CrushAlot wrote:

playa2 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I try to check in on the free agent tracker on nba.com. There is only one free agent that an opinion is written on out of all of the guys on there and it is Cope. It says after his name, Pacers bolster their bench with Knicks Copeland. Unbelievable. There have been some huge moves in free agency and all that is mentioned is contract length etc for every guy except for the one player that left the Knicks.

And you think we are trying to win by any means necessary ? We let go a guy who could have helped us, that explains itself.

My point wasn't about letting go of Cope. It was about how the Knicks are treated by the media or in this case the staff at nba.com. Some really big names moved to other teams in free agency. The moves aren't judged or praised and the former team isn't mentioned. I know cope is beloved here but if you are going to choose one free agent signing to praise and mention the former team wouldn't you pick someone else? Dwight Howard, josh smith, monta Ellis, al Jefferson ... It bothers and surprises me that out of all the moves this is the move where a team gets praised.

Because unlike other movers Cope was a cheap and very good move by the Pacers. The other moves that you stated were more money and Cope if given those players time you mentioned he produces close to or on par with them. This is a big loss by the Knicks. This is all Woody's fault.

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

playa2 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I try to check in on the free agent tracker on nba.com. There is only one free agent that an opinion is written on out of all of the guys on there and it is Cope. It says after his name, Pacers bolster their bench with Knicks Copeland. Unbelievable. There have been some huge moves in free agency and all that is mentioned is contract length etc for every guy except for the one player that left the Knicks.

And you think we are trying to win by any means necessary ? We let go a guy who could have helped us, that explains itself.

My point wasn't about letting go of Cope. It was about how the Knicks are treated by the media or in this case the staff at nba.com. Some really big names moved to other teams in free agency. The moves aren't judged or praised and the former team isn't mentioned. I know cope is beloved here but if you are going to choose one free agent signing to praise and mention the former team wouldn't you pick someone else? Dwight Howard, josh smith, monta Ellis, al Jefferson ... It bothers and surprises me that out of all the moves this is the move where a team gets praised.

Because unlike other movers Cope was a cheap and very good move by the Pacers. The other moves that you stated were more money and Cope if given those players time you mentioned he produces close to or on par with them. This is a big loss by the Knicks. This is all Woody's fault.

Howard gets 'fresh start' with Rockets
Pistons make it official, sign Smith |
Iguodala joins Warriors after three-team trade
Ellis, Mavs agree to 3-year deal

Comments on Cope:
Pacers boost bench, add Knicks' Copeland

I am sure I am being petty but there is a different spin to what was written about Cope and no matter how disappointed you are that the Knicks didn't keep him he is no where close to the pickup of a D12, Josh Smith, Iggy or Ellis.

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

playa2 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I try to check in on the free agent tracker on nba.com. There is only one free agent that an opinion is written on out of all of the guys on there and it is Cope. It says after his name, Pacers bolster their bench with Knicks Copeland. Unbelievable. There have been some huge moves in free agency and all that is mentioned is contract length etc for every guy except for the one player that left the Knicks.

And you think we are trying to win by any means necessary ? We let go a guy who could have helped us, that explains itself.

My point wasn't about letting go of Cope. It was about how the Knicks are treated by the media or in this case the staff at nba.com. Some really big names moved to other teams in free agency. The moves aren't judged or praised and the former team isn't mentioned. I know cope is beloved here but if you are going to choose one free agent signing to praise and mention the former team wouldn't you pick someone else? Dwight Howard, josh smith, monta Ellis, al Jefferson ... It bothers and surprises me that out of all the moves this is the move where a team gets praised.

Because unlike other movers Cope was a cheap and very good move by the Pacers. The other moves that you stated were more money and Cope if given those players time you mentioned he produces close to or on par with them. This is a big loss by the Knicks. This is all Woody's fault.

Well it was an organizational decision as they prioritized resigning Prigs first. My point is about the coverage of the Knicks. Some teams got guys that make them contenders right now or in the future. Comments for big name signings:

Howard gets 'fresh start' with Rockets
Pistons make it official, sign Smith |
Iguodala joins Warriors after three-team trade
Ellis, Mavs agree to 3-year deal

Comments on Cope:
Pacers boost bench, add Knicks' Copeland

I am sure I am being petty but there is a different spin to what was written about Cope and no matter how disappointed you are that the Knicks didn't keep him he is no where close to the pickup of a D12, Josh Smith, Iggy or Ellis.

Maybe people don't know who Copeland is, that's why the mentioned Knicks. Also it has a lot to do with marketing to mention a large fan base so to increase readership and hits.

As far Cope being not as good as those you mention. I will give you some but I refuse to give you Josh Smith and Iggy. I truly believe if give ample playing time Cope puts up similar numbers better shooting and surprisingly good defense.

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

playa2 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I try to check in on the free agent tracker on nba.com. There is only one free agent that an opinion is written on out of all of the guys on there and it is Cope. It says after his name, Pacers bolster their bench with Knicks Copeland. Unbelievable. There have been some huge moves in free agency and all that is mentioned is contract length etc for every guy except for the one player that left the Knicks.

And you think we are trying to win by any means necessary ? We let go a guy who could have helped us, that explains itself.

My point wasn't about letting go of Cope. It was about how the Knicks are treated by the media or in this case the staff at nba.com. Some really big names moved to other teams in free agency. The moves aren't judged or praised and the former team isn't mentioned. I know cope is beloved here but if you are going to choose one free agent signing to praise and mention the former team wouldn't you pick someone else? Dwight Howard, josh smith, monta Ellis, al Jefferson ... It bothers and surprises me that out of all the moves this is the move where a team gets praised.

Because unlike other movers Cope was a cheap and very good move by the Pacers. The other moves that you stated were more money and Cope if given those players time you mentioned he produces close to or on par with them. This is a big loss by the Knicks. This is all Woody's fault.

Well it was an organizational decision as they prioritized resigning Prigs first. My point is about the coverage of the Knicks. Some teams got guys that make them contenders right now or in the future. Comments for big name signings:

Howard gets 'fresh start' with Rockets
Pistons make it official, sign Smith |
Iguodala joins Warriors after three-team trade
Ellis, Mavs agree to 3-year deal

Comments on Cope:
Pacers boost bench, add Knicks' Copeland

I am sure I am being petty but there is a different spin to what was written about Cope and no matter how disappointed you are that the Knicks didn't keep him he is no where close to the pickup of a D12, Josh Smith, Iggy or Ellis.

Maybe people don't know who Copeland is, that's why the mentioned Knicks. Also it has a lot to do with marketing to mention a large fan base so to increase readership and hits.

As far Cope being not as good as those you mention. I will give you some but I refuse to give you Josh Smith and Iggy. I truly believe if give ample playing time Cope puts up similar numbers better shooting and surprisingly good defense.

I think you are overvaluing Cope quite a bit. He is the same age as Iggy and Smith is a year younger. Iggy was 18,8 and 5 this past year. I don't see Cope getting there. Smith was 17,8 and 4. I don't see Cope getting there either. I am not even sure he gets many minutes if Granger is back. The second unit for the Pacers is Watson, Mahini, Stephenson, Hill and Cope.

I feel you are undervaluing Cope. What I see is 48%fg and 42%fg from three. He was your most consistent with the highest percentage. Better than high volume shooter Smith and Melo. The Knicks lost their highest shooting percentage perimeter player.

Papabear wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Papabear wrote:

RonRon wrote:Isola is a troll that gets paid to be one, I am sure plenty of NYK players want to kick his ass with the way he talks/tone/be littles players and the Knick's
While some get paid NOTHING on here to do the same, anyone wonder if these writers lurk inside here on UK.com
I think some do although they might not even post, they could just read the boards for inspiration

Papa Bear, it took some time, but you finally are seeing that The Knick's make questionable moves, welcome to the "DARK SIDE"
I know you bleed orange and blue, just like I do, but you use to see almost all the moves as positives for the franchise, defend the moves of the franchise, and get defensive when posters get negative about the moves they make

Now some players take it to the extreme, but not all do, some sincerely wish the best for the Knick's but just question don't agree with the moves that the franchise makes
With this post you are starting to question the franchise itself as you have every right to do so

Papabear Says

Hey Ron Ron! No NO No! I'm not on the Dark side yet TKF have not bit me on the neck yet.So I'm still in the lite but asking more questions and seeing clearly about Dolan and the way the Knicks machine runs. They really want to win but making money loyalty when you disagree comes before a title.

no, I am not putting you in the TFK Darkside, i meant a more grey area,
Where as back then you would be more PRO KNICKS no matter what they did, you would justify it, defend it, and believe it was for the better of the franchise
But now you see things with a little bit different perspective, questioning if the moves of the franchise are really for the better of the team or for other reasons

I know we have had our fair amount on different opinions/perspectives for the better of the team, in the past, and probably will continue to have some in the future
I am not as evil (anti Knicks) as you once thought I was, I put myself more in a grey area
In fact, I actually try to give examples on how I think we can improve the team by utilizing players/rotations differently or/and with trading players, and all for the better of the KNICKS, not individual players

Anyway, hope we can have more respectful debates and share our own 2 cent's in a appropriate manner, some we may agree on and some we might not
I am sorry for some of the words I have said to you, hope we can move along and continue to cheer for the same team

Papabear Says

I agree. And hell will break loose if Melo decides to up and leave the knicks. Two big mistakes the team make. 1 they could have gotten Amare for less with 4 years and 3 guaranteed and 4th partialed. 2 They should have never signed Tyson Chandler for that kind of money. We should have waited for Chris Paul. Amare really hurt bad. Over 20 million. Damn we could have gotten 3 damn good player for 20 million. And border line all-stars or all-stars.

Hey Papa Bear,

Where do you put me in your eyes?
Interested see where you label me, am in the "dark side" with TFK?

No, I don't always agree with the decisions management makes, head coaching decisions, roster and ways to acquire and keep assets/value for development and future uses in possible trades
In fact, most of the times, I am usually against most of the decisions that they make
There are times that I am completely wrong and sometimes I hit it right on the spot
I can't help it but I am always looking for ways in which I think could improve the TEAM and maximize the talents/roster on the Knicks
Just because a player is a Knick or is no longer a Knick, I won't praise them or bash them because of their team, I try to evaluate talent on my own
I am a basketball fan first then a Knicks' fan 2nd

But I consider myself a big Knick's fan which makes it very tough because disagree with many decisions they make, some of which are VERY simple like playing Lin when we need penetration, moving Melo to PF *in Dantoni's era*, if he wanted him to play the Point/Forward role to create for the team, and not at SF because we need to create mismatches in Dantoni's philosophy with speed/quickness/3pt shoot with spacing and penetration/ opening lanes for PnR, cuts, post up opportunities, and a lane to penetrate with a mobile PF to play Center

I post more negative posts about the team than positives because I feel that the franchise makes too many dumb moves, making it very hard to swallow because I think they could always be better than they actually were

I think I am somewhere in between a grey area, in the end, I look for many ways that I think could improve the Knicks with the way players are utilized/trades/signing players/rotations/a philosophy that fits and maximizes the talents/rotations of the roster

No, I did not like the trade for Melo, but I do think he is by far the Knick's best player, just not worth what we payed for and is NOT worth a max extension
I don't want to get in full detail about the trade for Melo but no team trades 4 starters, the cap space we gave Denver to save over 60million in salary/tax, with 1 1st round pick, 2 predicted high 2nd round picks that we acquired for David Lee on a struggling/rebuilding GS team *at the time*, and a swap of the 2016 pick when Melo could opt out next season and we could be a top 10 pick

Melo is a very good scorer but he is NOT the franchise LEGEND that Melo thinks he is
He isn't a leader by any means and that was why we signed Kidd with all the old guys like Sheed/Camby, to bring leadership instead of talent to go with leadership that we need
To help Melo's ego and be the super hero that Lin stole from him and (during Lin's run) the NYK fan's from around the world were more interested in Lin running the team than Melo

Melo is NOT a leader or ELITE player, he is a high volume scorer, and he should not be treated like a Lebron/Durant and even a more complete player like Paul George/Harden
Even Rudy Gay has abilities that Melo does not, with his combination of athleticism, ability to be a lock down defender, versatility from SG-PF with the skills to penetrate off the dribble and finish/POST UP/ and RISE UP for a jump shot in the midrange,

Like Melo, Rudy Gay is very talented and has to elevate his overall game, DEFENSE, learn to create for his team, and learn to play OFF THE BALL
In my opinion, if Rudy Gay was in NYK instead of Melo, in my opinion, he would be able to put up similar numbers that Melo does because of the fact that Woodson gives the freedom to Melo with

ISO plays - OUR PG literally just brings up the ball then passes to Melo 85% of the time, instead of actually creating/attacking/breaking down the opponents DEF, and giving the ball to whoever is open, hot, or has the mismatch

Green light - *he can get his shot off easier than Melo because Gay is physically more skilled than Melo with his size/length/agility, athleticism, speed/quickness/handle, ability to rise up for a jump shot that not many can contest, ability to post up down low or mid range

OPPORTUNITIES - as the #1 option as the rest of the team spreads out the floor for him to score almost every play, willing to take 30 shots in a row, causing a lack of chemistry/ability to get in rhythm for role players

I am saying a lot of Melo's numbers are very misleading because the ball is in his hands a lot but he does not look to create like Lebron does or does have such abilities
Where Melo would constantly look to create STATs, Lebron/Durant/Paul George does not have ego issues and is looking to looking to make the "correct" play for the team

In the end, we all here are Knick fans but we have different opinions/perspectives on how the team should be utilized and what players to sign/trade for
One day, I do hope, we all can post here with much more respect to each other's opinions even when we don't agree with them
The bashing/disrespect/trolling is just a multiplied effect that is a chain reaction, never ending, and people will likely NEVER change their opinions anyway

RonRon wrote:

Papabear wrote:

RonRon wrote:

Papabear wrote:

RonRon wrote:Isola is a troll that gets paid to be one, I am sure plenty of NYK players want to kick his ass with the way he talks/tone/be littles players and the Knick's
While some get paid NOTHING on here to do the same, anyone wonder if these writers lurk inside here on UK.com
I think some do although they might not even post, they could just read the boards for inspiration

Papa Bear, it took some time, but you finally are seeing that The Knick's make questionable moves, welcome to the "DARK SIDE"
I know you bleed orange and blue, just like I do, but you use to see almost all the moves as positives for the franchise, defend the moves of the franchise, and get defensive when posters get negative about the moves they make

Now some players take it to the extreme, but not all do, some sincerely wish the best for the Knick's but just question don't agree with the moves that the franchise makes
With this post you are starting to question the franchise itself as you have every right to do so

Papabear Says

Hey Ron Ron! No NO No! I'm not on the Dark side yet TKF have not bit me on the neck yet.So I'm still in the lite but asking more questions and seeing clearly about Dolan and the way the Knicks machine runs. They really want to win but making money loyalty when you disagree comes before a title.

no, I am not putting you in the TFK Darkside, i meant a more grey area,
Where as back then you would be more PRO KNICKS no matter what they did, you would justify it, defend it, and believe it was for the better of the franchise
But now you see things with a little bit different perspective, questioning if the moves of the franchise are really for the better of the team or for other reasons

I know we have had our fair amount on different opinions/perspectives for the better of the team, in the past, and probably will continue to have some in the future
I am not as evil (anti Knicks) as you once thought I was, I put myself more in a grey area
In fact, I actually try to give examples on how I think we can improve the team by utilizing players/rotations differently or/and with trading players, and all for the better of the KNICKS, not individual players

Anyway, hope we can have more respectful debates and share our own 2 cent's in a appropriate manner, some we may agree on and some we might not
I am sorry for some of the words I have said to you, hope we can move along and continue to cheer for the same team

Papabear Says

I agree. And hell will break loose if Melo decides to up and leave the knicks. Two big mistakes the team make. 1 they could have gotten Amare for less with 4 years and 3 guaranteed and 4th partialed. 2 They should have never signed Tyson Chandler for that kind of money. We should have waited for Chris Paul. Amare really hurt bad. Over 20 million. Damn we could have gotten 3 damn good player for 20 million. And border line all-stars or all-stars.

Hey Papa Bear,

Where do you put me in your eyes?
Interested see where you label me, am in the "dark side" with TFK?

No, I don't always agree with the decisions management makes, head coaching decisions, roster and ways to acquire and keep assets/value for development and future uses in possible trades
In fact, most of the times, I am usually against most of the decisions that they make
There are times that I am completely wrong and sometimes I hit it right on the spot
I can't help it but I am always looking for ways in which I think could improve the TEAM and maximize the talents/roster on the Knicks
Just because a player is a Knick or is no longer a Knick, I won't praise them or bash them because of their team, I try to evaluate talent on my own
I am a basketball fan first then a Knicks' fan 2nd

But I consider myself a big Knick's fan which makes it very tough because disagree with many decisions they make, some of which are VERY simple like playing Lin when we need penetration, moving Melo to PF *in Dantoni's era*, if he wanted him to play the Point/Forward role to create for the team, and not at SF because we need to create mismatches in Dantoni's philosophy with speed/quickness/3pt shoot with spacing and penetration/ opening lanes for PnR, cuts, post up opportunities, and a lane to penetrate with a mobile PF to play Center

I post more negative posts about the team than positives because I feel that the franchise makes too many dumb moves, making it very hard to swallow because I think they could always be better than they actually were

I think I am somewhere in between a grey area, in the end, I look for many ways that I think could improve the Knicks with the way players are utilized/trades/signing players/rotations/a philosophy that fits and maximizes the talents/rotations of the roster

No, I did not like the trade for Melo, but I do think he is by far the Knick's best player, just not worth what we payed for and is NOT worth a max extension
I don't want to get in full detail about the trade for Melo but no team trades 4 starters, the cap space we gave Denver to save over 60million in salary/tax, with 1 1st round pick, 2 predicted high 2nd round picks that we acquired for David Lee on a struggling/rebuilding GS team *at the time*, and a swap of the 2016 pick when Melo could opt out next season and we could be a top 10 pick

Melo is a very good scorer but he is NOT the franchise LEGEND that Melo thinks he is
He isn't a leader by any means and that was why we signed Kidd with all the old guys like Sheed/Camby, to bring leadership instead of talent to go with leadership that we need
To help Melo's ego and be the super hero that Lin stole from him and (during Lin's run) the NYK fan's from around the world were more interested in Lin running the team than Melo

Melo is NOT a leader or ELITE player, he is a high volume scorer, and he should not be treated like a Lebron/Durant and even a more complete player like Paul George/Harden
Even Rudy Gay has abilities that Melo does not, with his combination of athleticism, ability to be a lock down defender, versatility from SG-PF with the skills to penetrate off the dribble and finish/POST UP/ and RISE UP for a jump shot in the midrange,

Like Melo, Rudy Gay is very talented and has to elevate his overall game, DEFENSE, learn to create for his team, and learn to play OFF THE BALL
In my opinion, if Rudy Gay was in NYK instead of Melo, in my opinion, he would be able to put up similar numbers that Melo does because of the fact that Woodson gives the freedom to Melo with

ISO plays - OUR PG literally just brings up the ball then passes to Melo 85% of the time, instead of actually creating/attacking/breaking down the opponents DEF, and giving the ball to whoever is open, hot, or has the mismatch

Green light - *he can get his shot off easier than Melo because Gay is physically more skilled than Melo with his size/length/agility, athleticism, speed/quickness/handle, ability to rise up for a jump shot that not many can contest, ability to post up down low or mid range

OPPORTUNITIES - as the #1 option as the rest of the team spreads out the floor for him to score almost every play, willing to take 30 shots in a row, causing a lack of chemistry/ability to get in rhythm for role players

I am saying a lot of Melo's numbers are very misleading because the ball is in his hands a lot but he does not look to create like Lebron does or does have such abilities
Where Melo would constantly look to create STATs, Lebron/Durant/Paul George does not have ego issues and is looking to looking to make the "correct" play for the team

In the end, we all here are Knick fans but we have different opinions/perspectives on how the team should be utilized and what players to sign/trade for
One day, I do hope, we all can post here with much more respect to each other's opinions even when we don't agree with them
The bashing/disrespect/trolling is just a multiplied effect that is a chain reaction, never ending, and people will likely NEVER change their opinions anyway

Papabear Says

There are thing that I don't agree with you on but you have your opinion. No you are not in TKF's league. Here's why. TKF's have an emotional hate for some Knicks and the hate is so emotional that he really can't say a positive thing without adding a Melo like dig at the end of the sentance. Now for you let me say this Melo is not LeBron and he never will be so why do you keep comparing him. you may not like him but every team in the NBA will be looking to sign him. WHY? Because he is a very good player and one of the top 10 in the NBA. You aught to be glad we have him. I do believe that Amare and Melo can play together but Amare's old team got it right. They knew he couldn't last but so long. All that jumping on his knees will have wear and tear. In 2 years you will see LeBrons body and knees start to break down. LeBron has a big body and all that high jumping will have wear and tear on his body. The only way not for that to happen is a little dear anthers in his soup.

Vmart wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

playa2 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:I try to check in on the free agent tracker on nba.com. There is only one free agent that an opinion is written on out of all of the guys on there and it is Cope. It says after his name, Pacers bolster their bench with Knicks Copeland. Unbelievable. There have been some huge moves in free agency and all that is mentioned is contract length etc for every guy except for the one player that left the Knicks.

And you think we are trying to win by any means necessary ? We let go a guy who could have helped us, that explains itself.

My point wasn't about letting go of Cope. It was about how the Knicks are treated by the media or in this case the staff at nba.com. Some really big names moved to other teams in free agency. The moves aren't judged or praised and the former team isn't mentioned. I know cope is beloved here but if you are going to choose one free agent signing to praise and mention the former team wouldn't you pick someone else? Dwight Howard, josh smith, monta Ellis, al Jefferson ... It bothers and surprises me that out of all the moves this is the move where a team gets praised.

Because unlike other movers Cope was a cheap and very good move by the Pacers. The other moves that you stated were more money and Cope if given those players time you mentioned he produces close to or on par with them. This is a big loss by the Knicks. This is all Woody's fault.

Not signing Copeland was done on purpose in my opinion. Why would you let go of a player who wanted to stay for less money and you don't offer him contract ? Copeland was the best percentage shooter on the team. This is Melo's team and nobody without a big name can shine as a fan favorite.

foosballnick wrote:Ok, couple things.

The Dolan family owns Newsday. Isola works for a competitor and Im sure has been given maeprching orders to portray Dolan/Knicks in a negative light as often as possible. There is most likely also a bit of jealousy that he could be making the transition into broadcasting such as is being done by Hahn.

For those projecting Copeland's stats and claiming that his per 36 will make him a better player than guys like Josh Smith and Iggy.........can we actually see him over a longer period of time than 56 games in mostly a limited reserve role before we make such proclamations?

WOW, I'd like to have some of what THEY are smoking. Cope does one thing well...score. Smith can score, rebound and block shots. Iggy can defend, distribute a little and score...not as well as Cope but, not far behind. I don't see any GM taking Cope over those guys if the money was the same.