LivingLegend wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:Artest-- 1 year vet minimum
Aaron Brooks or Nate Robinson 2 years 3.8mm
Kenyon Martin or Tyrus Thomas 1 year vet minimum
Henry Sims 2+1 year rookie salary contract
Dwight Buycks 2+1 rookie minimum salary

I'm pretty much with you on this Briggs.

I have...

#1 Artest
#2 Nate
#3 T. Thomas (trust his ability to stay healthy over long season more than KMART) --- but also fine with KMART

If we got those 3 (Artest/Nate/Thomas) or (Artest/Nate/KMART) --- wow that would be nice.

I tend to think the Knicks may prefer Telfair on a minimum deal (only because of concerns with chemistry - enough balls to go round with Nate)

I cant guess who we will get but I think Artest would be a given if he passes waivers--he gives us a defender who really bothers guys like Lebron and Paul George. Id rather have Tyrus Thomas with Kmarts head--so thats a push and one of brooks Udirh(which i think is a zero chance) or Robinson. I wanted to sign a young PG as well but the only one that looked real good was scooped up. Were in a beggars game--we can laugh by saying lets imagine artest robinson and kamrt or whatever form it is--but lets face it those guys are way better than unknown entities. We can keep spots 13-15 for the unknown--but we need atleast three more guys who are known. People break Nates cahones and some warranted but at the end of the day was there any 1mm $ player who played better--the guy carried them pass the Nets they dont play the heat without robinson--he was a game changer--adding a Thomas Artest and a robinson thats not bad i dont know how its going to shake out but any which way with those names on the kNicks certainly is not a losing deal.

BRIGGS wrote:

3G4G wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

3G4G wrote:

BRIGGS wrote:

GustavBahler wrote:Nate and Metta on the same team. That would be something to see lol.

Right Metta Nate Kenyon--but they are tough tough guys play well and give swagger these guys are all vets--I cant see shanigans. Woudl this team last year beat Indiana with Metta and Nate? Maybe. I dont like putting so much on JR Smiths back--I dont want him taking 18 shots. We need more offense. Artes and either nate or Brooks would bring balance along with possibly Hardaway Jr. We were number 1 in iso last year and nunbger 30 in transition. We need more ball movement and more scoring balance.

This is why I think you're horrible at analyzing a team and often times players in general....

No this team doesn't need more offense. I think out of fear how this team is coached and managed it dictates what you're looking for in a player... instead of looking at how the game should be played in general. If we brought in players that actually filled our biggest needs, it more than likely forces the hand of how we play.

So no I don't want to bring in Nate and Bargnani and Delfino and Martell Webster so it stops Smith and Melo from hoisting up 25fga in a game at 40 PACENT.

What I want is to bring in players like Carl Landry and Luke Ridnour and Earl Clark and DeJaun Blair and Brandan Wright and James Johnson and Beno Udrich who play the game the right way. Who do all the little things the team needs, rebounding, on court direction, toughness, youth, leadership.

Enough with salivating offensive players. If Smith has matured and Melo is really hungry and it's his time, and Shumpert is fully recovered and Paul George squared, and Felton is a heart of bargain, and Bargnani is restored to vigor.... then we don't need anymore offensive players.

These kinds of posts are incredulous. You say Carl Landry and he just signed for 8mma year. You were talkking about Monta Ellis--hes going to make 10mma a year. Udirh Blair and Wright will make 2-3 times what we can pay them. Luke Ridnour is under contract and was just traded to Milwaukee. Please do some homework and get back to me. Im talking vet minimum and being realistic about it. three vets one PG one big one wing defender. two younger guys one PG one big rookie contracts that extend out to our next FA period. I cant say Im right or wrong but Metta and lets say Tyrus Thomas and Aaaron Brooks for 4mm $ is not bad. I do not even think nate will take less--but I would also take nate for 1.8mm right now beggars are not exactly choosers.

I did not want Monta Ellis and I knew we had no shot at Landry.... "this summer".

I wanted Landry when Billups got amnestied. I did not want to use our $15mil in cap exclusively on Tyson Chandler. I wanted 2 players at least with the cap space. I'm referring to a general model of who to look at season to season as players become available.

I wanted Clark before he went to the Lakers.

I wanted Blair as the 2nd additional pick in the 2009 draft.

I want Ridnour to rid ourselves of Felton's 2015 salary. Are you following the process here? Proactive forward thinking moves. Had we signed someone like Landry especially on 1 or 2 yr deals(which that's what he's received since we've signed Chandler) until this off-season....maybe we wouldn't have multiple threads 2-3pages or more on why we lost Chris "freakin" Copeland in free agency.

I mentioned Monta this off-season as a means to rebuff the idea we're planning for 2015..I still don't believe it although I could be wrong and if we are, whether we make good on the plan or not I'll be the first to post I was wrong. A couple seasons ago when Monta wasn't in Milwaukee I believed he was a similar offensive threat to Melo and most certainly bang for buck considering what both got paid. Make no mistake about it I did not want Monta here... unless it meant we were blowing things up and somehow by way of miraculous works it set us up for the brightest future we could ever imagine.

Now you made a thread I think a couple weeks back discussing how we do business and you were spot on there, but then when it comes down to the nitty gritty of fixing the fudge job you'll go almost down a similar path that got us here posting ideas and what ifs?

3G we have very little money to spend--when was the last time we had a chance to spend money Tyson Chandler two year ago--its impossible or a waste of time in my mind to believe a player worth 8mm will sign for 1mm. Like I said --Im not sure if Im right or wrong but I think the fundamental basis is sound

3 vets at 1.8 1.31.13 min and two rookie contracts 475X3 for a PG and a C. With what is left--having Metta Kenyon and nate or Brooks for a total of 4mm and then geting a 7 foot 260 pound rookie C and a 6-3 rookie PG well I think that would be my blueprint. We cant signb a Carl Landry--we must find our own. The way to do that is signing promising young players like Sims and Buycks to 2-3 years scaled rookie contracts with team options like the Rockets and Spurs do. If they workout great if not its a non issue.

Briggs, what I think 3g is saying is that we are always in position to have no money to spend, because of the horrible moves we make.. for the record, both 3g and I were talking about getting multiple players like landry and others to sign instead of giving chandler all of that money. I know for sure 3g didn't like the chandler signing at all..

we are never in position it seems to get guys like Ak47 for cheap, or the next player for cheap. we are always in position to overpay, overspend and then try to hype up bad moves, because we were forced into a corner..

The only reason why Bargnani is here is because we had very little room to do anything else, because of a series of bad prior moves.. but when those moves were called out then, those who did so,were labeled haters and complainers..

such a vicious cycle..

I wonder if Grunweld has something up his sleeve with the 3m trade exception that we can use EVERY YEAR or if he is saving it to purchase a pick for next summer's draft in 2014

RonRon wrote:With no draft picks in next summers draft at all, EXCEPT KINGS 2nd round pick TOP 55 protected

I wonder if Grunweld has something up his sleeve with the 3m trade exception that we can use EVERY YEAR or if he is saving it to purchase a pick for next summer's draft in 2014

Next offseason, everyone's already locked up- we then have the $3mil on top of that to add to the roster. This offseason was tricky because we had to re-sign Priggs, JR etc, so it meant we had to spend our scant resources just trying to stay pat. Then in 2015 we have cap space galore! We're in a pretty good spot.

smackeddog wrote:

RonRon wrote:With no draft picks in next summers draft at all, EXCEPT KINGS 2nd round pick TOP 55 protected

I wonder if Grunweld has something up his sleeve with the 3m trade exception that we can use EVERY YEAR or if he is saving it to purchase a pick for next summer's draft in 2014

Next offseason, everyone's already locked up- we then have the $3mil on top of that to add to the roster. This offseason was tricky because we had to re-sign Priggs, JR etc, so it meant we had to spend our scant resources just trying to stay pat. Then in 2015 we have cap space galore! We're in a pretty good spot.

I agree, this was by far the most difficult summer we have given that all of our available resources needed to go to our free agents due to weird CBA rules.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

RonRon wrote:With no draft picks in next summers draft at all, EXCEPT KINGS 2nd round pick TOP 55 protected

I wonder if Grunweld has something up his sleeve with the 3m trade exception that we can use EVERY YEAR or if he is saving it to purchase a pick for next summer's draft in 2014

Next offseason, everyone's already locked up- we then have the $3mil on top of that to add to the roster. This offseason was tricky because we had to re-sign Priggs, JR etc, so it meant we had to spend our scant resources just trying to stay pat. Then in 2015 we have cap space galore! We're in a pretty good spot.

I agree, this was by far the most difficult summer we have given that all of our available resources needed to go to our free agents due to weird CBA rules.

This offseason has been a mixed bag. i liked the hardaway JR and leslie draft pickups. Both give us some youth and athlecticism. I am happy that prigs is back also he is in very good shape for a 35 year old unlike kidd. Not happy we gave JR 4 years because i cant trust him and not thrilled with the bargnani deal

It's been a decent offseason i believe. The Bargnani deal is good because we are adding the best player in the trade at the expense of very replaceable draft picks, as well as trading Novak who will absolutely be our most untradeable player down the line (when our 2015 cap space really counts.) I get that JR smith's deal is counterproductive in that regard, but he is good value for what we gave him and a 6th man candidate who brings what he offers will always be good value and tradeable for 6 mil per year. Bringing back Prig was a must, and Cope wasn't because of Bargnani. Potentially adding MWP and bringing back KMart would solidify a pretty good offseason.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

RonRon wrote:With no draft picks in next summers draft at all, EXCEPT KINGS 2nd round pick TOP 55 protected

I wonder if Grunweld has something up his sleeve with the 3m trade exception that we can use EVERY YEAR or if he is saving it to purchase a pick for next summer's draft in 2014

Next offseason, everyone's already locked up- we then have the $3mil on top of that to add to the roster. This offseason was tricky because we had to re-sign Priggs, JR etc, so it meant we had to spend our scant resources just trying to stay pat. Then in 2015 we have cap space galore! We're in a pretty good spot.

I agree, this was by far the most difficult summer we have given that all of our available resources needed to go to our free agents due to weird CBA rules.

This offseason has been a mixed bag. i liked the hardaway JR and leslie draft pickups. Both give us some youth and athlecticism. I am happy that prigs is back also he is in very good shape for a 35 year old unlike kidd. Not happy we gave JR 4 years because i cant trust him and not thrilled with the bargnani deal

It's been a decent offseason i believe. The Bargnani deal is good because we are adding the best player in the trade at the expense of very replaceable draft picks, as well as trading Novak who will absolutely be our most untradeable player down the line (when our 2015 cap space really counts.) I get that JR smith's deal is counterproductive in that regard, but he is good value for what we gave him and a 6th man candidate who brings what he offers will always be good value and tradeable for 6 mil per year. Bringing back Prig was a must, and Cope wasn't because of Bargnani. Potentially adding MWP and bringing back KMart would solidify a pretty good offseason.

Eh I would say average to be completely fair. bargnani has A LOT to prove because he really did let toronto down and that wont fly in new york. Also JR smith really let teh fans down in the playoffs after a great regular season. im actually thr biggest Knick fan out there but im also tough on players that dont give maximum effort and they do need to prove themselves

Honestly, if we somehow bag K-Mart, World Peace, and a decent Point(Aaron Brooks?), we've upgraded the roster with Bargnani, JR, Prigs, THJR, and Leslie already in tow.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

RonRon wrote:With no draft picks in next summers draft at all, EXCEPT KINGS 2nd round pick TOP 55 protected

I wonder if Grunweld has something up his sleeve with the 3m trade exception that we can use EVERY YEAR or if he is saving it to purchase a pick for next summer's draft in 2014

Next offseason, everyone's already locked up- we then have the $3mil on top of that to add to the roster. This offseason was tricky because we had to re-sign Priggs, JR etc, so it meant we had to spend our scant resources just trying to stay pat. Then in 2015 we have cap space galore! We're in a pretty good spot.

I agree, this was by far the most difficult summer we have given that all of our available resources needed to go to our free agents due to weird CBA rules.

This offseason has been a mixed bag. i liked the hardaway JR and leslie draft pickups. Both give us some youth and athlecticism. I am happy that prigs is back also he is in very good shape for a 35 year old unlike kidd. Not happy we gave JR 4 years because i cant trust him and not thrilled with the bargnani deal

It's been a decent offseason i believe. The Bargnani deal is good because we are adding the best player in the trade at the expense of very replaceable draft picks, as well as trading Novak who will absolutely be our most untradeable player down the line (when our 2015 cap space really counts.) I get that JR smith's deal is counterproductive in that regard, but he is good value for what we gave him and a 6th man candidate who brings what he offers will always be good value and tradeable for 6 mil per year. Bringing back Prig was a must, and Cope wasn't because of Bargnani. Potentially adding MWP and bringing back KMart would solidify a pretty good offseason.

Eh I would say average to be completely fair. bargnani has A LOT to prove because he really did let toronto down and that wont fly in new york. Also JR smith really let teh fans down in the playoffs after a great regular season. im actually thr biggest Knick fan out there but im also tough on players that dont give maximum effort and they do need to prove themselves

If you had any expectations of the offseason than i would say this has been average. However, considering most people thought it was going to be a lost offseason that consisted of getting everyone we could back (and losing a couple) and standing pat otherwise, its been a decent offseason. But i do agree on your point, a lot of question marks remain.

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

StarksEwing1 wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

RonRon wrote:With no draft picks in next summers draft at all, EXCEPT KINGS 2nd round pick TOP 55 protected

I wonder if Grunweld has something up his sleeve with the 3m trade exception that we can use EVERY YEAR or if he is saving it to purchase a pick for next summer's draft in 2014

Next offseason, everyone's already locked up- we then have the $3mil on top of that to add to the roster. This offseason was tricky because we had to re-sign Priggs, JR etc, so it meant we had to spend our scant resources just trying to stay pat. Then in 2015 we have cap space galore! We're in a pretty good spot.

I agree, this was by far the most difficult summer we have given that all of our available resources needed to go to our free agents due to weird CBA rules.

This offseason has been a mixed bag. i liked the hardaway JR and leslie draft pickups. Both give us some youth and athlecticism. I am happy that prigs is back also he is in very good shape for a 35 year old unlike kidd. Not happy we gave JR 4 years because i cant trust him and not thrilled with the bargnani deal

It's been a decent offseason i believe. The Bargnani deal is good because we are adding the best player in the trade at the expense of very replaceable draft picks, as well as trading Novak who will absolutely be our most untradeable player down the line (when our 2015 cap space really counts.) I get that JR smith's deal is counterproductive in that regard, but he is good value for what we gave him and a 6th man candidate who brings what he offers will always be good value and tradeable for 6 mil per year. Bringing back Prig was a must, and Cope wasn't because of Bargnani. Potentially adding MWP and bringing back KMart would solidify a pretty good offseason.

Eh I would say average to be completely fair. bargnani has A LOT to prove because he really did let toronto down and that wont fly in new york. Also JR smith really let teh fans down in the playoffs after a great regular season. im actually thr biggest Knick fan out there but im also tough on players that dont give maximum effort and they do need to prove themselves

If you had any expectations of the offseason than i would say this has been average. However, considering most people thought it was going to be a lost offseason that consisted of getting everyone we could back (and losing a couple) and standing pat otherwise, its been a decent offseason. But i do agree on your point, a lot of question marks remain.

Yeah i mean it hasnt been a bad offseason but considering the nets have had a tremendous offseason it does make it hard. Like i said Hardaway JR and leslie were good pickups, prigs was a must because his ability to move the ball, jr smith for 4 years is too much of a commitment to him im sorry but he is to unreliable. Bargnani is the biggest question mark

I agree that Pablo brings some intangibles like

leadership
TEAMPLAY
facilitating skills
had great chemistry with Copeland and players that know how to move well OFF THE BALL *which we don't have many off*
good hands

HOWEVER, he is 36 *end of his 3 year contract would be 39*
lacks speed/quickness/ability to penetrate,
defend any position
and is NOT an offensive threat outside of the 3point shot in which he would even have problems getting his shot off versus playoff/finals contenders

all these negatives are multiplied vs contenders and is even worse when teamed up with a non scoring threat like Tyson Chandler or a non shooting threat like CJ Leslie, or another poor defender like Amare

I am not blaming anything on Pablo but we had major priority weakness's last year that we have still not addressed
so the lineups/rotations that we put up all have major weakness's/flaw's in them, Pablo was not needed at the cost of our MINI MLE period!
He is a 3rd string PG, we currently don't even have a real starting PG or a 2nd string PG that could create for the team and defend his own position
At best, offer him a 2 year vet min with player option deal
I highly doubt he would get anything better on the court and financially, no need to outbid ourselves as we always do for players that hold no trade value

Think about it, Grunweld could convince players and their agents like, listen take a little less than your market value, and like JR Smith, you will get the PLAYING TIME and OPPORTUNITY to excel with your ability to penetrate/facilitate/and run a team, possibly even outplaying Felton *which is very reasonable*, and with a player option even get rewarded when we get the early bird rights like JR Smith has done, also could be a fan favorite and raise value like Jeremy Lin has with the support of NBA fans everywhere as a Knick

Darren Collison
Nate Robinson
Ben Udrih
Darrius Morris
Aaron Brooks
Will Bynum
Mo Williams
AJ Price
Pargo/Lucas/Patty Mills

Also that they would be starting next to Felton *like Kidd did* and/or could be the 2nd string PG, instead by signing Pablo, it is like handing over the starting PG role/2nd string PG role he played last season

And we all know how Woodson favors players and is VERY stubborn even though it is apparent his lineups/rotation/players are not efficient and capable of playing
No FA wants to be put in the doghouse like Copeland was while producing efficiently and improved/flourished in the late season run at PF/C and not even given minutes when it was apparent he was needed to pull Hibbert/West out of the paint

Also like Camby, who never actually got a chance to even show if he could contribute at a high level or not and there were times he looked like he could contribute well to me, while we needed a C that could rebound/block shots/defend

That was why I wanted to get another coach or at least a highly payed/respected assistant head coach that would tweak the system of a spread/ISO offense
Allowing players to flourish under a system not named Carmelo Anthony or JR Smith with 30 FG attempts each if they wanted and the coach had no problem with it

Like Ridnour who was just traded and it was apparent that Twolves would trade one of their PG's with

Rubio healthy this year
Ridnour *expiring*
JJ Barea
last year's 2nd round pick 6'6 combo guard Alex Shved

this year's draft picks in combo guards

Lorenzo Brown
Shabazz Muhammad

Right now, Dallas has 5 PG/SG and Combo Guards, so a trade would be coming, plus they have many SG and G/F's on their team as well

Monta Ellis
Calderon
Devin Harris
Shane Larkin
Gel Mekel

the trade with

New Orleans/Philly/Kings

left

Greviez Vasquez *triple double threat*
Isiah Thomas

a possibility with the picks we used for Andrea Bargnani and kept Copeland instead who actually has trade value and could be used as a future asset
For 3m, a PF/C that can spread the floor, hit 40% 3point shots in limited role, is very efficient and would be great value as a trade asset
Heck, with all the players/assets/picks/cap space above, moving Amare, Felton, Copeland, Iman *which cuts into our 2015 FA plans* is a possible

Instead, we outbid ourselves again EVERYTIME for players like Novak, Camby, Felton, Kidd, and now Prigs, which HAVE NO POSITIVE value that have peaked already
It simply is not money well spent, they are not future assets, and their ceiling/potential have maxed out already

Also drafting Tim Hardway JR, a SG, which is the position that have the most depth in and G/F's are the easiest to find in the league from anywhere from vet min to a little bit more from 1-7m

Again, I wonder if we could have traded Tyson Chandler during the draft, to clear salary space, and get multiple 2nd round picks in this DEEP DRAFT for *ROLE PLAYERS or players with good potential* If so, financially we would be able to use the full 5m MLE *possibly on 2 players*, 2m LLE, and with a large trade exemption to use in a future trade AFTER we use the exemptions to add quality players

If a team is willing to take Chandler and his 14m contract, I think we should do so, and target players like

Nate Robinson
Udrih
Patty Mills/Pargo/Lucas III
AJ Price
Darrius Morris

Dalembert

and keep Copeland, possibly trading him at the deadline

With multiple future 2nd picks and players that have been drafted like Muscula, *Olynik's looks almost untouchable now*, and young players
Former DPOY still might hold value in the league but everyone knows that he is overpaid

Nate Robinson and JR Smith on the same team would be Isiah-level of awfulness.