Dagger wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:HE is the one people should be focusing and hating on if anyone. You want to point the finger at someone (haters) then point at the 100million dollar statuette.

Yeah! F*ck you Amare! Coming here to play when no other free agent wanted anything to do with the Knicks. I know you faked the bad knees the whole time so you can swindle poor lil Jimmy Dolan out of his millions!! You Suge Knight/Vanilla Ice'd poor Jimmy into giving you an uninsurable contract!

Lets get the torches and pitchforks and meet at Purchase!!!

I'm so tired of this line being used to defend Amar'e. He followed the money! He wasn't doing the Knicks any favors! He wanted M-O-N-E-Y. Say it with me, MONEY! Amare couldn't give a **** about the Knicks before he signed that contract, he saw the 100 mil, his eyes lit up, so he put on that blue and orange cap and rolled with the team dumb enough to sign him. "The Knicks are back" more like "My knees are whack". How do people buy such BS? Amare constantly throws old coaches and mentors under the bus, repeatedly stating that he "never learned defense". Such an asinine claim is beyond belief, and frankly makes everyone that was ever responsible for his basketball development look awful. Yet people think he's a high character guy cause he reads his kids book in times square...TOO FUNNY. Amare is the best at 2 things 1) Hurting himself 2) Focusing on literally everything under the sun besides the Knicks yet still capturing the blind loyalty of misguided fans

Were you saying this during the first half of 2010 season when Stat was lighting up the league for us? Even the seeing and thoughtfully guided thought it was a good signing then. Especially in the wake of the "decision".

Just imagine, if Stat had gone elsewhere, we could have been stuck with signing Joe Johnson for the max.

jrodmc wrote:

Dagger wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:HE is the one people should be focusing and hating on if anyone. You want to point the finger at someone (haters) then point at the 100million dollar statuette.

Yeah! F*ck you Amare! Coming here to play when no other free agent wanted anything to do with the Knicks. I know you faked the bad knees the whole time so you can swindle poor lil Jimmy Dolan out of his millions!! You Suge Knight/Vanilla Ice'd poor Jimmy into giving you an uninsurable contract!

Lets get the torches and pitchforks and meet at Purchase!!!

I'm so tired of this line being used to defend Amar'e. He followed the money! He wasn't doing the Knicks any favors! He wanted M-O-N-E-Y. Say it with me, MONEY! Amare couldn't give a **** about the Knicks before he signed that contract, he saw the 100 mil, his eyes lit up, so he put on that blue and orange cap and rolled with the team dumb enough to sign him. "The Knicks are back" more like "My knees are whack". How do people buy such BS? Amare constantly throws old coaches and mentors under the bus, repeatedly stating that he "never learned defense". Such an asinine claim is beyond belief, and frankly makes everyone that was ever responsible for his basketball development look awful. Yet people think he's a high character guy cause he reads his kids book in times square...TOO FUNNY. Amare is the best at 2 things 1) Hurting himself 2) Focusing on literally everything under the sun besides the Knicks yet still capturing the blind loyalty of misguided fans

Were you saying this during the first half of 2010 season when Stat was lighting up the league for us? Even the seeing and thoughtfully guided thought it was a good signing then. Especially in the wake of the "decision".

Just imagine, if Stat had gone elsewhere, we could have been stuck with signing Joe Johnson for the max.

Joe at least plays. Not up to his contract mind you, but he had been productive.

I know usually players like to brag on that secret German knee shyt they do, but Amare been kind of quiet for a while and maybe he done gone to see Katarina Witt's/Boris Becker's/Dirk's secret lab and got those injections.

For all we know, and we don't, his condition might not be the same as Kobe.

What we all miss is Kobes knees felt so good, they selfishly destroyed his achilles tendon. The Knee bone connected to the calf bone, the calf bone connected to the achilles tendon bone.....you get the picture.

This is Andrea's team now bytches!!!!!!! Melo is riding shotgun now!

Forget the money and spilled milk, this is Amare just one year from us being able to "use him as an expiring contract"!! I don't know what that means anymore, its like a bad card trick, or that confusing the movie ticket clerk into giving you more money back when you play with her head, you know, give her a ten and she gives you back 20? I think this "expiring" mind trick was insstalled by the league into Isiah a'la some manchurian candidate session where Stern calls Isiah and he accepts bad trades to clear salary cap for other teams. Playa2 got this all down!

Vmart wrote:Amare needs to take a lesson out of Zack Randolph's book. Don't try and jump out of the gym. Shoot jumpers no Hakeem shake or spin his knees are much to fragile to be torqued in that manner. Get back to that Mid range game which was so good for the Knicks in the first season.

Unfortunately his jump shot has been mia the last season.

DurzoBlint wrote:

azamatbagatov wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:HE is the one people should be focusing and hating on if anyone. You want to point the finger at someone (haters) then point at the 100million dollar statuette.

Yeah! F*ck you Amare! Coming here to play when no other free agent wanted anything to do with the Knicks. I know you faked the bad knees the whole time so you can swindle poor lil Jimmy Dolan out of his millions!! You Suge Knight/Vanilla Ice'd poor Jimmy into giving you an uninsurable contract!

Lets get the torches and pitchforks and meet at Purchase!!!

How can you know that??? Wasn't Amare singed on day 1 of the free agency in hopes of luring Lebron. If so, we have no idea of any of the others that year or the next would have come. Your making an assumption without taking this into account.

How do you know that? How do you know it wasn't Walsh reading the tea leaves seeing that Lebron and Bosh were signed sealed and delivered to Miami and not wanting to be stuck without a chair when the music stopped?

raven wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

IronWillGiroud wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:HE is the one people should be focusing and hating on if anyone. You want to point the finger at someone (haters) then point at the 100million dollar statuette.

can't hate amar'e,

he didn't hold a gun to anyone's head and demand a max deal,

that's all on our genius in the big chair.

i don't want to say that i called this, that's not my nature, but i called it.

but he is the BIGGEST reason we aren't better than we are. Melo would likely be more efficient if we had our OTHER ALLSTAR on the floor to take some of the pressure off. That's just common sense and basketball 101.

he's not though!

no other team was willing to give him the guaranteed years we did,

the league knew, teams knew, what was in store,

fans knew what would happen after a few years,

it's not like we didn't know amar'e would crumble like a cookie, the writing was on the wall,

he served his function, he was a bridge to bring melo superstar, just like melo will serve as a bridge to bring a second superstar,

hopefully melo and the next superstar will bring us the title.

It'S not like we had an amnesty that we used on a player we traded for a few months earlier.
Nooo, it's not.

This X 1,000,000

If you guys want to be mad and point the finger at someone, point it at the moron GM who was fully aware that he had a ticking time-bomb in Amare's knees and an uninsurable contract but decided to piss away our amnesty clause

Stoudemire said during an interview with "SI Now" Tuesday that he's been working out twice a day and is "trying to preserve strength in the knees" in his latest attempt to prove he can return to form after surgery and sustain it.

"Sometimes you got to try to get over the hump and see if you can get healthy enough to play again," Stoudemire said in the interview. "That's the goal for myself."

http://www.newsday.com/sports/basketball/knicks/amar-e-stoudemire-s-biggest-goal-this-season-stay-healthy-1.6134179

So the goal is getting healthy enough to see if he can even play again.

Now were listening to Felton like he is the GM, really.. how about we just wait and see what happens..Giving a guy 20 mill who can't play isn't that much difference then a guy who can play but can't take his team to the next level..

Nalod wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Nalod wrote:Blame the GM who had so much clout, the next year he was let go.

Blame the GM that had so much clout, when he disagreed with Dolan about how much to pay for Melo, he got let go the next year.

But, That very GM has the authority to outbid everyone with a longer term deal than PHX was willing to give, and one uninsured, because that what that GM was known for?

Really? Donnie built some nice teams in small market Indy. Thats his formula. Like many not named Celtics or Lakers, they did not win a chip but were competitive for a long time.

Starphuching was not in his wheelhouse.

Amnesty:

Not to many teams other than Prokhorovs nets would amnesty Billups at 14mm and sign FluTyson for another 14mm in the same year. Thats one player at a cost of 28mm!!!!! Thats about a third of most teams cap!!!!

So that GM to blame has all the clout to make these decisions, but in fact was Sterns patsy to oversea a madman ruining his team.

Hindsight: Y'all are freaking genious after the fact.

Read between the lines and think about the pattern of this franchise and how it approaches roster additions. Then look at Walsh's career and see if it matches. It don't.

Nobody is saying Walsh is without his blunders, in fact, most long term successful exec's in the league have many of them. You have a 30 plus year career the resume will be littered with them.

We gonna yell at Melo again for not going free agent again? Blame Layden for Ewing? Blame everyone for everything?

Or just understand Dolan runs the knicks in a way thats not condusive to winning championships.

Walsh was let go for continuity. Dolan wanted him to agree to 3more years while Walsh would only agree to 1. Come on Nalod, your better than that :)

Walsh spoke about this after he was released and he always came across as a strait shooter with the media. Unless now you think he's a liar?

Dolan offered him much lower money which is a nice way to say "no thanks". Walsh could have walked away from a three year deal, nobody makes anyone work.

Bottom line: It was not a good fit. Donnie was not in good health for much of his tenure and maybe dolan wanted more. Donnie wanted to hire Mullin to be his successor and Dolan did not want to go that route.

There are enough signs to say "it was not working".

My point, the one constant over the years is Dolan and big money decisions ulitmatly belong to the owner. Thus, I reason that Donnies juice card don't have enough pulp to sign 100m contacts.

woah, this is the 1st time I ever heard that. If so, damn but, then again, I wasn't sold on Walsh anyway. Still feel that he did more harm than good.

dk7th wrote:timeline:

amare was signed on july 5th 2010
lebron james made his announcement on july 8th 2010

cause and effect:

the only reason amare was signed was because the knicks HAD TO have one big name on the team with the hope of attracting lebron james. his max deal can be attributed to the "lebron effect." there would have been no other circumstances under which walsh would have signed stoudemire... other than pressure from an impatient owner and fanbase that the knicks acquire some big name, any big name-- after enduring two seasons of roster flush.

so for those of you who love to pile crap on his and walsh's head, just remember that it was all done in pursuit of lebron james.

once it was discovered that lebron had other plans all along, what do the knicks end up doing?

he could have (as other GMs have done) reached out to LeBron and Asked him who he would like to play with. Makes more sense than just signing a big name in hopes that it would lure him. The moment I heard we signed Amare I was like G.. Damn it. Knowing that Phoenix's medical staff had already project another surgery in 2years scared the crap out of me. He wowed me in year one but, I always knew it was a bad signing.

Nalod wrote:Blame the GM who had so much clout, the next year he was let go.

Blame the GM that had so much clout, when he disagreed with Dolan about how much to pay for Melo, he got let go the next year.

But, That very GM has the authority to outbid everyone with a longer term deal than PHX was willing to give, and one uninsured, because that what that GM was known for?

Really? Donnie built some nice teams in small market Indy. Thats his formula. Like many not named Celtics or Lakers, they did not win a chip but were competitive for a long time.

Starphuching was not in his wheelhouse.

Amnesty:

Not to many teams other than Prokhorovs nets would amnesty Billups at 14mm and sign FluTyson for another 14mm in the same year. Thats one player at a cost of 28mm!!!!! Thats about a third of most teams cap!!!!

So that GM to blame has all the clout to make these decisions, but in fact was Sterns patsy to oversea a madman ruining his team.

Hindsight: Y'all are freaking genious after the fact.

Read between the lines and think about the pattern of this franchise and how it approaches roster additions. Then look at Walsh's career and see if it matches. It don't.

Nobody is saying Walsh is without his blunders, in fact, most long term successful exec's in the league have many of them. You have a 30 plus year career the resume will be littered with them.

We gonna yell at Melo again for not going free agent again? Blame Layden for Ewing? Blame everyone for everything?

Or just understand Dolan runs the knicks in a way thats not condusive to winning championships.

Ok, this was written yesterday and while Playa might accuse me of knowing things before they are reported, I fully disvow any insider information.

So you basically fire the guy who bascially constructed the team that finished in first place and was voted 3rd as Exec of the year.

In MSG, you don't blame or commend anyone becuase it don't matter, Dolan calls the shots, cuz he writes the checks. Strong personality types like Donnie don't last long when you have a meddling fool as you boss.

Just common sense.

Grunfeld and Grunwald just not "Grun" enough to cut it in Dolans pea brain!!!

DurzoBlint wrote:

Nalod wrote:

Nalod wrote:Blame the GM who had so much clout, the next year he was let go.

Blame the GM that had so much clout, when he disagreed with Dolan about how much to pay for Melo, he got let go the next year.

But, That very GM has the authority to outbid everyone with a longer term deal than PHX was willing to give, and one uninsured, because that what that GM was known for?

Really? Donnie built some nice teams in small market Indy. Thats his formula. Like many not named Celtics or Lakers, they did not win a chip but were competitive for a long time.

Starphuching was not in his wheelhouse.

Amnesty:

Not to many teams other than Prokhorovs nets would amnesty Billups at 14mm and sign FluTyson for another 14mm in the same year. Thats one player at a cost of 28mm!!!!! Thats about a third of most teams cap!!!!

So that GM to blame has all the clout to make these decisions, but in fact was Sterns patsy to oversea a madman ruining his team.

Hindsight: Y'all are freaking genious after the fact.

Read between the lines and think about the pattern of this franchise and how it approaches roster additions. Then look at Walsh's career and see if it matches. It don't.

Nobody is saying Walsh is without his blunders, in fact, most long term successful exec's in the league have many of them. You have a 30 plus year career the resume will be littered with them.

We gonna yell at Melo again for not going free agent again? Blame Layden for Ewing? Blame everyone for everything?

Or just understand Dolan runs the knicks in a way thats not condusive to winning championships.

Ok, this was written yesterday and while Playa might accuse me of knowing things before they are reported, I fully disvow any insider information.

So you basically fire the guy who bascially constructed the team that finished in first place and was voted 3rd as Exec of the year.

In MSG, you don't blame or commend anyone becuase it don't matter, Dolan calls the shots, cuz he writes the checks. Strong personality types like Donnie don't last long when you have a meddling fool as you boss.

Just common sense.

Grunfeld and Grunwald just not "Grun" enough to cut it in Dolans pea brain!!!

You all know that I have defended Dolan here but, there were things I never heard that have been brought to light for me here on this forum. I never knew that he low balled Walsh with less money to come back. Found out that he was even more involved in the Melo trade than I had ever heard. There are other examples I could list. Maybe it's because I'm not living in New York anymore and getting Knicks info outside of the tristate area is sparse.

I'm not a closed minded person and given what I have learned here from guys more knowledgeable, I kinda feel like a fool.

as we moved from the checketts era and into the Dolan era its not me to just "lay blame" but to understand the decisons and the time line. The internet allows us to do that. Because of this "understanding", its easier for me to not get emotionally vested in this team as the effort is not honest to win, but to succeed as a business. You can succeed without championships with that objective if your the owner. Its why I dont' "Blame":

Tapscott
Grunwald
Grunfeld
Donnie
and Layden.

I blame Isiah because he was really manipulating Dolan but Dolan writes the checks and makes the final decisions. The only thing about the Isiah Era was it was very ambitious!!!! 117mm payroll in 2006 was epic!

I dont' blame larry brown because of the money they offered him. I blame Isiah/Dolan for starphuching that one real bad!

In the end, its organizational dysfunction that is to blame. Whose fault is that?