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The real question is can Bargnani be our 2nd scorer?
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misterearl
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7/2/2013  8:42 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/2/2013  8:54 PM
When Vince Lombardi pushed players too hard, it was cool.

Mike Woodson pushing players is a fault.

GustavBahler wrote:
I also worry about Woodson and his propensity to push players past their limits. Relying on Bargs too much could hurt us by the time the playoffs come around.

If you do not push players past their limits, then a coach is labelled "too soft."

why do players become complacent?

It's the coaches job to prod, push, irritate and piss them off. If Mike Woodson can transform the petulant JR Smith into Sixth Man of the Year, he just might have a positive effect on the number one draft selection as a complimentary scoring option to Melo.

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GustavBahler
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7/2/2013  9:07 PM
misterearl wrote:When Vince Lombardi pushed players too hard, it was cool.

Mike Woodson pushing players is a fault.

GustavBahler wrote:
I also worry about Woodson and his propensity to push players past their limits. Relying on Bargs too much could hurt us by the time the playoffs come around.

If you do not push players past their limits, then a coach is labelled "too soft."

why do players become complacent?

It's the coaches job to prod, push, irritate and piss them off. If Mike Woodson can transform the petulant JR Smith into Sixth Man of the Year, he just might have a positive effect on the number one draft selection as a complimentary scoring option to Melo.

Lombardi didn't have an 82 game season to contend with including the playoffs. He also had a much deeper roster to work with. Football is also a much more violent sport, so powering through debilitating injuries is the norm in the NFL.

Kidd was brought in to mentor Lin and ended up starting, got too many minutes and was burnt out by playoff time. Stat was playing in the low twenties minutes wise, and as soon as started playing 30 minutes (or more) a game he was out for the rest of the regular season. I'm not talking about pushing young healthy players past their limits, but older players who need to have their minutes monitored so they can be counted on later in the season.

Apparently Woodson feels the same way now because he is talking about limiting Stat to 20 minutes a game next season. No shame in trying to keep older or injured players as healthy as possible for the playoffs. If there is a time to go all out, that would be it. Hope he sticks to the plan.

misterearl
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7/2/2013  9:14 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/2/2013  9:14 PM
Really?

GustavBahler wrote:
Apparently Woodson feels the same way now because he is talking about limiting Stat to 20 minutes a game next season. No shame in trying to keep older or injured players as healthy as possible for the playoffs. If there is a time to go all out, that would be it. Hope he sticks to the plan.

Exactly where is Woodson quoted as limiting Amare Stoudemire to 20 minutes per game?

gustav - really?

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nixluva
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7/2/2013  9:15 PM
Seems to me that what we're really talking about here is Grunwald bringing in some players who are worthy of minutes so Woodson can stretch his rotation. I think that's what Grunwald is trying to do. Some complain about adding Bargs but you have to try to add guys who you think can take some of the pressure off Melo. Melo is the one who gets stuck having to try and carry the team if we don't provide him with guys that can carry some of the load. I think the idea is that Bargs hasn't had "chronic" injuries needing surgery, so he should be healthy and capable of more minutes than STAT. Gotta take that chance.
GustavBahler
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7/2/2013  9:20 PM
misterearl wrote:Really?

GustavBahler wrote:
Apparently Woodson feels the same way now because he is talking about limiting Stat to 20 minutes a game next season. No shame in trying to keep older or injured players as healthy as possible for the playoffs. If there is a time to go all out, that would be it. Hope he sticks to the plan.

Exactly where is Woodson quoted as limiting Amare Stoudemire to 20 minutes per game?

gustav - really?

From Berman who quotes Stat's agent or I wouldn't have used the excerpt...


the Knicks have had renewed discussions on a stricter minutes restriction next season for Amar’e Stoudemire, according to his agent, Happy Walters.

The idea of a 20-minute nightly maximum with a prohibition on playing both ends of back-to-backs has been one of the ideas that has been discussed.

"I don’t think anything has been decided,’’ Walters told The Post yesterday. "The doctors are still talking about that. But he’s not going to play a ton of minutes.’’

misterearl
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7/2/2013  9:29 PM    LAST EDITED: 7/2/2013  9:30 PM
Apparently Woodson feels the same way now because he is talking about limiting Stat to 20 minutes a game next season.

GustavBahler - do you notice that Mike Woodson is not quoted anywhere in the piece?

or does that matter?

Berman is drawing his own assumptions to sell papers.

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GustavBahler
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7/2/2013  9:39 PM
misterearl wrote:GustavBahler - do you notice that Mike Woodson is not quoted anywhere in the piece?

or does that matter?

Berman is drawing his own assumptions to sell papers.

No earl, Berman is quoting Stat's agent who talked to the Knicks. This isn't one of Berman's made up trades, he actually has a source this time. Woodson is the head coach so it would be strange for him not to have been part of the discussion.

misterearl
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7/2/2013  9:49 PM
Gustav - what does Amare's agent have to do with your putting words in Mike Woodson's mouth?

from the same article

(Andrea Bargnani Plays Less Effective Next To Black Guards)

One source close to the Bargnani situation said he is best when he has another European on his squad, and fell apart when Jose Calderon was traded to the Pistons two years ago. The source said Bargnani is hopeful Spanish Leaguer Pablo Prigioni is re-signed by the Knicks.

- Marc Berman

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GustavBahler
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7/2/2013  9:57 PM
misterearl wrote:Gustav - what does Amare's agent have to do with your putting words in Mike Woodson's mouth?

from the same article

(Andrea Bargnani Plays Less Effective Next To Black Guards)

One source close to the Bargnani situation said he is best when he has another European on his squad, and fell apart when Jose Calderon was traded to the Pistons two years ago. The source said Bargnani is hopeful Spanish Leaguer Pablo Prigioni is re-signed by the Knicks.

- Marc Berman


My quote provides the source of the quote, Stat's agent, your quote is one of Berman's legendary "unnamed sources". As I said, Berman
actually naming a source was the only reason I quoted him.

Here is one from Grunwald from Newsday on the matter.

From Twitter:

Grunwald said Amar'e could be on a minutes restriction next year.
11:03 AM - 21 May 2013
misterearl
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7/2/2013  10:06 PM
Grunwald said it. Cool.

Apparently Woodson feels the same way now because he is talking about limiting Stat to 20 minutes a game next season.

Mike Woodson is laying on the beach someplace.

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GustavBahler
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7/2/2013  10:28 PM
misterearl wrote:Grunwald said it. Cool.

Apparently Woodson feels the same way now because he is talking about limiting Stat to 20 minutes a game next season.

Mike Woodson is laying on the beach someplace.

Woodson did limit Stat's minutes last season until that last stretch of 30 minutes or more (which did him in) so I'm not sure why you have a hard time believing that he would go the same route this season, hopefully with more success.

IronWillGiroud
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7/2/2013  10:34 PM
Nalod wrote:
I want to respond to this thread by maybe I should start another?

start another

look, gang:

i like bargs as a third option more than a second option.

The Will, check out the Official Home of Will's GameDay Art: http://tinyurl.com/thewillgameday
CrushAlot
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7/2/2013  10:35 PM
GustavBahler wrote:
misterearl wrote:Grunwald said it. Cool.

Apparently Woodson feels the same way now because he is talking about limiting Stat to 20 minutes a game next season.

Mike Woodson is laying on the beach someplace.

Woodson did limit Stat's minutes last season until that last stretch of 30 minutes or more (which did him in) so I'm not sure why you have a hard time believing that he would go the same route this season, hopefully with more success.

I believe that was a two game stretch. I don't expect Stat to play over 50 games even with the minute cap and it has nothing to do with his character or work ethic. I think his knees post surgery are done. My guess is the guy gets knee replacement in 5 years.
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VDesai
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7/2/2013  10:39 PM
2nd or 3rd scorer. Has the size to take pressure of Melo defending PFs and has the shooting ability to let Melo operate inside offensively and not clog the lane. He's another option- I think he can get 16-18 a game.
GustavBahler
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7/2/2013  10:49 PM
CrushAlot wrote:
GustavBahler wrote:
misterearl wrote:Grunwald said it. Cool.

Apparently Woodson feels the same way now because he is talking about limiting Stat to 20 minutes a game next season.

Mike Woodson is laying on the beach someplace.

Woodson did limit Stat's minutes last season until that last stretch of 30 minutes or more (which did him in) so I'm not sure why you have a hard time believing that he would go the same route this season, hopefully with more success.

I believe that was a two game stretch. I don't expect Stat to play over 50 games even with the minute cap and it has nothing to do with his character or work ethic. I think his knees post surgery are done. My guess is the guy gets knee replacement in 5 years.

Actually it was a three game stretch which was at or slightly above the limit Stat was placed on. Up until that point he was in the low twenties. The fact that Stat keeps coming back is a testament to his work ethic. I remember that story about how he had to lie face down on a bed for three weeks without moving after his eye surgery.

StarksEwing1
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7/2/2013  11:08 PM
Bargnani has a lot to prove to us IMO. I hope he becomes a good second option i honestly do. However you cant blame some fans for being a little hesistant. I mean obviously he is injury prone AND also he was know in Toronto as a little soft and effort is not always there. Like i said i hope he proves us wrong and finally puts it all together
yellowboy90
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7/2/2013  11:24 PM
ss a second fiddle to Bosh his shooting numbers were good. His synergy numbers look good before last year. It's all about role for Bargs, imo.
nixluva
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7/3/2013  12:44 AM
AB is not STAT in terms of his physical health. AB's injury was a contact injury and not something that any player themselves couldn't have happen.

I just hope that Woody has him being a big part of the offense, with more touches near the basket too. I think like STAT, AB would be successful in the post at 7-1. He doesn't have to always be out at the 3 point line. If they do that he could easily put up good efficient numbers. They've got to mix things up and not just have only Melo in the post, but switch things up so that defenses don't get used to us doing the same thing all the time.

GustavBahler
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7/3/2013  12:57 AM
nixluva wrote:AB is not STAT in terms of his physical health. AB's injury was a contact injury and not something that any player themselves couldn't have happen.

I just hope that Woody has him being a big part of the offense, with more touches near the basket too. I think like STAT, AB would be successful in the post at 7-1. He doesn't have to always be out at the 3 point line. If they do that he could easily put up good efficient numbers. They've got to mix things up and not just have only Melo in the post, but switch things up so that defenses don't get used to us doing the same thing all the time.

Reminds me of Camby his first time with the Knicks, would get hurt trying to make plays like that. Regardless of the nature of the injury I still wouldn't want to play Bargs too much because he has been injured for the better part of the last 2 seasons and you want to make sure that his body is up to whatever minutes he's given.

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7/3/2013  1:07 AM    LAST EDITED: 7/3/2013  1:13 AM
misterearl wrote:Gustav - what does Amare's agent have to do with your putting words in Mike Woodson's mouth?

from the same article

(Andrea Bargnani Plays Less Effective Next To Black Guards)

One source close to the Bargnani situation said he is best when he has another European on his squad, and fell apart when Jose Calderon was traded to the Pistons two years ago. The source said Bargnani is hopeful Spanish Leaguer Pablo Prigioni is re-signed by the Knicks.

- Marc Berman

Calderon was traded to the Pistons last year. I don't see how this could've affected Barg's play much since he was already hurt. Berman's quote seems off.

Always... always remember: Less is less. More is more. More is better and twice as much is good too. Not enough is bad, and too much is never enough except when it's just about right. - The Tick
The real question is can Bargnani be our 2nd scorer?

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