AnubisADL wrote:

knickscity wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:the last thing the knicks need are more unprofessional employees or low-character employees. trouble is dolan is exactly like this: unprofessional and low-character. so he will attract these sorts of people inexorably. what compounds the issue is that dolan insists on having lackeys under him, lackeys like grunwald and woodson. it's got to be hard to do your job when you are in fear of dolan like grunwald is or in fear of carmelo anthony like woodson is. you can see the effect this has on the team.

if they are going to improve they will need to find people NOT like jr smith and NOT like michael beasley. grunwald is going to have to stand up to dolan when necessary (he did nothing about lin) and woodson is going to have to bench carmelo anthony when necessary, whether in response to bad shot selection and selfishness, or lousy defense, or general lack of conditioning. what kind of leader can you be if you cannot discipline all your players?

the culture of the franchise needs to become healthier. it's obviously not healthy right now and you don't want to alienate what quality people you happen to have, like shumpert and chandler.

Who are these players you suggest the Knicks get that will be "high character" professionals?

of the names i recognize i would look into acquiring blair. he played for popovich. austin daye has length and is young and he plays for lionel hollins.

tony allen same; he plays for hollins
marco bellinelli plays for thiboudeux
jj redick would be a good pickup for the knicks too.

You know dam well the Knicks could barely afford 1 of those players man. The Knicks cannot perform S&T's either.

As I figured, you dont have real solutions just pie in the sky fantasies.

BTW, Austin Daye is TRASH.

How come we can't afford Tony allen when his last deal was an mle deal? memphis may not want to pay him any more than that either.

Marco was basically a vet min signing

Those guys aren't leaving their current teams for pennies.

Blair is in the doghouse so he might be attainable. The others will cost more than they are worth.

You statement is that the Knicks could barely afford those guys.

Those guys signed previously for the same money we have.

I doubt they leave as well, but money wont be the reason why we cant get them.

AnubisADL wrote:

knickscity wrote:You statement is that the Knicks could barely afford those guys.

Those guys signed previously for the same money we have.

I doubt they leave as well, but money wont be the reason why we cant get them.

Guys sign for less when they are trying to get minutes to increase their stock.

Please see Nate Robinson, Belinelli, JR Smith, etc.

We aren't getting a SG for cheap to play behind Shumpert and JR Smith. We can get a PF probably since they know they would get plenty of minutes.

If Smith leaves then we become more appealing since their will be more minutes to go around.

dk7th wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:the last thing the knicks need are more unprofessional employees or low-character employees. trouble is dolan is exactly like this: unprofessional and low-character. so he will attract these sorts of people inexorably. what compounds the issue is that dolan insists on having lackeys under him, lackeys like grunwald and woodson. it's got to be hard to do your job when you are in fear of dolan like grunwald is or in fear of carmelo anthony like woodson is. you can see the effect this has on the team.

if they are going to improve they will need to find people NOT like jr smith and NOT like michael beasley. grunwald is going to have to stand up to dolan when necessary (he did nothing about lin) and woodson is going to have to bench carmelo anthony when necessary, whether in response to bad shot selection and selfishness, or lousy defense, or general lack of conditioning. what kind of leader can you be if you cannot discipline all your players?

the culture of the franchise needs to become healthier. it's obviously not healthy right now and you don't want to alienate what quality people you happen to have, like shumpert and chandler.

Who are these players you suggest the Knicks get that will be "high character" professionals?

of the names i recognize i would look into acquiring blair. he played for popovich. austin daye has length and is young and he plays for lionel hollins.

tony allen same; he plays for hollins
marco bellinelli plays for thiboudeux
jj redick would be a good pickup for the knicks too.

You know dam well the Knicks could barely afford 1 of those players man. The Knicks cannot perform S&T's either.

As I figured, you dont have real solutions just pie in the sky fantasies.

BTW, Austin Daye is TRASH.

this is where your pal grunwald earns his paycheck. the knicks need rebounders and defenders, and guys who bring professional attitudes to the team. people who don't need phony mentoring from a lousy leader like woodson. supercool bease is just another version of smiff the whiff. pure distraction and does not defend a lick.

the knicks are in deep doodoo thanks to february 2011 and summer 2012 and if the best they can do is shyte players like beasley well we know how we got here.

started like this.....

to go to this.....

to this .....

then this....

and this...

and way too much of this....

3G4G wrote:Can you start putting price tags on what you think these player's market value is? Because according to you, if anyone's name besides Beasley is mentioned we don't have a good shot of acquiring or aren't worth acquiring...

If so as you could very well be correct in your assessments...

Wouldn't this suggest those who said it would be extremely difficult to improve the team going forward as true? That means building around Carmelo or on the fly is extremely difficult..... a past known and proven to be true?

So either start putting market value price tags on guys outside of your only pick of the litter(Beasley or Mayo) or stop rebuffing every suggestion.

Why were we able to keep JR Smith? Because he is a fool.

No one wanted JR Smith before we picked him up. No one wanted Martin before we picked him up.

The Knicks are going to have to get guys other teams dont want.

Beasley is a fool as well. However, we need him to come off the bench and drop buckets.

Beasley and Smith have talent. They just lack the mental fortitude to take their game to the next level.

AnubisADL wrote:

3G4G wrote:Can you start putting price tags on what you think these player's market value is? Because according to you, if anyone's name besides Beasley is mentioned we don't have a good shot of acquiring or aren't worth acquiring...

If so as you could very well be correct in your assessments...

Wouldn't this suggest those who said it would be extremely difficult to improve the team going forward as true? That means building around Carmelo or on the fly is extremely difficult..... a past known and proven to be true?

So either start putting market value price tags on guys outside of your only pick of the litter(Beasley or Mayo) or stop rebuffing every suggestion.

Why were we able to keep JR Smith? Because he is a fool.

No one wanted JR Smith before we picked him up. No one wanted Martin before we picked him up.

The Knicks are going to have to get guys other teams dont want.

Beasley is a fool as well. However, we need him to come off the bench and drop buckets.

Beasley and Smith have talent. They just lack the mental fortitude to take their game to the next level.

AnubisADL wrote:

3G4G wrote:So our hopes of becoming championship legit contenders hinders on resigning J.R. Smith and trading for Beasley? Is this what you're trying to communicate?

We need more than that.

Im just saying the Knick don't have a draft pick next year so tanking is NOT an option. We need JR Smith + additional NBA quality talent not fringe NBA players.

Which will come at a high cost/high risk one of which you complained about in your previous posts. Can't communicate it both ways.

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:the last thing the knicks need are more unprofessional employees or low-character employees. trouble is dolan is exactly like this: unprofessional and low-character. so he will attract these sorts of people inexorably. what compounds the issue is that dolan insists on having lackeys under him, lackeys like grunwald and woodson. it's got to be hard to do your job when you are in fear of dolan like grunwald is or in fear of carmelo anthony like woodson is. you can see the effect this has on the team.

if they are going to improve they will need to find people NOT like jr smith and NOT like michael beasley. grunwald is going to have to stand up to dolan when necessary (he did nothing about lin) and woodson is going to have to bench carmelo anthony when necessary, whether in response to bad shot selection and selfishness, or lousy defense, or general lack of conditioning. what kind of leader can you be if you cannot discipline all your players?

the culture of the franchise needs to become healthier. it's obviously not healthy right now and you don't want to alienate what quality people you happen to have, like shumpert and chandler.

Who are these players you suggest the Knicks get that will be "high character" professionals?

of the names i recognize i would look into acquiring blair. he played for popovich. austin daye has length and is young and he plays for lionel hollins.

tony allen same; he plays for hollins
marco bellinelli plays for thiboudeux
jj redick would be a good pickup for the knicks too.

You know dam well the Knicks could barely afford 1 of those players man. The Knicks cannot perform S&T's either.

As I figured, you dont have real solutions just pie in the sky fantasies.

BTW, Austin Daye is TRASH.

this is where your pal grunwald earns his paycheck. the knicks need rebounders and defenders, and guys who bring professional attitudes to the team. people who don't need phony mentoring from a lousy leader like woodson. supercool bease is just another version of smiff the whiff. pure distraction and does not defend a lick.

the knicks are in deep doodoo thanks to february 2011 and summer 2012 and if the best they can do is shyte players like beasley well we know how we got here.

More like July 2010 preluded the other deals....

started like this.....

to go to this.....

to this .....

then this....

and this...

and way too much of this....

Amare had surgery in 2005. Knicks signed him in summer of 2010. This was what was known at the time.

It’s that “when healthy” qualifier that is the problem. When Stoudemire had microfracture surgery with the Suns in 2005, doctors warned the team that the procedure had probably given Stoudemire another six or seven years. That’s why the Suns were willing to let Stoudemire go back in the summer of ’10—they didn’t want to overpay for a guy whose knee came with an expiration date.

That expiration date is past. The best thing for all involved would be for Stoudemire to walk away.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2013-03-13/amare-stoudemire-injury-update-knicks-aching-knee-cba-wont-prevent-star-breakups
Knicks signed Amare to a max deal when doctors were saying he had 1-2 years left. You can't make this stuff up. There was only 1 star on the court in the playoffs.

I was never a fan of Donnie Walsh and especially the Amar'e signing but it may have been a necessary evil since Walsh backed us into a corner. We had no other options having disregarded the draft, traded away capable players and future draft picks. When the 2010 free agent well dried up, we had no other choice but to try and build with what was left e.g. Amar'e. His clout in the league and level head made him a solid gamble albeit a bet that needed hedging. We all knew something had to be wrong with him; why else would Phoenix let an elite 29 year old PF walk in a league where championship aspirations were defined by the caliber of PF a franchise had (Mavs with Dirk, KG with Boston, Gasol with LAL, Spurs with Duncan, etc.). We needed to protect ourselves by offering him a shorter contract and/or FRONT LOADING HIS DEAL TO MAKE HIM EASIER TO OFFLOAD when his body began breaking down. Walsh being the GM did none of that, which has lead to the situation we're in now. Its why I can't understand the blind allegiance people still have for the man with hindsight now available. Moving forward, we can only learn from his, Isiah's and Layden's mistakes. There are 3 tools for building a franchise: (1)trades (2) free agency and (3) the draft. Bad GM's like we have had only use one of those tools at the expense of others. Teams like the Spurs use all 3 and is why they can build a contender without spending a fortune like we do. I think the key to us unlocking all 3 tools/maximizing them is via the draft, where we can both bring in assets to trade and players that can contribute on the cheap. All in all, it'll lower how much we spend, which should free up money to sign worthwild free agents.

NardDogNation wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

knickscity wrote:

dk7th wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

dk7th wrote:the last thing the knicks need are more unprofessional employees or low-character employees. trouble is dolan is exactly like this: unprofessional and low-character. so he will attract these sorts of people inexorably. what compounds the issue is that dolan insists on having lackeys under him, lackeys like grunwald and woodson. it's got to be hard to do your job when you are in fear of dolan like grunwald is or in fear of carmelo anthony like woodson is. you can see the effect this has on the team.

if they are going to improve they will need to find people NOT like jr smith and NOT like michael beasley. grunwald is going to have to stand up to dolan when necessary (he did nothing about lin) and woodson is going to have to bench carmelo anthony when necessary, whether in response to bad shot selection and selfishness, or lousy defense, or general lack of conditioning. what kind of leader can you be if you cannot discipline all your players?

the culture of the franchise needs to become healthier. it's obviously not healthy right now and you don't want to alienate what quality people you happen to have, like shumpert and chandler.

Who are these players you suggest the Knicks get that will be "high character" professionals?

of the names i recognize i would look into acquiring blair. he played for popovich. austin daye has length and is young and he plays for lionel hollins.

tony allen same; he plays for hollins
marco bellinelli plays for thiboudeux
jj redick would be a good pickup for the knicks too.

You know dam well the Knicks could barely afford 1 of those players man. The Knicks cannot perform S&T's either.

As I figured, you dont have real solutions just pie in the sky fantasies.

BTW, Austin Daye is TRASH.

this is where your pal grunwald earns his paycheck. the knicks need rebounders and defenders, and guys who bring professional attitudes to the team. people who don't need phony mentoring from a lousy leader like woodson. supercool bease is just another version of smiff the whiff. pure distraction and does not defend a lick.

the knicks are in deep doodoo thanks to february 2011 and summer 2012 and if the best they can do is shyte players like beasley well we know how we got here.

More like July 2010 preluded the other deals....

started like this.....

to go to this.....

to this .....

then this....

and this...

and way too much of this....

Amare had surgery in 2005. Knicks signed him in summer of 2010. This was what was known at the time.

It’s that “when healthy” qualifier that is the problem. When Stoudemire had microfracture surgery with the Suns in 2005, doctors warned the team that the procedure had probably given Stoudemire another six or seven years. That’s why the Suns were willing to let Stoudemire go back in the summer of ’10—they didn’t want to overpay for a guy whose knee came with an expiration date.

That expiration date is past. The best thing for all involved would be for Stoudemire to walk away.

http://www.sportingnews.com/nba/story/2013-03-13/amare-stoudemire-injury-update-knicks-aching-knee-cba-wont-prevent-star-breakups
Knicks signed Amare to a max deal when doctors were saying he had 1-2 years left. You can't make this stuff up. There was only 1 star on the court in the playoffs.

I was never a fan of Donnie Walsh and especially the Amar'e signing but it may have been a necessary evil since Walsh backed us into a corner. We had no other options having disregarded the draft, traded away capable players and future draft picks. When the 2010 free agent well dried up, we had no other choice but to try and build with what was left e.g. Amar'e. His clout in the league and level head made him a solid gamble albeit a bet that needed hedging. We all knew something had to be wrong with him; why else would Phoenix let an elite 29 year old PF walk in a league where championship aspirations were defined by the caliber of PF a franchise had (Mavs with Dirk, KG with Boston, Gasol with LAL, Spurs with Duncan, etc.). We needed to protect ourselves by offering him a shorter contract and/or FRONT LOADING HIS DEAL TO MAKE HIM EASIER TO OFFLOAD when his body began breaking down. Walsh being the GM did none of that, which has lead to the situation we're in now. Its why I can't understand the blind allegiance people still have for the man with hindsight now available. Moving forward, we can only learn from his, Isiah's and Layden's mistakes. There are 3 tools for building a franchise: (1)trades (2) free agency and (3) the draft. Bad GM's like we have had only use one of those tools at the expense of others. Teams like the Spurs use all 3 and is why they can build a contender without spending a fortune like we do. I think the key to us unlocking all 3 tools/maximizing them is via the draft, where we can both bring in assets to trade and players that can contribute on the cheap. All in all, it'll lower how much we spend, which should free up money to sign worthwild free agents.

to elaborate, by the draft I am speaking generally about young talent e.g. acquiring Jeremy Lamb who has already been drafted. Teams regularly overvalue players with the "potential" tag attached. If we're able to showcase this talent, I think we'd have far better leverage in making trades for capable veterans/role players. This isn't to say that we should trade away all of our young talent but certainly some of whatever we're able to accumulate while moving forward.

knickscity wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:^^^^

I actually think the debridement of his Knees is what PHX was worried about and with those issues over he may can start back on his career as a lower minute guy. I know everyone is different but hopefully he can be like Kenyon.

The debridement is the prof his knees are shot, he missed quite a few games the year prior so what's there to clean up?

He'll never be anything above 20 minutes again.

Walsh knew Amare would be done by year three, made no sense guaranteeing two more years.

Just an awful move by an awful GM.