Uptown wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:I can name 5 or 6 guys that have really let us down. Carmelo has been our best player. His teammates are letting him down, they are letting each other down.

My problem is this. We completely revamped the core of our team in order to acquire Melo. When we could have signed him or someone else as a free agent. Every move for the last two seasons was made with him in mind. We most likely consulted him beforehand as well. Now as putrid as chandler and smith and Kidd and woody have been I can't be angry at him for not winning this on his own. Indiana is too good for that

That being said. With everything I outlined above. I fully expect him to have a larger impact than Roy Hibbert

Saying we revamped the core to aquire Melo is partially true. We acquired Melo to pair him with Stat, another allstar. Stat has been MIA since Melo's arrival so I ask, what part does Stat play in this equation when you consider why Melo was brought here?

Amare has been a disaster and has not escaped criticism. He has been destroyed on this site. That being said, we did not trade 3/5 of our roster for Amare. Amare immediately accepted less shots, a bench role etc. ever since his original injury he has done as asked and expected. Lets not get it twisted, we are building around Melo.

Carmelo is our "superstar". Is it unfair to ask him to outperform Hibbert? I'm expecting that over the last three games

Bippity10 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:I can name 5 or 6 guys that have really let us down. Carmelo has been our best player. His teammates are letting him down, they are letting each other down.

My problem is this. We completely revamped the core of our team in order to acquire Melo. When we could have signed him or someone else as a free agent. Every move for the last two seasons was made with him in mind. We most likely consulted him beforehand as well. Now as putrid as chandler and smith and Kidd and woody have been I can't be angry at him for not winning this on his own. Indiana is too good for that

That being said. With everything I outlined above. I fully expect him to have a larger impact than Roy Hibbert

Saying we revamped the core to aquire Melo is partially true. We acquired Melo to pair him with Stat, another allstar. Stat has been MIA since Melo's arrival so I ask, what part does Stat play in this equation when you consider why Melo was brought here?

Amare has been a disaster and has not escaped criticism. He has been destroyed on this site. That being said, we did not trade 3/5 of our roster for Amare. Amare immediately accepted less shots, a bench role etc. ever since his original injury he has done as asked and expected. Lets not get it twisted, we are building around Melo.

Carmelo is our "superstar". Is it unfair to ask him to outperform Hibbert? I'm expecting that over the last three games

Either way, having a healthy Stat on the team allowed the Knicks to swing for the fences (rightly or wrongly) and dump 3/5's of the roster to acquire Melo because brass thought a combo of Stat and Melo, 2 allstars would land us amongst the elite. Without Stat in the mix, I doubt that trade goes down. Without a healthy Stat, this team resembles the Thunder without Westbrook. OKC is building around Durant, unfortunately we dont have anyone close to a reliable 2nd star player to play alongside him. (Before anyone jumps in, No I'm not comparing Melo to Durant)

I dont necessarily disagree with Melo being able to outperform Hibbert. However, I think its alot harder to dilute Hibberts impact on the game than it is Melo's. Hibbert share-size alone is tough enough, but he performs on the defensive and offensive boards, the defense is built around him as he stops penetration, he can score in the paint, etc.

Not trying to be evasive to your question, I do understand what your saying. In the grand scheme of things Melo is supposed to be the bigger star and should have the bigger iimpact, but for Melo to = what Hibbert is doing on both sides of the ball and on the boards, Melo would have to drop about 35 a game if not more....

Uptown wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:I can name 5 or 6 guys that have really let us down. Carmelo has been our best player. His teammates are letting him down, they are letting each other down.

My problem is this. We completely revamped the core of our team in order to acquire Melo. When we could have signed him or someone else as a free agent. Every move for the last two seasons was made with him in mind. We most likely consulted him beforehand as well. Now as putrid as chandler and smith and Kidd and woody have been I can't be angry at him for not winning this on his own. Indiana is too good for that

That being said. With everything I outlined above. I fully expect him to have a larger impact than Roy Hibbert

Saying we revamped the core to aquire Melo is partially true. We acquired Melo to pair him with Stat, another allstar. Stat has been MIA since Melo's arrival so I ask, what part does Stat play in this equation when you consider why Melo was brought here?

Amare has been a disaster and has not escaped criticism. He has been destroyed on this site. That being said, we did not trade 3/5 of our roster for Amare. Amare immediately accepted less shots, a bench role etc. ever since his original injury he has done as asked and expected. Lets not get it twisted, we are building around Melo.

Carmelo is our "superstar". Is it unfair to ask him to outperform Hibbert? I'm expecting that over the last three games

Either way, having a healthy Stat on the team allowed the Knicks to swing for the fences (rightly or wrongly) and dump 3/5's of the roster to acquire Melo because brass thought a combo of Stat and Melo, 2 allstars would land us amongst the elite. Without Stat in the mix, I doubt that trade goes down. Without a healthy Stat, this team resembles the Thunder without Westbrook. OKC is building around Durant, unfortunately we dont have anyone close to a reliable 2nd star player to play alongside him. (Before anyone jumps in, No I'm not comparing Melo to Durant)

I dont necessarily disagree with Melo being able to outperform Hibbert. However, I think its alot harder to dilute Hibberts impact on the game than it is Melo's. Hibbert share-size alone is tough enough, but he performs on the defensive and offensive boards, the defense is built around him as he stops penetration, he can score in the paint, etc.

Not trying to be evasive to your question, I do understand what your saying. In the grand scheme of things Melo is supposed to be the bigger star and should have the bigger iimpact, but for Melo to = what Hibbert is doing on both sides of the ball and on the boards, Melo would have to drop about 35 a game if not more....

So what you are saying is that Hibbert is a bigger star.

I do agree with your first point that stat allowed us to dump the farm for Melo. Still we weren't going to dump the farm for Hibbert or Rudy gay or joe Johnson. We did it for Melo because he's supposed to be a superstar. He's proving that at the moment he is not. However, the series is not over. Maybe he becomes one

Great players, can score lots of points, but they don't get you bling.

I see why the world don't like Melo. They don't have to.

MS wrote:Melo is shooting 39% in the playoffs and 1.7 assists. He hasn't been good in the playoffs. He was subpar his first two season as well. There is no exuse for that kind of shooting.

Unfortunately he is very similiar to iverson. you can't build around him unless you get pieces that never need the ball. He doesn't get it and never will. He played well this season, but his stats are virtually the same as they were his first two seasons. I think having Felton was the only real difference this season as opposed to his first two with the Knicks.

It's all perception. Like Tyson Chandler is an elite defender.

I said I would stay out of this thread, but I wanted to respond to your post... I agree with you in that carmelo is almost impossible to build around because you will have to get guys who don't need or want the ball. well that may work somewhat if the guy taking the majority of the shots could shoot above 39% in the playoffs... and when he doesn't, the fans cry.. "he needs help" this has been going on for 10 years now... it is sickening to keep hearing that excuse..

with that said.. Carmelo is NOT a great player.. He can be a great Streak scorer, he can score the ball better than most in streaks.... He is not a good defender, or passer. he doesn't make anyone better... and It is not only because I don't think he really is interested in all the other aspects, but he just isn't good at it... plain and simple... so he does what makes him comfortable... shoot.... and some people fell in love with that... but it doesn't make you a contender... Paul George is clearly outplaying him, and lets be real, it is not like Paul george is lighting it up offensively either, but he does so many other things, that contribute to team cohesion and winning, which is just what we are not getting from carmelo...

yea, yea, I am going to be called a hater.. I really don't care, it is not like I am making these things up... even the biggest carmelo homer sees this, now coming to terms with it, is another thing...

I think having Felton was the only real difference this season as opposed to his first two with the Knicks.

I agree for the most part,having felton and KIDD play very well early, made a difference.. as kidd's play tanked and felton has cooled off a bit, you could see a big difference in play. George Hill is killing our backcourt..

fishmike wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:

Uptown wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:I can name 5 or 6 guys that have really let us down. Carmelo has been our best player. His teammates are letting him down, they are letting each other down.

My problem is this. We completely revamped the core of our team in order to acquire Melo. When we could have signed him or someone else as a free agent. Every move for the last two seasons was made with him in mind. We most likely consulted him beforehand as well. Now as putrid as chandler and smith and Kidd and woody have been I can't be angry at him for not winning this on his own. Indiana is too good for that

That being said. With everything I outlined above. I fully expect him to have a larger impact than Roy Hibbert

Saying we revamped the core to aquire Melo is partially true. We acquired Melo to pair him with Stat, another allstar. Stat has been MIA since Melo's arrival so I ask, what part does Stat play in this equation when you consider why Melo was brought here?

Amare has been a disaster and has not escaped criticism. He has been destroyed on this site. That being said, we did not trade 3/5 of our roster for Amare. Amare immediately accepted less shots, a bench role etc. ever since his original injury he has done as asked and expected. Lets not get it twisted, we are building around Melo.

Carmelo is our "superstar". Is it unfair to ask him to outperform Hibbert? I'm expecting that over the last three games

Either way, having a healthy Stat on the team allowed the Knicks to swing for the fences (rightly or wrongly) and dump 3/5's of the roster to acquire Melo because brass thought a combo of Stat and Melo, 2 allstars would land us amongst the elite. Without Stat in the mix, I doubt that trade goes down. Without a healthy Stat, this team resembles the Thunder without Westbrook. OKC is building around Durant, unfortunately we dont have anyone close to a reliable 2nd star player to play alongside him. (Before anyone jumps in, No I'm not comparing Melo to Durant)

I dont necessarily disagree with Melo being able to outperform Hibbert. However, I think its alot harder to dilute Hibberts impact on the game than it is Melo's. Hibbert share-size alone is tough enough, but he performs on the defensive and offensive boards, the defense is built around him as he stops penetration, he can score in the paint, etc.

Not trying to be evasive to your question, I do understand what your saying. In the grand scheme of things Melo is supposed to be the bigger star and should have the bigger iimpact, but for Melo to = what Hibbert is doing on both sides of the ball and on the boards, Melo would have to drop about 35 a game if not more....

I would buy that... I would. Honestly watching that game last night I thought Melo hit a lot of big shots to stop the bleeding and keep it managable. I was thinking if the Knicks make a run in this game it will be possible because Melo was hitting some shots and keeping it close.

The problem is the results, which are ALWAYS the same for Melo. Too many shots take, too many shots missed and lots of losses in the playoffs. Its not here or there. Its every year.

Melo has been a Knick 3 years. In 3 years of playoffs he's shot .375 .419 .391

MAybe after 5 years we say this wont work? 10? You tell me... how many playoff games does he have to jack 30 shots and miss 20 for folks to realize maybe there is a better player to build an offense around. You tell me mate.

In 2009, when he was paired with Billups in the playoffs, Melo averaged 27 pts, 6 rbs and 4 asts on 45% shooting, while Billups averaged 20 pts a game. Since becoming a Knick, Melo hasn't played with anyone remotely close to impacting the game the way Billups did in '09. Superstar or no, he needs a legit allstar running mate and with Stat being down the last 3 years, he hasn't had one since his arrival.....

BTW when he played with Billups in 09, he only jacked 20 shots per.....Give him an allstar and I'm sure he wont jack 30 shots....

TeamBall wrote:

Bippity10 wrote:MS he is hanging on to players because he too thinks Melo is a superstar.

Grunwald? I think keeping Melo (I dont want him traded for the record) would be more Dolan than anything. If we could trade Melo and bring back someone that Dolan can use as the face of the franchise and to put asses in the seats then it could happen.

You are probably right. There is a very good chance he is trying to make do with what he has

tkf wrote:

MS wrote:Melo is shooting 39% in the playoffs and 1.7 assists. He hasn't been good in the playoffs. He was subpar his first two season as well. There is no exuse for that kind of shooting.

Unfortunately he is very similiar to iverson. you can't build around him unless you get pieces that never need the ball. He doesn't get it and never will. He played well this season, but his stats are virtually the same as they were his first two seasons. I think having Felton was the only real difference this season as opposed to his first two with the Knicks.

It's all perception. Like Tyson Chandler is an elite defender.

I said I would stay out of this thread, but I wanted to respond to your post... I agree with you in that carmelo is almost impossible to build around because you will have to get guys who don't need or want the ball. well that may work somewhat if the guy taking the majority of the shots could shoot above 39% in the playoffs... and when he doesn't, the fans cry.. "he needs help" this has been going on for 10 years now... it is sickening to keep hearing that excuse..

with that said.. Carmelo is NOT a great player.. He can be a great Streak scorer, he can score the ball better than most in streaks.... He is not a good defender, or passer. he doesn't make anyone better... and It is not only because I don't think he really is interested in all the other aspects, but he just isn't good at it... plain and simple... so he does what makes him comfortable... shoot.... and some people fell in love with that... but it doesn't make you a contender... Paul George is clearly outplaying him, and lets be real, it is not like Paul george is lighting it up offensively either, but he does so many other things, that contribute to team cohesion and winning, which is just what we are not getting from carmelo...

yea, yea, I am going to be called a hater.. I really don't care, it is not like I am making these things up... even the biggest carmelo homer sees this, now coming to terms with it, is another thing...

I think having Felton was the only real difference this season as opposed to his first two with the Knicks.

I agree for the most part,having felton and KIDD play very well early, made a difference.. as kidd's play tanked and felton has cooled off a bit, you could see a big difference in play. George Hill is killing our backcourt..

i will add: if you understand the game and see the game properly it is clear that paul george's floor impact is many times more positive than carmelo anthony's floor impact. dude is almost invisible out there for being such a touted superstar.