dk7th wrote:

Nalod wrote:

dk7th wrote:

Nalod wrote:

dk7th wrote:it was all part of the delusional thinking that robert moses brought. cars and modernization and basically an elitist mindset. he really made a mess of new york. we could have been on a par with european cities with a comprehensive railway system.

How? Subway system is one of the best in the world?

The Euro model is in place because of density of cities. North East has pretty good amtrak, not high speed mind you but cars/highways made plentiful while creating sprawl, worked for a long time.

Energy going forward will still be inexpensive compared to rest of world. In fact, MPG standards and electric are reducing demand quite a bit.

The Euromodel of transport works but your talking about socialized countries. Big game changer.

subway could have been far more extensive but it was cheaper to tear down neighborhoods to build comparatively cheap arteries like the cross bronx and what have you. also i was referring to the LIRR being underdeveloped as well. money was put into roadways for long island to prevent lesser-monied people from gaining access to long island and its treasures.

now it's impossible to exert eminent domain, never mind the ability of the wealthy to fork over enough dough to make changes that are now impossible to make anyway. the demand for socialism is a red herring. all i am saying is that at one time there was a different, better, and more costly course of action the powers that be could have taken for the general good and for posterity's sake, especially less crime in neighborhoods which have good infrastructure and don't rely on automobiles and gasoline.

alternatively, when i think of amtrak i think of the us postal service.

YOu bring up good points and admittingly I have not lived in NYC in 28 years nor studied it in some time. I had done a bit of reading on Moses and the "Vision" of modernism.

Long islands demographics have changed so much over years and real estate prices in the metro area make life difficult for many.

I was very naive and thought NYC was the greatest place in the world! I spend my high school years and went to college on the island and it was great. When I saw there are other ways to live I was intrigued to see how. I don't hate on NYC or Metro area but I can breath in the Carolinas and make a good living at the same time. Whats funny is all my friends are "refugees" from the north east as well and been here 20 plus years as well!

moses really destroyed the city (all boroughs including queens and nassau) by giving primacy to the automobile. that's really the bottom line. nowadays the only way to combat congestion is carpooling and biking. new york could have been so much better if there were more rails, be they above or below ground. it would have meant fewer accidents, vehicular homicides, livery services, less pollution, less noise, and more social mobility, less crime. i am looking forward to seeing the impact the 2nd avenue line will have on the general well-being of east siders.

here is a link to a nice, illustrative article from the NYT:

http://www.nytimes.com/2012/08/05/magazine/tunneling-below-second-avenue.html?pagewanted=all

We all know by now we were suppose to have the flying car!!!!

bottom line is the city property values keep rising, its an international city, and is better run than most. We have two islands, man rivers to cross, and its OLD!!!!! Euro cities work better but look at the taxes the socialized economies can spend levy and reinvest in those infrastructure.