MS wrote:There is no reason to be positive with anything associated with this franchise.

We have an idiot for an owner, who will never sell. This is the guy that didn't want to give Marv Albert a raise, but will pay 11MM for a sexual harrassment lawsuit after the ******* he hired to be general manager cost him 200MM in revenue and made his franchise a laughing stock nationally. Our media policy is disgraceful. Our medical staff isn't first rate. We have hired and fired coaches like it's like they are the 15th guy filling out our roster.

I am all for being positive, however. Blowing our amnesty probably cost this team a shot at Paul and Howard this offseason. Houston managed to get two superstars, we have 1, explain how we managed to do that. We spent a decade to rebuild a team so they can win one playoff series. We are the fifth best team in the conference and our coach allows Melo and JR to kill all offensive production by isolating.

Melo will be paid like a supstar for five years when he opts out, but will only give you star production for two years. Love, Rondo, LA are not winning us a championship. We have never been and will be fiscally prudent. Our owner needs to murder the fans with increased ticket prices and parade names out there.

If we had a really good rookie, a big man that had a post move, a healthy forward, a solid backup point guard and some direction i would gladly be optimistic. But, be realistic.

Wow, little bit of sunshine, aren't you?

Only a Knicks fan can make the present sound so beautiful and still talk about optimism.

Its ok. This franchise has been severely mismanaged. But in the end its all about the games and we looked the best we have in decades last season. We may even sport a younger and better lineup next season.

Even in your last premise we may be there. Shumpert is a heck of a young player to have. THJ and Leslie may turn out to be good players. Our backup PG (either Brown or Tourre) could be this year's Copeland, which would be great. Healthy forward? Melo has been durable and will lead us again, this time with a deeper and recharged group.

I've been in the dark side of Knicks fandom and its just a depressing place. The Knicks will never be perfect but neither is the rest of the league. This year's version may be the best incarnation in terms of having a star in his prime, veteran help and young pieces to root for.

The glass is half... well, you decide how you see it.

Knicksfan wrote:

MS wrote:There is no reason to be positive with anything associated with this franchise.

We have an idiot for an owner, who will never sell. This is the guy that didn't want to give Marv Albert a raise, but will pay 11MM for a sexual harrassment lawsuit after the ******* he hired to be general manager cost him 200MM in revenue and made his franchise a laughing stock nationally. Our media policy is disgraceful. Our medical staff isn't first rate. We have hired and fired coaches like it's like they are the 15th guy filling out our roster.

I am all for being positive, however. Blowing our amnesty probably cost this team a shot at Paul and Howard this offseason. Houston managed to get two superstars, we have 1, explain how we managed to do that. We spent a decade to rebuild a team so they can win one playoff series. We are the fifth best team in the conference and our coach allows Melo and JR to kill all offensive production by isolating.

Melo will be paid like a supstar for five years when he opts out, but will only give you star production for two years. Love, Rondo, LA are not winning us a championship. We have never been and will be fiscally prudent. Our owner needs to murder the fans with increased ticket prices and parade names out there.

If we had a really good rookie, a big man that had a post move, a healthy forward, a solid backup point guard and some direction i would gladly be optimistic. But, be realistic.

Wow, little bit of sunshine, aren't you?

Only a Knicks fan can make the present sound so beautiful and still talk about optimism.

Its ok. This franchise has been severely mismanaged. But in the end its all about the games and we looked the best we have in decades last season. We may even sport a younger and better lineup next season.

Even in your last premise we may be there. Shumpert is a heck of a young player to have. THJ and Leslie may turn out to be good players. Our backup PG (either Brown or Tourre) could be this year's Copeland, which would be great. Healthy forward? Melo has been durable and will lead us again, this time with a deeper and recharged group.

I've been in the dark side of Knicks fandom and its just a depressing place. The Knicks will never be perfect but neither is the rest of the league. This year's version may be the best incarnation in terms of having a star in his prime, veteran help and young pieces to root for.

The glass is half... well, you decide how you see it.

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

MS wrote:There is no reason to be positive with anything associated with this franchise.

We have an idiot for an owner, who will never sell. This is the guy that didn't want to give Marv Albert a raise, but will pay 11MM for a sexual harrassment lawsuit after the ******* he hired to be general manager cost him 200MM in revenue and made his franchise a laughing stock nationally. Our media policy is disgraceful. Our medical staff isn't first rate. We have hired and fired coaches like it's like they are the 15th guy filling out our roster.

I am all for being positive, however. Blowing our amnesty probably cost this team a shot at Paul and Howard this offseason. Houston managed to get two superstars, we have 1, explain how we managed to do that. We spent a decade to rebuild a team so they can win one playoff series. We are the fifth best team in the conference and our coach allows Melo and JR to kill all offensive production by isolating.

Melo will be paid like a supstar for five years when he opts out, but will only give you star production for two years. Love, Rondo, LA are not winning us a championship. We have never been and will be fiscally prudent. Our owner needs to murder the fans with increased ticket prices and parade names out there.

If we had a really good rookie, a big man that had a post move, a healthy forward, a solid backup point guard and some direction i would gladly be optimistic. But, be realistic.

Wow, little bit of sunshine, aren't you?

Only a Knicks fan can make the present sound so beautiful and still talk about optimism.

Its ok. This franchise has been severely mismanaged. But in the end its all about the games and we looked the best we have in decades last season. We may even sport a younger and better lineup next season.

Even in your last premise we may be there. Shumpert is a heck of a young player to have. THJ and Leslie may turn out to be good players. Our backup PG (either Brown or Tourre) could be this year's Copeland, which would be great. Healthy forward? Melo has been durable and will lead us again, this time with a deeper and recharged group.

I've been in the dark side of Knicks fandom and its just a depressing place. The Knicks will never be perfect but neither is the rest of the league. This year's version may be the best incarnation in terms of having a star in his prime, veteran help and young pieces to root for.

The glass is half... well, you decide how you see it.

I agree there have been a lot of positives within the last year regarding the Knicks. However you cant blame some fans for fearing the worst. Over the past 13 years we have suffered through so many low points that the only way for that to vanish quickly is to at least get to teh finals

Getting to the finals is generally a process that teams go through. The Knicks won 50+ for the first time in a decade and a half, won the Atlantic for the first time since the early 90's I believe, and have kept their core intact. They also have added some young players, Artest and Bargs while moving out two guys that didn't do much of anything last year. I have to say that I do find it frustrating when the team makes gigantic strides in a positive direction so many fans complain that it isn't good enough or say finals or bust. The Knicks are in the same division as the Heat and this group might not ever get to the finals. That doesn't mean that the improvements they have made aren't real. In Grunwald's almost 3 years as gm he has traded one, compromised first round pick that is for three years down the road. My guess is Grunwald very well could be long gone 3 years from now if he doesn't keep the team competitive. Things are the best they have been at least since 2000 in my opinion. Lamenting missed opportunities for players when a team is so handicapped in what they can do salary wise is a waste of time in my opinion isn't related to the current administration. Also, now that the Knicks are competitive the chances of them getting a good rookie in the draft are pretty slim.

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

MS wrote:There is no reason to be positive with anything associated with this franchise.

We have an idiot for an owner, who will never sell. This is the guy that didn't want to give Marv Albert a raise, but will pay 11MM for a sexual harrassment lawsuit after the ******* he hired to be general manager cost him 200MM in revenue and made his franchise a laughing stock nationally. Our media policy is disgraceful. Our medical staff isn't first rate. We have hired and fired coaches like it's like they are the 15th guy filling out our roster.

I am all for being positive, however. Blowing our amnesty probably cost this team a shot at Paul and Howard this offseason. Houston managed to get two superstars, we have 1, explain how we managed to do that. We spent a decade to rebuild a team so they can win one playoff series. We are the fifth best team in the conference and our coach allows Melo and JR to kill all offensive production by isolating.

Melo will be paid like a supstar for five years when he opts out, but will only give you star production for two years. Love, Rondo, LA are not winning us a championship. We have never been and will be fiscally prudent. Our owner needs to murder the fans with increased ticket prices and parade names out there.

If we had a really good rookie, a big man that had a post move, a healthy forward, a solid backup point guard and some direction i would gladly be optimistic. But, be realistic.

Wow, little bit of sunshine, aren't you?

Only a Knicks fan can make the present sound so beautiful and still talk about optimism.

Its ok. This franchise has been severely mismanaged. But in the end its all about the games and we looked the best we have in decades last season. We may even sport a younger and better lineup next season.

Even in your last premise we may be there. Shumpert is a heck of a young player to have. THJ and Leslie may turn out to be good players. Our backup PG (either Brown or Tourre) could be this year's Copeland, which would be great. Healthy forward? Melo has been durable and will lead us again, this time with a deeper and recharged group.

I've been in the dark side of Knicks fandom and its just a depressing place. The Knicks will never be perfect but neither is the rest of the league. This year's version may be the best incarnation in terms of having a star in his prime, veteran help and young pieces to root for.

The glass is half... well, you decide how you see it.

I agree there have been a lot of positives within the last year regarding the Knicks. However you cant blame some fans for fearing the worst. Over the past 13 years we have suffered through so many low points that the only way for that to vanish quickly is to at least get to teh finals

Getting to the finals is generally a process that teams go through. The Knicks won 50+ for the first time in a decade and a half, won the Atlantic for the first time since the early 90's I believe, and have kept their core intact. They also have added some young players, Artest and Bargs while moving out two guys that didn't do much of anything last year. I have to say that I do find it frustrating when the team makes gigantic strides in a positive direction so many fans complain that it isn't good enough or say finals or bust. The Knicks are in the same division as the Heat and this group might not ever get to the finals. That doesn't mean that the improvements they have made aren't real. In Grunwald's almost 3 years as gm he has traded one, compromised first round pick that is for three years down the road. My guess is Grunwald very well could be long gone 3 years from now if he doesn't keep the team competitive. Things are the best they have been at least since 2000 in my opinion. Lamenting missed opportunities for players when a team is so handicapped in what they can do salary wise is a waste of time in my opinion isn't related to the current administration. Also, now that the Knicks are competitive the chances of them getting a good rookie in the draft are pretty slim.

At the same time i dont think its alright to question fans who have opinions that may not be 100% positive. I respect fans who are passionate of the Knicks BUT also arent afraid to be critical when they make questionable decisions. Also i think 54 wins is great and i loved teh regular season BUT im not satisfied with that especially since this is new york and we went 12 years without winning a playoff series. Now you may interpret that as hating but its actually having passion for the team to succeed and get better

I have no issues with fans questioning moves. I do have a hard time when some write about every move other teams make as positive and trash every move the Knicks make. I also am a bit perplexed by the complaints about how the team handles draft picks. That damage was done by the previous administrations so in a sense Grunwald's course for improving the team was set for him before he got the job. I also am pretty sure that any gm that is banking on late second round picks to build his team the right way won't last very long so the argument seems illogical to me.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

MS wrote:There is no reason to be positive with anything associated with this franchise.

We have an idiot for an owner, who will never sell. This is the guy that didn't want to give Marv Albert a raise, but will pay 11MM for a sexual harrassment lawsuit after the ******* he hired to be general manager cost him 200MM in revenue and made his franchise a laughing stock nationally. Our media policy is disgraceful. Our medical staff isn't first rate. We have hired and fired coaches like it's like they are the 15th guy filling out our roster.

I am all for being positive, however. Blowing our amnesty probably cost this team a shot at Paul and Howard this offseason. Houston managed to get two superstars, we have 1, explain how we managed to do that. We spent a decade to rebuild a team so they can win one playoff series. We are the fifth best team in the conference and our coach allows Melo and JR to kill all offensive production by isolating.

Melo will be paid like a supstar for five years when he opts out, but will only give you star production for two years. Love, Rondo, LA are not winning us a championship. We have never been and will be fiscally prudent. Our owner needs to murder the fans with increased ticket prices and parade names out there.

If we had a really good rookie, a big man that had a post move, a healthy forward, a solid backup point guard and some direction i would gladly be optimistic. But, be realistic.

Wow, little bit of sunshine, aren't you?

Only a Knicks fan can make the present sound so beautiful and still talk about optimism.

Its ok. This franchise has been severely mismanaged. But in the end its all about the games and we looked the best we have in decades last season. We may even sport a younger and better lineup next season.

Even in your last premise we may be there. Shumpert is a heck of a young player to have. THJ and Leslie may turn out to be good players. Our backup PG (either Brown or Tourre) could be this year's Copeland, which would be great. Healthy forward? Melo has been durable and will lead us again, this time with a deeper and recharged group.

I've been in the dark side of Knicks fandom and its just a depressing place. The Knicks will never be perfect but neither is the rest of the league. This year's version may be the best incarnation in terms of having a star in his prime, veteran help and young pieces to root for.

The glass is half... well, you decide how you see it.

I agree there have been a lot of positives within the last year regarding the Knicks. However you cant blame some fans for fearing the worst. Over the past 13 years we have suffered through so many low points that the only way for that to vanish quickly is to at least get to teh finals

Getting to the finals is generally a process that teams go through. The Knicks won 50+ for the first time in a decade and a half, won the Atlantic for the first time since the early 90's I believe, and have kept their core intact. They also have added some young players, Artest and Bargs while moving out two guys that didn't do much of anything last year. I have to say that I do find it frustrating when the team makes gigantic strides in a positive direction so many fans complain that it isn't good enough or say finals or bust. The Knicks are in the same division as the Heat and this group might not ever get to the finals. That doesn't mean that the improvements they have made aren't real. In Grunwald's almost 3 years as gm he has traded one, compromised first round pick that is for three years down the road. My guess is Grunwald very well could be long gone 3 years from now if he doesn't keep the team competitive. Things are the best they have been at least since 2000 in my opinion. Lamenting missed opportunities for players when a team is so handicapped in what they can do salary wise is a waste of time in my opinion isn't related to the current administration. Also, now that the Knicks are competitive the chances of them getting a good rookie in the draft are pretty slim.

At the same time i dont think its alright to question fans who have opinions that may not be 100% positive. I respect fans who are passionate of the Knicks BUT also arent afraid to be critical when they make questionable decisions. Also i think 54 wins is great and i loved teh regular season BUT im not satisfied with that especially since this is new york and we went 12 years without winning a playoff series. Now you may interpret that as hating but its actually having passion for the team to succeed and get better

I have no issues with fans questioning moves. I do have a hard time when some write about every move other teams make as positive and trash every move the Knicks make. I also am a bit perplexed by the complaints about how the team handles draft picks. That damage was done by the previous administrations so in a sense Grunwald's course for improving the team was set for him before he got the job. I also am pretty sure that any gm that is banking on late second round picks to build his team the right way won't last very long so the argument seems illogical to me.

Well to be fair i havent seen many fans who bashed every single move. Now if they are then i question their knowledge because the knicks have made some good moves. Prigioni resigning was great, Hardaway and leslie were solid draft picks, and artest could turn out to be a high reward pickup. Now both bargani and smith are "wait and see" which i think is fair

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knicksfan wrote:

MS wrote:There is no reason to be positive with anything associated with this franchise.

We have an idiot for an owner, who will never sell. This is the guy that didn't want to give Marv Albert a raise, but will pay 11MM for a sexual harrassment lawsuit after the ******* he hired to be general manager cost him 200MM in revenue and made his franchise a laughing stock nationally. Our media policy is disgraceful. Our medical staff isn't first rate. We have hired and fired coaches like it's like they are the 15th guy filling out our roster.

I am all for being positive, however. Blowing our amnesty probably cost this team a shot at Paul and Howard this offseason. Houston managed to get two superstars, we have 1, explain how we managed to do that. We spent a decade to rebuild a team so they can win one playoff series. We are the fifth best team in the conference and our coach allows Melo and JR to kill all offensive production by isolating.

Melo will be paid like a supstar for five years when he opts out, but will only give you star production for two years. Love, Rondo, LA are not winning us a championship. We have never been and will be fiscally prudent. Our owner needs to murder the fans with increased ticket prices and parade names out there.

If we had a really good rookie, a big man that had a post move, a healthy forward, a solid backup point guard and some direction i would gladly be optimistic. But, be realistic.

Wow, little bit of sunshine, aren't you?

Only a Knicks fan can make the present sound so beautiful and still talk about optimism.

Its ok. This franchise has been severely mismanaged. But in the end its all about the games and we looked the best we have in decades last season. We may even sport a younger and better lineup next season.

Even in your last premise we may be there. Shumpert is a heck of a young player to have. THJ and Leslie may turn out to be good players. Our backup PG (either Brown or Tourre) could be this year's Copeland, which would be great. Healthy forward? Melo has been durable and will lead us again, this time with a deeper and recharged group.

I've been in the dark side of Knicks fandom and its just a depressing place. The Knicks will never be perfect but neither is the rest of the league. This year's version may be the best incarnation in terms of having a star in his prime, veteran help and young pieces to root for.

The glass is half... well, you decide how you see it.

I agree there have been a lot of positives within the last year regarding the Knicks. However you cant blame some fans for fearing the worst. Over the past 13 years we have suffered through so many low points that the only way for that to vanish quickly is to at least get to teh finals

Getting to the finals is generally a process that teams go through. The Knicks won 50+ for the first time in a decade and a half, won the Atlantic for the first time since the early 90's I believe, and have kept their core intact. They also have added some young players, Artest and Bargs while moving out two guys that didn't do much of anything last year. I have to say that I do find it frustrating when the team makes gigantic strides in a positive direction so many fans complain that it isn't good enough or say finals or bust. The Knicks are in the same division as the Heat and this group might not ever get to the finals. That doesn't mean that the improvements they have made aren't real. In Grunwald's almost 3 years as gm he has traded one, compromised first round pick that is for three years down the road. My guess is Grunwald very well could be long gone 3 years from now if he doesn't keep the team competitive. Things are the best they have been at least since 2000 in my opinion. Lamenting missed opportunities for players when a team is so handicapped in what they can do salary wise is a waste of time in my opinion isn't related to the current administration. Also, now that the Knicks are competitive the chances of them getting a good rookie in the draft are pretty slim.

At the same time i dont think its alright to question fans who have opinions that may not be 100% positive. I respect fans who are passionate of the Knicks BUT also arent afraid to be critical when they make questionable decisions. Also i think 54 wins is great and i loved teh regular season BUT im not satisfied with that especially since this is new york and we went 12 years without winning a playoff series. Now you may interpret that as hating but its actually having passion for the team to succeed and get better

I have no issues with fans questioning moves. I do have a hard time when some write about every move other teams make as positive and trash every move the Knicks make. I also am a bit perplexed by the complaints about how the team handles draft picks. That damage was done by the previous administrations so in a sense Grunwald's course for improving the team was set for him before he got the job. I also am pretty sure that any gm that is banking on late second round picks to build his team the right way won't last very long so the argument seems illogical to me.

Well to be fair i havent seen many fans who bashed every single move. Now if they are then i question their knowledge because the knicks have made some good moves. Prigioni resigning was great, Hardaway and leslie were solid draft picks, and artest could turn out to be a high reward pickup. Now both bargani and smith are "wait and see" which i think is fair

One of the guys that did that hasn't been posting for a few days and he is always very prolific. This time of year he could be on vacation but I know he has been spoken to about what he was bringing to the forum.

Bonn1997 wrote:

franco12 wrote:its really sad that everyone is so focused on 2015. Unless we're getting Lebron at that point, I don't think there is a FA available that could turn this franchise into a championship contender.

You have to have a long-term outlook. Grab the next 23 year old star like James Harden if Lebron isn't available.

nyk4ever wrote:i don't get how people can get on this contract. the rhetoric is unbelievable - $5.57m for a "player with a checkered career and surgically repaired knee" but let's forget he just happened to average 18pts and 5rebs a game last year. i swear, some of these reporters really do think they are holier than thou...

beck didn't used to be so crazily harsh on the knicks as he is now. he's gotten much worse since the melo deal, but you do wonder if part of it, as with guys like isola, is the anger towards the clandestine approach towards the media that dolan has created.

jrodmc wrote:No matter the thread title, you can always count on the topic returning to "the Trade". We gave up too much for MeloSatan. Going on 4 years and counting. And still,
1) the yoots! [let's review, for the billionth time, where are they now?]
2) the draft picks! [Golden State and/or Denver burning up that first round with them, huh?]
3) cap space! [sorry it didn't work out, Amare; you're still a nice, but $100mil worth of weird guy]

Dolan's an idiot. IT was a mess. Marbles was a fail. Larry Brown was a bad joke. Stevie Franchise... We'll never win a chip..... Let's roll and mudbath in the misery. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Tiring.

If you count as you go through just this thread, you'll still see the true Sombers are less than six people.

I'm going to try the UK search function with +martin +"why are you guys fans"

jrodmc wrote:No matter the thread title, you can always count on the topic returning to "the Trade". We gave up too much for MeloSatan. Going on 4 years and counting. And still,
1) the yoots! [let's review, for the billionth time, where are they now?]
2) the draft picks! [Golden State and/or Denver burning up that first round with them, huh?]
3) cap space! [sorry it didn't work out, Amare; you're still a nice, but $100mil worth of weird guy]

Dolan's an idiot. IT was a mess. Marbles was a fail. Larry Brown was a bad joke. Stevie Franchise... We'll never win a chip..... Let's roll and mudbath in the misery. Lather, rinse, repeat.
Tiring.

If you count as you go through just this thread, you'll still see the true Sombers are less than six people.

I'm going to try the UK search function with +martin +"why are you guys fans"

If your talking instant gradification the trade was great for both teams.

How many picks we still owe them?

Picks don't matter for years.

Eddy been gone for how many years and yet Aldlridge and Noah are very relevant!

Melo is the best player of the trade. Never in dispute.

What was in dispute was how far can we go from mediocrity!

So what we got was a highly entertaining 54 win season with the leagues leading scorer and a season ending second round exit.

How far can you go from mediocrity if you won't tank (picks or cap space via Miami way) and you keep trading yoots and picks?

I think enough pay for the renovations and make a ton of money.