Conclusion: Knicks have no choice on how to improve unless you want to wait out the next 2 years. They need to blow this up and trade Melo while his value is up. If not then be happy with similar results for the next 2 years.

Chandler to Denver for Wilson/Moz? or Iggy/Moz is probably the best deal we could hope for. Maybe PHX for dudley/gortat if we include a first 3MM and Chandler. We need some quick guys off the bench that have a first step to at least get an open shot for some folks. Unless that happens and Shumpert turns into a bonofide star it's over.

MS wrote:Listen this team is ****ed. He was going to get his money if he let things play out in denver and the knicks would have likely had the same team they do now without tyson and had Gallo and Wilson along with Felton to pair with Melo. All he needed was some additional talent around him. But, it was in his best interest to force a trade midseason and make it about him. Dwight Howard did the same thing. The Knicks will never make it out of the second round as long as melo is on the team. and the knicks will never make a move because he is a star and stars sell tickets and there is an illusion that the knicks can make noise. We sucked in the playoffs this year, struggled against boston and would have likely been out of the first round had rondo been healhty. There is limited to no talent out there to bring in.

Chandler to Denver for Wilson/Moz? or Iggy/Moz is probably the best deal we could hope for. Maybe PHX for dudley/gortat if we include a first 3MM and Chandler. We need some quick guys off the bench that have a first step to at least get an open shot for some folks. Unless that happens and Shumpert turns into a bonofide star it's over.

What Melo trade? I thought we signed him as a free agent? Why has the board never discussed this topic before today?!

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

MS wrote:Listen this team is ****ed. He was going to get his money if he let things play out in denver and the knicks would have likely had the same team they do now without tyson and had Gallo and Wilson along with Felton to pair with Melo. All he needed was some additional talent around him. But, it was in his best interest to force a trade midseason and make it about him. Dwight Howard did the same thing. The Knicks will never make it out of the second round as long as melo is on the team. and the knicks will never make a move because he is a star and stars sell tickets and there is an illusion that the knicks can make noise. We sucked in the playoffs this year, struggled against boston and would have likely been out of the first round had rondo been healhty. There is limited to no talent out there to bring in.

Chandler to Denver for Wilson/Moz? or Iggy/Moz is probably the best deal we could hope for. Maybe PHX for dudley/gortat if we include a first 3MM and Chandler. We need some quick guys off the bench that have a first step to at least get an open shot for some folks. Unless that happens and Shumpert turns into a bonofide star it's over.

What Melo trade? I thought we signed him as a free agent? Why has the board never discussed this topic before today?!

If melo really cared about the fans, he'd have forgone millions and risked much by being a FA!

Melo cares, just not enough to make stupid business decisions.

Fans still flock to MSG, love the Mooby, and he has endorsements!

We got out of the first round, his legacy is ok!

Wow, this forfeit tens of millions of dollars, and risk hundreds of millions of dollars if you get injured before you become a free agent thing sounds like a great idea- lots of nba players must do it, right?

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:

MS wrote:Listen this team is ****ed. He was going to get his money if he let things play out in denver and the knicks would have likely had the same team they do now without tyson and had Gallo and Wilson along with Felton to pair with Melo. All he needed was some additional talent around him. But, it was in his best interest to force a trade midseason and make it about him. Dwight Howard did the same thing. The Knicks will never make it out of the second round as long as melo is on the team. and the knicks will never make a move because he is a star and stars sell tickets and there is an illusion that the knicks can make noise. We sucked in the playoffs this year, struggled against boston and would have likely been out of the first round had rondo been healhty. There is limited to no talent out there to bring in.

Chandler to Denver for Wilson/Moz? or Iggy/Moz is probably the best deal we could hope for. Maybe PHX for dudley/gortat if we include a first 3MM and Chandler. We need some quick guys off the bench that have a first step to at least get an open shot for some folks. Unless that happens and Shumpert turns into a bonofide star it's over.

What Melo trade? I thought we signed him as a free agent? Why has the board never discussed this topic before today?!

If melo really cared about the fans, he'd have forgone millions and risked much by being a FA!

Melo cares, just not enough to make stupid business decisions.

Fans still flock to MSG, love the Mooby, and he has endorsements!

We got out of the first round, his legacy is ok!

Wow, this forfeit tens of millions of dollars, and risk hundreds of millions of dollars if you get injured before you become a free agent thing sounds like a great idea- lots of nba players must do it, right?

Just three I can think of!

Ha- and the irony is they got blasted by their former teams for leaving them with nothing! these nba players have it hard...

MS wrote:Listen this team is ****ed. He was going to get his money if he let things play out in denver and the knicks would have likely had the same team they do now without tyson and had Gallo and Wilson along with Felton to pair with Melo. All he needed was some additional talent around him. But, it was in his best interest to force a trade midseason and make it about him. Dwight Howard did the same thing. The Knicks will never make it out of the second round as long as melo is on the team. and the knicks will never make a move because he is a star and stars sell tickets and there is an illusion that the knicks can make noise. We sucked in the playoffs this year, struggled against boston and would have likely been out of the first round had rondo been healhty. There is limited to no talent out there to bring in.

Chandler to Denver for Wilson/Moz? or Iggy/Moz is probably the best deal we could hope for. Maybe PHX for dudley/gortat if we include a first 3MM and Chandler. We need some quick guys off the bench that have a first step to at least get an open shot for some folks. Unless that happens and Shumpert turns into a bonofide star it's over.

Bingo, carmelo wanted his money.. thats fine.. now he can lay in the bed he made.. simple.. in the end, the fans suffer.. who cares, carmelo has his money, dolan has his new toy..

and Shumpert turns into a bonofide star it's over.

I like shump a lot, but I don't really see a star player in this guy at all... what I would have like to see is he and Lin in the back court, they seemed to pair well and play off each other well.. that could have been a back court to build with for years.. then you go look for a athletic SF, who also defends.... who doesn't need a lot of shots, but can score.... now you are onto something.. could you imagine a team with Lin( and yes he needs improving, but does anyone doubt he will improve?) shumpert and a SF in the mold of a Paul George.... I certainly would be interested to see what the pelicans would want for him... just saying... you can always mix in veterans with these guys, but the point is to develop a unit that really compliments each other....

Nalod wrote:Shump has his moments and we are quick to assume it only gets better.

I think the upside is can he sustain it for longer periods.

Not sure what his upside is but I agree "Star" might not be in the cards. His procareer is marred with injury. It might not get better.

Melo has peaked, Chander as well. Amare we can only hope return to some form for some extended period.

Time to re-evaluate.

We have to be patient with Shump cuz rehabbing from an ACL doesn't allow much time to actually work on improving your overall game. This summer Shump will be able to really work on his skills and add to them. Maybe he works on his handle and finishing moves. maybe he adds a floater or spins moves. Whatever it is, Shump can still get a lot better as a player. I'd expect an even more confident player next year, which he wasn't for much of the season as he was still tentative after the ACL.

Tyson needs help. I'll give him a bit of a pass for the playoffs, but overall he was not the same player this entire season and I wouldn't expect him to improve next year. We need more bodies and hopefully we can find some guys younger than 35 this time.

I actually think Amar'e will transition to his old man game pretty well. No more high flying. Just work on his post moves and midrange jumper. Limited minutes, some days off and I think he could be a useful player tho not a star anymore.

Grunwald has to clean up some of the bad deals he made. Kidd and Camby with 3 year deals? Now he's gotta find some steals out there like he did with Cope and Prigs. There are always players out there. Heck KMart was a very good pick up. This is where he'll really earn his money if he can find hidden gems out there for cheap.

NardDogNation wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Finestrg wrote:

CrushAlot wrote:

loweyecue wrote:

Finestrg wrote:I have no problem with Melo as the centerpiece...Dude went for almost 40 last night. I thought he was great. Played his heart out. He needs better pieces around him. The right pieces..

Melo himself said this is the BEST team he EVER had around him - and he couldn't even get to the ECF, whereas by extension he has been to the WCF, with a worse team - so now the Team was the best ever he had, and clearly Melo can never be blamed for anything so um - let's fire the coach!

I think he was in the moment. Not sure that he would ever say this is the second best team I have ever been on or man this team is almost as good as my Denver team.

Exactly. What's he supposed to say? It was a decent team...Better than decent to be fair -- we did win 54 games. But it's not good enough to go all the way. Chandler and JR Smith and to a lesser degree Amar'e (I'll give him a bit of a pass here coming off knee surgery) aren't a good enough supporting cast. Bottom line is that Melo needed at least Chandler & Smith to play big--at least contribute--and for the 2nd year in a row, they failed (esp. Chandler and JR -- how much could we really expect out of a guy coming off knee surgery and thrust right into a playoff series against an Indiana team with that high-caliber a frontcourt?). These two didn't show up in this series at all...Melo deserved better man...I think it's been proven now we don't have the proper formula. We may not be able to make wholesale changes but clearly some degree of augmentation is needed.

Yes it's always someone else's fault - while Melo had a total of one good game in the two play-off series we played this year. So exactly what is it that he needs now? Who are you going to get for him?

What exactly are you hoping to gain from convincing other people to blame Melo? I admit he was garbage in the Boston series and shot awfully all playoffs and also had 2 turnovers that basically blew the game yesterday but hes still not going anywhere.

Gain? I am discussing my point of view - isn't that what you do on a message board? I am also tired of hearing this Melo needs help crap - Melo is what he is a overpaid, one dimensional ball hogging, low percentage scorer.

Well why are trying to place all the blame on him saying "its never his fault" sarcastically? Losing to Indiana was not solely his fault.

Why or how does pointing out that he is as much to blame as anyone else, suddenly get construed into it being "all his fault"??? You Melo fans are all butthurt because he played like crap and now all your year long taunting is coming back to bite you in the ass. Deal with it.

I've just joined this message board and you've managed to comment in multiple threads bashing Melo and Melo alone. And all of a sudden, you're commenting in full force AFTER we were officially kicked out of the playoffs which leads me to believe that you delight in us losing so that you can have your "told you so" moment.

I thought I had a discussion with you yesterday about it. So I don't know why I am reading this now. You are entitled to your opinion. My last signature used to read:
"There are two types of people in the world, those who extrapolate from incomplete data."

Nalod wrote:

smackeddog wrote:By the way, congratulations DJ- I see Colangelo is no longer going to be GM-ing the Raptors- must be a huge relief! Can't believe he lasted so long!

The guy did a decent job for a while but who knows all that goes on behind the scenes. He did a great job in PHX and had Raps on the mend. Mistakes will happen. Change of ownership, Bosh leaving (why not trade him first?) ETC.......

DJ might be able to shed some light on his tenure and where it went wrong.

BTW DJ, you back or just in for a visit? Can one really change teams? I want to but just can't. I have tried. Maybe a proclaimation as a divorce creed helps? Do you have any tips? Do you pick a team or just gravitate to one and then commit?

just a visit. yeah, i may be the exception more than the rule, but it is possible to switch teams. i left the squad 6 years ago and never looked back.

only knicks basketball i've watched this year was against the raptors and game 4 vs. indy b/c i had a bet with marv. i was considering piling on after the playoff loss here but 1/2 this board looks like they like to pile on already :)

i'm actually a fan of colangelo and don't really mind him staying (if he does). i think he had immediate success...tried to continue it with bosh. then shifted gears post bosh and you are seeing some natural organic growth. cap space means nothing to us b/c nobody signs there.

our starting 5 is lowry + demar + rudy + amir + jonas. that starting 5 ranked top 5 this season when they played together. the roster is .500 w/ rudy (and no bargs). so with a few moves to shore up the bench, we are a playoff team comprised mainly of youth.

so i'm cool with colangelo. but it looks like with the new ceo (leiweke), he will be bumped to an executive role (he's on the path to being deputy commissioner or potentially be the nba commissioner when it's all said and done), while they go after ujiri to be gm. he's denver's gm, the guy that made the melo deal and was colangelo's assistant gm in toronto before he left.

Nalod wrote:Is ujiri a "free agent"?

Bargs is a great asset at the right price. Maybe not no. 1 pick material or "dirk" quite yet, but the kid can shoot.

Raps have hope and assets.

On switching teams:
Two teams that can grab me are the Hor-Cats (Charlotte) and my ABA Ebbets Field Vintage Nets! 80's Islanders with 4 stanley cups and my Net's roots from the old LI days mixed with my Brooklyn birthright and my russian blood all are natural draw's for me. Charlotte's team is naturally much closer but: I hate Jordan and the team has no roots or soul. I might say the same for the Nets!

So Im still here. I don't go to any other chat site. gotta ask, you participate in any Raptors sites?

ujiri is a free agent. yes, i post on a raptors board...which sees it's own split fanbase like this one.