tkf wrote:

Dagger wrote:

tkf wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:A Healthy Melo is the best player on the floor for the 2 teams the problem is the next 5 best players on the floor are Pacers. To think they have a trade chip like Grainger not even playing. The Pacers are a damn good team

A healthy carmelo is the best volume scorer on the floor.. not best player... and I am glad people are seeing how good the pacers are.. I guess me and a few others weren't so crazy agreeing with granger about being the second best team in the east...

So become a pacers fan! Anyone that even watches basketball knows "volume scorer" is as back-handed a compliment as they come. How can you watch a team this way, wallowing in self-pity saying "we suck" "we suck" year after year while you put all of our opponents on a pedestal? How is that enjoyable for you? I don't mean for this to be an attack, I'm actually curious how being a Knicks fan is fun for you in any way. Melo is an extremely flawed player, I understand your distaste for him, but you actually derive joy from watching teams clobber the Knicks, it's very weird.

I am a NBA fan, a fan of basketball.. is that ok with you..... and who is wallowing in self pity? LOL.. I have watched this team suck for so many years.... I thought we were on the right path with walsh.. dolan messed that up, so as a fan I will just wait until this carmelo/JR smith era passes.... I don't enjoy watching them get clobbered, but I do enjoy watching franchises do things the right way, it gives me hope one day...

Again, what "right" path was Walsh on? Would you prefer to see a team centered around Amar'e Stoudemire and some of the bum players he acquired (Ronny Turiaf, Kelenna Azubuike, Anthony Randolph, Toney Douglas possibly Timofey Mozgov)? That wouldn't get us very far today. You also can't even use the "cap space" argument because every star player that changed teams since 2010 has been TRADED, which would have similarly gorged our team of the assets we lost in the Melo deal.

And I still don't understand this "Dolan made him do it..." nonsense. So everything that was "good" that happened to the team is solely attributed to Walsh but everything "bad" Donnie did "Dolan made him do it"? Its stuff like this that gives people the impression that you're not a Knick fan; because all you do is make convenient excuses for not liking the team which holds no real truth and maintain without ever really being able to defend the position. I'm not attacking you btw; just giving you my unbiased impression as someone that has no real history with you.

For the record, I actually think Paul George has rivaled Melo this playoffs and has all the tools/skills to be the better player moving forward. I wish the Knicks would've went the direction of building an actual team around guys like him too but Donnie Walsh consistently traded our picks (Jordan Hill, our 2011 pick, the 2012 swap, and a host of second round picks), took certain players too high in the draft(Gallo and Douglas, or traded away our assets that could net picks for bull**** (David Lee, Jamal Crawford, Zach Randolph and Nate Robinson). Imagine if he had the foresight to have traded David Lee to the Warriors on draft night/beforehand and gotten the 6th pick in the 2010 draft. We could've walked away with either Paul George OR Greg Monroe, who are both upgrades over Lee today but foresight/ingenuity was something Walsh had little of during his time here in New York.

3G4G wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Uptown wrote:

VCoug wrote:That's impossible. Everyone here was telling me that Melo's a top 2 or top 3 player in the league. I was told that anyone who who doesn't think Melo is a top 5 player is a hater/idiot/Net fan. What happened?

Either stop with all this hyperbole or find the quotes.....I think most agreed that Melo is top 10.

Calm down Frances, it's slight hyperbole. Obviously I'm not the only one but there were a whole hell of a lot of posters who were screaming and shouting that anyone who thought Melo's not on the same level and Lebron and Durant was just a hater.

If I went and found all the Melo vs Durant threads and posted them here wouldn't that count as fans thinking he's a Top 2-3 player in this league. I'm pretty sure most still feel Durant is a Top 5 lock and a Top 3 talent overall correct?

So no Coug your hyperbole wasn't too off....Uptown does this everytime and pretty much everytime you can show him otherwise.

Context is everything. Those types of comments were made when guys were trying to trade Carmelo for a draft pick in this draft, one of the weakest ever; pointing to his poor shooting performances as a reason why you can't build with him and why we should begin to rebuild. Those that disagreed with that sentiment, brought up the comparison with Durant to show that like Melo, he needs a Russell Westbrook to be as effective as people consider him to be.

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

Dagger wrote:

tkf wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:A Healthy Melo is the best player on the floor for the 2 teams the problem is the next 5 best players on the floor are Pacers. To think they have a trade chip like Grainger not even playing. The Pacers are a damn good team

A healthy carmelo is the best volume scorer on the floor.. not best player... and I am glad people are seeing how good the pacers are.. I guess me and a few others weren't so crazy agreeing with granger about being the second best team in the east...

So become a pacers fan! Anyone that even watches basketball knows "volume scorer" is as back-handed a compliment as they come. How can you watch a team this way, wallowing in self-pity saying "we suck" "we suck" year after year while you put all of our opponents on a pedestal? How is that enjoyable for you? I don't mean for this to be an attack, I'm actually curious how being a Knicks fan is fun for you in any way. Melo is an extremely flawed player, I understand your distaste for him, but you actually derive joy from watching teams clobber the Knicks, it's very weird.

I am a NBA fan, a fan of basketball.. is that ok with you..... and who is wallowing in self pity? LOL.. I have watched this team suck for so many years.... I thought we were on the right path with walsh.. dolan messed that up, so as a fan I will just wait until this carmelo/JR smith era passes.... I don't enjoy watching them get clobbered, but I do enjoy watching franchises do things the right way, it gives me hope one day...

Dolan didn't sign amare. He didn't trade away the teams lottery pick and the 2012 first round pick to clear cap space. Dolan didn't hire Mike D'Antoni. If reports are accurate, Dolan agreed to include Moz in the trade while Walsh was waiting to see if Denver blinked. I never saw Moz as a deal breaker. Never saw Walsh as getting the Knicks back on track after his coaching hire. Walsh helped the Knicks become more respectable and less dysfunctional after Isiah embarrassed the franchise.

I really didn't have a big problem with the amare signing, as amare was a very good player for us until his knees betrayed him which I thought would come later than sooner... but all we gave up was dolans cash, not a myriad of assets..

As far as claring cap space to go after lebron... well I guess some can justify giving yourself a shot at one of the best players in the past 20 years..... who knew that clown was colluding with T-mobile wade and that weird bosh dude...

Never saw Walsh as getting the Knicks back on track after his coaching hire.

so what you are saying is that the team with amare and the kids that were playing above .500 ball was not getting back on track? a young team with amare playing like a star, good young talent, picks and cap space? yea I forgot how good things were the years prior... smh

Walsh helped the Knicks become more respectable and less dysfunctional after Isiah embarrassed the franchise.

well isn't that part of what would be considered getting a team back on track?

Amare hasn't been the same since he hurt his back in warm ups in the playoffs his first year as a Knick. His knees were a known issue so the signing didn't make sense. Basically the Knicks got 1/2 a season of productive Amare for a max deal that kills the cap. They moved a lot of assets and let young guys walk to get there.

yet even after all of that we still had plenty of "assets" and cap space to work with.. what we did after that with that trade is what put our future at risk......

tkf wrote:so what you are saying is that the team with amare and the kids that were playing above .500 ball was not getting back on track? a young team with amare playing like a star, good young talent, picks and cap space? yea I forgot how good things were the years prior... smh

That's exactly what I would say. That team "with amare and the kids" wouldn't have even made the playoffs in year two because Amare, Gallo and Chandler all missed major time that season and Felton was too busy doing his best Charles Barkley impression. And I'm not sure what picks you're talking about either because if you remember correctly, Donnie Walsh traded our 2012 pick and we would've had to swap our 2011 pick with Houston if we were in the lottery. We would've sucked, with no light at the end of the tunnel, and not had picks too improve or any credible player to spend our cap space on. That was Walsh's legacy here if what you wanted came true, which was not all that unfamiliar to Isiah's tenure.

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

tkf wrote:

Dagger wrote:

tkf wrote:

Jmpasq wrote:A Healthy Melo is the best player on the floor for the 2 teams the problem is the next 5 best players on the floor are Pacers. To think they have a trade chip like Grainger not even playing. The Pacers are a damn good team

A healthy carmelo is the best volume scorer on the floor.. not best player... and I am glad people are seeing how good the pacers are.. I guess me and a few others weren't so crazy agreeing with granger about being the second best team in the east...

So become a pacers fan! Anyone that even watches basketball knows "volume scorer" is as back-handed a compliment as they come. How can you watch a team this way, wallowing in self-pity saying "we suck" "we suck" year after year while you put all of our opponents on a pedestal? How is that enjoyable for you? I don't mean for this to be an attack, I'm actually curious how being a Knicks fan is fun for you in any way. Melo is an extremely flawed player, I understand your distaste for him, but you actually derive joy from watching teams clobber the Knicks, it's very weird.

I am a NBA fan, a fan of basketball.. is that ok with you..... and who is wallowing in self pity? LOL.. I have watched this team suck for so many years.... I thought we were on the right path with walsh.. dolan messed that up, so as a fan I will just wait until this carmelo/JR smith era passes.... I don't enjoy watching them get clobbered, but I do enjoy watching franchises do things the right way, it gives me hope one day...

Dolan didn't sign amare. He didn't trade away the teams lottery pick and the 2012 first round pick to clear cap space. Dolan didn't hire Mike D'Antoni. If reports are accurate, Dolan agreed to include Moz in the trade while Walsh was waiting to see if Denver blinked. I never saw Moz as a deal breaker. Never saw Walsh as getting the Knicks back on track after his coaching hire. Walsh helped the Knicks become more respectable and less dysfunctional after Isiah embarrassed the franchise.

I really didn't have a big problem with the amare signing, as amare was a very good player for us until his knees betrayed him which I thought would come later than sooner... but all we gave up was dolans cash, not a myriad of assets..

As far as claring cap space to go after lebron... well I guess some can justify giving yourself a shot at one of the best players in the past 20 years..... who knew that clown was colluding with T-mobile wade and that weird bosh dude...

Never saw Walsh as getting the Knicks back on track after his coaching hire.

so what you are saying is that the team with amare and the kids that were playing above .500 ball was not getting back on track? a young team with amare playing like a star, good young talent, picks and cap space? yea I forgot how good things were the years prior... smh

Walsh helped the Knicks become more respectable and less dysfunctional after Isiah embarrassed the franchise.

well isn't that part of what would be considered getting a team back on track?

Amare hasn't been the same since he hurt his back in warm ups in the playoffs his first year as a Knick. His knees were a known issue so the signing didn't make sense. Basically the Knicks got 1/2 a season of productive Amare for a max deal that kills the cap. They moved a lot of assets and let young guys walk to get there.

There is some truth here although not totally true..... in that we gave up 2 Picks to Houston to clear additional cap space(which could have signed anyone). Turned out one of them was a swap that worked out in our favor. But if you count the 2012 1st and Jordan Hill who was a lottery pick that wasn't a good look at all for what turned out to be Amar'e at $100mil with no insurance.

If it's unfair to count Melo's last 2 season's of April as heroic then the same can be said for Amar'e's 2mos of incredible first yr under contract play.

We didn't sign these guys for these sample size results trying to make them monumental.

100 mil for 50 games of great play, and the rest subpar.

NardDogNation wrote:

3G4G wrote:

VCoug wrote:

Uptown wrote:

VCoug wrote:That's impossible. Everyone here was telling me that Melo's a top 2 or top 3 player in the league. I was told that anyone who who doesn't think Melo is a top 5 player is a hater/idiot/Net fan. What happened?

Either stop with all this hyperbole or find the quotes.....I think most agreed that Melo is top 10.

Calm down Frances, it's slight hyperbole. Obviously I'm not the only one but there were a whole hell of a lot of posters who were screaming and shouting that anyone who thought Melo's not on the same level and Lebron and Durant was just a hater.

If I went and found all the Melo vs Durant threads and posted them here wouldn't that count as fans thinking he's a Top 2-3 player in this league. I'm pretty sure most still feel Durant is a Top 5 lock and a Top 3 talent overall correct?

So no Coug your hyperbole wasn't too off....Uptown does this everytime and pretty much everytime you can show him otherwise.

Context is everything. Those types of comments were made when guys were trying to trade Carmelo for a draft pick in this draft, one of the weakest ever; pointing to his poor shooting performances as a reason why you can't build with him and why we should begin to rebuild. Those that disagreed with that sentiment, brought up the comparison with Durant to show that like Melo, he needs a Russell Westbrook to be as effective as people consider him to be.

No those weren't the discussions that were taking place. I've already looked at a few of those threads and have bumped them before. These were discussions months ago

holfresh wrote:

knickscity wrote:The Amare signing was terrible, i cant believe anyone is seriously trying to justify it.

100 mil for 50 games of great play, and the rest subpar.

Ill take subpar if he can stay on the court...

yeah its not that his play is sub-par its that the team can't gain any continuity with Amar'e going in and out for so long. Without his 18 million on the books the Knicks could be a totally different team. Hopefully the worst is behind him and these were the knee surgeries that Phx and NY knew were coming. He has a full off-season to get better and grow.

NardDogNation wrote:

3G4G wrote:

holfresh wrote:One thing tho..Melo dropped 39 on George and gets no respect around here...He was also getting by George in other games but ran into Hibbert..Lots of no calls there...

Melo also went 10-28fg for 36 PACENT against George and shot 43 PACENT overall in the series...held to 42 PACENT or lower in 4 of the 6 gms....law of averages rule out. Also if you count his 39pt performance as glorious..... then what does that say about the extent of his injury?

Melo actually shot 15-29 from the field that game, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. A quick trip to http://www.nba.com/playerfile/carmelo_anthony/ would clarify that pretty quickly. Melo actually did shoot 43% for the series but your boy toy, Paul George, actually shot 39% from the field; an inconvenient truth for you I would imagine.

George does more than just shoot. I've already stated in the past his offense needs to improve...but you have to acknowledge other things...such as

8reb/5ast/2stl across 2 series and as of now ECF his offense is coming along against one of the best defenders in all of basketball....his FG%/PPG/3pt% is up, while still playing solid D on that same great player.

3G4G wrote:

sidsanders wrote:

Clean wrote:People are quick to forget how unstopable Melo was at the end of the season. All it took was 3 injuries and 12 games before that memory was gone from existance.

his legacy will be defined by the post season for the most part. could be unfair.

Yet Paul George is defining his legacy now....Remember the Melo Legacy Threads that were started 2 times across 2 series and he performed poorly. To be honest even when Melo has been healthy he hasn't performed well in the playoffs as a Knick....

You kill me. Melo performed poorly, which for you is shooting the ball poorly, but George has performed admirably. There is a huge problem with that though.

George shot 40.6% from the field during his first two playoff series while Melo shot 40.6% over the same stretch and number of games (12).

George scored 19.1 ppg over that same stretch while Melo averaged 28.8ppg over the same stretch and number of games.

In a head to head against George, Melo averaged 7.8rpg and George averaged 7.0rpg.

Melo averaged 2.5 turnovers per game and George averaged 4.5.

Melo shot 86.8% from the free throw line while George shot just 60%.

All of this occurred with George averaging more than 4 minutes per game more than Melo and yet George is defining his legacy despite being below par to Melo on most metrics while Melo is Hitler. Makes sense.

NardDogNation wrote:

3G4G wrote:

NardDogNation wrote:

3G4G wrote:

holfresh wrote:One thing tho..Melo dropped 39 on George and gets no respect around here...He was also getting by George in other games but ran into Hibbert..Lots of no calls there...

Melo also went 10-28fg for 36 PACENT against George and shot 43 PACENT overall in the series...held to 42 PACENT or lower in 4 of the 6 gms....law of averages rule out. Also if you count his 39pt performance as glorious..... then what does that say about the extent of his injury?

Melo actually shot 15-29 from the field that game, so I'm not sure what you're talking about. A quick trip to http://www.nba.com/playerfile/carmelo_anthony/ would clarify that pretty quickly. Melo actually did shoot 43% for the series but your boy toy, Paul George, actually shot 39% from the field; an inconvenient truth for you I would imagine.

George does more than just shoot. I've already stated in the past his offense needs to improve...but you have to acknowledge other things...such as

8reb/5ast/2stl across 2 series and as of now ECF his offense is coming along against one of the best defenders in all of basketball....his FG%/PPG/3pt% is up, while still playing solid D on that same great player.

He's a solid defender and that's about the only aspect of the game that I can say he's better than Melo at, at the moment. Prior to the 2 games against the Heat though, Melo was thoroughly outperforming him.

And please, when you're wrong have the humility to acknowledge it and not deflect. I wasn't "acknowledging other things", just pointing out how you either were lying or made a human error. You were the one trying to dismiss Melo on a single point; I, however, was not trying to build a case for him on that single point.

For what Melo is known for he failed in the playoffs and has failed as a Knick...it centers only around SCORING....

As for George he is known to be an ALL-AROUND PLAYER and he is succeeding and has this post-season