knickstorrents wrote:Only players worth building around on this team is felton and shump.

Suck it up, enjoy early playoff exits for the forseeable future.

But but we need "STARS" to win in this league.....smh! Im pretty sure the Pacers are gonna follow our example next year and gut the team to get "STARS"!

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Only players worth building around on this team is felton and shump.

Suck it up, enjoy early playoff exits for the forseeable future.

But but we need "STARS" to win in this league.....smh! Im pretty sure the Pacers are gonna follow our example next year and gut the team to get "STARS"!

Indy has 3 all stars. The Denver series should have taught you stars win in the league when curry took over to upset Denver. Of the teams left in the playoffs, all have stars so yes you need stars to win. Teams like Denver who have no allstar caliber players have great regular seasons and lose first round. Melo got us to the second round. If we didn't trade for him we would be a fringe playoff team or lotto team. But keep trying to convince yourself we would be better off. Ignore the division wins, 50 plus win seasons, and playoff series wins along the way smh. Melo haters are running out of excuses. What more can one guy do? I will enjoy the playoffs because no one else could lead us there before. I enjoyed beating Boston but apparently you didnt. If you enjoyed the lotto that much go be a Bobcats or Wiz fan.

Vmart wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Vmart wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

VCoug wrote:

VDesai wrote:We need to pull that "Oakley for Camby" style move. Which playoff team is on the brink and can use a veteran guy like Tyson, but let go of a younger more athletic big who hasn't really come into his own yet?

LA Clippers. Tyson Chandler and our 1st rounder for DeAndre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe.

Bingo. Pull the trigger on that deal as SOON as the playoffs are done.

If we could get Bledsoe I'd definitely keep Kidd to tutor him. Kidd's minutes would be GREATLY reduced going forward though.

If you get Bledsoe that makes Ray expendable and you could get something decent for him too.

Ray at 4 million per is a steal. I'd keep him unless I got something good for him.

Ray would start pouting once Bledsoe takes his job and go on a eating binge. He did that in Denver once Lawson supplanted him as the starter.

I haven't seen Bledsoe play much but the knock on him is he can't run an offense. Good to great off bench. I am not sure if "can't fun an offense" means he is a SG in a PG body or just a young player needing time to develop.

This is not an out of shape Felton versus Lawson comparison.

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Only players worth building around on this team is felton and shump.

Suck it up, enjoy early playoff exits for the forseeable future.

But but we need "STARS" to win in this league.....smh! Im pretty sure the Pacers are gonna follow our example next year and gut the team to get "STARS"!

Indy has 3 all stars. The Denver series should have taught you stars win in the league when curry took over to upset Denver. Of the teams left in the playoffs, all have stars so yes you need stars to win. Teams like Denver who have no allstar caliber players have great regular seasons and lose first round. Melo got us to the second round. If we didn't trade for him we would be a fringe playoff team or lotto team. But keep trying to convince yourself we would be better off. Ignore the division wins, 50 plus win seasons, and playoff series wins along the way smh. Melo haters are running out of excuses. What more can one guy do? I will enjoy the playoffs because no one else could lead us there before. I enjoyed beating Boston but apparently you didnt. If you enjoyed the lotto that much go be a Bobcats or Wiz fan.

I'm sorry, where did the Pacers all stars come from? I don't remembering them gutting a team to bring in anybody. They drafted well and waited. Now they about to hand to Ny Nuggets a severe ass whopping. You keep talking about the Celtics like that's a big deal. That wasn't the same Celtics team from last few years. The stars on that team were talking about retiring. To be honest if Rhondo was playing I think it would've gone differently and yes, the Nuggets would've beat that Celtics team. If we had to play Golden State in the first round, we would of went home early too. So I don't wanna hear that crap. The only difference is Denver has room to improve, where as we really don't. We shot our load early and now we can look forward to the next few years of limp dickitis!! This team doesn't impress me, not for what we gave up to get it. I'm glad your so easily impressed tho....smh

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Only players worth building around on this team is felton and shump.

Suck it up, enjoy early playoff exits for the forseeable future.

But but we need "STARS" to win in this league.....smh! Im pretty sure the Pacers are gonna follow our example next year and gut the team to get "STARS"!

Indy has 3 all stars. The Denver series should have taught you stars win in the league when curry took over to upset Denver. Of the teams left in the playoffs, all have stars so yes you need stars to win. Teams like Denver who have no allstar caliber players have great regular seasons and lose first round. Melo got us to the second round. If we didn't trade for him we would be a fringe playoff team or lotto team. But keep trying to convince yourself we would be better off. Ignore the division wins, 50 plus win seasons, and playoff series wins along the way smh. Melo haters are running out of excuses. What more can one guy do? I will enjoy the playoffs because no one else could lead us there before. I enjoyed beating Boston but apparently you didnt. If you enjoyed the lotto that much go be a Bobcats or Wiz fan.

I'm sorry, where did the Pacers all stars come from? I don't remembering them gutting a team to bring in anybody. They drafted well and waited. Now they about to hand to Ny Nuggets a severe ass whopping. You keep talking about the Celtics like that's a big deal. That wasn't the same Celtics team from last few years. The stars on that team were talking about retiring. To be honest if Rhondo was playing I think it would've gone differently and yes, the Nuggets would've beat that Celtics team. If we had to play Golden State in the first round, we would of went home early too. So I don't wanna hear that crap. The only difference is Denver has room to improve, where as we really don't. We shot our load early and now we can look forward to the next few years of limp dickitis!! This team doesn't impress me, not for what we gave up to get it. I'm glad your so easily impressed tho....smh

Your whole argument is based on what-ifs. What if we played GS, what if rondo played. What if Denver played Boston. Not an impressive argument. We won a playoff series, Denver didn't. We were a lotto team before Melo, we are a 2nd round playoff team with him. End of story.

You haven't been paying attention. We were NOT a lotto team before Melo. We were a very young team that was gelling. Melo should've waited for free agency and joined THAT team if he wanted to "win" so bad, which is still up for debate if you ask me, cause the big 3 in Miami all took pay cuts to win a Ship. I guess you think Melo is above that huh?

The Knicks team was a .500 team, so a 7th or 8th seed at best. No guarantee they ever had the upside to get out of the first round, and the way Gallo and Chandler have failed to develop, i think it's safe to say that team wasn't going very far. Melo was in a different situation then Lebron and co as the uncertainty of the lockout made things difficult. He did not want to be in limbo all offseason. Can't blame him. And getting back to your other point, yes Indiana has done a fantastic job building thru the draft, but there are far more teams that have failed over the past many years than have succeeded.

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

Knixkik wrote:

ShellTopAdidas wrote:

knickstorrents wrote:Only players worth building around on this team is felton and shump.

Suck it up, enjoy early playoff exits for the forseeable future.

But but we need "STARS" to win in this league.....smh! Im pretty sure the Pacers are gonna follow our example next year and gut the team to get "STARS"!

Indy has 3 all stars. The Denver series should have taught you stars win in the league when curry took over to upset Denver. Of the teams left in the playoffs, all have stars so yes you need stars to win. Teams like Denver who have no allstar caliber players have great regular seasons and lose first round. Melo got us to the second round. If we didn't trade for him we would be a fringe playoff team or lotto team. But keep trying to convince yourself we would be better off. Ignore the division wins, 50 plus win seasons, and playoff series wins along the way smh. Melo haters are running out of excuses. What more can one guy do? I will enjoy the playoffs because no one else could lead us there before. I enjoyed beating Boston but apparently you didnt. If you enjoyed the lotto that much go be a Bobcats or Wiz fan.

I'm sorry, where did the Pacers all stars come from? I don't remembering them gutting a team to bring in anybody. They drafted well and waited. Now they about to hand to Ny Nuggets a severe ass whopping. You keep talking about the Celtics like that's a big deal. That wasn't the same Celtics team from last few years. The stars on that team were talking about retiring. To be honest if Rhondo was playing I think it would've gone differently and yes, the Nuggets would've beat that Celtics team. If we had to play Golden State in the first round, we would of went home early too. So I don't wanna hear that crap. The only difference is Denver has room to improve, where as we really don't. We shot our load early and now we can look forward to the next few years of limp dickitis!! This team doesn't impress me, not for what we gave up to get it. I'm glad your so easily impressed tho....smh

Your whole argument is based on what-ifs. What if we played GS, what if rondo played. What if Denver played Boston. Not an impressive argument. We won a playoff series, Denver didn't. We were a lotto team before Melo, we are a 2nd round playoff team with him. End of story.

You haven't been paying attention. We were NOT a lotto team before Melo. We were a very young team that was gelling. Melo should've waited for free agency and joined THAT team if he wanted to "win" so bad, which is still up for debate if you ask me, cause the big 3 in Miami all took pay cuts to win a Ship. I guess you think Melo is above that huh?

The Knicks team was a .500 team, so a 7th or 8th seed at best. No guarantee they ever had the upside to get out of the first round, and the way Gallo and Chandler have failed to develop, i think it's safe to say that team wasn't going very far. Melo was in a different situation then Lebron and co as the uncertainty of the lockout made things difficult. He did not want to be in limbo all offseason. Can't blame him. And getting back to your other point, yes Indiana has done a fantastic job building thru the draft, but there are far more teams that have failed over the past many years than have succeeded.

Gallo and Chandler failed to develope? Have you ever watched Denver play? Yes the team we had before the trade was developing nicely. Maybe not at the pace YOU may have liked but what we were building was working and we had the money and flexibility to get much better. Now we have Melo and the Old Folks Home Crew, no money, no draft picks, and no hope. This years achievement will not be repeated next year or year after that unless some major changes are made......AGAIN!

Sorry but Gallo and Chandler are the same players we dealt. They will never be stars or lead the Nuggets into a deep playoff run. Do we need to make changes? Yes. But the core is in place with Melo, Chandler, and Shumpert and it is far superior to that of Gallo, Chandler, and Fields. Stoudemire's decline should solidify any doubt that we needed Melo. Otherwise we would be capped out with a fringe playoff team and our only star on a serious decline. At least this team has the capability of making playoff runs. And we have this year's draft pick so not sure why you said we have no picks. And stop using the "no money" argument. That money would be tied up in Stoudemire, Gallo, and W Chandler instead of Melo, T chandler, and Stoudemire. Think about how this franchise operates and not based on what-ifs. There would be equal money tied to Gallo and Chandler as there is Melo.

I am a Knick fan but these are facts
that I some self called "TRUE FANS" continue to ignore
Some act like we would have NEVER made trades had we not traded the roster for Melo and build on what we already had

Which all of these positions in ALL STAR talent were available after our trade
We were missing 3 pieces to contend, one maybe an All Star like player to give us our best chances
1- A long term, penetrating PG that is much better than Felton
2- A shot blocking Defensive Center
3- a SG that could defend, hit the 3, handle the ball, and do a bit of everything

everything else role players, vet min talent would be enough, any MLE would be a bonus with the assets we had left to deal with in trades or the draft
Gallo and Wilson Chandler are NOT just role players, they might not be All STAR talent but some of these proclaimed "REAL KNICK FANS" call them role players and make it sound like vet min players could replace them, when in fact they are worth more than the full MLE and a 1st round pick

Donnie Walsh had plan B,C,E, but Dolan elected to go with plan Z in the final stages of completion

If he wants that 20-25m per year like a Joe Johnson like deal it will cripple us for even more years without the ability to add the players we need

or

Will he take less money in 2015 and stay in NY while recruiting the top FA's in 2015

either way, we loss 5 years of time with the assets so he could come home
We could have achieved everything that he has done in the play offs with the squad we had prior to the trade in 1st/2nd round exits but at least we would still have assets to improve with the cap expirings to sign FA's

Knixkik wrote:

RonRon wrote:
Denver won Coach of the Year and GM of the year but some continue to ignore it and believe we made out like bandits for "MELO coming home"
Go back to any ALL STAR traded after Melo, from Deron, Cp3, D12, Harden, and even Rudy Gay
Look to see what they were traded for and had we NOT traded for Melo, we would have been able to be in every of these trades scenarios
They were all traded for MUCH less assets and/or without the financial flexibility that we saved Denver
And Oh yeah, we also had "LEVERAGE" over the trade but gave it up to save "Melo" from some possible fans that will not burn his jersey like Lebron's was
Had he said "I AM ONLY SIGNING a extension with NYK" which Donnie Walsh understood and wanted him to do, he didn't to save his reputation and fan base

I am a Knick fan but these are facts
that I some self called "TRUE FANS" continue to ignore
Some act like we would have NEVER made trades had we not traded the roster for Melo and build on what we already had

Which all of these positions in ALL STAR talent were available after our trade
We were missing 3 pieces to contend, one maybe an All Star like player to give us our best chances
1- A long term, penetrating PG that is much better than Felton
2- A shot blocking Defensive Center
3- a SG that could defend, hit the 3, handle the ball, and do a bit of everything

everything else role players, vet min talent would be enough, any MLE would be a bonus with the assets we had left to deal with in trades or the draft
Gallo and Wilson Chandler are NOT just role players, they might not be All STAR talent but some of these proclaimed "REAL KNICK FANS" call them role players and make it sound like vet min players could replace them, when in fact they are worth more than the full MLE and a 1st round pick

Donnie Walsh had plan B,C,E, but Dolan elected to go with plan Z in the final stages of completion

Those individual awards did a lot of good for them in the playoffs, huh?

They still have the ability to improve, to add players/talent with picks/trades, while our roster is full of garbage, 35 year olds, and flawed players that we cannot even possibly keep...

While Melo has won his first award for points that he said he DID NOT WANT and will look to improve in area's such as defense, facilitating, rebounding, and whatever it takes to win

Melo had his "greatest" year of his career
Do you think ANY ONE TEAM in the league will be willing to pay 2/3's we payed for him?
The answer is NO and not even close, if we got half of what we gave up I think we should pull the deal
OH yeah, we traded "role players" for him

So 6+ 1st round picks and at least 5 2nd round picks is the price we payed for Melo in addition to the amnesty we loss to tried to build on the fly with the junk we had left

Melo needs a 2nd superstar to play with him to be successful.

I would send do this trade with Cleveland which would pair Melo with Kyrie Irving and they have their Bosh type player in Varejao which would play well with Melo.

Melo for Speights, Tristan Thompson, Dion Waiters, Alonzo Gee, CLE 1st round pick 3rd overall, both CLE 2nd round picks 31st and 33rd overall.

Why would CLE do this? This will leave CLE with a 1st round pick 19th overall so they still have some yoot coming in. They now will have a big 3 in Melo, Irving and Varejao that will actually work well together. They will also have some cap to sign a very good big in the mold of Al Jefferson or Paul Milsap. This roster will actually put them in the playoffs.

Why do we do this? We get their 1st round pick overall. We get 2 young lottery players in Waiters and Thompson. We get 2 early 2nd round picks. We get yoothier right away.

I would not re-sign anybody from our current roster except for Copeland. Including Pablo. I would let JR walk if he exercises his option.

I would then try to see if Lakers would take Amare and Shump for Gasol. Amare is more MDA's player and maybe they can have a Suns revival in LaLa land. Amare and Nash have the same length in contract. Gasol contract is 1 year shorter than Amare. Also, imagine Shump and the Black Mamba terrorizing the other teams backcourt with defense?

I would also try to get rid Camby. Maybe send him to ORL for TurkeyGlue's expiring contract. Camby and Felton for TurkeyGlue.

Now for the draft. I am not a college basketball guy so I will defer to BRIGGS scouting on this. I really like his reports and he has been more right than wrong in most cases.

For the 1st round pick 3rd overall, I am looking the PG spot or a big center. Looking at BRIGGS Top 10 NBA prospects, Alen Len and CJ McCollum caught my eye. Our need for a PG weighs heavily and If CJ's comparison is Steph Curry then I am picking CJ McCollum.

For our own 24th pick I am looking for a SF. GIANNIS ADETOKUNBO. This kid will be a sleeper.

For the 31st pick, 1st pick in the 2nd round, I will select the BRIGGS favorite. Nate Wolters. He is not projected in the 1st round so he might be available in the 2nd round.

For the 33rd pick, I am looking for a SG with very good shooting skills. Allen Crabbe. NBADraft.net compares him to Hubbert Davis.

Roster would look like this.

C- Chandler/Speights
PF- Gasol/Thompson
SF- Copeland/ADETOKUNBO/Novak/TurkeyGlue
SG- Waiters/Gee/Crabbe
PF- McCollum/Wolters/Kidd

You have 2 young guards in Waiters and McCollum that can shoot. SF will be by committee until Adetokunbo is ready. Chandler and Gasol will protect the paint.

Boom!

EDIT: Fire Woody and sign JVG.

VCoug wrote:

martin wrote:

Vmart wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

Vmart wrote:

AnubisADL wrote:

VCoug wrote:

VDesai wrote:We need to pull that "Oakley for Camby" style move. Which playoff team is on the brink and can use a veteran guy like Tyson, but let go of a younger more athletic big who hasn't really come into his own yet?

LA Clippers. Tyson Chandler and our 1st rounder for DeAndre Jordan and Eric Bledsoe.

Bingo. Pull the trigger on that deal as SOON as the playoffs are done.

If we could get Bledsoe I'd definitely keep Kidd to tutor him. Kidd's minutes would be GREATLY reduced going forward though.

If you get Bledsoe that makes Ray expendable and you could get something decent for him too.

Ray at 4 million per is a steal. I'd keep him unless I got something good for him.

Ray would start pouting once Bledsoe takes his job and go on a eating binge. He did that in Denver once Lawson supplanted him as the starter.

I haven't seen Bledsoe play much but the knock on him is he can't run an offense. Good to great off bench. I am not sure if "can't fun an offense" means he is a SG in a PG body or just a young player needing time to develop.

This is not an out of shape Felton versus Lawson comparison.

You might be right about Bledsoe, I haven't seen him play very often but he has a good reputation among people who have watched him and I think he's be worth taking a chance on.

We can't trade our first rounder this year. Unless you mean trade after the draft when we select whoever they wanted.