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Udrih: Knicks Must Elevate Defense, Rebounding To Reach Championship Level. Hint, hint,
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Dagger
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8/12/2013  2:50 PM
gunsnewing wrote:
Knicksfan wrote:
Bonn1997 wrote:haha. The team scored like 85 points a game against Indiana. Has a player ever said "We need to put up more points to reach championship level"? It's not like Udrih is known for defense too. He's just saying what every player always says, even if it doesn't actually fit the team's situation.

Wow, I actually agree with this. It sounds like the typical answer a NBA player gives. Truth is NY played good defense but had a tough time scoring and stopping Hibbert.

Tyson better come ready to play because he was an embarrassment.

Agree with both of you. Typical response you get from the casual media. Knicks don't rebound and defend when it was the offense that went down the ****ter. And we'll the rebounding too. Defense was fine. Matter of fact Tyson did a better job on Hibbert than Miami did

Tyson was absolutely abused by Hibbert. He couldn't have been much worse.
AUTOADVERT
gunsnewing
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8/12/2013  2:55 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/12/2013  4:26 PM
He was I'm with you but overall our D was good. Pacers were better on both ends. Tyson was abused by Hibbert but not every game. Tyson was able to check him a few games. Hibbert abused Miami every game. Check the boxscores

The Knicks offense was a joke. Melo one on five. No one could hit a perimeter shot. No PGs making plays. No guard penetration just chucking. And an over reliance on Kidd and Copeland stuck in the doghouse when we desperately needed offense
CrushAlot
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8/12/2013  4:22 PM
gunsnewing wrote:He was I'm with you but overall our D was good. Pacers were better on both ends. Tyson was abused by Hibbert but Hibbert but not every game. Tyson was a like to check him a few games. Hibbert abused Miami every game. Check the boxscores

The Knicks offense was a joke. Melo one on five. No one could hit a perimeter shot. No PGs making plays. No guard penetration just chucking. And an over reliance on Kidd and Copeland stuck in the doghouse when we desperately needed offense

Hopefully Bargs helps with hitting shots.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
yellowboy90
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8/12/2013  4:40 PM
gunsnewing wrote:He was I'm with you but overall our D was good. Pacers were better on both ends. Tyson was abused by Hibbert but not every game. Tyson was able to check him a few games. Hibbert abused Miami every game. Check the boxscores

The Knicks offense was a joke. Melo one on five. No one could hit a perimeter shot. No PGs making plays. No guard penetration just chucking. And an over reliance on Kidd and Copeland stuck in the doghouse when we desperately needed offense

that's because they were able to take away the pnr with Felton and Chandler. Knicks actually ran less iso in the series. They also waited to let to go with more double pnr sets. That's going to really cause problems going forward.


Also, when Melo leads the team in rebounds for a series with 6 something is wrong with your center. If the defensive rebounding numbers stayed the same from the season the Knicks would hqve had a better chance.
yellowboy90
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8/12/2013  4:50 PM
Also, Miami had an advantage on O despite Bosh's play. He kept Hibbert from always being in the restricted area. With Tyson and kenyon the knicks have to do things differently.

regarding Bargs: People talk about his low % on 3s but you have to consider where he is shooting most of his 3s from. He was not shooting easy corner 3s like Cope, Novak, and Shump most of his shots came above the break. Maybe he is just a bad shooter from the corner? I doubt it and the sample size doesn't help to make any real judgment. Anyway, either him or Melo(shot most 3s above break) should get more opportunities to shoot from the easier corner area.
Jmpasq
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8/12/2013  8:52 PM
misterearl wrote:What CashMoney said

With a roasted and toasted amare Stoudemire sidelined for the season, the Knicks will have a more responsive defense. Aching knees are a shaky foundation for any 6'11 forward.

Can 6'9 CJ Leslie play effective cameo defense against a quality NBA shooting guard?

Can Jeremy Tyler prove to be a quick study and shuffle his feet in a defensive stance or will he be a foul magnet?

Will Tim Hardaway Jr imitate I Man Shumpert by copying him? (Thank you Yogi)

We have defenders. All we need is trust. (Thank you Beatles)

does Tyson Chandler have some unfinished business?


Have u watched CJ Leslie play the guy is super lazy. I dont think he can guard anyone to be honest.

Jeremy Tyler is athletic enough sure but has atrocious fundamentals and instincts.

Tim Hardawy puts forth the effort but he isnt gifted athletically like Shumpert. Its to bad u cant stick Hardaway's work ethic into CJ Leslie and his smarts into Tyler then u would have good basketball players

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
Jmpasq
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8/12/2013  8:56 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:Backhand shot at Carmelo well I guess he is gone
He was aaked what it took to win. Not sure how that is a back handed shot at Melo.

Tim Duncan didn't care who scored the most points. He's a Hall of Famer, but he was more about the team. He just wanted us to win. Sometimes he scored 30, and the next day he scored 10, but he still was very, very productive in rebounding.

This is exactly what detractors say when they talk about Melo. That he only wants his he doesnt make the team better. Why would he point out Tim Duncan. I think he is saying if the best player buys in like Tim Duncan this team can win.

Check out My NFL Draft Prospect Videos at Youtube User Pages Jmpasq,JPdraftjedi,Jmpasqdraftjedi. www.Draftbreakdown.com
nixluva
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8/12/2013  9:26 PM
I think Melo is more than willing to let his teammates get involved, but what happened was that his teammates became less and less effective to the point where he felt he had to take over. Now with Beno and AB added to the mix this team has more legit skill and BB IQ along with offensive prowess. IMO Grunwald addressed the 2 biggest issues with the team last year. Kidd breaking down and not having a #2 option outside of JR off the bench. Now the Starting lineup will have a legit #2 option and still we'll have JR off the bench along with others. This team will still be able to defend and put a good defensive unit on the floor when they need stops.
CrushAlot
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8/12/2013  9:42 PM
Jmpasq wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
Jmpasq wrote:Backhand shot at Carmelo well I guess he is gone
He was aaked what it took to win. Not sure how that is a back handed shot at Melo.

Tim Duncan didn't care who scored the most points. He's a Hall of Famer, but he was more about the team. He just wanted us to win. Sometimes he scored 30, and the next day he scored 10, but he still was very, very productive in rebounding.

This is exactly what detractors say when they talk about Melo. That he only wants his he doesnt make the team better. Why would he point out Tim Duncan. I think he is saying if the best player buys in like Tim Duncan this team can win.

Who on the team do you think was going to play like Parker, or Ginobli? I think you have to be realistic. Did the Knicks have a championship roster last year? Ginobli averaged 21 pts and Parker 17 for the playoffs that year. The leading rebounder for the Spurs was Duncan with 12. The Knicks leading rebounder in the Pacers series was Melo with 7. You can't make this stuff up. The under used savior for the Knicks, Cope didn't score a point in the Celtic series. Melo was the leading rebounder in the Pacers Tyson's regular season average was ll boards a night. He averaged 6 in the Pacer series.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
yellowboy90
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8/12/2013  10:27 PM    LAST EDITED: 8/12/2013  10:31 PM
here is a little article for this convo


http://www.hickory-high.com/?p=7647

This is a couple of years old

http://www.goldenstateofmind.com/2011/9/24/2446337/who-are-the-nbas-most-valuable-mid-range-shooters
tkf
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8/12/2013  11:27 PM
nixluva wrote:I think Melo is more than willing to let his teammates get involved, but what happened was that his teammates became less and less effective to the point where he felt he had to take over. Now with Beno and AB added to the mix this team has more legit skill and BB IQ along with offensive prowess. IMO Grunwald addressed the 2 biggest issues with the team last year. Kidd breaking down and not having a #2 option outside of JR off the bench. Now the Starting lineup will have a legit #2 option and still we'll have JR off the bench along with others. This team will still be able to defend and put a good defensive unit on the floor when they need stops.

I don't get it... Bargs was under too much pressure to be a first option in toronto, but you expect him to be a legit #2 option in this shark infested media city? realy? I think some of you are just not being realistic at all. not in the least... this team added marginal players...beno is a decent PG and Bargnani is just a mixed bag of nuts.. never know what the heck you are going to get...

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
nixluva
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8/13/2013  12:59 AM
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:I think Melo is more than willing to let his teammates get involved, but what happened was that his teammates became less and less effective to the point where he felt he had to take over. Now with Beno and AB added to the mix this team has more legit skill and BB IQ along with offensive prowess. IMO Grunwald addressed the 2 biggest issues with the team last year. Kidd breaking down and not having a #2 option outside of JR off the bench. Now the Starting lineup will have a legit #2 option and still we'll have JR off the bench along with others. This team will still be able to defend and put a good defensive unit on the floor when they need stops.

I don't get it... Bargs was under too much pressure to be a first option in toronto, but you expect him to be a legit #2 option in this shark infested media city? realy? I think some of you are just not being realistic at all. not in the least... this team added marginal players...beno is a decent PG and Bargnani is just a mixed bag of nuts.. never know what the heck you are going to get...


AB hasn't lived up to his full potential yet, but that's the job of this staff to work with him and get him to the next level. I posted a lot of videos showing that AB still has great skills when he came back after his elbow injury last year. There's nothing wrong with him physically. When he's healthy AB is a problem for teams. AB had a 4 year stretch where he scored from 15 ppg to 21ppg, when he was healthy. Last year is not a reflection of who he is as a player. He'll be healthy and happy and with a team that is behind him and working to help him succeed.

The Knicks have plans for AB. The Knicks could've brought in a lot of different PG's, but you can see that they want to get the most out of AB with the addition of Beno. Beno plays a great PnP game and that's something AB loves to do as well and so the 2 of them should form a great duo on the perimeter and mid post running PnP/PnR. Then you also still have Prigs who is a good PnR PG too. Basically we'll play to the strengths of our players. I also think they'll try to get AB more post ups near the basket which should raise his FG% and if Woody can get him to buy in on hitting the boards and defending he'll be a more complete player. It's a mental approach, cuz he's physically able to do it.
CrushAlot
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8/13/2013  9:58 AM
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:I think Melo is more than willing to let his teammates get involved, but what happened was that his teammates became less and less effective to the point where he felt he had to take over. Now with Beno and AB added to the mix this team has more legit skill and BB IQ along with offensive prowess. IMO Grunwald addressed the 2 biggest issues with the team last year. Kidd breaking down and not having a #2 option outside of JR off the bench. Now the Starting lineup will have a legit #2 option and still we'll have JR off the bench along with others. This team will still be able to defend and put a good defensive unit on the floor when they need stops.

I don't get it... Bargs was under too much pressure to be a first option in toronto, but you expect him to be a legit #2 option in this shark infested media city? realy? I think some of you are just not being realistic at all. not in the least... this team added marginal players...beno is a decent PG and Bargnani is just a mixed bag of nuts.. never know what the heck you are going to get...

I think there is a difference between media pressure and being the guy other teams game plan for. Bargs won't be the focus of the other teams defense. In Bosh's last two years as a rap Bargs shot almost 40% for threes and 46 % from the field. I think he will help the Knicks offense a lot. I could be wrong but I don't think Nix was talking about off court scrutiny as the number one guy. Bosh leaving crushed that franchise.
I'm tired,I'm tired, I'm so tired right now......Kristaps Porzingis 1/3/18
foosballnick
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8/13/2013  10:18 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:I think Melo is more than willing to let his teammates get involved, but what happened was that his teammates became less and less effective to the point where he felt he had to take over. Now with Beno and AB added to the mix this team has more legit skill and BB IQ along with offensive prowess. IMO Grunwald addressed the 2 biggest issues with the team last year. Kidd breaking down and not having a #2 option outside of JR off the bench. Now the Starting lineup will have a legit #2 option and still we'll have JR off the bench along with others. This team will still be able to defend and put a good defensive unit on the floor when they need stops.

I don't get it... Bargs was under too much pressure to be a first option in toronto, but you expect him to be a legit #2 option in this shark infested media city? realy? I think some of you are just not being realistic at all. not in the least... this team added marginal players...beno is a decent PG and Bargnani is just a mixed bag of nuts.. never know what the heck you are going to get...

I think there is a difference between media pressure and being the guy other teams game plan for. Bargs won't be the focus of the other teams defense. In Bosh's last two years as a rap Bargs shot almost 40% for threes and 46 % from the field. I think he will help the Knicks offense a lot. I could be wrong but I don't think Nix was talking about off court scrutiny as the number one guy. Bosh leaving crushed that franchise.

+1. #1 option vs alternate option on offensee has to do with on the court and carrying an offense. Media pressure will be higher in NY....but Melo is still the Media focus for the Knicks....JR, Amare (if playing) and Tyson will still be ahead of AB in terms of media attention IMO.
tkf
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8/13/2013  10:50 AM
nixluva wrote:
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:I think Melo is more than willing to let his teammates get involved, but what happened was that his teammates became less and less effective to the point where he felt he had to take over. Now with Beno and AB added to the mix this team has more legit skill and BB IQ along with offensive prowess. IMO Grunwald addressed the 2 biggest issues with the team last year. Kidd breaking down and not having a #2 option outside of JR off the bench. Now the Starting lineup will have a legit #2 option and still we'll have JR off the bench along with others. This team will still be able to defend and put a good defensive unit on the floor when they need stops.

I don't get it... Bargs was under too much pressure to be a first option in toronto, but you expect him to be a legit #2 option in this shark infested media city? realy? I think some of you are just not being realistic at all. not in the least... this team added marginal players...beno is a decent PG and Bargnani is just a mixed bag of nuts.. never know what the heck you are going to get...


AB hasn't lived up to his full potential yet, but that's the job of this staff to work with him and get him to the next level. I posted a lot of videos showing that AB still has great skills when he came back after his elbow injury last year. There's nothing wrong with him physically. When he's healthy AB is a problem for teams. AB had a 4 year stretch where he scored from 15 ppg to 21ppg, when he was healthy. Last year is not a reflection of who he is as a player. He'll be healthy and happy and with a team that is behind him and working to help him succeed.

The Knicks have plans for AB. The Knicks could've brought in a lot of different PG's, but you can see that they want to get the most out of AB with the addition of Beno. Beno plays a great PnP game and that's something AB loves to do as well and so the 2 of them should form a great duo on the perimeter and mid post running PnP/PnR. Then you also still have Prigs who is a good PnR PG too. Basically we'll play to the strengths of our players. I also think they'll try to get AB more post ups near the basket which should raise his FG% and if Woody can get him to buy in on hitting the boards and defending he'll be a more complete player. It's a mental approach, cuz he's physically able to do it.

I honestly think you are headed for a lot of disappointment... let me ask you this, because I am going to individually ask other posters...

what was your view of bargnani before the trade? honestly.

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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8/13/2013  10:51 AM
CrushAlot wrote:
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:I think Melo is more than willing to let his teammates get involved, but what happened was that his teammates became less and less effective to the point where he felt he had to take over. Now with Beno and AB added to the mix this team has more legit skill and BB IQ along with offensive prowess. IMO Grunwald addressed the 2 biggest issues with the team last year. Kidd breaking down and not having a #2 option outside of JR off the bench. Now the Starting lineup will have a legit #2 option and still we'll have JR off the bench along with others. This team will still be able to defend and put a good defensive unit on the floor when they need stops.

I don't get it... Bargs was under too much pressure to be a first option in toronto, but you expect him to be a legit #2 option in this shark infested media city? realy? I think some of you are just not being realistic at all. not in the least... this team added marginal players...beno is a decent PG and Bargnani is just a mixed bag of nuts.. never know what the heck you are going to get...

I think there is a difference between media pressure and being the guy other teams game plan for. Bargs won't be the focus of the other teams defense. In Bosh's last two years as a rap Bargs shot almost 40% for threes and 46 % from the field. I think he will help the Knicks offense a lot. I could be wrong but I don't think Nix was talking about off court scrutiny as the number one guy. Bosh leaving crushed that franchise.

can you honestly answer this for me...

what was your view of bargnani before the trade?

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
tkf
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8/13/2013  10:51 AM
foosballnick wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:I think Melo is more than willing to let his teammates get involved, but what happened was that his teammates became less and less effective to the point where he felt he had to take over. Now with Beno and AB added to the mix this team has more legit skill and BB IQ along with offensive prowess. IMO Grunwald addressed the 2 biggest issues with the team last year. Kidd breaking down and not having a #2 option outside of JR off the bench. Now the Starting lineup will have a legit #2 option and still we'll have JR off the bench along with others. This team will still be able to defend and put a good defensive unit on the floor when they need stops.

I don't get it... Bargs was under too much pressure to be a first option in toronto, but you expect him to be a legit #2 option in this shark infested media city? realy? I think some of you are just not being realistic at all. not in the least... this team added marginal players...beno is a decent PG and Bargnani is just a mixed bag of nuts.. never know what the heck you are going to get...

I think there is a difference between media pressure and being the guy other teams game plan for. Bargs won't be the focus of the other teams defense. In Bosh's last two years as a rap Bargs shot almost 40% for threes and 46 % from the field. I think he will help the Knicks offense a lot. I could be wrong but I don't think Nix was talking about off court scrutiny as the number one guy. Bosh leaving crushed that franchise.

+1. #1 option vs alternate option on offensee has to do with on the court and carrying an offense. Media pressure will be higher in NY....but Melo is still the Media focus for the Knicks....JR, Amare (if playing) and Tyson will still be ahead of AB in terms of media attention IMO.

can you honestly answer this for me...

what was your view of bargnani before the trade?

Anyone who sits around and waits for the lottery to better themselves, either in real life or in sports, Is a Loser............... TKF
CrushAlot
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8/13/2013  10:54 AM
tkf wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:I think Melo is more than willing to let his teammates get involved, but what happened was that his teammates became less and less effective to the point where he felt he had to take over. Now with Beno and AB added to the mix this team has more legit skill and BB IQ along with offensive prowess. IMO Grunwald addressed the 2 biggest issues with the team last year. Kidd breaking down and not having a #2 option outside of JR off the bench. Now the Starting lineup will have a legit #2 option and still we'll have JR off the bench along with others. This team will still be able to defend and put a good defensive unit on the floor when they need stops.

I don't get it... Bargs was under too much pressure to be a first option in toronto, but you expect him to be a legit #2 option in this shark infested media city? realy? I think some of you are just not being realistic at all. not in the least... this team added marginal players...beno is a decent PG and Bargnani is just a mixed bag of nuts.. never know what the heck you are going to get...

I think there is a difference between media pressure and being the guy other teams game plan for. Bargs won't be the focus of the other teams defense. In Bosh's last two years as a rap Bargs shot almost 40% for threes and 46 % from the field. I think he will help the Knicks offense a lot. I could be wrong but I don't think Nix was talking about off court scrutiny as the number one guy. Bosh leaving crushed that franchise.

+1. #1 option vs alternate option on offensee has to do with on the court and carrying an offense. Media pressure will be higher in NY....but Melo is still the Media focus for the Knicks....JR, Amare (if playing) and Tyson will still be ahead of AB in terms of media attention IMO.

can you honestly answer this for me...

what was your view of bargnani before the trade?

I don't get league pass so I usually watched him against the Knicks. He always looked very good in fact he usually seemed to kill the Knicks. Not sure if you saw it but when the trade happened I said I thought this was the only place it would be criticized so my view is pretty high. The guy is 27 and coming back from two years of being injured and being the man post Bosh. I think he has a big season in NY.
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NYKBocker
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8/13/2013  11:18 AM
tkf wrote:
foosballnick wrote:
CrushAlot wrote:
tkf wrote:
nixluva wrote:I think Melo is more than willing to let his teammates get involved, but what happened was that his teammates became less and less effective to the point where he felt he had to take over. Now with Beno and AB added to the mix this team has more legit skill and BB IQ along with offensive prowess. IMO Grunwald addressed the 2 biggest issues with the team last year. Kidd breaking down and not having a #2 option outside of JR off the bench. Now the Starting lineup will have a legit #2 option and still we'll have JR off the bench along with others. This team will still be able to defend and put a good defensive unit on the floor when they need stops.

I don't get it... Bargs was under too much pressure to be a first option in toronto, but you expect him to be a legit #2 option in this shark infested media city? realy? I think some of you are just not being realistic at all. not in the least... this team added marginal players...beno is a decent PG and Bargnani is just a mixed bag of nuts.. never know what the heck you are going to get...

I think there is a difference between media pressure and being the guy other teams game plan for. Bargs won't be the focus of the other teams defense. In Bosh's last two years as a rap Bargs shot almost 40% for threes and 46 % from the field. I think he will help the Knicks offense a lot. I could be wrong but I don't think Nix was talking about off court scrutiny as the number one guy. Bosh leaving crushed that franchise.

+1. #1 option vs alternate option on offensee has to do with on the court and carrying an offense. Media pressure will be higher in NY....but Melo is still the Media focus for the Knicks....JR, Amare (if playing) and Tyson will still be ahead of AB in terms of media attention IMO.

can you honestly answer this for me...

what was your view of bargnani before the trade?

I actually liked Bargs a lot. He can put the ball on the floor for a 7 footer. He can shoot from anywhere. Mid Range. 3 pointer...corner 3s, elbow 3 or straight ahead. Has great feet for low post moves. Has vision and foot work for the high post. In the low post he has an assortment of moves. He has a little bit of McHale in him but not quite he sometimes relies too much on the fade away when he should just turn and shoot...but he does make those fade aways.

Defense...well..he is really tall so he can defend his man...just don't ask him to be a help defender. Plays the zone really well.

Rebounder....if he learns to always box out then I think he can get his average to around 8 rpg.
yellowboy90
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8/13/2013  11:31 AM
if people really want to examine Bargs, udrih, and everyone else why not break down their games as a whole then where they fit with the Knicks. Compare their numbers to the numbers who they're replacing but not only their numbers the shots they took asst'd or unasst'd and where they shot most of their shots then the compare it to the shots they would take here
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