Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

dk7th wrote:see how tweeners can mess things up?

melo is not at syracuse anymore but he plays as though he is:

the nba reality is that defensively he is too small to guard fours and too slow to guard threes.

offensively he may be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- small forwards. similarly he will be able to take advantage of some-- but not all-- fours.

so while he is at a defensive disadvantage almost all the time, he needs to make up for it somehow offensively... and he hasn't shown the ability to do that at nearly a proficient enough level. 46%FG and 55-56%TS just isn't good enough.

so the best things he and woodson can collaborate on are...

1) raising his TS% to 58%TS and above, which will go a long way. this should be their focus. limit the number of shots to 17-18 per game-- no more heat check threes!-- and get to the line 10 times a game by intentionally drawing fouls-- shelve the bully ball if you can't finish and get them in foul trouble. this is the big secret to playoff attrition... getting your defenders in foul trouble early.

2) reduce usage to 28% and raise your assist rate to somewhere around 17% for a ratio of around 1.70:1 which is acceptable. never mind raw assists. if he is still at a sickly 2.5 per game, mainly because he is incapable of passing off of his drives to the basket, that's okay... but he has got to contribute more to offensive cohesion by moving the ball when driving to the basket is not an option.

I think you're one of the only people to describe Melo as a tweener! He has flaws, but that ain't one of them!

Tweener means that you're between 2 positions rather than fitting one very well (hence the name). It seems pretty accurate here.

There's a difference between a tweener and a hybrid. Tweener is a weakness where a player can't fit either position well. Melo plays both the 3 and 4 at a high level, an allstar level, that's a hybrid.

No, Melo is just a volume scoring specialist at either position.

I don't see how you can say no to that when he is an all star

I never denied that he was very popular. High PPG will do that.

So if he somehow didn't get voted in by the fans you don't think the coaches would vote him in?

High PPG makes you popular with coaches and GMs too. It's the main reason GMs are clueless about how much players are worth and there's almost no correlation between team salary and winning. I suspect this is gradually changing but still mostly the case.

So every GM and coach in the league is wrong by wanting Melo on their team as a starting forward? Make no mistake about it, every GM and coach in the league would want Melo and would pay either max or a very high salary closer to max than not. Just because some people aren't fans of his doesn't make every GM and coach who is in the league clueless about his value.

I don't even know where to begin:
A) You're citing fictional data about how coaches would use Melo
B) You're refuting a claim I never made (that Melo is not even good enough to be on an NBA team's starting lineup)
C) You're acknowledging something I already said. Melo is great at the one thing that gets you paid - high PPG. So of course, I would readily grant he'd get paid as an FA.
D) Ugh nevermind.

If I misspoke on any of your points I apologize. It just reads like every GM in the league who would pay Melo big money and values him highly are clueless. We all have our theories about players being overrated and underrated, but the general consensus around the basketball world is typically correct about a players value.

Labeling Melo a tweeter is just another means to minimalize and trivialize the diverse skill set he bings to the court.

Watch Anthony in person and follow how much respect he commands from the opponent on both ends. If he is not doubled, he is going strong. Too big for threes and too quick for most fours.

If that is what a tweeter does, sign me up.

knickscity wrote:

misterearl wrote:Stop the madness dk7th

Labeling Melo a tweeter is just another means to minimalize and trivialize the diverse skill set he bings to the court.

Watch Anthony in person and follow how much respect he commands from the opponent on both ends. If he is not doubled, he is going strong. Too big for threes and too quick for most fours.

If that is what a tweeter does, sign me up.

Explain how come the teams we'll have to beat in the playoffs all guard him one on one.

BK has Garnett

Indy Paul George

Miami LeBron

Knicks were3-1 against the heat and celtics last year. I believe they split with the pacers.

misterearl wrote:Stop the madness dk7th

Labeling Melo a tweeter is just another means to minimalize and trivialize the diverse skill set he bings to the court.

Watch Anthony in person and follow how much respect he commands from the opponent on both ends. If he is not doubled, he is going strong. Too big for threes and too quick for most fours.

If that is what a tweeter does, sign me up.

cleopatra is the queen of denial but you are right there with her.

he is too small to guard 4s but you say he is too quick to be guarded by "most" 4s. four words: david west kevin garnett
he is too slow to guard most 3s and you say he is too big for 3s. six words: lebron james paul george luol deng

i don't live in your bizzaro world.

dk7th wrote:

misterearl wrote:Stop the madness dk7th

Labeling Melo a tweeter is just another means to minimalize and trivialize the diverse skill set he bings to the court.

Watch Anthony in person and follow how much respect he commands from the opponent on both ends. If he is not doubled, he is going strong. Too big for threes and too quick for most fours.

If that is what a tweeter does, sign me up.

cleopatra is the queen of denial but you are right there with her.

he is too small to guard 4s but you say he is too quick to be guarded by "most" 4s. four words: david west kevin garnett
he is too slow to guard most 3s and you say he is too big for 3s. six words: lebron james paul george luol deng

i don't live in your bizzaro world.

Since when has he been too slow to guard SFs? You're tripping balls, man!

dk7th wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

dk7th wrote:

misterearl wrote:Stop the madness dk7th

Labeling Melo a tweeter is just another means to minimalize and trivialize the diverse skill set he bings to the court.

Watch Anthony in person and follow how much respect he commands from the opponent on both ends. If he is not doubled, he is going strong. Too big for threes and too quick for most fours.

If that is what a tweeter does, sign me up.

cleopatra is the queen of denial but you are right there with her.

he is too small to guard 4s but you say he is too quick to be guarded by "most" 4s. four words: david west kevin garnett
he is too slow to guard most 3s and you say he is too big for 3s. six words: lebron james paul george luol deng

i don't live in your bizzaro world.

Since when has he been too slow to guard SFs? You're tripping balls, man!

so i guess that is how he has gotten his reputation for being a great defender all these years. how did i miss that?

It's nothing to do with speed, it's his commitment to it. When he tries he's pretty good at defending SFs. unfortunately he tends to focus most of his energy on scoring. It's frustrating.

dk7th wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:So I guess Melo rebound rate as a small forward is lower than other sfs? His assist rate as an SF must be lower too as well as all the other things.

So how about the statisticians do a little work and post the numbers compared to SFs and PFs. To back up their claims to put the discussion to semi-rest.

bonn likely has those stats. i can tell you right now that his assist rate is nothing to brag about.

Melo is a good rebounder as a small forward, usually he was near the top in that.

But as a 4, he was obviously not as good....he hadnt posted 6 boards in the playoffs since he was a kid, but that could have been injury related.

But 6 rebounds isnt cutting it for a power forward, thats a liability.

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:So I guess Melo rebound rate as a small forward is lower than other sfs? His assist rate as an SF must be lower too as well as all the other things.

So how about the statisticians do a little work and post the numbers compared to SFs and PFs. To back up their claims to put the discussion to semi-rest.

bonn likely has those stats. i can tell you right now that his assist rate is nothing to brag about.

Melo is a good rebounder as a small forward, usually he was near the top in that.

But as a 4, he was obviously not as good....he hadnt posted 6 boards in the playoffs since he was a kid, but that could have been injury related.

But 6 rebounds isnt cutting it for a power forward, thats a liability.

I'm sorry but what do you mean? He has not posted 6 boards in the playoffs as a 4 or he hasn't posted below 6 boards since he was a kid. I can go look it up but I just wanted clarification.

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:So I guess Melo rebound rate as a small forward is lower than other sfs? His assist rate as an SF must be lower too as well as all the other things.

So how about the statisticians do a little work and post the numbers compared to SFs and PFs. To back up their claims to put the discussion to semi-rest.

bonn likely has those stats. i can tell you right now that his assist rate is nothing to brag about.

Melo is a good rebounder as a small forward, usually he was near the top in that.

But as a 4, he was obviously not as good....he hadnt posted 6 boards in the playoffs since he was a kid, but that could have been injury related.

But 6 rebounds isnt cutting it for a power forward, thats a liability.

I'm sorry but what do you mean? He has not posted 6 boards in the playoffs as a 4 or he hasn't posted below 6 boards since he was a kid. I can go look it up but I just wanted clarification.

he's only played the 4 in the playoff once, so i'm not talking about that....I'm talking 6 total.

Doing a quick look I see he posted 7 or more boards 7 times last year, had just 6 rebs twice and under 6 rebs in 3 games.

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:So I guess Melo rebound rate as a small forward is lower than other sfs? His assist rate as an SF must be lower too as well as all the other things.

So how about the statisticians do a little work and post the numbers compared to SFs and PFs. To back up their claims to put the discussion to semi-rest.

bonn likely has those stats. i can tell you right now that his assist rate is nothing to brag about.

Melo is a good rebounder as a small forward, usually he was near the top in that.

But as a 4, he was obviously not as good....he hadnt posted 6 boards in the playoffs since he was a kid, but that could have been injury related.

But 6 rebounds isnt cutting it for a power forward, thats a liability.

I'm sorry but what do you mean? He has not posted 6 boards in the playoffs as a 4 or he hasn't posted below 6 boards since he was a kid. I can go look it up but I just wanted clarification.

he's only played the 4 in the playoff once, so i'm not talking about that....I'm talking 6 total.

Doing a quick look I see he posted 7 or more boards 7 times last year, had just 6 rebs twice and under 6 rebs in 3 games.