40m of crap salary so you cannot build a team with cap space

So trade our players we drafted during our rebuilding process for more draft picks so we can start the rebuilding process again? Sounds like a really annoying cycle. At what point do you actually try and win? What happens after those draft picks play in the league for 3-4 years, do we try to trade them again for more draft picks? I don't get the logic.

You don't always trade them away. You decide which pieces are worth keeping and which aren't.
It couldn't be a worse cycle than Dolan's starphucking has been.

Rotating Assets is very important and keeping salary to sign STEALS that would become assets in possible trades and deals that are not long term if NOT
WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT, once you get that 1st tier ALL STAR in Harden, getting D12 or another All Star caliber player is easy, with a core of young role players
While for G/F's they used the minimum to fill in the blanks for rotation for 3pt shooters/defenders, the easiest spot the fill in the NBA and cost efficient....

So what did Houston do prior to getting Harden and then Dwight, in addition to the PG's and SG/SF's they recycled from

Looking back in their recent history

Trading Tmac's expiring for....
taking Jordan Hill, a 1st round pick, and a swap, for taking 1 year of Jared Jeffries, in which they traded Jordan Hill for another 1st round pick to the Lakers

Lowry/Dragic/Aaron Brooks

trading Ariza, Budinger, Kevin Martin, Courtney Lee, and then keeping Parsons as he was the youngest with the most upside and versatility

Samuel Dalembert

trading Camby/Lee and whatever for multiple 2nd rounders

When you have asset's all teams and the league will be willing to trade with you because you have what they want, especially with expirings, we gave all of that away and took back 40m of garbage salaries that hinders us to build a team under the CBA

They signed Lin and Asik with cap space and they are assets despite their salaries
Both are young and will have a role on any team, as they will continue to get better and develop, and are at least quality role players
Especially with Asik and despite their salaries, they are only slightly over paid at 8m per year at a reasonable length

So YES, recycling, trading, and signing short term deals without overpaying for talent is very important in BUILDING a CONTENDING TEAM with patience
It was only 2 years ago when no one thought Houston would be able to draw ALL STAR talent level players once Tmac and Yao past their prime

These were the same things Donnie Walsh was trying to do, be patient and COLLECT assets, and sign players that will gain value
Draft players that are HARD WORKERS on and off the court with 4 years of college for maturity over plain physical talent like Brandon Jennings/Lance Stephonson
Building a team without ego's and are able to both score, defend, and with chemistry that were coachable

The problem with recycle picks and players you draft is eventually to run into the scenario where you must pay some of those players or possibly lose them for nothing. Look at Denver and Utah for example after dealing Melo and DWill. Denver had to pay Gallo and Chandler and have other players making large contracts who are good but not great players. They have no cap space, no up and comers on rookie contracts other than possibly Faried and really no way to take the extra step. Utah will have to overpay Gordon Hayward this summer or lose him for nothing, and will run into that problem with some other players soon. Do you really want to be put in that situation? Its better to overpay all-stars then give market value to good role players and get stuck as a middle of the road team for the duration of those contracts. Not saying we did it the best way, but i would rather go all-in then be stuck in that position. At least our franchise has managed contracts to expire at the same time with potential to try again. We have 2015 with a great chance to improve.

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.. they won 57 games with those young guys, gallo and chandler have good deals, especially considering their talent level. We still haven't replaced those guys.. they would be the two best all around players on the knicks right now!!!

But you miss the point.. they are all loaded with Draft picks.. that is what the wanted.. they want to stay competitive while they rebuild.. Denver has done that and then some.. Utah is clearly looking for a high draft pick and they will get that most likely and can add that to the talent they have now.. it is a process so many of you stubbornly thumb your nose at in order to defend this mess we have ourselves in now!

Its better to overpay all-stars then give market value to good role players and get stuck as a middle of the road team for the duration of those contracts.

DUDE!! what makes you think Denver will be this way.. they won 57 games last year, and guess what, if the knicks miss the playoffs, which is a possibility, they will have a lottery pick.. can you imagine that team with Wiggins? better yet, how many teams will be kicking down denver's door to get a top 10 pick if they end up with that...

I would love to be in the nuggets position right now, over ours.. NO Doubt!!!!

Denver could be in great condition to win huge in the 2014 draft with potentially two lottery picks and a high 2.

Denver is looking at a significant step back this season and there is no indication that they have the talent or flexibility to allow them to improve to better than they are now. For all you and I know, last season was their peak as currently constructed. If they get lucky in the draft, maybe they improve, but its far from a sure thing. I still have yet to see a championship team built the way they are. Take Melo out of the equation, i would still rather be in the Knicks boat than the Nuggets, with clean slate of salary cap instead of a bunch of good but not great players on non-rookie contracts. You are overrating them so much its unreal.

Knixkik wrote:

tkf wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:trading earlier and admitting we made way too many mistakes since the deal for Melo, and retool with youth, assets, and CAP SPACE for 2015 FA class
The more we lose, the more lowballs we will get, unfortunately, we don't own this summer's draft pick...

in other words, Briggs does not see us stopping the bleeding with our lack of talent, and horrible coach with philosophies and lineups that don't work, but continues to be stubborn with it, lacking creativity and an actual system on both DEF and OFF

resigning Melo to a 20-30m contract will cost us another 10 years that he already cost us with the moves to get him, and the moves we were forced to overpay for since we were in "win now mode" with lack of flexibility and assets to offer

if we just let Walsh do his job, he would have just stayed patient, and sign players to trade, and collect/trade for assets, till the right deal came along which could have been

Cp3
Harden
D12

With no asset's and cap space, we have no shot at those players or future stars

Look at those players and what they were traded for, besides Ewing, NO OTHER TRADE is comparable, taking back 40-50m in salary for 1 player while rest are SCRUBs
Dolan couldn't resist the charm for Melo but now Melo is getting on his nerves talking about a contract while doing going as far as Gallo/Chandler and a FA that we could have signed with Curry's expiring could have got us the same result or better the past couple of years....

I don't understand why people think we had the assets to get CP3, Harden, or Dwight. Look at the players and major picks dealt in those deals. The only reason we got Melo was because he strong-armed his way here. Had he not done that and accepted a trade anywhere, he would have been traded to brooklyn for their package which appealed to Denver much more then our's. We had no high picks to trade, and while teams like Gallo and Chandler, they were not viewed as future stars by most teams.

Felton was traded for a 1st round pick and Andre Miller

Gallo and Wilson Chandler could have gotten us at least a 1st rounder EACH

AR could have gotten us a 2nd rounder
Mogov could have gotten us a 2nd rounder
Eddy Curry (expiring) could have landed us something
Even TD, who had a career year in 3pt shooting could have landed us a pick

in addition to the 2 GS 2nd round picks, that was predicted high 2nd round picks
1 swap and 1 1st rounder and 60 million in salary saved for Denver

Now look back at what those players were traded for, it didn't come with 40m of crap salary so you cannot build a team with cap space

So trade our players we drafted during our rebuilding process for more draft picks so we can start the rebuilding process again? Sounds like a really annoying cycle. At what point do you actually try and win? What happens after those draft picks play in the league for 3-4 years, do we try to trade them again for more draft picks? I don't get the logic.

You don't always trade them away. You decide which pieces are worth keeping and which aren't.
It couldn't be a worse cycle than Dolan's starphucking has been.

Rotating Assets is very important and keeping salary to sign STEALS that would become assets in possible trades and deals that are not long term if NOT
WHEN THE TIME IS RIGHT, once you get that 1st tier ALL STAR in Harden, getting D12 or another All Star caliber player is easy, with a core of young role players
While for G/F's they used the minimum to fill in the blanks for rotation for 3pt shooters/defenders, the easiest spot the fill in the NBA and cost efficient....

So what did Houston do prior to getting Harden and then Dwight, in addition to the PG's and SG/SF's they recycled from

Looking back in their recent history

Trading Tmac's expiring for....
taking Jordan Hill, a 1st round pick, and a swap, for taking 1 year of Jared Jeffries, in which they traded Jordan Hill for another 1st round pick to the Lakers

Lowry/Dragic/Aaron Brooks

trading Ariza, Budinger, Kevin Martin, Courtney Lee, and then keeping Parsons as he was the youngest with the most upside and versatility

Samuel Dalembert

trading Camby/Lee and whatever for multiple 2nd rounders

When you have asset's all teams and the league will be willing to trade with you because you have what they want, especially with expirings, we gave all of that away and took back 40m of garbage salaries that hinders us to build a team under the CBA

They signed Lin and Asik with cap space and they are assets despite their salaries
Both are young and will have a role on any team, as they will continue to get better and develop, and are at least quality role players
Especially with Asik and despite their salaries, they are only slightly over paid at 8m per year at a reasonable length

So YES, recycling, trading, and signing short term deals without overpaying for talent is very important in BUILDING a CONTENDING TEAM with patience
It was only 2 years ago when no one thought Houston would be able to draw ALL STAR talent level players once Tmac and Yao past their prime

These were the same things Donnie Walsh was trying to do, be patient and COLLECT assets, and sign players that will gain value
Draft players that are HARD WORKERS on and off the court with 4 years of college for maturity over plain physical talent like Brandon Jennings/Lance Stephonson
Building a team without ego's and are able to both score, defend, and with chemistry that were coachable

The problem with recycle picks and players you draft is eventually to run into the scenario where you must pay some of those players or possibly lose them for nothing. Look at Denver and Utah for example after dealing Melo and DWill. Denver had to pay Gallo and Chandler and have other players making large contracts who are good but not great players. They have no cap space, no up and comers on rookie contracts other than possibly Faried and really no way to take the extra step. Utah will have to overpay Gordon Hayward this summer or lose him for nothing, and will run into that problem with some other players soon. Do you really want to be put in that situation? Its better to overpay all-stars then give market value to good role players and get stuck as a middle of the road team for the duration of those contracts. Not saying we did it the best way, but i would rather go all-in then be stuck in that position. At least our franchise has managed contracts to expire at the same time with potential to try again. We have 2015 with a great chance to improve.

This is the most ridiculous thing I have ever read.. they won 57 games with those young guys, gallo and chandler have good deals, especially considering their talent level. We still haven't replaced those guys.. they would be the two best all around players on the knicks right now!!!

But you miss the point.. they are all loaded with Draft picks.. that is what the wanted.. they want to stay competitive while they rebuild.. Denver has done that and then some.. Utah is clearly looking for a high draft pick and they will get that most likely and can add that to the talent they have now.. it is a process so many of you stubbornly thumb your nose at in order to defend this mess we have ourselves in now!

Its better to overpay all-stars then give market value to good role players and get stuck as a middle of the road team for the duration of those contracts.

DUDE!! what makes you think Denver will be this way.. they won 57 games last year, and guess what, if the knicks miss the playoffs, which is a possibility, they will have a lottery pick.. can you imagine that team with Wiggins? better yet, how many teams will be kicking down denver's door to get a top 10 pick if they end up with that...

I would love to be in the nuggets position right now, over ours.. NO Doubt!!!!

Denver is looking at a significant step back this season and there is no indication that they have the talent or flexibility to allow them to improve to better than they are now. For all you and I know, last season was their peak as currently constructed. If they get lucky in the draft, maybe they improve, but its far from a sure thing. I still have yet to see a championship team built the way they are. Take Melo out of the equation, i would still rather be in the Knicks boat than the Nuggets, with clean slate of salary cap instead of a bunch of good but not great players on non-rookie contracts. You are overrating them so much its unreal.

adjective
1.
(of an argument or statement) seeming reasonable or probable.
"a plausible explanation"

synonymous: credible, reasonable, believable, likely, feasible, tenable, possible,

fishmike wrote:at this point its far more plau·si·ble that Melo shoots us to a title then anything run by Dolan being built right

I have brought this up in a variety of ways. Look at teams like the Kings, Bucks, Bobcats, Suns, Raptors, etc who have been struggling to rebuild "the right way" for so many years. What indication do the pro-rebuild fans have that this team will be managed to any better results? It is better to use the advantage that NYC and MSG have and attract the best possible talent with a clean payroll. Having Melo and hopefully a fair amount of cap room is a much better place to be then tearing the house down for a chance to build it back up. In addition to that, more teams win by aquiring big time talent via trade and free agency then in the draft.

And for better or worst CAA came packaged with Melo

So it is not inconceivable to cut our losses and try to move forward and build the team with savyness and professionalism up top

OUT:
Woodson
Melo
JR
Chris

OUT

Amare Stoudemire, until he can go every night
Raymond Felton, who will sulk but needs to play different
Chris Smith
Kenyon Martin, until he can go every night

IN

Cole Aldrich
Toure Murry
Ike Diogu
6'10 D League stud

That changes one quarter of the roster mix

Heads must roll

fishmike wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

fishmike wrote:at this point its far more plau·si·ble that Melo shoots us to a title then anything run by Dolan being built right

I have brought this up in a variety of ways. Look at teams like the Kings, Bucks, Bobcats, Suns, Raptors, etc who have been struggling to rebuild "the right way" for so many years. What indication do the pro-rebuild fans have that this team will be managed to any better results? It is better to use the advantage that NYC and MSG have and attract the best possible talent with a clean payroll. Having Melo and hopefully a fair amount of cap room is a much better place to be then tearing the house down for a chance to build it back up. In addition to that, more teams win by aquiring big time talent via trade and free agency then in the draft.

took the Bulls well over 10 years to do the same. At the time their drafts werent bad either, most thought guys like Jay Williams, Eddy Curry, Tyson, etc where good build around picks. Then you get bad luck and the best player available is Marcus Fizer.

I wont lie.. I once thought Melo was a part of the problem as some. If you watched at all last year he's not. This roster is total crap, zero player dev andthe Chris Smith thing will honestly ruin the season. Im serious. When you award those who dont deserve it ruins the environment. Ive seen it at previous places Ive worked. It always leads to failure. Knicks are no different. When you see guys who worked their asses off for a roster spot only to see it go to a guy worth nothing it sends a clear message. Its not about effort or results. Its about creating a CAA playground.

It's hurting now and there going to have to right the ship on that one and i think roster could work if used properly. But i think it's going to take a discipline coach to make it happen and right now woodsons mind isn't right..