DurzoBlint wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:The Head coaches job isn't about offensive or defensive systems. The head coaches job is about motivating players, managing personalities and in game adjustments. Woodson does a good job of 2 out of the 3 just needs to improve on making adjustments during the game. Offensive and defensive philosophies can be handled by assistant coaches.

that's what I have been saying as well. He's too good a motivator (we "overachieved under him) and only needs an offensive coordinator to help out or at the least advise him. Its not an unheard of concept in the NBA at all.

I'm not sure if you guys are blind or just being naive, you can rip MDA for lacking any kind of defensive system, but give woodson a pass for lacking anykind of offensive system..I can understand (a little bit) of the suspect rotations,That happens when you have a lot of vets on the roster, but we are not a great defensive team by any stretch. At least MDA has a great offensive mind, WHAT EXACTLY IS WOODSON GREAT AT..

how am I GIVING HIM A pass when I clearly stated that he NEEDS TO HIRE and offensive coordinator. In my world that means I AM holding him accountable and have suggested a REMEDY for his lack of offensive creativity. Therefore, I am neither blind nor naive as you suggested.

As to your last question, it has been answered in multiple posts here, some of them my own.

Who are they going to hire as a offensive coordinator, they had MDA and decided not to support him.

What the Knicks need to do is focus on getting a very good PG ONCE AND FOR ALL, no disrespect to felton (he's a 6th man IMO) but as long as woodson and melo are together, this topic will always come up..

MDA had the opposite flaw and I agree, he might have been canned prematurely but, he has NOTHING to do with the discussion because he isn't currently coaching us. MDA had the wrong ponies for his offense and like Woody, is too stuck in his ways to change. That was far from a perfect marriage (Woody and MDA) That said, it doesn't mean there aren't any (offensive coordinators) out there. I am not familiar enough with the leagues coaches to suggest anyone in particular.

Also, lets PLEASE NOT make this about Melo or players in general. This thread is about the COACH and, if you think he has no issues as we have spoken of, then why are you even posting??? Not saying your voice isn't valid, just not sure where your coming from.

I dont think the total season would have been better under Doc, he has shown he cannot overcome injuries to his squad and we had a ton of them.

Whether anyone think Doc is better than Woodson is only an opinion based on the roster each coach has had.

It won 54 games, first place, and a 2 seed.

Now some of you watching SAS and the groovy passing and thinking thats what we should do.

First off SAS can do this because they are big and will take you low first. Then when defense collapse they kick it out.

Do they have a Mooby? Nope. Im sure some of you would be happy to trade him, start over, what ever but the fact is he is here and thats what the owner wants. We have the leagues leading scorer which is an attraction as well.

2nd best option was JR.

What we got? In flow offense passing guys or high volume scorers?

If you wanted MDA, you keep him. You want a guy to adapt to what you got, that was woodson.

I thought he had the team player great most of the season. Knicks are not a great roster. Im not sure what some of you are looking for in the realm of reality?

arkrud wrote:Melo is Knicks, and Knicks are Melo.
Woody is just an excelent feet with Melo and Dolan. He will do what they want him to do.
All the rest of the roster is a coincedence. Whatever will be out there we will take.
There is no plan and no goals as we aleady get all we want - tickets are selling well, celebs are in the front row, melo to entertaine, JR a little side show. Time to relax and be heappy.

I'm actually reading full page soap box babies in cribs crying in threads, when they know it is what it is.

The Knicks are a company that makes money without winning anything.

What incentive do they have to change? fans aren't leaving, hell they aren't even the ones in the arena now, the Knicks pushed the fans away to the point they cant watch the games live anymore.

knicks1248 wrote:Woodson had a hands on when constructing this roster..So if it's not that good, what does that say about his moves..When you have a chance to build (or in his case) retool your roster, then you stand to take most of the heat when they fail and most of the credit when they have success. But there are to many posters given him credit for the regular season, then saying in the next sentence, we have a weak roster. A little old yes, weak no..To many battle tested players on this roster to go out in the way we did.

The teams that are currently in the finals, we handle them during the regular season, but no one (outside of knick fans)on earth believe they would make any noise in the playoffs.

They built this team to challenge the HEAT and clearly disregarded the BULLS and PACERS...

Tyson Melo Amare Shump, JR and Novak were on the roster prior to Woodson being the coach

knicks1248 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:The Head coaches job isn't about offensive or defensive systems. The head coaches job is about motivating players, managing personalities and in game adjustments. Woodson does a good job of 2 out of the 3 just needs to improve on making adjustments during the game. Offensive and defensive philosophies can be handled by assistant coaches.

that's what I have been saying as well. He's too good a motivator (we "overachieved under him) and only needs an offensive coordinator to help out or at the least advise him. Its not an unheard of concept in the NBA at all.

I'm not sure if you guys are blind or just being naive, you can rip MDA for lacking any kind of defensive system, but give woodson a pass for lacking anykind of offensive system..I can understand (a little bit) of the suspect rotations,That happens when you have a lot of vets on the roster, but we are not a great defensive team by any stretch. At least MDA has a great offensive mind, WHAT EXACTLY IS WOODSON GREAT AT..

I think I broke everything down in the first quoted post. Woodson has 2 good qualities that head coaches should have. The ability to motivate, and the ability to manage personalities, has pretty good leadership qualities as well in earning players respect. Woody needs to improve on his in game adjustments though. The job of the head coach isn't to be a great offensive mind. You can hire assistants that teach the same principals from MDA's offense if you wanted MDA's offense. You can't have your assistant coach be the biggest leader on the coaching staff though it has to come from the head coach. MDA wasn't/isn't that type of leader.

Nalod wrote:Im not going to hate on Melo but if your bashing Woodson for the offense then you have to look at the roster as its constructed and go with the strengths of it.

It won 54 games, first place, and a 2 seed.

Now some of you watching SAS and the groovy passing and thinking thats what we should do.

First off SAS can do this because they are big and will take you low first. Then when defense collapse they kick it out.

Do they have a Mooby? Nope. Im sure some of you would be happy to trade him, start over, what ever but the fact is he is here and thats what the owner wants. We have the leagues leading scorer which is an attraction as well.

2nd best option was JR.

What we got? In flow offense passing guys or high volume scorers?

If you wanted MDA, you keep him. You want a guy to adapt to what you got, that was woodson.

I thought he had the team player great most of the season. Knicks are not a great roster. Im not sure what some of you are looking for in the realm of reality?

dk7th wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

newyorknewyork wrote:The Head coaches job isn't about offensive or defensive systems. The head coaches job is about motivating players, managing personalities and in game adjustments. Woodson does a good job of 2 out of the 3 just needs to improve on making adjustments during the game. Offensive and defensive philosophies can be handled by assistant coaches.

that's what I have been saying as well. He's too good a motivator (we "overachieved under him) and only needs an offensive coordinator to help out or at the least advise him. Its not an unheard of concept in the NBA at all.

I'm not sure if you guys are blind or just being naive, you can rip MDA for lacking any kind of defensive system, but give woodson a pass for lacking anykind of offensive system..I can understand (a little bit) of the suspect rotations,That happens when you have a lot of vets on the roster, but we are not a great defensive team by any stretch. At least MDA has a great offensive mind, WHAT EXACTLY IS WOODSON GREAT AT..

I think I broke everything down in the first quoted post. Woodson has 2 good qualities that head coaches should have. The ability to motivate, and the ability to manage personalities, has pretty good leadership qualities as well in earning players respect. Woody needs to improve on his in game adjustments though. The job of the head coach isn't to be a great offensive mind. You can hire assistants that teach the same principals from MDA's offense if you wanted MDA's offense. You can't have your assistant coach be the biggest leader on the coaching staff though it has to come from the head coach. MDA wasn't/isn't that type of leader.

he was not hard enough on carmelo anthony from the beginning. you can't be afraid of the star. if the star is not coachable then there are going to be problems. melo is a legend in his own mind and is not interested in improving, be it getting in supreme condition ANMD MAINTAINING IT or working ten times harder to acquire real skills. he is NOT interested in improving!

instead woodson decides to kick novak and copeland around.

by this relationship alone he fails the "managing personalities" aspect.

knickscity wrote:

knicks1248 wrote:Woodson had a hands on when constructing this roster..So if it's not that good, what does that say about his moves..When you have a chance to build (or in his case) retool your roster, then you stand to take most of the heat when they fail and most of the credit when they have success. But there are to many posters given him credit for the regular season, then saying in the next sentence, we have a weak roster. A little old yes, weak no..To many battle tested players on this roster to go out in the way we did.

The teams that are currently in the finals, we handle them during the regular season, but no one (outside of knick fans)on earth believe they would make any noise in the playoffs.

They built this team to challenge the HEAT and clearly disregarded the BULLS and PACERS...

This team wasn't constructed by Woodson.

Tyson Melo Amare Shump, JR and Novak were on the roster prior to Woodson being the coach

Kidd, sheed, cope, prigs, kmart, kt, camby , Q, not to mention Both JR and Novak we FA last yr, and he co-signed to bring them back, so yes, he had a lot to do with putting this roster together..

He said first hand that he did not want a young roster like he had in ATLANTA, and constructed a veteran heavy team that crumbled one by one down the strtetch

CrushAlot wrote:

Nalod wrote:Im not going to hate on Melo but if your bashing Woodson for the offense then you have to look at the roster as its constructed and go with the strengths of it.

It won 54 games, first place, and a 2 seed.

Now some of you watching SAS and the groovy passing and thinking thats what we should do.

First off SAS can do this because they are big and will take you low first. Then when defense collapse they kick it out.

Do they have a Mooby? Nope. Im sure some of you would be happy to trade him, start over, what ever but the fact is he is here and thats what the owner wants. We have the leagues leading scorer which is an attraction as well.

2nd best option was JR.

What we got? In flow offense passing guys or high volume scorers?

If you wanted MDA, you keep him. You want a guy to adapt to what you got, that was woodson.

I thought he had the team player great most of the season. Knicks are not a great roster. Im not sure what some of you are looking for in the realm of reality?

I agree. I think Woodson did a really good job with the team he was given. The Heat and Spurs coaches are not getting criticized because they don't play undrafted rookie free agent guys on minimum contracts enough.

You mean like Danny Green and Chris Andersen?

The reason those guys don't get much criticism is because they're good coaches. They let their teams play to their strengths, even if those strengths aren't traditional basketball; they have strong offensive and defensive gameplans that use their players to the best of their abilities; they make good adjustments game to game if something isn't working; they don't fall back on terrible habits when the going gets tough; and they put their best players out there regardless of age or draft status.

Woody let the team down in the 1st game by not having them ready, which was a vestige from not finishing the Celtics series earlier. Woody didn't have a plan for how to attack the Pacers with the Knicks strengths, cuz he had ALREADY ABANDONED the Knicks style of play in the Celtics series. He had already slowed things down and gone ISO more as opposed to playing to the teams strengths, which included using his bench. When a teams PLAYERS speak out and say that they can't play slow and not have ball movement then what does that say about the coach who seems not to have made sure that the team played to their strengths? Woody failed to lead the team in the right direction and blaming anyone else is a farce.

Woody decided to keep playing Kidd and JR even when it was obvious that they should get fewer minutes. Why not use Prigs more since he was playing better? Why not use Shump more and Cope and Novack and give them a real chance to help this team? Why go away from your strength to go big when that isn't how you won games all year? Just far too many mistakes by this coach to be ignored.

Once again this is not about whether the Nicks won the series or not, but did Woody give them the best chance to win those games. As i've been saying even in a loss you can tell if a coach has done his best and gave his team it's best chance to win. Examples are Thibs, Vogel, Doc, Hollins and MJax. All of them did a better job than Woody. There's no comparison between the jobs they all did and Woody. Woody looked like a damn amateur in the playoffs against Doc and Vogel. Stop making this about the make up of the teams when this is purely a coaching debate. Did we get great coaching or sub par coaching? Woody had one of the worst playoff coaching performances.