CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

jrodmc wrote:We've improved every year Melo's been here. Every year. Look it up. But that doesn't matter. The same people who were moaning and beeyatching about 1st round exits, are now moaning about 2nd round exits. At least you're consistent. And please, talk more about being boring AND sad.

Melo now has to be the best player in the universe to earn a max contract. <--- this is such a brilliant point, I surely hope some Somber creates yet another, off season, I hate Melo thread to expound and repeat it endlessly.

Blowing it all up is great, since we can't beat the Heat, Pacers, Bulls, Nyeticks, etc etc. <---- see, this is what your dog is thinking when he pees in his own water dish. Congratulations, you've just proven that evolution could be true. You've expressed the same reasoning faculties as a canine.

Melo can't rebound <----- remember this? Well, at least now we've moved on to his other deficiencies; he can't pass and he can't defend, and the always comfortable "he doesn't make anyone better". Stay tuned, maybe this season we'll be able to remove one of those off the list, too. Then we can still complain that he's not likeable, he doesn't have any MVP's, he wasn't ROTY, he's not elite....

It's going to be a long month or so until the season starts...

Why would you give a max contract to a player who isn't the best? Especially when the best player in the league took less than the max the first time around. Why would anyone use up cap space that is needed to get better players to get this guy over the top.

Somber? Just because people point out Melo's few faults doesn't make one Somberite or what ever you guys call it. I never hated Melo I want him on the Knicks. I also know he needs all the help in the world to get him to a championship level. If Melo eats up a huge chunk of the cap you can kiss any championship talk good bye.

Melo needs to take his game to another level if Max money comes into play. I believe that he needs to increase his efficiency especially shooting. He needs to use his teammates better tired of watching him shoot with two players draped on him. Now if he is surrounded by other efficient players there is a good chance Melo's efficiency goes up. Similar to LeBron and Wade, but if Melo takes Max money there is a very good chance the Knicks will not be able to surround Melo with quality players who bring efficiency.

If you subtract the 7.7% Melo has to pay NYS in income tax from his salary (1.67 mil), he makes the same as LBJ. Players already have to take less to play in NYS. The nba needs to level the playing field with this state income tax issue. The guys I hear about taking less, LBJ, Duncan and Dirk come to mind, play in states where there is no state income tax. That makes a huge difference. In Lebron's case it is the difference on paper between his contract and Melo's.

You can make up far more than 7% in endorsement money here.

If you are a max guy, Dirk, LBJ and even Duncan, you can make that up anywhere. The point is guys take less to play in NY because of the income tax. Not a fair playing field. Also, if you are going to praise LBJ for taking 1.67 mil less then Melo you should look at all the facts because both guys at the end of the day take home the same thing from the nba club they play for. Also, tax is almost 8 % if we are rounding off.

So if you're a max contract player, you're not going to make more endorsement money even if you're living in an area with ten times as many people? You'll come out with the same endorsement money in a metro area of 2 mil vs. 20 mil people? How is that possible? I'd rather pay 7% extra tax and have ten times the population of potential fans

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

jrodmc wrote:We've improved every year Melo's been here. Every year. Look it up. But that doesn't matter. The same people who were moaning and beeyatching about 1st round exits, are now moaning about 2nd round exits. At least you're consistent. And please, talk more about being boring AND sad.

Melo now has to be the best player in the universe to earn a max contract. <--- this is such a brilliant point, I surely hope some Somber creates yet another, off season, I hate Melo thread to expound and repeat it endlessly.

Blowing it all up is great, since we can't beat the Heat, Pacers, Bulls, Nyeticks, etc etc. <---- see, this is what your dog is thinking when he pees in his own water dish. Congratulations, you've just proven that evolution could be true. You've expressed the same reasoning faculties as a canine.

Melo can't rebound <----- remember this? Well, at least now we've moved on to his other deficiencies; he can't pass and he can't defend, and the always comfortable "he doesn't make anyone better". Stay tuned, maybe this season we'll be able to remove one of those off the list, too. Then we can still complain that he's not likeable, he doesn't have any MVP's, he wasn't ROTY, he's not elite....

It's going to be a long month or so until the season starts...

Why would you give a max contract to a player who isn't the best? Especially when the best player in the league took less than the max the first time around. Why would anyone use up cap space that is needed to get better players to get this guy over the top.

Somber? Just because people point out Melo's few faults doesn't make one Somberite or what ever you guys call it. I never hated Melo I want him on the Knicks. I also know he needs all the help in the world to get him to a championship level. If Melo eats up a huge chunk of the cap you can kiss any championship talk good bye.

Melo needs to take his game to another level if Max money comes into play. I believe that he needs to increase his efficiency especially shooting. He needs to use his teammates better tired of watching him shoot with two players draped on him. Now if he is surrounded by other efficient players there is a good chance Melo's efficiency goes up. Similar to LeBron and Wade, but if Melo takes Max money there is a very good chance the Knicks will not be able to surround Melo with quality players who bring efficiency.

If you subtract the 7.7% Melo has to pay NYS in income tax from his salary (1.67 mil), he makes the same as LBJ. Players already have to take less to play in NYS. The nba needs to level the playing field with this state income tax issue. The guys I hear about taking less, LBJ, Duncan and Dirk come to mind, play in states where there is no state income tax. That makes a huge difference. In Lebron's case it is the difference on paper between his contract and Melo's.

You can make up far more than 7% in endorsement money here.

If you are a max guy, Dirk, LBJ and even Duncan, you can make that up anywhere. The point is guys take less to play in NY because of the income tax. Not a fair playing field. Also, if you are going to praise LBJ for taking 1.67 mil less then Melo you should look at all the facts because both guys at the end of the day take home the same thing from the nba club they play for. Also, tax is almost 8 % if we are rounding off.

So if you're a max contract player, you're not going to make more endorsement money even if you're living in an area with ten times as many people? You'll come out with the same endorsement money in a metro area of 2 mil vs. 20 mil people? How is that possible? I'd rather pay 7% extra tax and have ten times the population of potential fans

I think you pay the man cuz there are so few players that have the talent to get a great team over the top. Melo can't do it by himself. The Knicks roster is not elite. Lebron at least has other top tier players with him. We'll see what this years roster can accomplish, but I actually don't doubt that Melo will perform at a high level if his supporting cast is good enough. Just look at the 2nd and 3rd best players on the Knicks in the playoffs last year. He needs more help.

nixluva wrote:1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Rose
4. Kobe
5. Melo

I think you pay the man cuz there are so few players that have the talent to get a great team over the top. Melo can't do it by himself. The Knicks roster is not elite. Lebron at least has other top tier players with him. We'll see what this years roster can accomplish, but I actually don't doubt that Melo will perform at a high level if his supporting cast is good enough. Just look at the 2nd and 3rd best players on the Knicks in the playoffs last year. He needs more help.

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:We've improved every year Melo's been here. Every year. Look it up. But that doesn't matter. The same people who were moaning and beeyatching about 1st round exits, are now moaning about 2nd round exits. At least you're consistent. And please, talk more about being boring AND sad.

Melo now has to be the best player in the universe to earn a max contract. <--- this is such a brilliant point, I surely hope some Somber creates yet another, off season, I hate Melo thread to expound and repeat it endlessly.

Blowing it all up is great, since we can't beat the Heat, Pacers, Bulls, Nyeticks, etc etc. <---- see, this is what your dog is thinking when he pees in his own water dish. Congratulations, you've just proven that evolution could be true. You've expressed the same reasoning faculties as a canine.

Melo can't rebound <----- remember this? Well, at least now we've moved on to his other deficiencies; he can't pass and he can't defend, and the always comfortable "he doesn't make anyone better". Stay tuned, maybe this season we'll be able to remove one of those off the list, too. Then we can still complain that he's not likeable, he doesn't have any MVP's, he wasn't ROTY, he's not elite....

It's going to be a long month or so until the season starts...

Some people do a great job of fairly presenting and then arguing against their opponents' views...

You are not one of them.

+1

Papabear wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:I don't see why we would move away from Melo as if he's the reason we're not winning a title. Rarely does a title come down to one elite player. It's ALWAYS about the team. You build a team that can win a title. If we have in fact built a better team this year then I don't see how they fail so miserably that we would not re-sign Melo.

IMO you have to put things in perspective. The disappointment from not getting to the ECF's is far different than the failure to get out of the 1st round. I don't see the Knicks being a 1st rd. victim. I personally don't ascribe to the notion that this team will finish the #5 seed. I think the Knicks are one of the top tier teams in the East and as such they will be hard to beat by any 1st rd opponent. Even weak and injured it still took the Pacers 6 games to get rid of the Knicks. It seemed apparent to me that in that 6th game if we had just a little better talent around Melo he did enough to help the team win. Melo wasn't the part that let us down in that game. Just think about who the 2nd best player after Melo was and compare that to the 2nd best player on the Heat, Spurs or even Pacers.

DUDE There IS Nothing wrong with trying to find a positive spin with everything, but lets be honest..carmelo is not an elite player. He is a good volume scorer. He doesn't pass, or defend. He doesn't make anyone better...The knicks should be looking to build a team with players that actually compliment one another. you guys talk about getting rondo, well then look for two way players, ball movers, defenders, guys who can rebound.. guys who have their best years ahead of them. Carmelo is a Dinosaur.. that old jab step, fake, jab step, fake, jab step, shoot, game is old. It is prohibitive.. Hard to build around and certainly makes it hard to put players who like to move with out the ball around him..

Maybe you should focus on how can we eventually put a team together that can grow and be good for a long time..Carmelo may not stop us from getting a title, because we were never that good, but honestly he will not help us get one either.... Ok, so you say it isn't his fault.. great.. so now lets find solutions.. He isn't part of it.. and he wants mega money.. I say NO!!!!! leave CARMELO!!!

Papabear Says

So glad no one listens to you.

Did you say something?

foosballnick wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:We've improved every year Melo's been here. Every year. Look it up. But that doesn't matter. The same people who were moaning and beeyatching about 1st round exits, are now moaning about 2nd round exits. At least you're consistent. And please, talk more about being boring AND sad.

Melo now has to be the best player in the universe to earn a max contract. <--- this is such a brilliant point, I surely hope some Somber creates yet another, off season, I hate Melo thread to expound and repeat it endlessly.

Blowing it all up is great, since we can't beat the Heat, Pacers, Bulls, Nyeticks, etc etc. <---- see, this is what your dog is thinking when he pees in his own water dish. Congratulations, you've just proven that evolution could be true. You've expressed the same reasoning faculties as a canine.

Melo can't rebound <----- remember this? Well, at least now we've moved on to his other deficiencies; he can't pass and he can't defend, and the always comfortable "he doesn't make anyone better". Stay tuned, maybe this season we'll be able to remove one of those off the list, too. Then we can still complain that he's not likeable, he doesn't have any MVP's, he wasn't ROTY, he's not elite....

It's going to be a long month or so until the season starts...

Some people do a great job of fairly presenting and then arguing against their opponents' views...

You are not one of them.

+1

JRod's humor is apparently wasted on some.

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

nixluva wrote:1. Lebron
2. Durant
3. Rose
4. Kobe
5. Melo

I think you pay the man cuz there are so few players that have the talent to get a great team over the top. Melo can't do it by himself. The Knicks roster is not elite. Lebron at least has other top tier players with him. We'll see what this years roster can accomplish, but I actually don't doubt that Melo will perform at a high level if his supporting cast is good enough. Just look at the 2nd and 3rd best players on the Knicks in the playoffs last year. He needs more help.

WHY DOES his supporting cast have to be good enough for him to perform at a high level?!!!! great players are supposed to perform at a high level regardless of of what their team is doing.. I am not talking about winning or losing, but performing..... That should be a given for a great player, right? again, you are making excuses.. he first needs to be help before you start talking about him needing help.. that excuse is so damn old....

Have to agree with that. His performance in the playoffs was a little underwhelming regardless of how his teammates did.

Now, had he performed like he is capable of performing, then he still would have needed help.

honestly what is he capable of? I think the way he plays pretty much have dictated his underwhelming performances. not sure there is much upside to that. but I agree with that point. If he is playing better and at a higher level, then it would make sense to say he needs help.. but first things first.. He has to be the help....

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:We've improved every year Melo's been here. Every year. Look it up. But that doesn't matter. The same people who were moaning and beeyatching about 1st round exits, are now moaning about 2nd round exits. At least you're consistent. And please, talk more about being boring AND sad.

Melo now has to be the best player in the universe to earn a max contract. <--- this is such a brilliant point, I surely hope some Somber creates yet another, off season, I hate Melo thread to expound and repeat it endlessly.

Blowing it all up is great, since we can't beat the Heat, Pacers, Bulls, Nyeticks, etc etc. <---- see, this is what your dog is thinking when he pees in his own water dish. Congratulations, you've just proven that evolution could be true. You've expressed the same reasoning faculties as a canine.

Melo can't rebound <----- remember this? Well, at least now we've moved on to his other deficiencies; he can't pass and he can't defend, and the always comfortable "he doesn't make anyone better". Stay tuned, maybe this season we'll be able to remove one of those off the list, too. Then we can still complain that he's not likeable, he doesn't have any MVP's, he wasn't ROTY, he's not elite....

It's going to be a long month or so until the season starts...

Some people do a great job of fairly presenting and then arguing against their opponents' views...

You are not one of them.

+1

JRod's humor is apparently wasted on some.

I wouldn't call that humor. However misguided it was, it seemed like he had a serious (not humorous) intention - to indicate that in his view critics expect way too much from Carmelo.

He's exaggerating the obvious, which is a form of sarcasm.....and IMO it is entertaining to read. Perhaps you do not find it humorous because you take sports discussion more seriously than many? Further....JRod's obvious point is that to some posters (probably meaning TKF) no matter what Melo does, it will not be good enough as the parameters will keep changing. This is a very valid point.......perhaps not aimed at you as a poster......but at some others.

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:We've improved every year Melo's been here. Every year. Look it up. But that doesn't matter. The same people who were moaning and beeyatching about 1st round exits, are now moaning about 2nd round exits. At least you're consistent. And please, talk more about being boring AND sad.

Melo now has to be the best player in the universe to earn a max contract. <--- this is such a brilliant point, I surely hope some Somber creates yet another, off season, I hate Melo thread to expound and repeat it endlessly.

Blowing it all up is great, since we can't beat the Heat, Pacers, Bulls, Nyeticks, etc etc. <---- see, this is what your dog is thinking when he pees in his own water dish. Congratulations, you've just proven that evolution could be true. You've expressed the same reasoning faculties as a canine.

Melo can't rebound <----- remember this? Well, at least now we've moved on to his other deficiencies; he can't pass and he can't defend, and the always comfortable "he doesn't make anyone better". Stay tuned, maybe this season we'll be able to remove one of those off the list, too. Then we can still complain that he's not likeable, he doesn't have any MVP's, he wasn't ROTY, he's not elite....

It's going to be a long month or so until the season starts...

Some people do a great job of fairly presenting and then arguing against their opponents' views...

You are not one of them.

+1

JRod's humor is apparently wasted on some.

I wouldn't call that humor. However misguided it was, it seemed like he had a serious (not humorous) intention - to indicate that in his view critics expect way too much from Carmelo.

He's exaggerating the obvious, which is a form of sarcasm.....and IMO it is entertaining to read. Perhaps you do not find it humorous because you take sports discussion more seriously than many? Further....JRod's obvious point is that to some posters (probably meaning TKF) no matter what Melo does, it will not be good enough as the parameters will keep changing. This is a very valid point.......perhaps not aimed at you as a poster......but at some others.

Thanks foosball, check's in the mail.

Please realize Dr. Bonn gets irritated with any post that:

1) smacks of homerism
2) doesn't agree with Melo as the antichrist of basketball
3) doesn't reference some deranged, arcane statistical algorythm that supports his side of the argument (jk, jk)
4) he seems to have some type of problem with me, despite me apologizing for making fun of his signature line a few months ago.
5) comes from me because I'm a dayum funny happy homer and he has no sense of humor about the Knicks

By the way, he won't get the sarcastic humor in this post, either.

Having patented the term "Mr. .470", he's a bit touchy when it comes to even sarcastic Melo defenders.

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

tkf wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

jrodmc wrote:We've improved every year Melo's been here. Every year. Look it up. But that doesn't matter. The same people who were moaning and beeyatching about 1st round exits, are now moaning about 2nd round exits. At least you're consistent. And please, talk more about being boring AND sad.

Melo now has to be the best player in the universe to earn a max contract. <--- this is such a brilliant point, I surely hope some Somber creates yet another, off season, I hate Melo thread to expound and repeat it endlessly.

Blowing it all up is great, since we can't beat the Heat, Pacers, Bulls, Nyeticks, etc etc. <---- see, this is what your dog is thinking when he pees in his own water dish. Congratulations, you've just proven that evolution could be true. You've expressed the same reasoning faculties as a canine.

Melo can't rebound <----- remember this? Well, at least now we've moved on to his other deficiencies; he can't pass and he can't defend, and the always comfortable "he doesn't make anyone better". Stay tuned, maybe this season we'll be able to remove one of those off the list, too. Then we can still complain that he's not likeable, he doesn't have any MVP's, he wasn't ROTY, he's not elite....

It's going to be a long month or so until the season starts...

Some people do a great job of fairly presenting and then arguing against their opponents' views...

You are not one of them.

+1

JRod's humor is apparently wasted on some.

I wouldn't call that humor. However misguided it was, it seemed like he had a serious (not humorous) intention - to indicate that in his view critics expect way too much from Carmelo.

He's exaggerating the obvious, which is a form of sarcasm.....and IMO it is entertaining to read. Perhaps you do not find it humorous because you take sports discussion more seriously than many? Further....JRod's obvious point is that to some posters (probably meaning TKF) no matter what Melo does, it will not be good enough as the parameters will keep changing. This is a very valid point.......perhaps not aimed at you as a poster......but at some others.

Actually he's exaggerating his own misperception, which is just embarrassing.

Yes, the bold parts of my post are actual misperceptions. Continue to stick to math, Bonn.