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Need to rebuild before we get a repeat of Isiah thomas years
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Bonn1997
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11/10/2013  6:00 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Clean wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I think you have to know what and who you are. The Knicks are not changing ownership and are not rebuilding. They don't have many picks anyway. They do have a star in his twenties and they can try to build around him. Their cap situation (Amare) limits what they can do. I thought Grunwald was very smart in how he was assembling the team. His firing and the keeping of Chris Smith certainly are discouraging. The new cba doesn't allow for a flavor of the month approach like Isiah had.

Trading what we did for Bargs says otherwise.

They traded almost nothing for Bargs.

crush-- a 2014 2nd rounder--believe me that is going to be like a #1 a 2016 #1 adn a 2017 is a sizeable amount for a player no one else wanted to pay for.

It is projected to be the 59th pick in the draft. It was okc's pick.

We gave up a first round pic too
And another 2nd round pic.
They should have been giving us pics for taking Bargnani in exchange for the best 3 point shooter in the game.
AUTOADVERT
CrushAlot
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11/10/2013  6:06 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Clean wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I think you have to know what and who you are. The Knicks are not changing ownership and are not rebuilding. They don't have many picks anyway. They do have a star in his twenties and they can try to build around him. Their cap situation (Amare) limits what they can do. I thought Grunwald was very smart in how he was assembling the team. His firing and the keeping of Chris Smith certainly are discouraging. The new cba doesn't allow for a flavor of the month approach like Isiah had.

Trading what we did for Bargs says otherwise.

They traded almost nothing for Bargs.

crush-- a 2014 2nd rounder--believe me that is going to be like a #1 a 2016 #1 adn a 2017 is a sizeable amount for a player no one else wanted to pay for.

It is projected to be the 59th pick in the draft. It was okc's pick.

We gave up a first round pic too
And another 2nd round pic.
They should have been giving us pics for taking Bargnani in exchange for the best 3 point shooter in the game.

Well Novak has been dressed for the last several games and got into the last two. Maybe things are looking up for him there.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
VCoug
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11/10/2013  6:36 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
BRIGGS wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Clean wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:I think you have to know what and who you are. The Knicks are not changing ownership and are not rebuilding. They don't have many picks anyway. They do have a star in his twenties and they can try to build around him. Their cap situation (Amare) limits what they can do. I thought Grunwald was very smart in how he was assembling the team. His firing and the keeping of Chris Smith certainly are discouraging. The new cba doesn't allow for a flavor of the month approach like Isiah had.

Trading what we did for Bargs says otherwise.

They traded almost nothing for Bargs.

crush-- a 2014 2nd rounder--believe me that is going to be like a #1 a 2016 #1 adn a 2017 is a sizeable amount for a player no one else wanted to pay for.

It is projected to be the 59th pick in the draft. It was okc's pick.

We gave up a first round pic too
And another 2nd round pic.
They should have been giving us pics for taking Bargnani in exchange for the best 3 point shooter in the game.

Yep. OKC's 2nd rounder this year, a 1st rounder in 2016, and our 2nd rounder in 2017.
dk7th
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11/10/2013  7:03 PM
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Tank while the Nets go for a chip...Yeah, that's happening...
Obviously James Dolan is a moron so i dont expect him to make things better. this is just me as a diehard knick fan hoping for the good of the teams future

Dolan is far from being a moron..Dolan has tripled his money last year and half ...

takes one to know one. dolan is a moron and of low character to boot. he is merely a fortunate moron because new york city has 20 million potential seat fillers from which can be culled 19,000 customers every game. by sheer numbers there is a constant supply line of morons who are eager to be entertained by the slop he puts on the floor. it is really the most cynical of situations....


I don't understand this..You are one of the biggest supporters of MDA and Donnie...Donnie gave a guy with bad knees 100 mil over 5 years..MDA ran him into the ground in half a season and now u complain about Dolan???...U were constantly talking about Donnie's vision and the .500 team and now u are pissed???

i never said i was a supporter of d'antoni. he got a raw deal-- two years of necessary failure via roster flush, with the promise of a fresh start and a light at the end of the tunnel in 2010-- only to have the rug pulled out from under him by lebron and dolan... so by default he has my sympathies.

walsh? i thought he did just fine. it is not his fault that he had to follow the edict of a moron owner who is the touchstone for a bread and circuses fanbase... and feel compelled to pick up a big name who is not a franchise level talent. a real visionary owner would have the courage to rebuild, at worst break even for a few seasons and would have allowed walsh to do his job. then walsh got shoved aside by that same moron owner so walsh also has my sympathies.

the main problem with this franchise is the owner-- he only attracts and retains people of low character.

that, and it is never melo's fault. what he said cannot be unsaid... and he has hurt the team. it is as plain as the nose on your face. the guy is just like dolan. and yet i have the faintest of sympathy for him because he doesn't realize how dreadfully stupid he is.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
CrushAlot
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11/10/2013  7:10 PM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Tank while the Nets go for a chip...Yeah, that's happening...
Obviously James Dolan is a moron so i dont expect him to make things better. this is just me as a diehard knick fan hoping for the good of the teams future

Dolan is far from being a moron..Dolan has tripled his money last year and half ...

takes one to know one. dolan is a moron and of low character to boot. he is merely a fortunate moron because new york city has 20 million potential seat fillers from which can be culled 19,000 customers every game. by sheer numbers there is a constant supply line of morons who are eager to be entertained by the slop he puts on the floor. it is really the most cynical of situations....


I don't understand this..You are one of the biggest supporters of MDA and Donnie...Donnie gave a guy with bad knees 100 mil over 5 years..MDA ran him into the ground in half a season and now u complain about Dolan???...U were constantly talking about Donnie's vision and the .500 team and now u are pissed???

i never said i was a supporter of d'antoni. he got a raw deal-- two years of necessary failure via roster flush, with the promise of a fresh start and a light at the end of the tunnel in 2010-- only to have the rug pulled out from under him by lebron and dolan... so by default he has my sympathies.

walsh? i thought he did just fine. it is not his fault that he had to follow the edict of a moron owner who is the touchstone for a bread and circuses fanbase... and feel compelled to pick up a big name who is not a franchise level talent. a real visionary owner would have the courage to rebuild, at worst break even for a few seasons and would have allowed walsh to do his job. then walsh got shoved aside by that same moron owner so walsh also has my sympathies.

the main problem with this franchise is the owner-- he only attracts and retains people of low character.

that, and it is never melo's fault. what he said cannot be unsaid... and he has hurt the team. it is as plain as the nose on your face. the guy is just like dolan. and yet i have the faintest of sympathy for him because he doesn't realize how dreadfully stupid he is.

Walsh made a lot of mistakes and D'Antoni was one of the biggest.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
dk7th
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11/10/2013  7:18 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Tank while the Nets go for a chip...Yeah, that's happening...
Obviously James Dolan is a moron so i dont expect him to make things better. this is just me as a diehard knick fan hoping for the good of the teams future

Dolan is far from being a moron..Dolan has tripled his money last year and half ...

takes one to know one. dolan is a moron and of low character to boot. he is merely a fortunate moron because new york city has 20 million potential seat fillers from which can be culled 19,000 customers every game. by sheer numbers there is a constant supply line of morons who are eager to be entertained by the slop he puts on the floor. it is really the most cynical of situations....


I don't understand this..You are one of the biggest supporters of MDA and Donnie...Donnie gave a guy with bad knees 100 mil over 5 years..MDA ran him into the ground in half a season and now u complain about Dolan???...U were constantly talking about Donnie's vision and the .500 team and now u are pissed???

i never said i was a supporter of d'antoni. he got a raw deal-- two years of necessary failure via roster flush, with the promise of a fresh start and a light at the end of the tunnel in 2010-- only to have the rug pulled out from under him by lebron and dolan... so by default he has my sympathies.

walsh? i thought he did just fine. it is not his fault that he had to follow the edict of a moron owner who is the touchstone for a bread and circuses fanbase... and feel compelled to pick up a big name who is not a franchise level talent. a real visionary owner would have the courage to rebuild, at worst break even for a few seasons and would have allowed walsh to do his job. then walsh got shoved aside by that same moron owner so walsh also has my sympathies.

the main problem with this franchise is the owner-- he only attracts and retains people of low character.

that, and it is never melo's fault. what he said cannot be unsaid... and he has hurt the team. it is as plain as the nose on your face. the guy is just like dolan. and yet i have the faintest of sympathy for him because he doesn't realize how dreadfully stupid he is.

Walsh made a lot of mistakes and D'Antoni was one of the biggest.

i would have taken a chance on jackson but then there's the pressure of a moron owner and a moron fanbase so you have to hire a glamor name who has appeared in the cf. d'antoni is a system coach and walsh did what he could to find players to fit the system. unfortunately he acquired felton instead of ridenour, who was amare's preference.

then after half a season you trade half the squad for the ultimate non-system player to team with stoudemire-- an impossible pairing, as a few knick fans bemoaned-- and here we are.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
knickscity
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11/10/2013  7:32 PM
D'antoni was definitely the worst move any GM could make.

Then is was upstaged by signing Amare to that ridiculous uninsured contract.
CrushAlot
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11/10/2013  8:00 PM
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Tank while the Nets go for a chip...Yeah, that's happening...
Obviously James Dolan is a moron so i dont expect him to make things better. this is just me as a diehard knick fan hoping for the good of the teams future

Dolan is far from being a moron..Dolan has tripled his money last year and half ...

takes one to know one. dolan is a moron and of low character to boot. he is merely a fortunate moron because new york city has 20 million potential seat fillers from which can be culled 19,000 customers every game. by sheer numbers there is a constant supply line of morons who are eager to be entertained by the slop he puts on the floor. it is really the most cynical of situations....


I don't understand this..You are one of the biggest supporters of MDA and Donnie...Donnie gave a guy with bad knees 100 mil over 5 years..MDA ran him into the ground in half a season and now u complain about Dolan???...U were constantly talking about Donnie's vision and the .500 team and now u are pissed???

i never said i was a supporter of d'antoni. he got a raw deal-- two years of necessary failure via roster flush, with the promise of a fresh start and a light at the end of the tunnel in 2010-- only to have the rug pulled out from under him by lebron and dolan... so by default he has my sympathies.

walsh? i thought he did just fine. it is not his fault that he had to follow the edict of a moron owner who is the touchstone for a bread and circuses fanbase... and feel compelled to pick up a big name who is not a franchise level talent. a real visionary owner would have the courage to rebuild, at worst break even for a few seasons and would have allowed walsh to do his job. then walsh got shoved aside by that same moron owner so walsh also has my sympathies.

the main problem with this franchise is the owner-- he only attracts and retains people of low character.

that, and it is never melo's fault. what he said cannot be unsaid... and he has hurt the team. it is as plain as the nose on your face. the guy is just like dolan. and yet i have the faintest of sympathy for him because he doesn't realize how dreadfully stupid he is.

Walsh made a lot of mistakes and D'Antoni was one of the biggest.

i would have taken a chance on jackson but then there's the pressure of a moron owner and a moron fanbase so you have to hire a glamor name who has appeared in the cf. d'antoni is a system coach and walsh did what he could to find players to fit the system. unfortunately he acquired felton instead of ridenour, who was amare's preference.

then after half a season you trade half the squad for the ultimate non-system player to team with stoudemire-- an impossible pairing, as a few knick fans bemoaned-- and here we are.

I think MJax would have been great and I think Walsh showed that he was able to protect his coach from players, the media and the owner during D'Antoni's tenure. The two star/clear out assets to have a chance at lbj plan was simplistic, flawed and had little chance of working. Signing Amare was a face saving move. Giving him the contract that he did in light of what doctors were saying about his knees/career timeline was stupid.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
tkf
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11/10/2013  11:57 PM
StarksEwing1 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:I agree. It's sad that people who want to rebuild towards a real contender have to explain that they don't hate the Knicks but I can understand why you posted that.
Look i hate rebuilding because it takes time. Im also a met fan and we have bene rebuidng for 4-5 years. I just want the Knicks to have a good future. This organization constantly gets rid of first round picks for bloated contracts of overpayed players

you don't have to be bad for long.. look around at the rockets and pacers... you can compete while you rebuild.. but be smart, have a plan, stick to it..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/10/2013  11:58 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:You don't have to be bad to rebuild. Houston lost Yao and T-Mac but never dropped below .500.

+1, I pointed this out in a thread a while ago.. they have been consistent 40+ game winners, even some 50 win seasons. amazing..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/10/2013  11:59 PM
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:You don't have to be bad to rebuild. Houston lost Yao and T-Mac but never dropped below .500.

Or I can go thru the countless teams that didn't go the Houston route..


Right; they ignored the sabermetrics and suffered. I should have clarified, if you use the right pieces of information to make your decisions, you don't have to be bad to rebuild.

Don't u think everyone wants to ink LeBron James???...Don't u think everyone wants a guy that hits 100% of his shots???At some point reality has to set in and play the hand u are dealt...I wanted to marry Hale Berry but she is taken ...Maybe I should wait until she is free??? Reality guys...

what does lebron have to do with what bonn said? The pacers don't have lebron.. they are doing just fine..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/11/2013  12:05 AM
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
dk7th wrote:
holfresh wrote:
StarksEwing1 wrote:
holfresh wrote:Tank while the Nets go for a chip...Yeah, that's happening...
Obviously James Dolan is a moron so i dont expect him to make things better. this is just me as a diehard knick fan hoping for the good of the teams future

Dolan is far from being a moron..Dolan has tripled his money last year and half ...

takes one to know one. dolan is a moron and of low character to boot. he is merely a fortunate moron because new york city has 20 million potential seat fillers from which can be culled 19,000 customers every game. by sheer numbers there is a constant supply line of morons who are eager to be entertained by the slop he puts on the floor. it is really the most cynical of situations....


I don't understand this..You are one of the biggest supporters of MDA and Donnie...Donnie gave a guy with bad knees 100 mil over 5 years..MDA ran him into the ground in half a season and now u complain about Dolan???...U were constantly talking about Donnie's vision and the .500 team and now u are pissed???

i never said i was a supporter of d'antoni. he got a raw deal-- two years of necessary failure via roster flush, with the promise of a fresh start and a light at the end of the tunnel in 2010-- only to have the rug pulled out from under him by lebron and dolan... so by default he has my sympathies.

walsh? i thought he did just fine. it is not his fault that he had to follow the edict of a moron owner who is the touchstone for a bread and circuses fanbase... and feel compelled to pick up a big name who is not a franchise level talent. a real visionary owner would have the courage to rebuild, at worst break even for a few seasons and would have allowed walsh to do his job. then walsh got shoved aside by that same moron owner so walsh also has my sympathies.

the main problem with this franchise is the owner-- he only attracts and retains people of low character.

that, and it is never melo's fault. what he said cannot be unsaid... and he has hurt the team. it is as plain as the nose on your face. the guy is just like dolan. and yet i have the faintest of sympathy for him because he doesn't realize how dreadfully stupid he is.

+1 great post..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/11/2013  12:06 AM
knickscity wrote:D'antoni was definitely the worst move any GM could make.

Then is was upstaged by signing Amare to that ridiculous uninsured contract.

no he wasn't.. and DK pretty much detailed why amare was signed.. even with that.. it pales in comparison to the carmelo trade which IMO will go down as the worst trade in NBA, not knick. NBA history..

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
CrushAlot
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11/11/2013  12:30 AM
tkf wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:You don't have to be bad to rebuild. Houston lost Yao and T-Mac but never dropped below .500.

Or I can go thru the countless teams that didn't go the Houston route..


Right; they ignored the sabermetrics and suffered. I should have clarified, if you use the right pieces of information to make your decisions, you don't have to be bad to rebuild.

Don't u think everyone wants to ink LeBron James???...Don't u think everyone wants a guy that hits 100% of his shots???At some point reality has to set in and play the hand u are dealt...I wanted to marry Hale Berry but she is taken ...Maybe I should wait until she is free??? Reality guys...

what does lebron have to do with what bonn said? The pacers don't have lebron.. they are doing just fine..

I believe the conversation was about HOuston. Morey was all in for D12 prior to the Lakers getting him. His cap clearing moves enabled him to trade for Harden and then still have the space to sign Dwight. If OKC doesn't have to trade Harden because of the new cba the Rockets don't get Howard. Lin and Asik signings could have come back to bite Morey. Lin's deal still may but Harden/Howard fixes a lot of that.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
CrushAlot
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11/11/2013  12:33 AM
tkf wrote:
knickscity wrote:D'antoni was definitely the worst move any GM could make.

Then is was upstaged by signing Amare to that ridiculous uninsured contract.

no he wasn't.. and DK pretty much detailed why amare was signed.. even with that.. it pales in comparison to the carmelo trade which IMO will go down as the worst trade in NBA, not knick. NBA history..

Well anyone can detail whatever they want but that doesn't mean they are right. Doctors put a timeline on Amare's career post micro fracture surgery and Phoenix offered him a contract based on that. Walsh gave up a lot of assets to have the Knicks in the conversation as a destination for lbj. When they struck out he signed Amare to save face to a contract that Amare's knees could never fulfill.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
Bonn1997
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11/11/2013  5:45 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
tkf wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
holfresh wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:You don't have to be bad to rebuild. Houston lost Yao and T-Mac but never dropped below .500.

Or I can go thru the countless teams that didn't go the Houston route..


Right; they ignored the sabermetrics and suffered. I should have clarified, if you use the right pieces of information to make your decisions, you don't have to be bad to rebuild.

Don't u think everyone wants to ink LeBron James???...Don't u think everyone wants a guy that hits 100% of his shots???At some point reality has to set in and play the hand u are dealt...I wanted to marry Hale Berry but she is taken ...Maybe I should wait until she is free??? Reality guys...

what does lebron have to do with what bonn said? The pacers don't have lebron.. they are doing just fine..

I believe the conversation was about HOuston. Morey was all in for D12 prior to the Lakers getting him. His cap clearing moves enabled him to trade for Harden and then still have the space to sign Dwight. If OKC doesn't have to trade Harden because of the new cba the Rockets don't get Howard. Lin and Asik signings could have come back to bite Morey. Lin's deal still may but Harden/Howard fixes a lot of that.

His question was about Lebron
IronWillGiroud
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11/11/2013  8:12 AM
knickscity wrote:D'antoni was definitely the worst move any GM could make.

Then is was upstaged by signing Amare to that ridiculous uninsured contract.

D'antoni was a great hire at the time, I think, and MDA would have delivered us a ton of wins had we not sabotaged him with the Melo trade. The Melo trade is when they put the dagger in MDA's heart.

I think it was brave of MDA to come in and take a pile of trash and get them to play basketball.

We lost a lot of games under MDA but we played ball and he made Duhon look like an NBA player.

We were in such bad spirits back then that just playing ball was refreshing, and no one can say that we didn't play ball with MDA.

I had more fun watching MDA's losing teams than I did watching Melo's 54 wins team and all the crazy antics that went along with it.

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
misterearl
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11/11/2013  8:57 AM
What exactly IS a rebuild?
once a knick always a knick
RonRon
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11/11/2013  9:40 AM
we will never do a REAL REBUILD, not with Dolan

BUT

with the FA of 2015, we could should clear salary and trade players that can bring us any assets, and admit we built a horrible team that doesn't work
Hire a Coach that plays "THE RIGHT WAY" and actually believes in running plays

There simply is too much talent to ignore, it is 2010 all over gain but with even more talent
If Melo is willing to take less money and RECRUIT while not opting out this year, I don't mind if Dolan wants to overpay for a player that will be on a downside of his career beyond 2015

If he wants anything more than 15m, I don't think he is worth it

At his age and inabilities/lack of DEF/ lack of leadership, and lack of abilities to make players around him better
I think he is worth closer to 12m per year *like a older Monta Ellis as a volume scorer NOT AN ALL STAR/FRANCHISE player*
If not I would rather have the younger more athletic, better defender, more coachable, Rudy Gay at 8-10m per year, much less than 30m a year
Vmart
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11/11/2013  9:58 AM
The Knicks window is closed last year was it. This is a patch work team that is being put together. Anyway you look at this team you will notice its faults and they are huge. This is one off the worst roster out there. This is starting to remind me of having Spree and nothing else. Houston bumming out with his knee and Dice well damaged goods. This is a very scary time for the Knicks. Right now it's Melo and nothing else. Time to rebuild.
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