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JR Who? Paul Pierce and the unfortunate onset of Alzheimers...
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IronWillGiroud
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9/21/2013  9:31 PM
they moved pierce BECAUSE he still has gas left in the tank,

instead of waiting until he's washed up.

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
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Bonn1997
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9/21/2013  9:50 PM    LAST EDITED: 9/21/2013  9:53 PM
Papabear wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Pierce is a future hall-of-famer and JR so far looks like someone no one will remember after he retires. It's hard to side with JR here.

Papabear Says

See Bonn1997 no one will also remember whether you were a Knicks fan or not.No one will care.


And I wouldn't take offense if someone said Bonn who?

Papabear Says

I like that Bonn1997 you sometimes tend to surprise me. You have a little love for Melo Don't you. How about JR or what must JR do for you to show him some Love?

The biggest thing would be being a much more efficient scorer. For that to happen, he'd have to fall out of love with contested off balance jump shots.
CrushAlot
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9/21/2013  11:12 PM
Bonn1997 wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Pierce is a future hall-of-famer and JR so far looks like someone no one will remember after he retires. It's hard to side with JR here.

Papabear Says

See Bonn1997 no one will also remember whether you were a Knicks fan or not.No one will care.


And I wouldn't take offense if someone said Bonn who?

Papabear Says

I like that Bonn1997 you sometimes tend to surprise me. You have a little love for Melo Don't you. How about JR or what must JR do for you to show him some Love?

The biggest thing would be being a much more efficient scorer. For that to happen, he'd have to fall out of love with contested off balance jump shots.

JR makes 10 mil less a year then Pierce. He isn't a hof but unless something changes he is the second best offensive player on the Knicks.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
yellowboy90
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9/21/2013  11:35 PM
Well it is not like JR hasn't had several "efficient" shooting seasons. Maybe his knee injury will restrict his ability to practice those step backs and limit him to only practicing catch and shooting. It would be nice if his shooting goes back up. I would take 44% FG and 38% 3FG with 4 FTs along with 5 rebs and 3 assists.
Bonn1997
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9/22/2013  1:46 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/22/2013  1:48 AM
yellowboy90 wrote:Well it is not like JR hasn't had several "efficient" shooting seasons. Maybe his knee injury will restrict his ability to practice those step backs and limit him to only practicing catch and shooting. It would be nice if his shooting goes back up. I would take 44% FG and 38% 3FG with 4 FTs along with 5 rebs and 3 assists.

Career-wise his efficiency ranks as average in the league (.426 FG% and .54 TS%) but he's way too talented to just be average.
He's also way too talented to average only 3 or 4 FTAs a game.
Bonn1997
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9/22/2013  1:49 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/22/2013  1:50 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
Papabear wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:Pierce is a future hall-of-famer and JR so far looks like someone no one will remember after he retires. It's hard to side with JR here.

Papabear Says

See Bonn1997 no one will also remember whether you were a Knicks fan or not.No one will care.


And I wouldn't take offense if someone said Bonn who?

Papabear Says

I like that Bonn1997 you sometimes tend to surprise me. You have a little love for Melo Don't you. How about JR or what must JR do for you to show him some Love?

The biggest thing would be being a much more efficient scorer. For that to happen, he'd have to fall out of love with contested off balance jump shots.

JR makes 10 mil less a year then Pierce. He isn't a hof but unless something changes he is the second best offensive player on the Knicks.

A low salary shouldn't give you permission to take bad shots.
The second comment depends on how much value you give to volume vs. efficient scoring.
Papa asked what Smith has to do for me to show him some love, not merely to accept him being on the roster.
yellowboy90
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9/22/2013  6:22 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:Well it is not like JR hasn't had several "efficient" shooting seasons. Maybe his knee injury will restrict his ability to practice those step backs and limit him to only practicing catch and shooting. It would be nice if his shooting goes back up. I would take 44% FG and 38% 3FG with 4 FTs along with 5 rebs and 3 assists.

Career-wise his efficiency ranks as average in the league (.426 FG% and .54 TS%) but he's way too talented to just be average.
He's also way too talented to average only 3 or 4 FTAs a game.

I think everyone would agree with all of that and that he should be a better FT shooter on top of that. However, I do think his role in Denver contributed to his FT attempts. He started out as a 3 ball gunner off the bench and there are not many specialist that I can think of recently that also got to the line a lot.

I could leave with the 3-4 attempts if he is a 38%-41% FT shooter though and not bat an eye. If he keeps going down though he needs to be at the line 5-7 times a night.
knickscity
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9/22/2013  7:07 AM
Never thought I'd see the day Paul Pierce being defended on the board.
Bonn1997
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9/22/2013  8:58 AM
knickscity wrote:Never thought I'd see the day Paul Pierce being defended on the board.

I don't hate opposing teams' players - whether that's a Red Sox or Celtics player. If a player is great, I respect and admire what they do.
dk7th
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9/22/2013  9:19 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:Never thought I'd see the day Paul Pierce being defended on the board.

I don't hate opposing teams' players - whether that's a Red Sox or Celtics player. If a player is great, I respect and admire what they do.

exactly. as a rule i respect and admire greatness no matter what uniform. where arguments should arise is whether the player is "actually," as in "universally recognized" as great, or a bit overrated, or in some instances completely overrated, not deserving of the greatness label.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
MaTT4281
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9/22/2013  10:08 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:Never thought I'd see the day Paul Pierce being defended on the board.

I don't hate opposing teams' players - whether that's a Red Sox or Celtics player. If a player is great, I respect and admire what they do.

F*ck 'em.
Bonn1997
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9/22/2013  10:38 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/22/2013  10:38 AM
MaTT4281 wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:Never thought I'd see the day Paul Pierce being defended on the board.

I don't hate opposing teams' players - whether that's a Red Sox or Celtics player. If a player is great, I respect and admire what they do.

F*ck 'em.

Plenty of our players have done ridiculous things too, you know? And they weren't even en route to a championship when they did it.
knickscity
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9/22/2013  10:38 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:Never thought I'd see the day Paul Pierce being defended on the board.

I don't hate opposing teams' players - whether that's a Red Sox or Celtics player. If a player is great, I respect and admire what they do.

Current Paul Pierce doesnt fit that mold tho. if this was a "used to be" discussion I'd agree.
Bonn1997
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9/22/2013  10:39 AM
knickscity wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:Never thought I'd see the day Paul Pierce being defended on the board.

I don't hate opposing teams' players - whether that's a Red Sox or Celtics player. If a player is great, I respect and admire what they do.

Current Paul Pierce doesnt fit that mold tho. if this was a "used to be" discussion I'd agree.

Does Derek Jeter fit that mold? Once you play at championship, hall-of-fame level, the respect should be there permanently.
smackeddog
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9/22/2013  10:42 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
yellowboy90 wrote:Well it is not like JR hasn't had several "efficient" shooting seasons. Maybe his knee injury will restrict his ability to practice those step backs and limit him to only practicing catch and shooting. It would be nice if his shooting goes back up. I would take 44% FG and 38% 3FG with 4 FTs along with 5 rebs and 3 assists.

Career-wise his efficiency ranks as average in the league (.426 FG% and .54 TS%) but he's way too talented to just be average.
He's also way too talented to average only 3 or 4 FTAs a game.

Indeed- thats why it was a beautiful thing to watch when he finally seemed (with 'seemed' being a very accurate word for it!) to 'get it' during the winning streak last year. Loved seeing him take it to the hoop and getting all those FT's.

In retrospect, it was a bit crazy considering he had a busted knee. Also I doubt we'll see that again this year, as I think it'll take a long time for him to recover. I'm anticipating a very inefficient year from JR, with low FG% and lots of chucking. Don't think people appreciated how much work he put into his game last offseason- it really paid off, which makes it a shame he's been grounded by surgery this year.
knickscity
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9/22/2013  10:45 AM    LAST EDITED: 9/22/2013  10:46 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:Never thought I'd see the day Paul Pierce being defended on the board.

I don't hate opposing teams' players - whether that's a Red Sox or Celtics player. If a player is great, I respect and admire what they do.

Current Paul Pierce doesnt fit that mold tho. if this was a "used to be" discussion I'd agree.

Does Derek Jeter fit that mold? Once you play at championship, hall-of-fame level, the respect should be there permanently.

But no one is talking about respecting a players career, the discussion has been about "current" Paul Pierce.

edit: I see you mentioned him being a future HOF'er so I guess that counts.

Sure wasnt what I was talking about tho.
Bonn1997
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9/22/2013  11:53 AM
knickscity wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:Never thought I'd see the day Paul Pierce being defended on the board.

I don't hate opposing teams' players - whether that's a Red Sox or Celtics player. If a player is great, I respect and admire what they do.

Current Paul Pierce doesnt fit that mold tho. if this was a "used to be" discussion I'd agree.

Does Derek Jeter fit that mold? Once you play at championship, hall-of-fame level, the respect should be there permanently.

But no one is talking about respecting a players career, the discussion has been about "current" Paul Pierce.

edit: I see you mentioned him being a future HOF'er so I guess that counts.

Sure wasnt what I was talking about tho.

Current? The current Paul Pierce is probably on a beach somewhere! Any discussion of the players' accomplishments will have to be looking at the past. How far back (1 season, whole career) you look is arbitrary. I'd say once you've a hall-of-fame career you've earned admiration.
dk7th
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9/22/2013  11:59 AM
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:Never thought I'd see the day Paul Pierce being defended on the board.

I don't hate opposing teams' players - whether that's a Red Sox or Celtics player. If a player is great, I respect and admire what they do.

Current Paul Pierce doesnt fit that mold tho. if this was a "used to be" discussion I'd agree.

Does Derek Jeter fit that mold? Once you play at championship, hall-of-fame level, the respect should be there permanently.

But no one is talking about respecting a players career, the discussion has been about "current" Paul Pierce.

edit: I see you mentioned him being a future HOF'er so I guess that counts.

Sure wasnt what I was talking about tho.

Current? The current Paul Pierce is probably on a beach somewhere! Any discussion of the players' accomplishments will have to be looking at the past. How far back (1 season, whole career) you look is arbitrary. I'd say once you've a hall-of-fame career you've earned admiration.

the man is a finals mvp, is super clutch, makes others around him better, plays the game the right way, old-school.

yes his wheelchair antic and the bowing crap is lamentable but those behaviors don't make him any less than great. same goes with garnett.

how about wade's "ouch my eye moment" in 2011? lebron's "i've been shot" flopping against chandler? i don't recall seeing a career of flopping from pierce or garnett.

knicks win 38-43 games in 16-17. rose MUST shoot no more than 14 shots per game, defer to kp6 + melo, and have a usage rate of less than 25%
knickscity
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9/22/2013  12:20 PM
dk7th wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:Never thought I'd see the day Paul Pierce being defended on the board.

I don't hate opposing teams' players - whether that's a Red Sox or Celtics player. If a player is great, I respect and admire what they do.

Current Paul Pierce doesnt fit that mold tho. if this was a "used to be" discussion I'd agree.

Does Derek Jeter fit that mold? Once you play at championship, hall-of-fame level, the respect should be there permanently.

But no one is talking about respecting a players career, the discussion has been about "current" Paul Pierce.

edit: I see you mentioned him being a future HOF'er so I guess that counts.

Sure wasnt what I was talking about tho.

Current? The current Paul Pierce is probably on a beach somewhere! Any discussion of the players' accomplishments will have to be looking at the past. How far back (1 season, whole career) you look is arbitrary. I'd say once you've a hall-of-fame career you've earned admiration.

the man is a finals mvp, is super clutch, makes others around him better, plays the game the right way, old-school.

yes his wheelchair antic and the bowing crap is lamentable but those behaviors don't make him any less than great. same goes with garnett.

how about wade's "ouch my eye moment" in 2011? lebron's "i've been shot" flopping against chandler? i don't recall seeing a career of flopping from pierce or garnett.


Pierce was nothing but meaningless stats before KG's arrival, multiple lotto visits....and only one season above 45 wins.

Having a better team made Pierce better, not the other way around.
Bonn1997
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9/22/2013  12:50 PM
knickscity wrote:
dk7th wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:
knickscity wrote:Never thought I'd see the day Paul Pierce being defended on the board.

I don't hate opposing teams' players - whether that's a Red Sox or Celtics player. If a player is great, I respect and admire what they do.

Current Paul Pierce doesnt fit that mold tho. if this was a "used to be" discussion I'd agree.

Does Derek Jeter fit that mold? Once you play at championship, hall-of-fame level, the respect should be there permanently.

But no one is talking about respecting a players career, the discussion has been about "current" Paul Pierce.

edit: I see you mentioned him being a future HOF'er so I guess that counts.

Sure wasnt what I was talking about tho.

Current? The current Paul Pierce is probably on a beach somewhere! Any discussion of the players' accomplishments will have to be looking at the past. How far back (1 season, whole career) you look is arbitrary. I'd say once you've a hall-of-fame career you've earned admiration.

the man is a finals mvp, is super clutch, makes others around him better, plays the game the right way, old-school.

yes his wheelchair antic and the bowing crap is lamentable but those behaviors don't make him any less than great. same goes with garnett.

how about wade's "ouch my eye moment" in 2011? lebron's "i've been shot" flopping against chandler? i don't recall seeing a career of flopping from pierce or garnett.


Pierce was nothing but meaningless stats before KG's arrival, multiple lotto visits....and only one season above 45 wins.

Having a better team made Pierce better, not the other way around.


He played very well but not at HOF level in the first half of his career. Players are judged by their entire careers not halves of their careers though. I've lost track of what your argument is anyway. Is it that Pierce hasn't accomplished enough to get away with dissing a guy like JR? That's really what this thread is about.
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JR Who? Paul Pierce and the unfortunate onset of Alzheimers...
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