tkf wrote:

OGkush121 wrote:

tkf wrote:

OGkush121 wrote:

3G4G wrote:When I see the Nuggets continue their torrid pace of winning without the STAR..... when they've had 2 of our former players plagued with injuries throughout their tenure there, and our team maintain a winning record without our STAR, and our STAR not put together sustainable performances in the playoffs leading to 1st round exits, I'm just not impressed with our STAR.

Hell Gallo had a tendency to get hot here.... at season's end, Lody Freakin Do!

CHIP or BUST Melo!

so any player that has failed to drive his team towards the NBA title is supposed to be a bust?

and Denver might have a good record, but they won't go far...2nd round AT BEST....Knicks actualy have a chance of making it to the Finals, or atleast ECF.

now tell me, how do you calculate this.. based on what? I would love to hear how you come to this conclusion.. Now if you are going to say, this is just homer talk.. fine... but how can you pass this off seriously?

Well first of all, apart from the recent Pistons team which was an incredibile defensive juggernaut no team has won a title without a genuine leader/star/go to guy.
You have great teams, which will win a lot of games, but there's a reason why superstars are so sought after, they give you an edge whichever way you look at it.
Not to mention I think our record (along with the Bulls most notably) isn't a true reflection of the team's strength since we've been ravaged by injuries and we're bound to get most of the guys back in time for the playoffs.
I'm not even remotely saying "we'll make the Finals" or that Denver has NO shot what-so-ever, I just struggle to think of a reason why anyone would give the Nuggets a better (or the same) chance.

The playoffs are a different game than the regular season, if you don't have anyone on your team willing to stand out, take charge and lead the team by example than you're not getting far unless you're by far the best defensive team (and you still need outstanding performances from certain players). Last time I checked the Nuggets can't check any of these 2 boxes, we can check off one.

That and the fact that we're in a good position to get past Boston (and have a good season series record against them), and presumably Indiana (it's going to be a tough one, but I wouldn't say we're outmatched or anything), and that we're one of (if not the) toughest matchup for the Heat, I think the Knicks have a legitimate chance.

Denver on the other hand as much sympathy as I have for them I just can't see them winning a 7game series against neither OKC nor the Spurs (I'm not even going to imagine a scenario in which they avoid both and come out on top of the Western conference or think about other teams' matchups)

well here is the flaw in your argument.. you use the pistons and then kind of dismiss them.. maybe there hasn't been many because many teams have not followed that model.. denver has to some degree and they are having success... same with the grizzlies..

next, we don't have a a genuine leader,or star....go to guy? really? JR smith has been a better go to guy than carmelo it seems.. why does this go to guy thing seem to weigh so heavily in your discussion. good teams win, they have a go to mentality as a team.... Was Duncan really a go to guy on the spurs, or was it a bit of parker, manu, one year horry, speedy claxton, steve kerr, all of them have made huge plays, winning plays for that team, in their title years..

The playoffs are a different game than the regular season, if you don't have anyone on your team willing to stand out, take charge and lead the team by example than you're not getting far unless you're by far the best defensive team (and you still need outstanding performances from certain players). Last time I checked the Nuggets can't check any of these 2 boxes, we can check off one.

yes, and carmelo has failed miserably there.... Denver is near the top of the league in scoring, points in the paint, points off turnovers... last time I checked, that wins in regular season and in postseason...

That and the fact that we're in a good position to get past Boston (and have a good season series record against them), and presumably Indiana (it's going to be a tough one, but I wouldn't say we're outmatched or anything), and that we're one of (if not the) toughest matchup for the Heat, I think the Knicks have a legitimate chance.

honestly, you haven't provided anything material here.. just hoping and wishing, and if that is what you want to do.. fine, but you can't say with a straight face that the knicks have a chance at the finals, and Denver who had a better record in a tougher conference doesn't because they don't have a "go to guy" or because the knicks had injuries.. I mean so did denver.. not a good excuse man..

Both denver and the knicks have worthy first round opponents.. the warriors are good and dangerous... the celts are still a savvy bunch and pierce has a history of killing the knicks.. Not sure how you can draw up any kind of real argument that supports the knicks having a better chance than the nuggets do, surviving the first round... honestly....

Both teams can lose in the first round.. the difference is.. Denver has a window that is wide open.. the knicks don't.... so enjoy the ride... as a fan you should, but at least be realistic... and fair..

1) Where's the flaw in me mentioning the Pistons? I used them to make a point (you have to pretty much be the best defensive team to win if you don't have people who can score for you in bunches), and the Nuggets are no defensive juggernaut, nor do they have players that can lift the team by scoring 30+ points on a regular basis).

2) I don't know for how much longer I can continue debating with you when you so blatantly despise Melo....seriously you can hate him but still admit he's our best player and the one we rely on most to win us games, regardless of how valuable JR has been.

And the reason this "go-to guy" weighs so heavily on my discussion is really simple and has been pointed out before more than once....take a look at NBA championship winning teams and tell me how many of them had a leader/star you could point to that led the team to the title and how many of them just had a "solid team" with basicaly no standouts (apart from the recent Pistons team ofcourse).
And don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying Melo does it all, or should do it all, that's why it's a team sport, and he won't be our best player every single game, but he IS the Knicks leader and he will take charge 9 times out of 10 and will be the most influental player whichever way you look at it.
And yeah Duncan didn't have to do it all because he had sufficient help, but to say he's been anything other than colossal for the Spurs is an understatement.

3) This is really your choice of focus....you choose to focus on several 1st round exits (and let's not kid ourselves by saying he had a terrific team around him), I choose to focus on the fact that he made it to the WCF and has never missed the playoffs. Now he has a better team (granted it could be much better if we were healthy) and he himself has grown and matured into an obviously better and more complete player than he ever was at Denver. So excuse me for being optimistic about our chances.

4) and your material is supposed to convince me otherwise? Look, I have nothing against Denver, I like that franchise and generaly want to see it do well, but having a good regular season means nothing if you're outmatched and outgunned with next to no chance of winning in the playoffs.

5) sorry but the Nuggets had a way more healthy squad for the majority of the season, they've only gotten a couple of injuries towards the end of the season and even those didn't keep players (except for Gallinari) out for long, unlike the Knicks who have gone banged up throughout the season, so yeah I think I'm entitled to point out that the Knicks' record would've been better had we not been ravaged by injuries and subsequently the team would also be looked at from a bit of a different perspective.

6) Denver has a bright future, but I don't see how anyone can think the future isn't bright in New York...Melo's still young enough to build around for a number of years, the Knicks are one of the biggest and wealthies franchises, people actually want to play there again because Melo & co. finaly made them relevant again and once you have a star to build around the team can become better each year by adding pieces. If you ask me the future looks as bright as it ever has for New York looking at the past decade.

And I'm sorry if you feel that way, but just because you dissagree with my opinion it doesn't make it unrealistic or unfair, just meens we have different views.

At 4gms Melo MVP

18-6 No Amar'e No Shump....Melo=Kobe/Durant/Wade everyone else sans Lebron

Closes the season Leading Scorer No Amar'e, No Sheed, No Camby, No Kurt, Gimp Chandler, Gimp Kidd...

Why did we lose/get swept in the Playoffs....Melo lover responses are..."Tip You Hat Off To Melo He Gave It His All ON HIS WAY TO SHOOTING 42 PACENT BUT WE PLAYED THE HEAT, WHAT COULD YOU EXPECT KIDD DIDN'T CARRY HIS WEIGHT AND NOVAK WAS A STATUE!"

OGkush121 wrote:

tkf wrote:

OGkush121 wrote:

tkf wrote:

OGkush121 wrote:

3G4G wrote:When I see the Nuggets continue their torrid pace of winning without the STAR..... when they've had 2 of our former players plagued with injuries throughout their tenure there, and our team maintain a winning record without our STAR, and our STAR not put together sustainable performances in the playoffs leading to 1st round exits, I'm just not impressed with our STAR.

Hell Gallo had a tendency to get hot here.... at season's end, Lody Freakin Do!

CHIP or BUST Melo!

so any player that has failed to drive his team towards the NBA title is supposed to be a bust?

and Denver might have a good record, but they won't go far...2nd round AT BEST....Knicks actualy have a chance of making it to the Finals, or atleast ECF.

now tell me, how do you calculate this.. based on what? I would love to hear how you come to this conclusion.. Now if you are going to say, this is just homer talk.. fine... but how can you pass this off seriously?

Well first of all, apart from the recent Pistons team which was an incredibile defensive juggernaut no team has won a title without a genuine leader/star/go to guy.
You have great teams, which will win a lot of games, but there's a reason why superstars are so sought after, they give you an edge whichever way you look at it.
Not to mention I think our record (along with the Bulls most notably) isn't a true reflection of the team's strength since we've been ravaged by injuries and we're bound to get most of the guys back in time for the playoffs.
I'm not even remotely saying "we'll make the Finals" or that Denver has NO shot what-so-ever, I just struggle to think of a reason why anyone would give the Nuggets a better (or the same) chance.

The playoffs are a different game than the regular season, if you don't have anyone on your team willing to stand out, take charge and lead the team by example than you're not getting far unless you're by far the best defensive team (and you still need outstanding performances from certain players). Last time I checked the Nuggets can't check any of these 2 boxes, we can check off one.

That and the fact that we're in a good position to get past Boston (and have a good season series record against them), and presumably Indiana (it's going to be a tough one, but I wouldn't say we're outmatched or anything), and that we're one of (if not the) toughest matchup for the Heat, I think the Knicks have a legitimate chance.

Denver on the other hand as much sympathy as I have for them I just can't see them winning a 7game series against neither OKC nor the Spurs (I'm not even going to imagine a scenario in which they avoid both and come out on top of the Western conference or think about other teams' matchups)

well here is the flaw in your argument.. you use the pistons and then kind of dismiss them.. maybe there hasn't been many because many teams have not followed that model.. denver has to some degree and they are having success... same with the grizzlies..

next, we don't have a a genuine leader,or star....go to guy? really? JR smith has been a better go to guy than carmelo it seems.. why does this go to guy thing seem to weigh so heavily in your discussion. good teams win, they have a go to mentality as a team.... Was Duncan really a go to guy on the spurs, or was it a bit of parker, manu, one year horry, speedy claxton, steve kerr, all of them have made huge plays, winning plays for that team, in their title years..

The playoffs are a different game than the regular season, if you don't have anyone on your team willing to stand out, take charge and lead the team by example than you're not getting far unless you're by far the best defensive team (and you still need outstanding performances from certain players). Last time I checked the Nuggets can't check any of these 2 boxes, we can check off one.

yes, and carmelo has failed miserably there.... Denver is near the top of the league in scoring, points in the paint, points off turnovers... last time I checked, that wins in regular season and in postseason...

That and the fact that we're in a good position to get past Boston (and have a good season series record against them), and presumably Indiana (it's going to be a tough one, but I wouldn't say we're outmatched or anything), and that we're one of (if not the) toughest matchup for the Heat, I think the Knicks have a legitimate chance.

honestly, you haven't provided anything material here.. just hoping and wishing, and if that is what you want to do.. fine, but you can't say with a straight face that the knicks have a chance at the finals, and Denver who had a better record in a tougher conference doesn't because they don't have a "go to guy" or because the knicks had injuries.. I mean so did denver.. not a good excuse man..

Both denver and the knicks have worthy first round opponents.. the warriors are good and dangerous... the celts are still a savvy bunch and pierce has a history of killing the knicks.. Not sure how you can draw up any kind of real argument that supports the knicks having a better chance than the nuggets do, surviving the first round... honestly....

Both teams can lose in the first round.. the difference is.. Denver has a window that is wide open.. the knicks don't.... so enjoy the ride... as a fan you should, but at least be realistic... and fair..

1) Where's the flaw in me mentioning the Pistons? I used them to make a point (you have to pretty much be the best defensive team to win if you don't have people who can score for you in bunches), and the Nuggets are no defensive juggernaut, nor do they have players that can lift the team by scoring 30+ points on a regular basis).

2) I don't know for how much longer I can continue debating with you when you so blatantly despise Melo....seriously you can hate him but still admit he's our best player and the one we rely on most to win us games, regardless of how valuable JR has been.

And the reason this "go-to guy" weighs so heavily on my discussion is really simple and has been pointed out before more than once....take a look at NBA championship winning teams and tell me how many of them had a leader/star you could point to that led the team to the title and how many of them just had a "solid team" with basicaly no standouts (apart from the recent Pistons team ofcourse).
And don't get me wrong here, I'm not saying Melo does it all, or should do it all, that's why it's a team sport, and he won't be our best player every single game, but he IS the Knicks leader and he will take charge 9 times out of 10 and will be the most influental player whichever way you look at it.
And yeah Duncan didn't have to do it all because he had sufficient help, but to say he's been anything other than colossal for the Spurs is an understatement.

3) This is really your choice of focus....you choose to focus on several 1st round exits (and let's not kid ourselves by saying he had a terrific team around him), I choose to focus on the fact that he made it to the WCF and has never missed the playoffs. Now he has a better team (granted it could be much better if we were healthy) and he himself has grown and matured into an obviously better and more complete player than he ever was at Denver. So excuse me for being optimistic about our chances.

4) and your material is supposed to convince me otherwise? Look, I have nothing against Denver, I like that franchise and generaly want to see it do well, but having a good regular season means nothing if you're outmatched and outgunned with next to no chance of winning in the playoffs.

5) sorry but the Nuggets had a way more healthy squad for the majority of the season, they've only gotten a couple of injuries towards the end of the season and even those didn't keep players (except for Gallinari) out for long, unlike the Knicks who have gone banged up throughout the season, so yeah I think I'm entitled to point out that the Knicks' record would've been better had we not been ravaged by injuries and subsequently the team would also be looked at from a bit of a different perspective.

6) Denver has a bright future, but I don't see how anyone can think the future isn't bright in New York...Melo's still young enough to build around for a number of years, the Knicks are one of the biggest and wealthies franchises, people actually want to play there again because Melo & co. finaly made them relevant again and once you have a star to build around the team can become better each year by adding pieces. If you ask me the future looks as bright as it ever has for New York looking at the past decade.

And I'm sorry if you feel that way, but just because you dissagree with my opinion it doesn't make it unrealistic or unfair, just meens we have different views.

nah, me despising carmelo has nothing to do with that lack of argument you are presenting, so unless you just don't want to debate with me because I don't like that guy then so be it..

well here is something you need to consider about both the pistons and the nuggets... Nuggets are a team that creates a lot of turnovers and they get a lot of points off those turnovers, they are super athletic, and they can outrun most teams... you are now putting the prerequisite of being a defensive juggernaut if you don't have players that can score in bunches.. well I say that is a flaw.. Denver is near the top of the league in ppg.. so where are they struggling to score... I say your argument with Detroit is flawed because you are trying to put what they did in a small box and eliminate any team using a defined criteria that doesn't lend itself to any flexibility... In other words, maybe the nuggets are not the best defensive team, but they do create turnovers, block shots, and turn those into points.... you are trying every way you can to discredit them... yet you still give no evidence on how the knicks have a better chance than them, or any other team for that matter...

but I don't see how anyone can think the future isn't bright in New York...Melo's still young enough to build around for a number of years, the Knicks are one of the biggest and wealthies franchises, people actually want to play there again because Melo & co

really, you don't? we are the oldest team in the league.. no young talent, no picks...or not enough picks. This notion of continually trying to build around carmelo is mind boggling.. let me ask you.. if the knicks don't make it past the 2nd round... please tell me the upside of trying to build around this guy going into his 11th season?

And please enough with people wanting to play here because of melo and company.. just stop that.... again, who are these players? with the exception of old guys trying to get a few more dollars out of our "rich" owner, I don't know of any significant players in their prime dying to come here.... come on man... that argument is so old and unproven... it it was about someone wanting to play for one of the wealthiest franchises , then I think that cat over in Brooklyn should be raking in the stars... I don't see that either... the nba has a salary cap.. cats usually follow the money..

And the reason this "go-to guy" weighs so heavily on my discussion is really simple and has been pointed out before more than once....take a look at NBA championship winning teams and tell me how many of them had a leader/star you could point to that led the team to the title and how many of them just had a "solid team" with basicaly no standouts (apart from the recent Pistons team ofcourse).

first of all, great teams win, not just great players.. you can have great players on those great teams...there are quite a few great players without a ring as well.. second, I can name a few elite that have won.. MJ, Bird, Magic, Hakeem, isiah, Duncan, Pierce, shaq, kobe and Garnett, lebron,wade, dirk... those are pretty much all of the rings the past 20+ years.. guess what.. we don't have a player close to any of those guys, and if you are going to argue boston, well they had a great team..

newsflash.. if you think the knicks are good and have a shot at the finals, well Denver was better than us this year... they are just not a "solid" team.... they are a hella good team my friend.. no matter what happens...

yellowboy90 wrote:

3G4G wrote:This is so mind boggling...

At 4gms Melo MVP

18-6 No Amar'e No Shump....Melo=Kobe/Durant/Wade everyone else sans Lebron

Closes the season Leading Scorer No Amar'e, No Sheed, No Camby, No Kurt, Gimp Chandler, Gimp Kidd...

Why did we lose/get swept in the Playoffs....Melo lover responses are..."Tip You Hat Off To Melo He Gave It His All ON HIS WAY TO SHOOTING 42 PACENT BUT WE PLAYED THE HEAT, WHAT COULD YOU EXPECT KIDD DIDN'T CARRY HIS WEIGHT AND NOVAK WAS A STATUE!"

But 42 percent is elite according to you so.... Someone besides you should make that point don't you think?

42 PACENT in the Playoffs is not ELITE. That's the point in regular season he's a proven Scorer...ELITE Scorer, not at all times efficient and this is what gets exposed in the playoffs when you're playing ELITE Teams game after game after game.

3G4G wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

3G4G wrote:

TeamBall wrote:

tkf wrote:

3G4G wrote:When I see the Nuggets continue their torrid pace of winning without the STAR..... when they've had 2 of our former players plagued with injuries throughout their tenure there, and our team maintain a winning record without our STAR, and our STAR not put together sustainable performances in the playoffs leading to 1st round exits, I'm just not impressed with our STAR.

Hell Gallo had a tendency to get hot here.... at season's end, Lody Freakin Do!

CHIP or BUST Melo!

+100

So you guys never got excited when Gallinari went on any sort of streak? It was just as unimpressive as Melo's right?

Actually I didn't think too much of it at the time because back then the heated discussions were Gallo vs Chandler. Chandler went down with season injury one who of which I vouched as talented, if not more so than Gallo and thought his hot stretch should have been kept in perspective. But it was a hot stretch nonetheless.

People are doing the same with Melo's stretch too though. No ones saying he surpassed Lebron with his latest streak.

They're equating it to ECF appearance based on what? He got hot last yr and we could barely win a game against the Heat? They had no Bosh when we played them? Why didn't the hot streak lead to a 4-2 or 4-3 series against them?

Bosh played the whole series against the Knicks, so that's that.

As far as the topic goes...

Personally I have enjoyed the season, and the results are higher than expected.

With that said, I dont see a team in the East that is better than the Knicks outside of Miami.

so if the team reach the ECF which is waht i would consider success, then I'm pleased.

Melo will have alot to do with that happening if it does.

3G4G wrote:When I see the Nuggets continue their torrid pace of winning without the STAR..... when they've had 2 of our former players plagued with injuries throughout their tenure there, and our team maintain a winning record without our STAR, and our STAR not put together sustainable performances in the playoffs leading to 1st round exits, I'm just not impressed with our STAR.

Hell Gallo had a tendency to get hot here.... at season's end, Lody Freakin Do!

CHIP or BUST Melo!

Papabear Says

Oh I just love your post. [b]Now go root for the Nuggets and I'll just stick with beloved Knicks.

"Could be," Woodson said Thursday after practice when asked if Copeland might start in place of an ailing Prigioni. "The way he's played, could be."

nothin but a C Thing baby

jrodmc wrote:When I see Denver winning at .600% .700 pace...

fixed

3G4G wrote:

yellowboy90 wrote:

3G4G wrote:This is so mind boggling...

At 4gms Melo MVP

18-6 No Amar'e No Shump....Melo=Kobe/Durant/Wade everyone else sans Lebron

Closes the season Leading Scorer No Amar'e, No Sheed, No Camby, No Kurt, Gimp Chandler, Gimp Kidd...

Why did we lose/get swept in the Playoffs....Melo lover responses are..."Tip You Hat Off To Melo He Gave It His All ON HIS WAY TO SHOOTING 42 PACENT BUT WE PLAYED THE HEAT, WHAT COULD YOU EXPECT KIDD DIDN'T CARRY HIS WEIGHT AND NOVAK WAS A STATUE!"

But 42 percent is elite according to you so.... Someone besides you should make that point don't you think?

42 PACENT in the Playoffs is not ELITE. That's the point in regular season he's a proven Scorer...ELITE Scorer, not at all times efficient and this is what gets exposed in the playoffs when you're playing ELITE Teams game after game after game.

42percent when most of your team is injured and you are the only threat on the floor, being double and triple teamed because HE HAD NO HELP.....Damn good if you ask me.