nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Teams have to find the right mix in order to keep continuity. Melo has been here 3 seasons...amare has been hurt and we've lacked a lot of things as a team. It is the teams duty to figure out what works, not sit on mediocre players hoping they eventually win.

Duncan has been in the league a long time. How many players has he played with? A **** load. There always will be players in and out of the equation. When guys fit, they stay until the knicks find that perfect mix. It could be found in the draft or free agency. It won't be found doing nothing.

you sound like you are equating melo with duncan.

Yes that is what I'm doing.

Melo is our centerpiece. Every move we make should be centered around him.

I don't understand why this is so hard for some Knick fans to come to grips with. MELO isn't going anywhere. He's the franchise right now. We need to spend our time trying to figure out what kind of players to surround him with that will give this team the best chance to succeed.

As for Melo being a black hole and too much ISO. That isn't entirely on him. There is a large part of this that has to do with who we put on the floor with him. If you have guys that can't create their own offense and some who DON'T EVEN WANT TO SHOOT then you will end up having to rely too much on Melo. We all know what is missing. More 2 way talent. We can't have guys who aren't able to score and defend filling up the rest of the roster. There will be young players who can give this team production on both ends. They may not be stars, but you want solid role players who can fill up the box score. Paul George, Nicolas Batum, Wilson Chandler and Kawhi Leonard types. I think there are guys similar to this tho maybe not as talented of course in this draft.

Then we also need to improve the quickness and scoring ability at PG. There will be PG's late in this draft who can help this team. They will have holes in their game, but if they have at least the speed and scoring ability we lack that should help.

It is a waste of time, that has been tried now for 11 seasons and it doesn't work, won't work IMO... you need a solid foundation to build on, he just isn't that at all!

EnySpree wrote:

tkf wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Teams have to find the right mix in order to keep continuity. Melo has been here 3 seasons...amare has been hurt and we've lacked a lot of things as a team. It is the teams duty to figure out what works, not sit on mediocre players hoping they eventually win.

Duncan has been in the league a long time. How many players has he played with? A **** load. There always will be players in and out of the equation. When guys fit, they stay until the knicks find that perfect mix. It could be found in the draft or free agency. It won't be found doing nothing.

you sound like you are equating melo with duncan.

Yes that is what I'm doing.

Melo is our centerpiece. Every move we make should be centered around him.

not if you are trying to win a ring enyspree..

So the solution is?

EnySpree wrote:

tkf wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Teams have to find the right mix in order to keep continuity. Melo has been here 3 seasons...amare has been hurt and we've lacked a lot of things as a team. It is the teams duty to figure out what works, not sit on mediocre players hoping they eventually win.

Duncan has been in the league a long time. How many players has he played with? A **** load. There always will be players in and out of the equation. When guys fit, they stay until the knicks find that perfect mix. It could be found in the draft or free agency. It won't be found doing nothing.

you sound like you are equating melo with duncan.

Yes that is what I'm doing.

Melo is our centerpiece. Every move we make should be centered around him.

not if you are trying to win a ring enyspree..

So the solution is?

start by taking off the melo-colored glasses... unload him and get back to the task of building a team the right way. ignore the people who complain that it is walsh's fault and stoudemire's fault-- that is irrelevant. you cannot succeed with melo as the main piece so even a healthy stoudemire distracts from this most core of core issues.

anything short of that and we will remain in lombo with shiny regular-season records that put us somewhere between 6th and 10th best team in the nba.

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Teams have to find the right mix in order to keep continuity. Melo has been here 3 seasons...amare has been hurt and we've lacked a lot of things as a team. It is the teams duty to figure out what works, not sit on mediocre players hoping they eventually win.

Duncan has been in the league a long time. How many players has he played with? A **** load. There always will be players in and out of the equation. When guys fit, they stay until the knicks find that perfect mix. It could be found in the draft or free agency. It won't be found doing nothing.

you sound like you are equating melo with duncan.

Yes that is what I'm doing.

Melo is our centerpiece. Every move we make should be centered around him.

I don't understand why this is so hard for some Knick fans to come to grips with. MELO isn't going anywhere. He's the franchise right now. We need to spend our time trying to figure out what kind of players to surround him with that will give this team the best chance to succeed.

As for Melo being a black hole and too much ISO. That isn't entirely on him. There is a large part of this that has to do with who we put on the floor with him. If you have guys that can't create their own offense and some who DON'T EVEN WANT TO SHOOT then you will end up having to rely too much on Melo. We all know what is missing. More 2 way talent. We can't have guys who aren't able to score and defend filling up the rest of the roster. There will be young players who can give this team production on both ends. They may not be stars, but you want solid role players who can fill up the box score. Paul George, Nicolas Batum, Wilson Chandler and Kawhi Leonard types. I think there are guys similar to this tho maybe not as talented of course in this draft.

Then we also need to improve the quickness and scoring ability at PG. There will be PG's late in this draft who can help this team. They will have holes in their game, but if they have at least the speed and scoring ability we lack that should help.

I understand your point, but the Idea of putting more scores around melo sounds a bit ridiculous, he's a volume scorer who can score from anywhere on the court, and on anyone on the court...make him the 2nd option and he'll be more efficient cause he's ungaurdable one on one..

Another way is to make melo more of a faciltator (MDA) if your going to win in the playoffs with him as your center piece..I think melo can play off of anybody cause he can score from anywhere, but there's very few who can play off of him because he shoots a lot..no one really expects the ball back, you cut after the pass, nothing, you rotate nothing.. He holds and shoots, sometimes he'll force a bail out pass and if his teammate is in the right place at the right time, he's lucky, half the time there not, there standing figuring is more likely to shoot why move..it's almost common sense when you think about it.. I KNOW YOU GUYS SEE IT ALL THE TIME.

The knicks don't need to keep revamping the roster (cause they have guys who can shoot and finish around the rim) they need to revamp MELO's game so he can make his teammates better..

Obviously the knicks are not the first team trying to put the right pieces around him, in fact, it's already been 10 yrs that teams are trying to put the right pieces around him... Doesn't matter who you put around him, I saw A I play passive around melo at times..MAKE HIM MAKE HIS TEAMMATES BETTER.

OK let me make myself a bit clearer. If you add more legit scoring talent to the Knicks then you DON'T HAVE TO RELY ON MELO. You can have him sit longer and take fewer shots. He ends up taking more shots cuz he is often the only one confident enough to demand the ball and take the shot. Just think back to how it was when we had Lin dominating the ball. If you have a player who isn't scared to drive or shoot and look Melo off then you can easily play with Melo. Billups wasn't afraid to look Melo off and that's why they got so far in Denver together.

The more talent you have the better for everyone. I don't want to have to rely on Melo and JR offense again. That is fools gold cuz you can't win in the playoffs with only 2 guys. We need more contributors at various positions. The mere fact that Cope isn't afraid to shoot is what leads to him being successful even while playing with Melo and JR. We need more players like that.

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Teams have to find the right mix in order to keep continuity. Melo has been here 3 seasons...amare has been hurt and we've lacked a lot of things as a team. It is the teams duty to figure out what works, not sit on mediocre players hoping they eventually win.

Duncan has been in the league a long time. How many players has he played with? A **** load. There always will be players in and out of the equation. When guys fit, they stay until the knicks find that perfect mix. It could be found in the draft or free agency. It won't be found doing nothing.

you sound like you are equating melo with duncan.

Yes that is what I'm doing.

Melo is our centerpiece. Every move we make should be centered around him.

I don't understand why this is so hard for some Knick fans to come to grips with. MELO isn't going anywhere. He's the franchise right now. We need to spend our time trying to figure out what kind of players to surround him with that will give this team the best chance to succeed.

As for Melo being a black hole and too much ISO. That isn't entirely on him. There is a large part of this that has to do with who we put on the floor with him. If you have guys that can't create their own offense and some who DON'T EVEN WANT TO SHOOT then you will end up having to rely too much on Melo. We all know what is missing. More 2 way talent. We can't have guys who aren't able to score and defend filling up the rest of the roster. There will be young players who can give this team production on both ends. They may not be stars, but you want solid role players who can fill up the box score. Paul George, Nicolas Batum, Wilson Chandler and Kawhi Leonard types. I think there are guys similar to this tho maybe not as talented of course in this draft.

Then we also need to improve the quickness and scoring ability at PG. There will be PG's late in this draft who can help this team. They will have holes in their game, but if they have at least the speed and scoring ability we lack that should help.

I understand your point, but the Idea of putting more scores around melo sounds a bit ridiculous, he's a volume scorer who can score from anywhere on the court, and on anyone on the court...make him the 2nd option and he'll be more efficient cause he's ungaurdable one on one..

Another way is to make melo more of a faciltator (MDA) if your going to win in the playoffs with him as your center piece..I think melo can play off of anybody cause he can score from anywhere, but there's very few who can play off of him because he shoots a lot..no one really expects the ball back, you cut after the pass, nothing, you rotate nothing.. He holds and shoots, sometimes he'll force a bail out pass and if his teammate is in the right place at the right time, he's lucky, half the time there not, there standing figuring is more likely to shoot why move..it's almost common sense when you think about it.. I KNOW YOU GUYS SEE IT ALL THE TIME.

The knicks don't need to keep revamping the roster (cause they have guys who can shoot and finish around the rim) they need to revamp MELO's game so he can make his teammates better..

Obviously the knicks are not the first team trying to put the right pieces around him, in fact, it's already been 10 yrs that teams are trying to put the right pieces around him... Doesn't matter who you put around him, I saw A I play passive around melo at times..MAKE HIM MAKE HIS TEAMMATES BETTER.

OK let me make myself a bit clearer. If you add more legit scoring talent to the Knicks then you DON'T HAVE TO RELY ON MELO. You can have him sit longer and take fewer shots. He ends up taking more shots cuz he is often the only one confident enough to demand the ball and take the shot. Just think back to how it was when we had Lin dominating the ball. If you have a player who isn't scared to drive or shoot and look Melo off then you can easily play with Melo. Billups wasn't afraid to look Melo off and that's why they got so far in Denver together.

The more talent you have the better for everyone. I don't want to have to rely on Melo and JR offense again. That is fools gold cuz you can't win in the playoffs with only 2 guys. We need more contributors at various positions. The mere fact that Cope isn't afraid to shoot is what leads to him being successful even while playing with Melo and JR. We need more players like that.

you need two-way players comprising your core-- everything else is window dressing. melo, jr, felton are not two-way players. chandler is not a two-way player. stoudemire is not a two-way player.

you need positive-sum players dominating your rotation. the knicks have zero-sum and negative-sum players.

adding scorers is a band-aid solution.

dk7th wrote:

nixluva wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

nixluva wrote:

EnySpree wrote:

dk7th wrote:

EnySpree wrote:Teams have to find the right mix in order to keep continuity. Melo has been here 3 seasons...amare has been hurt and we've lacked a lot of things as a team. It is the teams duty to figure out what works, not sit on mediocre players hoping they eventually win.

Duncan has been in the league a long time. How many players has he played with? A **** load. There always will be players in and out of the equation. When guys fit, they stay until the knicks find that perfect mix. It could be found in the draft or free agency. It won't be found doing nothing.

you sound like you are equating melo with duncan.

Yes that is what I'm doing.

Melo is our centerpiece. Every move we make should be centered around him.

I don't understand why this is so hard for some Knick fans to come to grips with. MELO isn't going anywhere. He's the franchise right now. We need to spend our time trying to figure out what kind of players to surround him with that will give this team the best chance to succeed.

As for Melo being a black hole and too much ISO. That isn't entirely on him. There is a large part of this that has to do with who we put on the floor with him. If you have guys that can't create their own offense and some who DON'T EVEN WANT TO SHOOT then you will end up having to rely too much on Melo. We all know what is missing. More 2 way talent. We can't have guys who aren't able to score and defend filling up the rest of the roster. There will be young players who can give this team production on both ends. They may not be stars, but you want solid role players who can fill up the box score. Paul George, Nicolas Batum, Wilson Chandler and Kawhi Leonard types. I think there are guys similar to this tho maybe not as talented of course in this draft.

Then we also need to improve the quickness and scoring ability at PG. There will be PG's late in this draft who can help this team. They will have holes in their game, but if they have at least the speed and scoring ability we lack that should help.

I understand your point, but the Idea of putting more scores around melo sounds a bit ridiculous, he's a volume scorer who can score from anywhere on the court, and on anyone on the court...make him the 2nd option and he'll be more efficient cause he's ungaurdable one on one..

Another way is to make melo more of a faciltator (MDA) if your going to win in the playoffs with him as your center piece..I think melo can play off of anybody cause he can score from anywhere, but there's very few who can play off of him because he shoots a lot..no one really expects the ball back, you cut after the pass, nothing, you rotate nothing.. He holds and shoots, sometimes he'll force a bail out pass and if his teammate is in the right place at the right time, he's lucky, half the time there not, there standing figuring is more likely to shoot why move..it's almost common sense when you think about it.. I KNOW YOU GUYS SEE IT ALL THE TIME.

The knicks don't need to keep revamping the roster (cause they have guys who can shoot and finish around the rim) they need to revamp MELO's game so he can make his teammates better..

Obviously the knicks are not the first team trying to put the right pieces around him, in fact, it's already been 10 yrs that teams are trying to put the right pieces around him... Doesn't matter who you put around him, I saw A I play passive around melo at times..MAKE HIM MAKE HIS TEAMMATES BETTER.

OK let me make myself a bit clearer. If you add more legit scoring talent to the Knicks then you DON'T HAVE TO RELY ON MELO. You can have him sit longer and take fewer shots. He ends up taking more shots cuz he is often the only one confident enough to demand the ball and take the shot. Just think back to how it was when we had Lin dominating the ball. If you have a player who isn't scared to drive or shoot and look Melo off then you can easily play with Melo. Billups wasn't afraid to look Melo off and that's why they got so far in Denver together.

The more talent you have the better for everyone. I don't want to have to rely on Melo and JR offense again. That is fools gold cuz you can't win in the playoffs with only 2 guys. We need more contributors at various positions. The mere fact that Cope isn't afraid to shoot is what leads to him being successful even while playing with Melo and JR. We need more players like that.

you need two-way players comprising your core-- everything else is window dressing. melo, jr, felton are not two-way players. chandler is not a two-way player. stoudemire is not a two-way player.

you need positive-sum players dominating your rotation. the knicks have zero-sum and negative-sum players.

adding scorers is a band-aid solution.

I made the point in this thread that I want 2 WAY players. Saying I want scorers doesn't mean I want them to ONLY be scorers. Right now we had too many guys out there not looking to shoot. Shump, PRigs, Kidd, Tyson, KMart all would pass up shots too often. So of course I want guys that can defend AND SCORE.

http://www.basketball-reference.com/teams/DEN/2009.html

You need an actual leader (Billups)
They did NOT have another high usage low efficiency scorer (Iverson played 3 games for them, JR Smith almost shot 45% for them that year)
Plenty of high efficiency, excellent rebounders - Nene Hilario 7.8 Reb/G 60%FG, Chris Anderson 6.2 Reb/G 55%FG, Kenyon Martin 6 Reb/G 49%FG

So, as constructed the Knicks are missing a leader and 2 rebounders. It's NOT MISSING SCORING.

BTW, Leaders don't grow on trees. Most teams don't have any, including the Knicks.