Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:C- Melo is still on the team...

This:

A fair question to anyone who sees the Knicks’ offseason as anything less than super productive and yet another step in the right direction should be asked what more the team could have done in its quest to overthrow Miami.

Use the best available advanced stats to actually upgrade rather than downgrade the roster.
Or admit that this is not going to be a championship contending team and start over.

Perhaps the Advanced Stats they are using are different than the stats you are using. Perhaps they are looking at unit/team stats instead of individual stats? Also.....your statement "admit that this is not going to be a championship contending team and start over" is curious. Makes you appear to be an all or nothing kind of thinker. In my book, you don't just keep pressing the reset button every 1-2 years, especially if you are a playoff caliber team. The Knicks basically started over 4 years ago. The outcome of that reset was the creation of a playoff team, which has improved in record and playoff performance every year over the past 3 seasons. If they do not continue to improve and/or contend for a ship......they have an opportunity to reset again in 2015.

Championship winning is an all or nothing view. Contending isn't. I'm not aware of any team/unit stats that would paint a positive picture for the bargs trade. They certainly didn't mention those stats when discussing the trade.

Regarding Stats on Bargs - an example would be that he is a serviceable Man Defender - but not a very good help defender at the Center Position. His defensive assignments will most likely change with the Knicks. He will most likely not be expected to patrol the middle as a help defender at Center. If he is paired with either Tyson or KMart - he will have defensive support which will allow him to concentrate on his man (think PF). This is an example of how the unit dynamic will change from Toronto to NY.

Regarding Championship all or nothing. I can simply say......."that is why they play the games". Numbers are great, but that does not mean things always turn out as expected in sports. If Teams gave up just on numbers and projection going in to a season, why even bother playing a game at all? We can just cut to Spurs vs Miami again and let everyone else skip the season. Only one team wins every year....by your view everyone else should start over every year.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:C- Melo is still on the team...

This:

A fair question to anyone who sees the Knicks’ offseason as anything less than super productive and yet another step in the right direction should be asked what more the team could have done in its quest to overthrow Miami.

Use the best available advanced stats to actually upgrade rather than downgrade the roster.
Or admit that this is not going to be a championship contending team and start over.

Perhaps the Advanced Stats they are using are different than the stats you are using. Perhaps they are looking at unit/team stats instead of individual stats? Also.....your statement "admit that this is not going to be a championship contending team and start over" is curious. Makes you appear to be an all or nothing kind of thinker. In my book, you don't just keep pressing the reset button every 1-2 years, especially if you are a playoff caliber team. The Knicks basically started over 4 years ago. The outcome of that reset was the creation of a playoff team, which has improved in record and playoff performance every year over the past 3 seasons. If they do not continue to improve and/or contend for a ship......they have an opportunity to reset again in 2015.

Championship winning is an all or nothing view. Contending isn't. I'm not aware of any team/unit stats that would paint a positive picture for the bargs trade. They certainly didn't mention those stats when discussing the trade.

could be stats not used for public or they are using public stats and reduce his role to what he does well.

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:C- Melo is still on the team...

This:

A fair question to anyone who sees the Knicks’ offseason as anything less than super productive and yet another step in the right direction should be asked what more the team could have done in its quest to overthrow Miami.

Use the best available advanced stats to actually upgrade rather than downgrade the roster.
Or admit that this is not going to be a championship contending team and start over.

Perhaps the Advanced Stats they are using are different than the stats you are using. Perhaps they are looking at unit/team stats instead of individual stats? Also.....your statement "admit that this is not going to be a championship contending team and start over" is curious. Makes you appear to be an all or nothing kind of thinker. In my book, you don't just keep pressing the reset button every 1-2 years, especially if you are a playoff caliber team. The Knicks basically started over 4 years ago. The outcome of that reset was the creation of a playoff team, which has improved in record and playoff performance every year over the past 3 seasons. If they do not continue to improve and/or contend for a ship......they have an opportunity to reset again in 2015.

Championship winning is an all or nothing view. Contending isn't. I'm not aware of any team/unit stats that would paint a positive picture for the bargs trade. They certainly didn't mention those stats when discussing the trade.

could be stats not used for public or they are using public stats and reduce his role to what he does well.

Well if they've been using stats not available to the public all the time, then they ought to throw those out and start over. It's not like the team has a track record to run on.
It's much more likely that the front office is just a bunch of PPG whores and they thus salivated over Bargnani.

Sure that's it. We will see.

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

Bonn1997 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:C- Melo is still on the team...

This:

A fair question to anyone who sees the Knicks’ offseason as anything less than super productive and yet another step in the right direction should be asked what more the team could have done in its quest to overthrow Miami.

Use the best available advanced stats to actually upgrade rather than downgrade the roster.
Or admit that this is not going to be a championship contending team and start over.

Perhaps the Advanced Stats they are using are different than the stats you are using. Perhaps they are looking at unit/team stats instead of individual stats? Also.....your statement "admit that this is not going to be a championship contending team and start over" is curious. Makes you appear to be an all or nothing kind of thinker. In my book, you don't just keep pressing the reset button every 1-2 years, especially if you are a playoff caliber team. The Knicks basically started over 4 years ago. The outcome of that reset was the creation of a playoff team, which has improved in record and playoff performance every year over the past 3 seasons. If they do not continue to improve and/or contend for a ship......they have an opportunity to reset again in 2015.

Championship winning is an all or nothing view. Contending isn't. I'm not aware of any team/unit stats that would paint a positive picture for the bargs trade. They certainly didn't mention those stats when discussing the trade.

could be stats not used for public or they are using public stats and reduce his role to what he does well.

Well if they've been using stats not available to the public all the time, then they ought to throw those out and start over. It's not like the team has a track record to run on.
It's much more likely that the front office is just a bunch of PPG whores and they thus salivated over Bargnani.

Sure that's it. We will see.

3 of our 4 max/near max contract guys are basically PPG specialists who are subpar (to put it gently) at everything else.

jrodmc wrote:I'll take asking that question every day.

knicks1248 wrote:My question is how is woodson going to use the rotation, becaase he has 10 guys that are absoluetly not bench warmers..there's no KT, no old rookies, and no old ass veterans..we have quality players that need PT.

Nice problem to have, huh?

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:overachieved... gosh i feel the exact opposite.
also this guy is using criteria that is irrelevant-- the essence of how to grade a team's off-season moves is how well the team has done compared to how well its rivals have done. he is a moron for not taking this tack. it's second-rate thinking.

the most relevant rivals are the heat and the pacers since it is almost a given that that is who the east goes through. the nets and chicago are of secondary interest.

the heat are bad if lebron goes down with injury. if that happened that would be a shame for basketball but the east would be up for grabs.

He graded it based on what the Knicks could do under the circumstances they were in. I believe he said, Grunwald played the hand that was given to him.

how did we get these cinrcumstances. he wants to erase the history and base grades on pressing an unmentioned reset button.

homey don't play dat

Never letting go of the past no matter how many years go by is second-rate thinking, homey.

i see it differently. the past isn't dead it remains with us. this moron is pretending that the knicks have improved in a vacuum with no sense of relation to what other teams have done. it is connected to pretending the past does not have a direct relation on where the knicks are right now. it's a vain exercise.

and is february 2011 so long ago? aren't we in the melo era?

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:C- Melo is still on the team...

This:

A fair question to anyone who sees the Knicks’ offseason as anything less than super productive and yet another step in the right direction should be asked what more the team could have done in its quest to overthrow Miami.

"a fair question."

nope.

it's a rhetorical question. it would be wise to not equate rhetoric with pursuit of the truth.

smackeddog wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:C- Melo is still on the team...

This:

A fair question to anyone who sees the Knicks’ offseason as anything less than super productive and yet another step in the right direction should be asked what more the team could have done in its quest to overthrow Miami.

"a fair question."

nope.

it's a rhetorical question. it would be wise to not equate rhetoric with pursuit of the truth.

Play along and answer it then.

It's strange how some posters can't seem to allow themselves or others to give the Knicks ANY kind of compliment of any kind about anything- what's that about?!

that's a fair question.

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:I'll take asking that question every day.

knicks1248 wrote:My question is how is woodson going to use the rotation, becaase he has 10 guys that are absoluetly not bench warmers..there's no KT, no old rookies, and no old ass veterans..we have quality players that need PT.

Nice problem to have, huh?

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:overachieved... gosh i feel the exact opposite.
also this guy is using criteria that is irrelevant-- the essence of how to grade a team's off-season moves is how well the team has done compared to how well its rivals have done. he is a moron for not taking this tack. it's second-rate thinking.

the most relevant rivals are the heat and the pacers since it is almost a given that that is who the east goes through. the nets and chicago are of secondary interest.

the heat are bad if lebron goes down with injury. if that happened that would be a shame for basketball but the east would be up for grabs.

He graded it based on what the Knicks could do under the circumstances they were in. I believe he said, Grunwald played the hand that was given to him.

how did we get these cinrcumstances. he wants to erase the history and base grades on pressing an unmentioned reset button.

homey don't play dat

Never letting go of the past no matter how many years go by is second-rate thinking, homey.

i see it differently. the past isn't dead it remains with us. this moron is pretending that the knicks have improved in a vacuum with no sense of relation to what other teams have done. it is connected to pretending the past does not have a direct relation on where the knicks are right now. it's a vain exercise.

and is february 2011 so long ago? aren't we in the melo era?

It would be refreshing if you stopped using personal insults such as "moron" when discussing opinions and analysis.

"personal" is the operative word.

he's not a member of ultimateknicks.

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:

foosballnick wrote:

dk7th wrote:

jrodmc wrote:I'll take asking that question every day.

knicks1248 wrote:My question is how is woodson going to use the rotation, becaase he has 10 guys that are absoluetly not bench warmers..there's no KT, no old rookies, and no old ass veterans..we have quality players that need PT.

Nice problem to have, huh?

dk7th wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

dk7th wrote:overachieved... gosh i feel the exact opposite.
also this guy is using criteria that is irrelevant-- the essence of how to grade a team's off-season moves is how well the team has done compared to how well its rivals have done. he is a moron for not taking this tack. it's second-rate thinking.

the most relevant rivals are the heat and the pacers since it is almost a given that that is who the east goes through. the nets and chicago are of secondary interest.

the heat are bad if lebron goes down with injury. if that happened that would be a shame for basketball but the east would be up for grabs.

He graded it based on what the Knicks could do under the circumstances they were in. I believe he said, Grunwald played the hand that was given to him.

how did we get these cinrcumstances. he wants to erase the history and base grades on pressing an unmentioned reset button.

homey don't play dat

Never letting go of the past no matter how many years go by is second-rate thinking, homey.

i see it differently. the past isn't dead it remains with us. this moron is pretending that the knicks have improved in a vacuum with no sense of relation to what other teams have done. it is connected to pretending the past does not have a direct relation on where the knicks are right now. it's a vain exercise.

and is february 2011 so long ago? aren't we in the melo era?

It would be refreshing if you stopped using personal insults such as "moron" when discussing opinions and analysis.

"personal" is the operative word.

he's not a member of ultimateknicks.

Correct - he is a "member" of the human race....which you seem to have no regard fo

Is this serious? He called a reporter a moron and he has no regard/respect for the human race? Over-dramatic much? You can deduce that from interaction on a Knicks message board? Dudes on here are just as bad to TKF, do they not have any regard for the human race?