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Bargs starting isnt woking wont work and we will LOSE games if it continues
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holfresh
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11/4/2013  6:58 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/4/2013  7:18 PM
VCoug wrote:The problem is that Woodson basically has to start the season like this since Dolan has said he expects us to compete for a championship. The only way that happens is if Bargs is able to morph into a #2, no pun intended, guy next to Melo. I would expect to see Bargnani given as many chances as possible through the first 20 or so games to turn his career around before Woodson is allowed to abandon him.

I not sure about the Championship thing, but we know the team we already have..It's a second round team...The team u saw on the floor last night in the 3rd and 4th quarter will win 50 games and get to the second round...Indy, the Bulls, Miami and the Nets can beat them...If we are satisfied with that and are happy to watch those games all season then hey, great...But if we want to see if Bargs can help us take the next step, we have to give him the playing time and let him get comfortable and confident...I think we have gone beyond just trying to make the playoffs, winning 50 games and saying its an accomplishment...

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dk7th
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11/4/2013  7:05 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
djsunyc wrote:i saw the first game with a bunch of degenerates from this board...but haven't seen the last two.

here's the most important thing to take away from bargnani...no matter how he plays,

-11
-9
-11

when he's on the court the past 3 games. this has been the case for all those losing seasons in toronto and now again in new york. there are some statistical anomalies and sometimes, just some bad luck...but it seems in this case, bargs IS the bad luck.

and as predicted... the "bargnani as the scapegoat and whipping boy for what ails the knicks" commences.

meanwhile:

"i want to see what it is like to be a free agent"-- carmelo anthony
"i expect the knicks to win a title this year"-- james dolan

Interesting. Is Bargs being scapegoated by fans? Links?

"links" LOL

i hesitate to ask... but are you blind?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
CrushAlot
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11/4/2013  7:22 PM
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
djsunyc wrote:i saw the first game with a bunch of degenerates from this board...but haven't seen the last two.

here's the most important thing to take away from bargnani...no matter how he plays,

-11
-9
-11

when he's on the court the past 3 games. this has been the case for all those losing seasons in toronto and now again in new york. there are some statistical anomalies and sometimes, just some bad luck...but it seems in this case, bargs IS the bad luck.

and as predicted... the "bargnani as the scapegoat and whipping boy for what ails the knicks" commences.

meanwhile:

"i want to see what it is like to be a free agent"-- carmelo anthony
"i expect the knicks to win a title this year"-- james dolan

Interesting. Is Bargs being scapegoated by fans? Links?

"links" LOL

i hesitate to ask... but are you blind?

Scapegoating for the teams failures? Haven't seen any of that. Concern about the guys play absolutely but tomorrow is the fourth game of the season. Not ready to have a funeral for Bargs or this team yet. However if you know where there are threads/articles saying the failures of the knicks in the first three games are all related to bargs I would love to read them.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
RonRon
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11/4/2013  8:25 PM
Josh McRoberts really developed his 3pt shot this summer, making him highly efficient and skilled especially for his salary
He already showed he could be at least a rotation PF with his defense and rebounding, like a Kris Humphries
He signed for 3- 3.5m per year for 2 years

What would it have cost us?
Our mini MLE or Pablo and MWP

Now, keeping all the picks that we sent away for AB, with 1 1st rounder, 2 2nd rounders, and who knows who we might be able to trade Camby/Novak or whoever packaged for, including Amare being a possibility if we add another 1st round pick in to it....
Like many trades from the Melo trade, to deals made after because we were forced to with our cap situation, lack of flexibility, and limited time to compete for a ring
Instead of being patient and collecting assets, signing deals that could assets and be traded that Donnie Walsh would have done, we likely would have been in the mix for Cp3, Harden, and D12

I hope JR Smith returning healthy could return to his penetrating/facilitating role that he played well last season in as he focused on REBs and DEF too, it surely would allow AB to be a better fit together if AB can continue to find his shot and confidence

Bonn1997
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11/4/2013  8:46 PM
So Bargs is a 7 footer playing over 20 mpg and he's averaging 2 rebounds a game?! You'd think he'd get more rebounds than that just by accident! Tyson Chandler with the flu was a better rebounder.
IronWillGiroud
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11/4/2013  8:49 PM
Yea bargs is really...not good at all
The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
knickscity
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11/4/2013  8:55 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:So Bargs is a 7 footer playing over 20 mpg and he's averaging 2 rebounds a game?! You'd think he'd get more rebounds than that just by accident! Tyson Chandler with the flu was a better rebounder.

and hes -31 in 60 minutes.
helloharv
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11/4/2013  9:26 PM
I don't get all this Bards bashing --- we didn't get him to REBOUND for crying out loud. If you watched us lose to a good Pacer team--- it was due to lack of scoring and spacing the floor.
dk7th
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11/4/2013  9:38 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
djsunyc wrote:i saw the first game with a bunch of degenerates from this board...but haven't seen the last two.

here's the most important thing to take away from bargnani...no matter how he plays,

-11
-9
-11

when he's on the court the past 3 games. this has been the case for all those losing seasons in toronto and now again in new york. there are some statistical anomalies and sometimes, just some bad luck...but it seems in this case, bargs IS the bad luck.

and as predicted... the "bargnani as the scapegoat and whipping boy for what ails the knicks" commences.

meanwhile:

"i want to see what it is like to be a free agent"-- carmelo anthony
"i expect the knicks to win a title this year"-- james dolan

Interesting. Is Bargs being scapegoated by fans? Links?

"links" LOL

i hesitate to ask... but are you blind?

Scapegoating for the teams failures? Haven't seen any of that. Concern about the guys play absolutely but tomorrow is the fourth game of the season. Not ready to have a funeral for Bargs or this team yet. However if you know where there are threads/articles saying the failures of the knicks in the first three games are all related to bargs I would love to read them.

this roster is a flat out mess. woodson is going to drown this season and i am merely echoing what has been mentioned in some quarters.

in everyone's avoidance to hold melo's feet to the fire... and make sure it is never his fault... so that it is felt he has "earned" his max contract:

blame of bargnani comes first since he is the latecomer... in other words he's an easy target as the latest high-priced solution to the fiasco that is the melo era.

felton comes second.

stoudemire is in there lingering somewhere.

shumpert will be blamed eventually, as will chandler.

melo? he is the innocent victim here as you are sure is true.

you should try realgm and hook up with moocow and godshamgod. they are your huckleberries.

have i mentioned yet this season that it is never melo's fault?

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
djsunyc
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11/4/2013  9:53 PM    LAST EDITED: 11/4/2013  9:55 PM
i can only talk about bargs as an avid fan and long time supporter and excuse maker for him.

ultimately, the thing that is becoming more and more prevalent is that he is no longer a quality nba player that hurts more than he helps.

as for the knicks - well it's a myriad of things. it all starts with dolan. as for the roster...guys can't pass, can't make good decisions and they behave like they've accomplished great things already. i, for one, enjoy when the knicks falter b/c i'm not a knicks fan.

it's becoming a bit more apparent that iverson in his prime is better than melo b/c he was still a bit of a playmaker. the knicks have not been successful putting another denver nuggets around him...which, imho, is the only way he can function. he is not going to change into a playmaker. the team is all about melo trying to score 50 every night and that is what woodson has incorporated and encouraged.

tkf
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11/4/2013  11:27 PM
RonRon wrote:We gave up too much in the deal for Melo

We took on way too much salary, cap space/flexability, solid role players, draft picks, and that is why we are unable to build around Melo with the quality players needed

Look at what Harden and CP3 were acquired for, they didn't take on 40-60m in salaries and poor contracts that hinders their ability to still build a team around them with cap space alone
Instead we gave up the cap space, multiple draft picks, and players that had much higher value than what they were traded for

We overpayed for a want and not a need, that is why we have had to continue to overpay in trades for flawed players and vet min like contractsh

To spit with Melo, we need many quality players
We need a SF/PF with guard skills, ability to score inside and out, good speed snd athletisicm rebound, and the ability to defend 2-3 positions

A PG that can demand the trust and respect of Melo that can be a lockdown defender, play on and off the ball, hit a wide open 3pter, and penetrate and facilitate at a high efficient rate
Someone like CP3, at least a Jrue Holiday

A young Shawn Marion would be ideal, had we kept Wilson Chandler or Gallo, we would still have a chance to build a team with the right players to implement a philosophy that would work
Others like Battum, Parsons


2 PF/C, one that can play great team DEF with supreme mobility, athleticism, length, can score 1v1 down low and hit a 17 footer effectively


Another stretch 4/5 that can also defend and rebound at a efficient rate...


However all these type of players are rare skill sets that cost more than the average player salary
With JR, Iman, and Hardaway JR, we have 3 players that play the same position
We likely would need to trade one of these players for a SF/PF or a upgrade at PG

On top of all this we still have to wait till 2015 to retool, without overpaying for talent, especially for Melo
But getting some of the pieces now would allow us to fill in the holes in order to build a team, with the players needed to build a philosophy that would actually work vs playoff caliber teams

As of right now, we are a 3pt shooting team with many holes as a team

you nailed this spot on!!!!!

people often miss the point, they keep saying we didn't give up stars in gallo and chandler, but we didn't get one back and on top of that, we still haven't replaced the calibre of talent those guys were, and honestly they were somewhat unique talents..

guys like gallo, chandler, Parsons, marion are rare skilled talents with size and those guys cost more than the average salary, what we have found is that they are harder to replace than most expected...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/4/2013  11:29 PM
RonRon wrote:Josh McRoberts really developed his 3pt shot this summer, making him highly efficient and skilled especially for his salary
He already showed he could be at least a rotation PF with his defense and rebounding, like a Kris Humphries
He signed for 3- 3.5m per year for 2 years

What would it have cost us?
Our mini MLE or Pablo and MWP

Now, keeping all the picks that we sent away for AB, with 1 1st rounder, 2 2nd rounders, and who knows who we might be able to trade Camby/Novak or whoever packaged for, including Amare being a possibility if we add another 1st round pick in to it....
Like many trades from the Melo trade, to deals made after because we were forced to with our cap situation, lack of flexibility, and limited time to compete for a ring
Instead of being patient and collecting assets, signing deals that could assets and be traded that Donnie Walsh would have done, we likely would have been in the mix for Cp3, Harden, and D12

I hope JR Smith returning healthy could return to his penetrating/facilitating role that he played well last season in as he focused on REBs and DEF too, it surely would allow AB to be a better fit together if AB can continue to find his shot and confidence

and it would have been well worth it...

Instead of being patient and collecting assets, signing deals that could assets and be traded that Donnie Walsh would have done, we likely would have been in the mix for Cp3, Harden, and D12

Bingo!

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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11/5/2013  12:06 AM
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
dk7th wrote:
djsunyc wrote:i saw the first game with a bunch of degenerates from this board...but haven't seen the last two.

here's the most important thing to take away from bargnani...no matter how he plays,

-11
-9
-11

when he's on the court the past 3 games. this has been the case for all those losing seasons in toronto and now again in new york. there are some statistical anomalies and sometimes, just some bad luck...but it seems in this case, bargs IS the bad luck.

and as predicted... the "bargnani as the scapegoat and whipping boy for what ails the knicks" commences.

meanwhile:

"i want to see what it is like to be a free agent"-- carmelo anthony
"i expect the knicks to win a title this year"-- james dolan

Interesting. Is Bargs being scapegoated by fans? Links?

"links" LOL

i hesitate to ask... but are you blind?

Scapegoating for the teams failures? Haven't seen any of that. Concern about the guys play absolutely but tomorrow is the fourth game of the season. Not ready to have a funeral for Bargs or this team yet. However if you know where there are threads/articles saying the failures of the knicks in the first three games are all related to bargs I would love to read them.

this roster is a flat out mess. woodson is going to drown this season and i am merely echoing what has been mentioned in some quarters.

in everyone's avoidance to hold melo's feet to the fire... and make sure it is never his fault... so that it is felt he has "earned" his max contract:

blame of bargnani comes first since he is the latecomer... in other words he's an easy target as the latest high-priced solution to the fiasco that is the melo era.

felton comes second.

stoudemire is in there lingering somewhere.

shumpert will be blamed eventually, as will chandler.

melo? he is the innocent victim here as you are sure is true.

you should try realgm and hook up with moocow and godshamgod. they are your huckleberries.

have i mentioned yet this season that it is never melo's fault?

ROFL!!!!!! that was classic bro...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
newyorknewyork
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11/5/2013  6:15 AM
If Melo and Bargs are going to play together then I would like to see a 2 man game worked between them.

Melo's shot has been off and has made some poor decisions with the ball, though he has been looking to pass the ball. Yet at the same time game 1 he had a double double. Game 2 he has 6rebs 6ast, 6stls, 2blks, and game 3 he had 17 rebounds +8 when on the court.

https://vote.nba.com/en Vote for your Knicks.
smackeddog
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11/5/2013  11:06 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:So Bargs is a 7 footer playing over 20 mpg and he's averaging 2 rebounds a game?! You'd think he'd get more rebounds than that just by accident! Tyson Chandler with the flu was a better rebounder.

I'm desperately hoping Bargs can turn things around- I don't like the fact that you and your stats were completely correct about him!

tkf
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11/5/2013  11:13 AM
helloharv wrote:I don't get all this Bards bashing --- we didn't get him to REBOUND for crying out loud. If you watched us lose to a good Pacer team--- it was due to lack of scoring and spacing the floor.

and has bargs even done that for us effectively? NO...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
jrodmc
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11/5/2013  11:30 AM
newyorknewyork wrote:If Melo and Bargs are going to play together then I would like to see a 2 man game worked between them.

Melo's shot has been off and has made some poor decisions with the ball, though he has been looking to pass the ball. Yet at the same time game 1 he had a double double. Game 2 he has 6rebs 6ast, 6stls, 2blks, and game 3 he had 17 rebounds +8 when on the court.

Doesn't matter. Barg's failure (if it goes beyond 3 games) will ultimately be laid at the feet of our very own Resident Evil #1. Watch, as it unfolds...

At least we never read any posts about losing the right way...

nixluva
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11/5/2013  3:37 PM
Bargnani is not the most important problem with the Knicks!!! This tripe that people keep pointing to is just the most recent scapegoating on this forum. All those Turnovers and poor execution aren't because of Bargnani and this crap needs to stop. 3 games in and before we even played the 3rd game people were already pointing at the new guy. This team has way too many returning players from last year to blame one guy for the teams troubles. It's never that simple. His role out there is very basic so it's the execution with the other players like Felton and Melo that are more important. AB is just there as an outlet to catch defenders who aren't paying any attention to him. He doesn't take enough shots to be the main culprit nor play huge minutes so far.

Now look at these numbers from our top scorers and tell me where the problem is so far:

PLAYER	FGM	FGA	FG%	3PM	3PA	3P%	FTM	FTA	FT%	2PM	2PA	2P%	PPS	AFG%
Carmelo 7.7 20.3 .377 1.3 5.0 .267 4.3 5.3 0.81 6.4 15.3 .413 1.033 0.41
Felton, 5.0 12.7 .395 0.3 2.3 .143 2.7 3.0 0.89 4.7 10.4 .452 1.026 0.41
Iman 4.0 9.0 .444 1.3 3.7 .364 2.3 2.3 1.00 2.7 5.3 .500 1.296 0.52
Metta 4.0 9.3 .429 1.3 3.0 .444 0.3 0.7 0.50 2.7 6.3 .421 1.036 0.50
Andrea 4.3 8.7 .500 1.0 3.0 .333 0.0 0.0 0.00 3.3 5.7 .588 1.115 0.56
Tyson 3.7 6.3 .579 0.0 0.0 .000 1.7 2.0 0.83 3.7 6.3 .579 1.421 0.58
knickscity
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11/5/2013  4:02 PM
nixluva wrote:Bargnani is not the most important problem with the Knicks!!! This tripe that people keep pointing to is just the most recent scapegoating on this forum. All those Turnovers and poor execution aren't because of Bargnani and this crap needs to stop. 3 games in and before we even played the 3rd game people were already pointing at the new guy. This team has way too many returning players from last year to blame one guy for the teams troubles. It's never that simple. His role out there is very basic so it's the execution with the other players like Felton and Melo that are more important. AB is just there as an outlet to catch defenders who aren't paying any attention to him. He doesn't take enough shots to be the main culprit nor play huge minutes so far.

Now look at these numbers from our top scorers and tell me where the problem is so far:

PLAYER	FGM	FGA	FG%	3PM	3PA	3P%	FTM	FTA	FT%	2PM	2PA	2P%	PPS	AFG%
Carmelo 7.7 20.3 .377 1.3 5.0 .267 4.3 5.3 0.81 6.4 15.3 .413 1.033 0.41
Felton, 5.0 12.7 .395 0.3 2.3 .143 2.7 3.0 0.89 4.7 10.4 .452 1.026 0.41
Iman 4.0 9.0 .444 1.3 3.7 .364 2.3 2.3 1.00 2.7 5.3 .500 1.296 0.52
Metta 4.0 9.3 .429 1.3 3.0 .444 0.3 0.7 0.50 2.7 6.3 .421 1.036 0.50
Andrea 4.3 8.7 .500 1.0 3.0 .333 0.0 0.0 0.00 3.3 5.7 .588 1.115 0.56
Tyson 3.7 6.3 .579 0.0 0.0 .000 1.7 2.0 0.83 3.7 6.3 .579 1.421 0.58

No one else on the team is -31.

You really are clueless, Bargnani is a liability on the floor, but I've already stated he isnt to be blamed for all of it, but he is a major chunk.

Take him out of the starting lineup and I guarantee you the team will play better, ironically the only game we've won is the one he DIDNT START.

You mention turnovers and Bargnani is averaging 3 in a mere 20 minutes, and he isnt making plays...all he does is shoot.

4 made buckets on average against 3 turnovers and zero assists...his per 36 numbers are even worse, please dont increase his minutes.

Bargnani's job is to help the team win...he isnt doing that.

knickscity
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11/5/2013  4:04 PM
newyorknewyork wrote:If Melo and Bargs are going to play together then I would like to see a 2 man game worked between them.

Melo's shot has been off and has made some poor decisions with the ball, though he has been looking to pass the ball. Yet at the same time game 1 he had a double double. Game 2 he has 6rebs 6ast, 6stls, 2blks, and game 3 he had 17 rebounds +8 when on the court.


He'll get his shot back I'm sure, hopefully he'll keep doing those things as well as score.
Bargs starting isnt woking wont work and we will LOSE games if it continues

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