DrAlphaeus wrote:I agree that Jackie Robinson comparison is journalistic hyperbole.

Could be that some hack journalist tried to make a weird representation - and by the way I noticed there was no link or context to the Jackie Robinson comparison, and if I recall correctly the initial was definitely couched with some level of due deference - so I don't know why this is even being emphasized so much.

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:I've now heard that Jason Collins is the next Jackie Robinson.

Seriously? Does that bother anyone?

Making a sacrifice for the embetterment of others who will follow.

He is the "Gay" Jackie Robinson. Jackie is a hero to the black community. Maybe Jayson is also.

We have all seen when some players get "squeezed" out on the court and what it can do to a career. No imagine because a man is gay he loses his endorsements and the trust of his team because of "ignorance". That is why no major athlete in a major league has come out. Like SupremeCommander wrote is true and while it shoudl nto be a big deal, it is!

Jackie was a hero but he also profited from being the first. He was not killed. He put himself in front of uglyness and was a Pioneer. Collins is a Pioneer as well. Jackie was no superstar player, others that came after him were.

Collins paved the way for another and at some point that player will be as good as the others and will do more.

Bottom line is we are far more comfortable in our 2013 integreated society than we were in the 1940's. People were uncomfortable with being around Black people for many ignorant reasons.

Not all Gay men want to be with all men. Just like a hetero wants to be with all women.

Not even close to Jackie Robinson. The comparison is likely disrespectful to Mr. Robinson's descendants.

both men were/are in a position to break down barriers based on deep-seated prejudices. robinson as a black man was trying to gain acceptance in a white-dominated society that feared integration. collins as a gay man is trying to do the same thing with a nation of all colors that clearly harbors the same fears and prejudices.

it's honoring jackie robinson's legacy and his family and descendant's are surely admiring jason collins's courage.

Nobody's trying to kill Jason Collins now...last I check there wasn't Gay only bathrooms, water fountains, restaurant sections or buses.

Bad comparison.

it's a civil rights comparison no matter what color or sexual persuasion you are. so in this sense it is apples to apples.

both men were/are going up against the prejudices of their day. were it not for jackie robinson and ms. parks i doubt the civil rights movement even takes shape. so in a sense the relative tolerance that collins may well enjoy as a gay man right now is due in major part to the civil rights movement that his forebears catalysed.

as to a faulty comparison, yours is faulty: gays can hide their gayness much better than blacks can hide their blackness. so your comparison is apples to oranges.

is there any doubt that the hatred of blacks was far more virulent and pervasive then? gay rights are still civil rights... right?

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:I've now heard that Jason Collins is the next Jackie Robinson.

Seriously? Does that bother anyone?

Making a sacrifice for the embetterment of others who will follow.

He is the "Gay" Jackie Robinson. Jackie is a hero to the black community. Maybe Jayson is also.

We have all seen when some players get "squeezed" out on the court and what it can do to a career. No imagine because a man is gay he loses his endorsements and the trust of his team because of "ignorance". That is why no major athlete in a major league has come out. Like SupremeCommander wrote is true and while it shoudl nto be a big deal, it is!

Jackie was a hero but he also profited from being the first. He was not killed. He put himself in front of uglyness and was a Pioneer. Collins is a Pioneer as well. Jackie was no superstar player, others that came after him were.

Collins paved the way for another and at some point that player will be as good as the others and will do more.

Bottom line is we are far more comfortable in our 2013 integreated society than we were in the 1940's. People were uncomfortable with being around Black people for many ignorant reasons.

Not all Gay men want to be with all men. Just like a hetero wants to be with all women.

Not even close to Jackie Robinson. The comparison is likely disrespectful to Mr. Robinson's descendants.

both men were/are in a position to break down barriers based on deep-seated prejudices. robinson as a black man was trying to gain acceptance in a white-dominated society that feared integration. collins as a gay man is trying to do the same thing with a nation of all colors that clearly harbors the same fears and prejudices.

it's honoring jackie robinson's legacy and his family and descendant's are surely admiring jason collins's courage.

Nobody's trying to kill Jason Collins now...last I check there wasn't Gay only bathrooms, water fountains, restaurant sections or buses.

Bad comparison.

it's a civil rights comparison no matter what color or sexual persuasion you are. so in this sense it is apples to apples.

both men were/are going up against the prejudices of their day. were it not for jackie robinson and ms. parks i doubt the civil rights movement even takes shape. so in a sense the relative tolerance that collins may well enjoy as a gay man right now is due in major part to the civil rights movement that his forebears catalysed.

as to a faulty comparison, yours is faulty: gays can hide their gayness much better than blacks can hide their blackness. so your comparison is apples to oranges.

is there any doubt that the hatred of blacks was far more virulent and pervasive then? gay rights are still civil rights... right?

Nobody is trying kill gay people or Jason Collins in 2013. You can get a same sex marriage fairly easily in several states. Britney Griner, probably the future best woman's basketball player in history, came out and not even a yawn came out.

His coming out isn't even a minor inconvenience, it might be the best career move he ever made.

Jackie Robinson could've easily been killed day or night, at home, at the stadium.

Rickey was dead-on about the racism. As Sports Illustrated's Bill Nack wrote: "Robinson was the target of racial epithets and flying cleats, of hate letters and death threats, of pitchers throwing at his head and legs, and catchers spitting on his shoes."

Jason Collins has not faced anything close to what Jackie Robinson had to endure. Maybe a few decades ago it'd be different.

Sorry dk7th, apples and bananas comparison.

there is difference in "kind" and difference of "degree."

the difference you point to is a difference in degree, ie that of violence.

but i am saying there is no difference in kind.

both are civil rights issues.

apples to apples.

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:I've now heard that Jason Collins is the next Jackie Robinson.

Seriously? Does that bother anyone?

Making a sacrifice for the embetterment of others who will follow.

He is the "Gay" Jackie Robinson. Jackie is a hero to the black community. Maybe Jayson is also.

We have all seen when some players get "squeezed" out on the court and what it can do to a career. No imagine because a man is gay he loses his endorsements and the trust of his team because of "ignorance". That is why no major athlete in a major league has come out. Like SupremeCommander wrote is true and while it shoudl nto be a big deal, it is!

Jackie was a hero but he also profited from being the first. He was not killed. He put himself in front of uglyness and was a Pioneer. Collins is a Pioneer as well. Jackie was no superstar player, others that came after him were.

Collins paved the way for another and at some point that player will be as good as the others and will do more.

Bottom line is we are far more comfortable in our 2013 integreated society than we were in the 1940's. People were uncomfortable with being around Black people for many ignorant reasons.

Not all Gay men want to be with all men. Just like a hetero wants to be with all women.

Not even close to Jackie Robinson. The comparison is likely disrespectful to Mr. Robinson's descendants.

both men were/are in a position to break down barriers based on deep-seated prejudices. robinson as a black man was trying to gain acceptance in a white-dominated society that feared integration. collins as a gay man is trying to do the same thing with a nation of all colors that clearly harbors the same fears and prejudices.

it's honoring jackie robinson's legacy and his family and descendant's are surely admiring jason collins's courage.

Nobody's trying to kill Jason Collins now...last I check there wasn't Gay only bathrooms, water fountains, restaurant sections or buses.

Bad comparison.

it's a civil rights comparison no matter what color or sexual persuasion you are. so in this sense it is apples to apples.

both men were/are going up against the prejudices of their day. were it not for jackie robinson and ms. parks i doubt the civil rights movement even takes shape. so in a sense the relative tolerance that collins may well enjoy as a gay man right now is due in major part to the civil rights movement that his forebears catalysed.

as to a faulty comparison, yours is faulty: gays can hide their gayness much better than blacks can hide their blackness. so your comparison is apples to oranges.

is there any doubt that the hatred of blacks was far more virulent and pervasive then? gay rights are still civil rights... right?

Nobody is trying kill gay people or Jason Collins in 2013. You can get a same sex marriage fairly easily in several states. Britney Griner, probably the future best woman's basketball player in history, came out and not even a yawn came out.

His coming out isn't even a minor inconvenience, it might be the best career move he ever made.

Jackie Robinson could've easily been killed day or night, at home, at the stadium.

Rickey was dead-on about the racism. As Sports Illustrated's Bill Nack wrote: "Robinson was the target of racial epithets and flying cleats, of hate letters and death threats, of pitchers throwing at his head and legs, and catchers spitting on his shoes."

Jason Collins has not faced anything close to what Jackie Robinson had to endure. Maybe a few decades ago it'd be different.

Sorry dk7th, apples and bananas comparison.

there is difference in "kind" and difference of "degree."

the difference you point to is a difference in degree, ie that of violence.

but i am saying there is no difference in kind.

both are civil rights issues.

apples to apples.

How is this a civil rights issue though? There are plenty of gay athletes in every sport, even team sports. You go to entertainment and even government and there are plenty of openly gay politicians.

How is Jason Collins breaking some sort of barrier if that barrier has been destroyed long ago?

This isn't some monumental historic moment in civil rights. It's just a personal revelation/breakthrough.

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:I've now heard that Jason Collins is the next Jackie Robinson.

Seriously? Does that bother anyone?

Making a sacrifice for the embetterment of others who will follow.

He is the "Gay" Jackie Robinson. Jackie is a hero to the black community. Maybe Jayson is also.

We have all seen when some players get "squeezed" out on the court and what it can do to a career. No imagine because a man is gay he loses his endorsements and the trust of his team because of "ignorance". That is why no major athlete in a major league has come out. Like SupremeCommander wrote is true and while it shoudl nto be a big deal, it is!

Jackie was a hero but he also profited from being the first. He was not killed. He put himself in front of uglyness and was a Pioneer. Collins is a Pioneer as well. Jackie was no superstar player, others that came after him were.

Collins paved the way for another and at some point that player will be as good as the others and will do more.

Bottom line is we are far more comfortable in our 2013 integreated society than we were in the 1940's. People were uncomfortable with being around Black people for many ignorant reasons.

Not all Gay men want to be with all men. Just like a hetero wants to be with all women.

Not even close to Jackie Robinson. The comparison is likely disrespectful to Mr. Robinson's descendants.

both men were/are in a position to break down barriers based on deep-seated prejudices. robinson as a black man was trying to gain acceptance in a white-dominated society that feared integration. collins as a gay man is trying to do the same thing with a nation of all colors that clearly harbors the same fears and prejudices.

it's honoring jackie robinson's legacy and his family and descendant's are surely admiring jason collins's courage.

Nobody's trying to kill Jason Collins now...last I check there wasn't Gay only bathrooms, water fountains, restaurant sections or buses.

Bad comparison.

it's a civil rights comparison no matter what color or sexual persuasion you are. so in this sense it is apples to apples.

both men were/are going up against the prejudices of their day. were it not for jackie robinson and ms. parks i doubt the civil rights movement even takes shape. so in a sense the relative tolerance that collins may well enjoy as a gay man right now is due in major part to the civil rights movement that his forebears catalysed.

as to a faulty comparison, yours is faulty: gays can hide their gayness much better than blacks can hide their blackness. so your comparison is apples to oranges.

is there any doubt that the hatred of blacks was far more virulent and pervasive then? gay rights are still civil rights... right?

Nobody is trying kill gay people or Jason Collins in 2013. You can get a same sex marriage fairly easily in several states. Britney Griner, probably the future best woman's basketball player in history, came out and not even a yawn came out.

His coming out isn't even a minor inconvenience, it might be the best career move he ever made.

Jackie Robinson could've easily been killed day or night, at home, at the stadium.

Rickey was dead-on about the racism. As Sports Illustrated's Bill Nack wrote: "Robinson was the target of racial epithets and flying cleats, of hate letters and death threats, of pitchers throwing at his head and legs, and catchers spitting on his shoes."

Jason Collins has not faced anything close to what Jackie Robinson had to endure. Maybe a few decades ago it'd be different.

Sorry dk7th, apples and bananas comparison.

there is difference in "kind" and difference of "degree."

the difference you point to is a difference in degree, ie that of violence.

but i am saying there is no difference in kind.

both are civil rights issues.

apples to apples.

How is this a civil rights issue though? There are plenty of gay athletes in every sport, even team sports. You go to entertainment and even government and there are plenty of openly gay politicians.

How is Jason Collins breaking some sort of barrier if that barrier has been destroyed long ago?

This isn't some monumental historic moment in civil rights. It's just a personal revelation/breakthrough.

i should not have to explain how gay rights are a subset of civil rights, should i? the burden is on you and others to explain how gay rights are not civil rights.

but if i must... there have always been gay men and women in civilisation. yes or no? there is biological evidence (notice i did not say "proof") that around 8% of the population is born as homosexual.

this makes homosexuals a decided minority in every society to which they belong.

so guess what:

civil rights are about empowering and enfranchising minorities.

The very act of participated could and likely did place his entire family in danger. Collins is not likely to have a burning cross or phallic symbol appear on his front lawn. The comparison is so MINISCULE, that it shouldn't even be brought up.

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:I've now heard that Jason Collins is the next Jackie Robinson.

Seriously? Does that bother anyone?

Making a sacrifice for the embetterment of others who will follow.

He is the "Gay" Jackie Robinson. Jackie is a hero to the black community. Maybe Jayson is also.

We have all seen when some players get "squeezed" out on the court and what it can do to a career. No imagine because a man is gay he loses his endorsements and the trust of his team because of "ignorance". That is why no major athlete in a major league has come out. Like SupremeCommander wrote is true and while it shoudl nto be a big deal, it is!

Jackie was a hero but he also profited from being the first. He was not killed. He put himself in front of uglyness and was a Pioneer. Collins is a Pioneer as well. Jackie was no superstar player, others that came after him were.

Collins paved the way for another and at some point that player will be as good as the others and will do more.

Bottom line is we are far more comfortable in our 2013 integreated society than we were in the 1940's. People were uncomfortable with being around Black people for many ignorant reasons.

Not all Gay men want to be with all men. Just like a hetero wants to be with all women.

Not even close to Jackie Robinson. The comparison is likely disrespectful to Mr. Robinson's descendants.

both men were/are in a position to break down barriers based on deep-seated prejudices. robinson as a black man was trying to gain acceptance in a white-dominated society that feared integration. collins as a gay man is trying to do the same thing with a nation of all colors that clearly harbors the same fears and prejudices.

it's honoring jackie robinson's legacy and his family and descendant's are surely admiring jason collins's courage.

Nobody's trying to kill Jason Collins now...last I check there wasn't Gay only bathrooms, water fountains, restaurant sections or buses.

Bad comparison.

it's a civil rights comparison no matter what color or sexual persuasion you are. so in this sense it is apples to apples.

both men were/are going up against the prejudices of their day. were it not for jackie robinson and ms. parks i doubt the civil rights movement even takes shape. so in a sense the relative tolerance that collins may well enjoy as a gay man right now is due in major part to the civil rights movement that his forebears catalysed.

as to a faulty comparison, yours is faulty: gays can hide their gayness much better than blacks can hide their blackness. so your comparison is apples to oranges.

is there any doubt that the hatred of blacks was far more virulent and pervasive then? gay rights are still civil rights... right?

Nobody is trying kill gay people or Jason Collins in 2013. You can get a same sex marriage fairly easily in several states. Britney Griner, probably the future best woman's basketball player in history, came out and not even a yawn came out.

His coming out isn't even a minor inconvenience, it might be the best career move he ever made.

Jackie Robinson could've easily been killed day or night, at home, at the stadium.

Rickey was dead-on about the racism. As Sports Illustrated's Bill Nack wrote: "Robinson was the target of racial epithets and flying cleats, of hate letters and death threats, of pitchers throwing at his head and legs, and catchers spitting on his shoes."

Jason Collins has not faced anything close to what Jackie Robinson had to endure. Maybe a few decades ago it'd be different.

Sorry dk7th, apples and bananas comparison.

there is difference in "kind" and difference of "degree."

the difference you point to is a difference in degree, ie that of violence.

but i am saying there is no difference in kind.

both are civil rights issues.

apples to apples.

How is this a civil rights issue though? There are plenty of gay athletes in every sport, even team sports. You go to entertainment and even government and there are plenty of openly gay politicians.

How is Jason Collins breaking some sort of barrier if that barrier has been destroyed long ago?

This isn't some monumental historic moment in civil rights. It's just a personal revelation/breakthrough.

i should not have to explain how gay rights are a subset of civil rights, should i? the burden is on you and others to explain how gay rights are not civil rights.

but if i must... there have always been gay men and women in civilisation. yes or no? there is biological evidence (notice i did not say "proof") that around 8% of the population is born as homosexual.

this makes homosexuals a decided minority in every society to which they belong.

so guess what:

civil rights are about empowering and enfranchising minorities.

Answer me this. Whose civil rights are being violated?

Certainly not Jason Collins, he actually benefits greatly from this attention.

ChuckBuck wrote:

DrAlphaeus wrote:ChuckBuck: "Nobody is trying kill gay people or Jason Collins in 2013." (Emphasis mine.)

I don't know about Jason Collins specifically, but this is a naive statement at best, particularly when you think globally.

Why, is someone actively threatening or sending hate mail death threats to Jason Collins that I didn't hear about?

When the twitterverse blew up, it was mostly praise and congratulatory to him.

Imagine we had social media in the 40s and 50s when Jackie Robinson played...it wouldn't be pretty.

God, I tried to emphasize what I'm talking about, what are you not getting? It's not about 7-foot Jason Collins. It's about him representing other gay people, say the secretly gay high school football player who would be jumped by his former friends if he came out.

Here I was thinking you were limited to a US perspective, and you are actually limited to the "Twitterverse"? You can't catch a brick in the back of the head on Twitter.

ChuckBuck wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:the biggest difference is that When Robinson was playing, racist people felt like it was OK to walk up to him and spit in his face. Nowadays, people might think that but, they are unlikely to follow through.

The very act of participated could and likely did place his entire family in danger. Collins is not likely to have a burning cross or phallic symbol appear on his front lawn. The comparison is so MINISCULE, that it shouldn't even be brought up.

+1

and you said it right in the next post. Dude is getting more attention NOW than he ever did as an active player. Enjoy your moment of relevance....I would have truly respected his act had it come during his prime. Doing it now during the twilight of your NBA career when you don't even belong to a team. As brave as his act was, it has a cowardly aspect too.

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

ChuckBuck wrote:

dk7th wrote:

DurzoBlint wrote:

Nalod wrote:

jrodmc wrote:I've now heard that Jason Collins is the next Jackie Robinson.

Seriously? Does that bother anyone?

Making a sacrifice for the embetterment of others who will follow.

He is the "Gay" Jackie Robinson. Jackie is a hero to the black community. Maybe Jayson is also.

We have all seen when some players get "squeezed" out on the court and what it can do to a career. No imagine because a man is gay he loses his endorsements and the trust of his team because of "ignorance". That is why no major athlete in a major league has come out. Like SupremeCommander wrote is true and while it shoudl nto be a big deal, it is!

Jackie was a hero but he also profited from being the first. He was not killed. He put himself in front of uglyness and was a Pioneer. Collins is a Pioneer as well. Jackie was no superstar player, others that came after him were.

Collins paved the way for another and at some point that player will be as good as the others and will do more.

Bottom line is we are far more comfortable in our 2013 integreated society than we were in the 1940's. People were uncomfortable with being around Black people for many ignorant reasons.

Not all Gay men want to be with all men. Just like a hetero wants to be with all women.

Not even close to Jackie Robinson. The comparison is likely disrespectful to Mr. Robinson's descendants.

both men were/are in a position to break down barriers based on deep-seated prejudices. robinson as a black man was trying to gain acceptance in a white-dominated society that feared integration. collins as a gay man is trying to do the same thing with a nation of all colors that clearly harbors the same fears and prejudices.

it's honoring jackie robinson's legacy and his family and descendant's are surely admiring jason collins's courage.

Nobody's trying to kill Jason Collins now...last I check there wasn't Gay only bathrooms, water fountains, restaurant sections or buses.

Bad comparison.

it's a civil rights comparison no matter what color or sexual persuasion you are. so in this sense it is apples to apples.

both men were/are going up against the prejudices of their day. were it not for jackie robinson and ms. parks i doubt the civil rights movement even takes shape. so in a sense the relative tolerance that collins may well enjoy as a gay man right now is due in major part to the civil rights movement that his forebears catalysed.

as to a faulty comparison, yours is faulty: gays can hide their gayness much better than blacks can hide their blackness. so your comparison is apples to oranges.

is there any doubt that the hatred of blacks was far more virulent and pervasive then? gay rights are still civil rights... right?

Nobody is trying kill gay people or Jason Collins in 2013. You can get a same sex marriage fairly easily in several states. Britney Griner, probably the future best woman's basketball player in history, came out and not even a yawn came out.

His coming out isn't even a minor inconvenience, it might be the best career move he ever made.

Jackie Robinson could've easily been killed day or night, at home, at the stadium.

Rickey was dead-on about the racism. As Sports Illustrated's Bill Nack wrote: "Robinson was the target of racial epithets and flying cleats, of hate letters and death threats, of pitchers throwing at his head and legs, and catchers spitting on his shoes."

Jason Collins has not faced anything close to what Jackie Robinson had to endure. Maybe a few decades ago it'd be different.

Sorry dk7th, apples and bananas comparison.

there is difference in "kind" and difference of "degree."

the difference you point to is a difference in degree, ie that of violence.

but i am saying there is no difference in kind.

both are civil rights issues.

apples to apples.

How is this a civil rights issue though? There are plenty of gay athletes in every sport, even team sports. You go to entertainment and even government and there are plenty of openly gay politicians.

How is Jason Collins breaking some sort of barrier if that barrier has been destroyed long ago?

This isn't some monumental historic moment in civil rights. It's just a personal revelation/breakthrough.

i should not have to explain how gay rights are a subset of civil rights, should i? the burden is on you and others to explain how gay rights are not civil rights.

but if i must... there have always been gay men and women in civilisation. yes or no? there is biological evidence (notice i did not say "proof") that around 8% of the population is born as homosexual.

this makes homosexuals a decided minority in every society to which they belong.

so guess what:

civil rights are about empowering and enfranchising minorities.

Answer me this. Whose civil rights are being violated?

Certainly not Jason Collins, he actually benefits greatly from this attention.

the timing is such that, as a mediocre player at the end of his career, he felt it was a safe time to come out as a gay male.

why did he wait? if there was no issue for the prior 14 seasons then he could have shared this information if he wanted to. but there is an issue, and there is likely fear attached: fear of being discriminated against, fear of ostracism, fear of not being hired to do a job.

if you live in fear of being discriminated against there may well be a factual basis for that fear.

the locker room is simply the last outpost other than the barracks where sexual identity can be a touchy subject, no pun intended. in my opinion it is healthy for every person to accept his or her sexuality for what it is, and that includes whatever "homoerotic" elements he or she may experience. notice i did not use the term "homosexual." it's fear of those feelings that most dudes project onto the outside world even if they know they prefer *****.

ironic, then, that jason collins may have lived in fear based on others fear of who he is.

Anyone tell Jackie it was sin to be black? Used to be you could lock up a man on sodomy charges aimed at Homosextual men.

Jackie Robinson volunteered to be a pioneer and the black community made him a hero. White america sees him as a someone of great courage and someone they are very proud of. Jackie Paved the way for others. Without him there would not be a Willie Mays or Hank Aaron!

I think the Black community does not embrace alternative lifestyles as perhaps as white america does.

Collins volunteered to come out when his career is in its twilight and perhaps pave the way for others to live openly.

I certanly don't know what its like to be a black man in the time of Jackie Robinson and perhaps most of us don't know what its like to be a closet gay black man.

Collins is a pioneer and maybe a hero to his community, not to ours.